This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.

Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>
>Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites

How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
> >
> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
> >
> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?

I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>> >
>> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>> >
>> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
>> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
>
>I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...

Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?

The max temp records are usually set by constant-logging RTD sensors
at the edges of airport runways with jets screaming nearby. There
weren't so many cases like that in the 1930's.

On 7/5/2023 11:12 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>>>>
>>>> Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
>>> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
>>
>> I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...
>
> Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?
>
> The max temp records are usually set by constant-logging RTD sensors
> at the edges of airport runways with jets screaming nearby. There
> weren't so many cases like that in the 1930's.
>

Historical temperatures are inferred from ice core samples, in the ratio
of heavy to light oxygen isotopes.

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:13:08 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
> >> >
> >> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
> >> >
> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
> >> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
> >
> >I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...
> Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?
>
> The max temp records are usually set by constant-logging RTD sensors
> at the edges of airport runways with jets screaming nearby. There
> weren't so many cases like that in the 1930's.

It's pretty cold there right now:

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/antarctica/south-pole/historic

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:13:08?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>> >> >
>> >> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
>> >> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
>> >
>> >I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...
>> Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?
>>
>> The max temp records are usually set by constant-logging RTD sensors
>> at the edges of airport runways with jets screaming nearby. There
>> weren't so many cases like that in the 1930's.
>
>
>It's pretty cold there right now:
>
>https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/antarctica/south-pole/historic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amundsen%E2%80%93Scott_South_Pole_Station

"Before November 1956, there was no permanent artificial structure at
the pole, and practically no human presence in the interior of
Antarctica. The few scientific stations in Antarctica were near its
coast."

No satellites in the 1930s either.

Entire hurricanes were missed before marine radio was invented.

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 12:16:01 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:13:08?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
> >> >> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
> >> >
> >> >I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...
> >> Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?
> >>
> >> The max temp records are usually set by constant-logging RTD sensors
> >> at the edges of airport runways with jets screaming nearby. There
> >> weren't so many cases like that in the 1930's.
> >
> >
> >It's pretty cold there right now:
> >
> >https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/antarctica/south-pole/historic
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amundsen%E2%80%93Scott_South_Pole_Station
>
>
> "Before November 1956, there was no permanent artificial structure at
> the pole, and practically no human presence in the interior of
> Antarctica. The few scientific stations in Antarctica were near its
> coast."
>
> No satellites in the 1930s either.
>
> Entire hurricanes were missed before marine radio was invented.

That's the old fallback on the tree falling in the forest not making a sound if no one is around to hear it.

Of course everything mankind does is dwarfed by the enormous power of nature. The difference seems to be nature is self-balancing whereas man's contribution has a definite bias, and that bias is integrated, and therefore accumulates.

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 11:10:23 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 12:16:01?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:13:08?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
>> >> >> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
>> >> >
>> >> >I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...
>> >> Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?
>> >>
>> >> The max temp records are usually set by constant-logging RTD sensors
>> >> at the edges of airport runways with jets screaming nearby. There
>> >> weren't so many cases like that in the 1930's.
>> >
>> >
>> >It's pretty cold there right now:
>> >
>> >https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/antarctica/south-pole/historic
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amundsen%E2%80%93Scott_South_Pole_Station
>>
>>
>> "Before November 1956, there was no permanent artificial structure at
>> the pole, and practically no human presence in the interior of
>> Antarctica. The few scientific stations in Antarctica were near its
>> coast."
>>
>> No satellites in the 1930s either.
>>
>> Entire hurricanes were missed before marine radio was invented.
>
>That's the old fallback on the tree falling in the forest not making a sound if no one is around to hear it.

Exactly. It's easier to set records when the entire planet is paved
over with millions of sensors that didn't exist before satellites and
the internet, and sensors weren't at airports or the centers of giant
cities. And before the measurements were "adjusted."

Always question your instrumentation.

>
>Of course everything mankind does is dwarfed by the enormous power of nature. The difference seems to be nature is self-balancing whereas man's contribution has a definite bias, and that bias is integrated, and therefore accumulates.

Well, get used to it. Billions of people want themselves and their
kids to have what we have, and they deserve it. A little inconvenience
to us means a lot less misery in poor countries.

Donate!

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 12:27:04 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 11:10:23 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 12:16:01?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:13:08?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again..
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
> >> >> >> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...
> >> >> Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?

It's not done only with local thermometers, you can infer a temperature from
other weather-pattern data. Similarly, one can infer a temperature from
the resistance of a platinum resistor...

> Exactly. It's easier to set records when the entire planet is paved
> over with millions of sensors that didn't exist before satellites and
> the internet, and sensors weren't at airports or the centers of giant
> cities. And before the measurements were "adjusted."

Do you mean calibrated?

> Always question your instrumentation.

Says the guy who hasn't ever participated in a serious
questioning of any kind of science. And, who doesn't
disciminate calibrated from "adjusted".

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 12:27:04?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 11:10:23 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 12:16:01?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:13:08?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:40:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
>> >> >> >> How does that compare to the satellite measurements from 1932?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I'm pretty sure they knew Antarctica was about -50oF this time of year back then...
>> >> >> Are you? How many weather station were there in Antartica in 1932?
>
>It's not done only with local thermometers, you can infer a temperature from
>other weather-pattern data. Similarly, one can infer a temperature from
>the resistance of a platinum resistor...
>
>> Exactly. It's easier to set records when the entire planet is paved
>> over with millions of sensors that didn't exist before satellites and
>> the internet, and sensors weren't at airports or the centers of giant
>> cities. And before the measurements were "adjusted."
>
>Do you mean calibrated?
>
>> Always question your instrumentation.
>
>Says the guy who hasn't ever participated in a serious
>questioning of any kind of science. And, who doesn't
>disciminate calibrated from "adjusted".

This is an electronic design forum. Post something you have designed.

I do a lot of thermal measurements, and know how tricky they can be.

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 11:36:31 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

>Historical temperatures are inferred from ice core samples, in the ratio
>of heavy to light oxygen isotopes.

How reliable are the timing obtained from these ice cores ?

In areas in which summer surface temperatures (at least in some years)
were above zero, some surface layers will melt, destroying the history
of one or more winters. At least in Greenland, large ice lakes are
formed during the summer, eating more and more of the surface ice.

Many of these ice lakes are emptied through cravasses before next
winter, taking away the history of ice of that area of years, decades
or centuries. Since new layers are formed above the bottom of the
former ice lake the next winter, how do we detect how many years of
air core data has been lost in between ?

How do we know that the ice core was _not_ taken through an era that
had been part of an ancient ice lake ?

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:28:42 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 11:36:31 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
> >Historical temperatures are inferred from ice core samples, in the ratio
> >of heavy to light oxygen isotopes.
> How reliable are the timing obtained from these ice cores ?
>
> In areas in which summer surface temperatures (at least in some years)
> were above zero, some surface layers will melt, destroying the history
> of one or more winters. At least in Greenland, large ice lakes are
> formed during the summer, eating more and more of the surface ice.
....
> How do we know that the ice core was _not_ taken through an era that
> had been part of an ancient ice lake ?

On examining one ice core, you can't tell. On trying various sites, a
discrepancy would show up (that's a call for "needs more research",
a familiar refrain in science). But, you can certainly infer from
topography where such lakes are unlikely, when selecting a site for collecting
your data. It seems unlikely that researchers are missing a substantial
fraction of the hundreds of thousands of years recorded in their samples.

It's improbable, too, that funding for cross-checking a dozen or so times can be
supported; three might be a prudent number.

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>
>Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites

More nonsense:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/10/weather/northeast-storms-flooding-excessive-rainfall/index.html

They don't have rainfall records for 1000 years.

On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 11:48:25 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
> >
> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
> >
> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
> More nonsense:
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/10/weather/northeast-storms-flooding-excessive-rainfall/index.html
>
> They don't have rainfall records for 1000 years.

UN recently issued report concluding Earth is heading for uninhabitability. Looks like the treeless monkeys won't even make it to the end of this century.

On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 08:54:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 11:48:25?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >This will not be going away. And it's not the new normal because it's going to get significantly worse, there will never be a normal again.
>> >
>> >Nearly 50oF in the middle of Antarctica winter...
>> >
>> >https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/monday-was-hottest-day-for-global-average-temperature-on-record-as-climate-crisis-bites
>> More nonsense:
>>
>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/10/weather/northeast-storms-flooding-excessive-rainfall/index.html
>>
>> They don't have rainfall records for 1000 years.
>
>UN recently issued report concluding Earth is heading for uninhabitability. Looks like the treeless monkeys won't even make it to the end of this century.

You have posted at least a hundred warnings about the imminent demise
of humanity. So why are we still here, consuming coffee and pastries?

On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 9:08:24 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 08:54:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >UN recently issued report concluding Earth is heading for uninhabitability. Looks like the treeless monkeys won't even make it to the end of this century.

> You have posted at least a hundred warnings about the imminent demise
> of humanity. So why are we still here, consuming coffee and pastries?

There's no 'imminent demise of humanity' in the postings of the accused.
That phrase was just made up by John Larkin, as a prop that supports
his straw man argument. Has he done that a hundred times, yet?