I'm buying tires at SimpleTire and the default sort is "recommended" but
other options are "highest to lowest" and "lowest to highest" choices.

It got me wondering...
Who sorts a set of 4 tires by price high to low? Or by brand?

I'm 75 and have replaced my tires for decades where my current philosophy is
that (a) tires are tires, and (if you're replacing all four as a set), then
you (b) you buy that set by the spec and finally, (c), if the specs are
almost or exactly the same, then you decide by price (lower is better).

Hence I sort tires online by spec first, not by price nor by brand.
1. It has to fit (for example, P225/75R15 if buying for all four wheels)
2. It has to be right (for example, All-Season, load range 102S or better)
3. It has to be good (for example, TRACTION=AA TREADWEAR=500 TEMPERATURE=A)

I know people who buy by warranty, which means that what they care about
isn't the price performance qualities of the tire itself since warranty is
an artificial marketing component of the tire sale.

Others will tell you that they buy the most well advertised brand (for
example, Michelin or GoodYear) but they usually don't even know WHERE their
tires are built (Indonesia for example) before that brand is stamped on the
tires (the point being that multiple brands are the same exact tire in many
cases).

And yet, others buy by price, but from highest to lowest, and they're often
the same people claiming that "you get what you pay for" which is never
correct (you get what others set the price at which is almost always a
function of brand marketing and almost never of quality in tires).

In the end, the price is a function of the basics:
A. The cost of the tire (for example, $100/tire)
B. The cost of sales tax (for example 10%)
C. The cost of shipping (for example $15/tire)
D. The cost of mounting/balancing/valves/disposal (for example $20/wheel)

While any online tire seller (Tire Rack, Simple Tire, Carid, etc.) will ship
directly to the tire mounting shop, I mount/balance my own so I save on a
few things (e.g., SimpleTire doesn't charge for shipping and dynamic balance
DIY tests are free, or if you don't trust your own dynamic balance tests, I
think Costco will check the dynamic balance for $5/tire last I asked and
they will dispose of old tires for $1/tire plus local sales tax).

Anyway, I was just shopping for tires and wondered why the default sort
order is what it is, given the default should be lowest-to-highest within
spec, in my humble opinion.

What's your humble opinion?
How do YOU choose a set of new tires when you order them online?

(Maybe I can learn something from your experience and acumen.)
--
If you're replacing fewer than 4/5 tires, then of course matching the tires
becomes an issue that you don't have when you are replacing the entire set.

On 12/9/21 4:32 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> I'm buying tires at SimpleTire and the default sort is "recommended" but
> other options are "highest to lowest" and "lowest to highest" choices.
>
> It got me wondering...
> Who sorts a set of 4 tires by price high to low? Or by brand?
>
> I'm 75 and have replaced my tires for decades where my current philosophy is
> that (a) tires are tires, and (if you're replacing all four as a set), then
> you (b) you buy that set by the spec and finally, (c), if the specs are
> almost or exactly the same, then you decide by price (lower is better).
>
> Hence I sort tires online by spec first, not by price nor by brand.
> 1. It has to fit (for example, P225/75R15 if buying for all four wheels)
> 2. It has to be right (for example, All-Season, load range 102S or better)
> 3. It has to be good (for example, TRACTION=AA TREADWEAR=500 TEMPERATURE=A)
>
> I know people who buy by warranty, which means that what they care about
> isn't the price performance qualities of the tire itself since warranty is
> an artificial marketing component of the tire sale.
>
> Others will tell you that they buy the most well advertised brand (for
> example, Michelin or GoodYear) but they usually don't even know WHERE their
> tires are built (Indonesia for example) before that brand is stamped on the
> tires (the point being that multiple brands are the same exact tire in many
> cases).
>
> And yet, others buy by price, but from highest to lowest, and they're often
> the same people claiming that "you get what you pay for" which is never
> correct (you get what others set the price at which is almost always a
> function of brand marketing and almost never of quality in tires).
>
> In the end, the price is a function of the basics:
> A. The cost of the tire (for example, $100/tire)
> B. The cost of sales tax (for example 10%)
> C. The cost of shipping (for example $15/tire)
> D. The cost of mounting/balancing/valves/disposal (for example $20/wheel)
>
> While any online tire seller (Tire Rack, Simple Tire, Carid, etc.) will ship
> directly to the tire mounting shop, I mount/balance my own so I save on a
> few things (e.g., SimpleTire doesn't charge for shipping and dynamic balance
> DIY tests are free, or if you don't trust your own dynamic balance tests, I
> think Costco will check the dynamic balance for $5/tire last I asked and
> they will dispose of old tires for $1/tire plus local sales tax).
>
> Anyway, I was just shopping for tires and wondered why the default sort
> order is what it is, given the default should be lowest-to-highest within
> spec, in my humble opinion.
>
> What's your humble opinion?
> How do YOU choose a set of new tires when you order them online?
>
> (Maybe I can learn something from your experience and acumen.)
>
For the first tire replacement on a purchased-new vehicle, I usually
install the same ones that the manufacturer supplied. Of course that
assumes I liked how they handled and gave reasonable tread life.

--
If a man says he will fix it, he will. There’s no need to remind him
every three months.

On 12/9/2021 6:44 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 12/9/21 4:32 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> I'm buying tires at SimpleTire and the default sort is "recommended" but
>> other options are "highest to lowest" and "lowest to highest" choices.
>>
>> It got me wondering...
>> Who sorts a set of 4 tires by price high to low? Or by brand?
>>
>> I'm 75 and have replaced my tires for decades where my current
>> philosophy is
>> that (a) tires are tires, and (if you're replacing all four as a set),
>> then
>> you (b) you buy that set by the spec and finally, (c), if the specs are
>> almost or exactly the same, then you decide by price (lower is better).
>>
>> Hence I sort tires online by spec first, not by price nor by brand.
>> 1. It has to fit (for example, P225/75R15 if buying for all four wheels)
>> 2. It has to be right (for example, All-Season, load range 102S or
>> better)
>> 3. It has to be good (for example, TRACTION=AA TREADWEAR=500
>> TEMPERATURE=A)
>>
>> I know people who buy by warranty, which means that what they care about
>> isn't the price performance qualities of the tire itself since
>> warranty is
>> an artificial marketing component of the tire sale.
>>
>> Others will tell you that they buy the most well advertised brand (for
>> example, Michelin or GoodYear) but they usually don't even know WHERE
>> their
>> tires are built (Indonesia for example) before that brand is stamped
>> on the
>> tires (the point being that multiple brands are the same exact tire in
>> many
>> cases).
>>
>> And yet, others buy by price, but from highest to lowest, and they're
>> often
>> the same people claiming that "you get what you pay for" which is never
>> correct (you get what others set the price at which is almost always a
>> function of brand marketing and almost never of quality in tires).
>>
>> In the end, the price is a function of the basics:
>> A. The cost of the tire (for example, $100/tire)
>> B. The cost of sales tax (for example 10%)
>> C. The cost of shipping (for example $15/tire)
>> D. The cost of mounting/balancing/valves/disposal (for example $20/wheel)
>>
>> While any online tire seller (Tire Rack, Simple Tire, Carid, etc.)
>> will ship
>> directly to the tire mounting shop, I mount/balance my own so I save on a
>> few things (e.g., SimpleTire doesn't charge for shipping and dynamic
>> balance
>> DIY tests are free, or if you don't trust your own dynamic balance
>> tests, I
>> think Costco will check the dynamic balance for $5/tire last I asked and
>> they will dispose of old tires for $1/tire plus local sales tax).
>>
>> Anyway, I was just shopping for tires and wondered why the default sort
>> order is what it is, given the default should be lowest-to-highest within
>> spec, in my humble opinion.
>>
>> What's your humble opinion?
>> How do YOU choose a set of new tires when you order them online?
>>
>> (Maybe I can learn something from your experience and acumen.)
>>
> For the first tire replacement on a purchased-new vehicle, I usually
> install the same ones that the manufacturer supplied. Of course that
> assumes I liked how they handled and gave reasonable tread life.
>

So far, I like Nokian tires.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 18:44:11 -0500, Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net> wrote:

>On 12/9/21 4:32 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> I'm buying tires at SimpleTire and the default sort is "recommended" but
>> other options are "highest to lowest" and "lowest to highest" choices.
>>
>> It got me wondering...
>> Who sorts a set of 4 tires by price high to low? Or by brand?
>>
>> I'm 75 and have replaced my tires for decades where my current philosophy is
>> that (a) tires are tires, and (if you're replacing all four as a set), then
>> you (b) you buy that set by the spec and finally, (c), if the specs are
>> almost or exactly the same, then you decide by price (lower is better).
>>
>> Hence I sort tires online by spec first, not by price nor by brand.
>> 1. It has to fit (for example, P225/75R15 if buying for all four wheels)
>> 2. It has to be right (for example, All-Season, load range 102S or better)
>> 3. It has to be good (for example, TRACTION=AA TREADWEAR=500 TEMPERATURE=A)
>>
>> I know people who buy by warranty, which means that what they care about
>> isn't the price performance qualities of the tire itself since warranty is
>> an artificial marketing component of the tire sale.
>>
>> Others will tell you that they buy the most well advertised brand (for
>> example, Michelin or GoodYear) but they usually don't even know WHERE their
>> tires are built (Indonesia for example) before that brand is stamped on the
>> tires (the point being that multiple brands are the same exact tire in many
>> cases).
>>
>> And yet, others buy by price, but from highest to lowest, and they're often
>> the same people claiming that "you get what you pay for" which is never
>> correct (you get what others set the price at which is almost always a
>> function of brand marketing and almost never of quality in tires).
>>
>> In the end, the price is a function of the basics:
>> A. The cost of the tire (for example, $100/tire)
>> B. The cost of sales tax (for example 10%)
>> C. The cost of shipping (for example $15/tire)
>> D. The cost of mounting/balancing/valves/disposal (for example $20/wheel)
>>
>> While any online tire seller (Tire Rack, Simple Tire, Carid, etc.) will ship
>> directly to the tire mounting shop, I mount/balance my own so I save on a
>> few things (e.g., SimpleTire doesn't charge for shipping and dynamic balance
>> DIY tests are free, or if you don't trust your own dynamic balance tests, I
>> think Costco will check the dynamic balance for $5/tire last I asked and
>> they will dispose of old tires for $1/tire plus local sales tax).
>>
>> Anyway, I was just shopping for tires and wondered why the default sort
>> order is what it is, given the default should be lowest-to-highest within
>> spec, in my humble opinion.
>>
>> What's your humble opinion?
>> How do YOU choose a set of new tires when you order them online?
>>
>> (Maybe I can learn something from your experience and acumen.)
>>
>For the first tire replacement on a purchased-new vehicle, I usually
>install the same ones that the manufacturer supplied. Of course that
>assumes I liked how they handled and gave reasonable tread life.

That makes sense. I look at Tirerack reviews for a reviewer driving the same car
who talks about ride, handling and tread life and sounds like he knows what he's talking
about. That only happened once, and it worked out fine.

On 2021-12-09, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> How do YOU choose a set of new tires when you order them online?

i don't.

support your local community by not buying them online. i've been using
Cooper tires purchased from the same locally owned family business for
the last 30 years. that kind of loyalty, when you walk into a business
and they treat you like part of the family, really pays off well when
you need something in a pinch.

what happens when you purchase tires online and find out one is
defective after the tires are mounted and driven on? defects happen,
nothing is perfect. yeah, good luck getting that straightened out.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

On 12/10/2021 10:48 AM, fos wrote:
> On 2021-12-09, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> How do YOU choose a set of new tires when you order them online?
>
> i don't.
>
> support your local community by not buying them online. i've been using
> Cooper tires purchased from the same locally owned family business for
> the last 30 years. that kind of loyalty, when you walk into a business
> and they treat you like part of the family, really pays off well when
> you need something in a pinch.
>
> what happens when you purchase tires online and find out one is
> defective after the tires are mounted and driven on? defects happen,
> nothing is perfect. yeah, good luck getting that straightened out.
>

The local shop where I buy is usually within $5 per tire of online
source prices.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On 12/9/2021 16:32, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> I'm buying tires at SimpleTire and the default sort is "recommended" but
> other options are "highest to lowest" and "lowest to highest" choices.
>
> It got me wondering...
> Who sorts a set of 4 tires by price high to low? Or by brand?
>
> I'm 75 and have replaced my tires for decades where my current philosophy is
> that (a) tires are tires, and (if you're replacing all four as a set), then
> you (b) you buy that set by the spec and finally, (c), if the specs are
> almost or exactly the same, then you decide by price (lower is better).

Depends on the car. I own a lot of cars. If a decent vehicle, I'll try
to not buy the cheapest brand. Most Walmart tires are not recommended.
I'd prefer to go to a local shop to get tires and keep the money in my
local economy.

If it's a cheap beater (or a truck with big/expensive tires), I buy used
tires on steep discount. My Geo Metro has a rare size 12" rim, and
those tires are very hard to find. I think I found them on eBay a
couple of years ago, and I took the only brand that I found, because you
take what you can get at that point.

On 12/10/21 9:02 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 12/9/2021 16:32, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> I).
>
> Depends on the car.  I own a lot of cars.  If a decent vehicle, I'll try
> to not buy the cheapest brand.  Most Walmart tires are not recommended.
>  I'd prefer to go to a local shop to get tires and keep the money in my
> local economy.
>

What's the problem with Walmart tires?

They sell many of the same brands other tire retailers do-- and since
they order them six or seven bazillion at a time, the tire manufacturers
give them a good price- which is why they can give you the same.

....And don't tell me that Michelin and Goodyear, etc., send Wally their
rejects and Walmart-only special models poorly made with cheap materials...

--
Karl Marx is a well-known historical figure...but no one ever mentions
his sister Onya who invented the Starter’s Pistol

On 12/11/2021 7:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 12/10/21 9:02 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 12/9/2021 16:32, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>> I).
>>
>> Depends on the car. I own a lot of cars. If a decent vehicle, I'll
>> try to not buy the cheapest brand. Most Walmart tires are not
>> recommended. I'd prefer to go to a local shop to get tires and keep
>> the money in my local economy.
>>
>
> What's the problem with Walmart tires?
>
> They sell many of the same brands other tire retailers do-- and since
> they order them six or seven bazillion at a time, the tire manufacturers
> give them a good price- which is why they can give you the same.

Don't people only go to Walmart for cheap stuff? I've never bought
their tires, but I've owned a couple cars where people bought Walmart
tires. They are usually not very good. I guess that depends on the brand.

> ...And don't tell me that Michelin and Goodyear, etc., send Wally their
> rejects and Walmart-only special models poorly made with cheap materials...

That isn't what I was going to say, but you bring up an excellent point.
Walmart cuts deals with name-brand manufacturers to get their products
cheaper. This is well known.

There was a documentary made about Snapper mowers that stood up to
Walmart, and said they wouldn't sell a cheaper version of their mower to
make a ton of money retailing them at Walmart stores.

Unfortunately, someone later bought the Snapper brand, and they
immediately caved into corporate pressure. You now find cheap Snapper
mowers at Walmart, that are not quality -- they only retain the old name.

--------------------

From an example article online:

"*Walmart is well known for demanding lower prices from manufacturers
each year. In order to meet low prices, manufacturers can use lower
quality components, use marginally failing devices, or remove some
features. In many cases, the SKUs at different stores are different."

Vic Smith wrote:
> I look at Tirerack reviews for a reviewer driving the same car

As you noticed, it's rare to have the same car, the same weather conditions,
the same driving style, the same driving use, etc., such that the boy racer
reviews are almost always worthless to me (rarely are they even applicable).

All you really have to compare is what's molded on the tire sidewall.
Take these three tires.

Tire Rack: $101.00 Kumho Solus TA11 Standard Touring All-Season
P225/75R15 102T UTQG 700AB

Simple Tire: $88.28 Eldorado Custom 428 A/S
P225/75R15 102S UTQG 440AB

Carid & TireEasy: $87.98 Nexen PRIZ AH5
P225/75R15 102S UTQG 460AA

All have the same load range (102 is 1874 pounds/tire) and all have the same
traction (A) rating.

The main difference appears to be in the temperature (aka speed).

The temperature rating of the Nexen is slightly better (both are rated S but
one tested at an A temperature while Eldorado is a lower temp at B) and yet
the speed rating of the Kumho is T even as the temperature (aka speed) is
rated at only a B. Such are the vagaries when the government specifies the
test versus when the tire manufacturer specifies the test, given they're
both a "speed" test (what kills tires, at speed, is flexing heat buildup).

That's all you have that is of any value in choosing between tires.
Everything else is just a guess (and even that is a guess in some ways).

On 12/12/21 12:03 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 12/11/2021 7:37, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 12/10/21 9:02 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 12/9/2021 16:32, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>>> I).
>>>
>>> Depends on the car.  I own a lot of cars.  If a decent vehicle, I'll
>>> try to not buy the cheapest brand.  Most Walmart tires are not
>>> recommended.  I'd prefer to go to a local shop to get tires and keep
>>> the money in my local economy.
>>>
>>
>> What's the problem with Walmart tires?
>>
>> They sell many of the same brands other tire retailers do-- and since
>> they order them six or seven bazillion at a time, the tire manufacturers
>> give them a good price- which is why they can give you the same.
>
> Don't people only go to Walmart for cheap stuff?  I've never bought
> their tires, but I've owned a couple cars where people bought Walmart
> tires.  They are usually not very good.  I guess that depends on the brand.
>
>> ...And don't tell me that Michelin and Goodyear, etc., send Wally their
>> rejects and Walmart-only special models poorly made with cheap
>> materials...
>
> That isn't what I was going to say, but you bring up an excellent point.
>  Walmart cuts deals with name-brand manufacturers to get their products
> cheaper.  This is well known.
>
> There was a documentary made about Snapper mowers that stood up to
> Walmart, and said they wouldn't sell a cheaper version of their mower to
> make a ton of money retailing them at Walmart stores.
>
> Unfortunately, someone later bought the Snapper brand, and they
> immediately caved into corporate pressure.  You now find cheap Snapper
> mowers at Walmart, that are not quality -- they only retain the old name.
>
> --------------------
>
> From an example article online:
>
> "*Walmart is well known for demanding lower prices from manufacturers
> each year. In order to meet low prices, manufacturers can use lower
> quality components, use marginally failing devices, or remove some
> features. In many cases, the SKUs at different stores are different."

Yeah, some owners aren't concerned about the image slide that occurs
from selling a cheap version of their brand. I'd think it would mostly
be done by investment/financial firms that buy a brand, milk it dry,
then flip it- not caring about the damage done to a household name
that's been around for 50-100 years.

What you said about Walmart squeezing vendors (as many other companies
do as well) is true. I used to regularly visit a client in Rogers,
Arkansas- flying into Fayetteville, AR which is just down the road from
Bentonville.

Half the guys on the plane were salesmen and account managers heading to
Walmart headquarters. Seatmate conversation frequently centered around
how they were getting beaten up and price-squeezed and thinking about
whether it was time to pull the plug.

--
Why is it that the politicians who want more government control over
your life are the same ones who want you to be disarmed?

On 12/12/2021 9:35, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 12/12/21 12:03 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> Walmart cuts deals with name-brand manufacturers to get their
>> products cheaper. This is well known.
>>
>> There was a documentary made about Snapper mowers that stood up to
>> Walmart, and said they wouldn't sell a cheaper version of their mower
>> to make a ton of money retailing them at Walmart stores.
>>
>> Unfortunately, someone later bought the Snapper brand, and they
>> immediately caved into corporate pressure. You now find cheap Snapper
>> mowers at Walmart, that are not quality -- they only retain the old name.
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> From an example article online:
>>
>> "*Walmart is well known for demanding lower prices from manufacturers
>> each year. In order to meet low prices, manufacturers can use lower
>> quality components, use marginally failing devices, or remove some
>> features. In many cases, the SKUs at different stores are different."
>
> Yeah, some owners aren't concerned about the image slide that occurs
> from selling a cheap version of their brand. I'd think it would mostly
> be done by investment/financial firms that buy a brand, milk it dry,
> then flip it- not caring about the damage done to a household name
> that's been around for 50-100 years.

I'm a sentimental person to boot, and it's quite unfortunate, but what
can you do? There aren't many brands that I buy for the name anymore.
I regularly buy old appliances and tools that were built to last second
hand. I no longer shop at Walmart either.

> What you said about Walmart squeezing vendors (as many other companies
> do as well) is true. I used to regularly visit a client in Rogers,
> Arkansas- flying into Fayetteville, AR which is just down the road from
> Bentonville.
>
> Half the guys on the plane were salesmen and account managers heading to
> Walmart headquarters. Seatmate conversation frequently centered around
> how they were getting beaten up and price-squeezed and thinking about
> whether it was time to pull the plug.

Michael Trew wrote:
> I'm a sentimental person to boot, and it's quite unfortunate, but what
> can you do? There aren't many brands that I buy for the name anymore.
> I regularly buy old appliances and tools that were built to last second
> hand. I no longer shop at Walmart either.

IMHO, they all sell about the same brand and make and model of tires.
1. Simple Tire 888-410-0604 https://simpletire.com
2. Carid 800-505-3274 https://www.carid.com
3. Tire Easy 855-978-6789 https://www.tires-easy.com
4. Tire Rack 888-541-1777 https://www.tirerack.com
5. Walmart https://www.walmart.com/cp/tires-accessories/1077064
6. Costco Tire Center https://tires.costco.com/

It seems basic tires are priced as a commodity at about the same price each.
$ 74.94 Nexen N Priz AH5 P225/75R15 102S WSW UTQG 460AA (walmart)
$ 87.98 Nexen N Priz AH5 P225/75R15 102S WSW UTQG 460AA (tires-easy)
$ 88.28 Eldorado Custom 428 A/S P225/75R15 102S BSW UTQG 440AB (simple)
$ 94.65 Hankook Kinergy ST H735 P225/75R15 102T BSW UTQG 680AA (tireseasy)
$ 97.99 Hankook Kinergy ST H735 P225/75R15 102T BSW UTQG 680AA (simple)
$ 97.00 Kumho Solus TA11 P225/75R15 102T BSW UTQG 700AB (tirerack)
$ 97.00 Kumho Solus TA11 P225/75R15 102T BSW UTQG 700AB (amazon)
$101.57 TOYO EXTENSA A/S II P225/75R15 102T BSW UTQG 620AB (carid)
$101.57 TOYO EXTENSA A/S II P225/75R15 102T BSW UTQG 620AB (tiresEasy)
$101.57 TOYO EXTENSA A/S II P225/75R15 102T BSW UTQG 620AB (walmart)

Probably racing or specialty tires have different pricing though.

On 2021-12-12, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

> There was a documentary made about Snapper mowers that stood up to
> Walmart, and said they wouldn't sell a cheaper version of their mower to
> make a ton of money retailing them at Walmart stores.

> Unfortunately, someone later bought the Snapper brand, and they
> immediately caved into corporate pressure. You now find cheap Snapper
> mowers at Walmart, that are not quality -- they only retain the old name.

Snapper was bought by Simplicity and Briggs and Stratton bought
Simplicity not long after that. I'm pretty sure it was Briggs and Stratton
that caved and put Snapper mowers on Walmart shelves.

i refuse to even purchase power equipment at big box stores such as Home
Depot and Lowes. That equipment suffers from the same thing as equipment
at Walmart, it's made cheaper.

riding mowers for example. they're all powered by the same engines,
Kohler, Briggs, Kawasaki, etc, and all have the same transmissions, Tuff
Torq, but none are of commercial quality. The sheet metal frames and
decks are made from is thinner, and the moving hardware is the same.
When you see Cub Cadet's, Deere's, Husqvarna's, etc at a box store, those
are cheaply made knock offs compared to the models sold at actual dealers.

you buy a riding mower at a box store, you're buying a 5-10 year throw
away machine. a few years ago i purchased a Simplicity riding mower from
a local farm supply. Briggs and Stratton commercial v-twin engine, heavy
duty Tuff Torq trans, cast aluminum deck, serviceable spindles with
grease fittings, steering components have grease fitting, heavy gage sheet
metal, minimal plastic. with proper maintenance i'll easily get 30 years
out of it. on the other hand, my next door neighbor buys box store riding
mowers and is on his third one in 25 years. his mowers are priced half of
what i paid sure, but i'm further ahead by buying a quality product that
will last 3 times or more as long up front.

back to tires, or anything auto related, at walmart. the tire shop i use
and the collision shop down the street from them both say they see vehicles
with loose wheels or damaged vehicles from improperly tightened lug nuts on
vehicles serviced by walmart several times a year. i can't vouch for
whether walmart has lower gradetires as i've never compared specs, but if i
did ever buy tires from there, i sure as hell would not have them
mounted and balanced there based on their crappy reputation alone. if
you ever do, check the lug nuts for proper torque.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

On 2021-12-10, Ken Olson <kolson@freedomnet.org> wrote:
> On 12/10/2021 10:48 AM, fos wrote:
>> On 2021-12-09, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> How do YOU choose a set of new tires when you order them online?
>> i don't.
>> support your local community by not buying them online. i've been using
>> Cooper tires purchased from the same locally owned family business for
>> the last 30 years. that kind of loyalty, when you walk into a business
>> and they treat you like part of the family, really pays off well when
>> you need something in a pinch.
>>
>> what happens when you purchase tires online and find out one is
>> defective after the tires are mounted and driven on? defects happen,
>> nothing is perfect. yeah, good luck getting that straightened out.

> The local shop where I buy is usually within $5 per tire of online
> source prices.

that's about what i came up with the one and only time i compared
prices.
--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

On 12/13/2021 9:02, fos wrote:
> On 2021-12-12, Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>
>> There was a documentary made about Snapper mowers that stood up to
>> Walmart, and said they wouldn't sell a cheaper version of their mower to
>> make a ton of money retailing them at Walmart stores.
>
>> Unfortunately, someone later bought the Snapper brand, and they
>> immediately caved into corporate pressure. You now find cheap Snapper
>> mowers at Walmart, that are not quality -- they only retain the old name.
>
> Snapper was bought by Simplicity and Briggs and Stratton bought
> Simplicity not long after that. I'm pretty sure it was Briggs and Stratton
> that caved and put Snapper mowers on Walmart shelves.
>
> i refuse to even purchase power equipment at big box stores such as Home
> Depot and Lowes. That equipment suffers from the same thing as equipment
> at Walmart, it's made cheaper.
>
> riding mowers for example.

Agreed, my father has been through a few cheap big box riding mowers in
past years. I have a 1975 Wheelhouse that keeps chugging along.

> back to tires, or anything auto related, at walmart. the tire shop i use
> and the collision shop down the street from them both say they see vehicles
> with loose wheels or damaged vehicles from improperly tightened lug nuts on
> vehicles serviced by walmart several times a year. i can't vouch for
> whether walmart has lower gradetires as i've never compared specs, but if i
> did ever buy tires from there, i sure as hell would not have them
> mounted and balanced there based on their crappy reputation alone. if
> you ever do, check the lug nuts for proper torque.

I tried to take an '83 F150 to Walmart to have a new valve stem put on.
Truck has a 3 on the tree. Not one of the guys working there knew how
to drive it up on the rack. They asked me to do it. Whatever, I'd
prefer that over them breaking the linkage or whatever.

On 2021-12-13, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
> On 12/13/2021 9:02, fos wrote:

>> i refuse to even purchase power equipment at big box stores such as Home
>> Depot and Lowes. That equipment suffers from the same thing as equipment
>> at Walmart, it's made cheaper.

>> riding mowers for example.

> Agreed, my father has been through a few cheap big box riding mowers in
> past years. I have a 1975 Wheelhouse that keeps chugging along.

i have a 1985 Ford snow blower. and just picked up a late 70's Sears
chipper shredder off craigslist that needed a carb rebuild and now runs
great. both still have many years left in them.

> I tried to take an '83 F150 to Walmart to have a new valve stem put on.
> Truck has a 3 on the tree. Not one of the guys working there knew how
> to drive it up on the rack. They asked me to do it. Whatever, I'd
> prefer that over them breaking the linkage or whatever.

the only way i'd ever have service done at a Walmart would be if i was
on the road far from home, and on a sunday when in many places it'd be
the only place open for business.

i do buy my motor oil, and dispose of the used oil there. last time i
took my 5 gallon container, which i want back, of used oil there it took
three techs to dump it in the storage tank. i wonder if it takes those
three guys to change a tire? on second thought, i don't want to know.
no. just no. run away. fast. lol.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

On 12/15/2021 8:14, fos wrote:
> On 2021-12-13, Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>> On 12/13/2021 9:02, fos wrote:
>
>>> i refuse to even purchase power equipment at big box stores such as Home
>>> Depot and Lowes. That equipment suffers from the same thing as equipment
>>> at Walmart, it's made cheaper.
>
>>> riding mowers for example.
>
>> Agreed, my father has been through a few cheap big box riding mowers in
>> past years. I have a 1975 Wheelhouse that keeps chugging along.
>
> i have a 1985 Ford snow blower. and just picked up a late 70's Sears
> chipper shredder off craigslist that needed a carb rebuild and now runs
> great. both still have many years left in them.

Yes, the old stuff just goes on and on. I have a 70's JcPenney brand
(Penncraft?) 1100 watt generator that I paid $40 for from Craigslist,
and it works well to keep the fridge, DSL modem, and a light on if the
power goes out.

I picked up a Gilson late 60's front tine tiller from the original owner
(with original manual) last spring for a similar price to turn over a
small plot of soil. I had to pick the soil first, but that's a really
nice little machine.

>> I tried to take an '83 F150 to Walmart to have a new valve stem put on.
>> Truck has a 3 on the tree. Not one of the guys working there knew how
>> to drive it up on the rack. They asked me to do it. Whatever, I'd
>> prefer that over them breaking the linkage or whatever.
>
> the only way i'd ever have service done at a Walmart would be if i was
> on the road far from home, and on a sunday when in many places it'd be
> the only place open for business.

Haha, it *was* on a Sunday... I'm certain that influenced my decision at
the time (the tire held air for maybe 30 minutes as the valve stem was).

On 2021-12-15, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
> On 12/15/2021 8:14, fos wrote:

>> i have a 1985 Ford snow blower. and just picked up a late 70's Sears
>> chipper shredder off craigslist that needed a carb rebuild and now runs
>> great. both still have many years left in them.

> Yes, the old stuff just goes on and on. I have a 70's JcPenney brand
> (Penncraft?) 1100 watt generator that I paid $40 for from Craigslist,
> and it works well to keep the fridge, DSL modem, and a light on if the
> power goes out.

> I picked up a Gilson late 60's front tine tiller from the original owner
> (with original manual) last spring for a similar price to turn over a
> small plot of soil. I had to pick the soil first, but that's a really
> nice little machine.

Ha. We can do this all week it seems. I forgot the 1980 Ariens front
tine tiller I picked up a couple years ago from a retired guy who bought
it new. Came with the manuals and original sales receipt. I've worked
the hell out it tearing up several hundred square feet of sod and dug
down at least a foot, in rocky soil, for garden beds and it doesn't skip
a beat. Local power equipment dealer told me Ariens is great at keeping
track of parts for old equipment like that and getting any common wear
components for it are available.

Everything else is much newer. Generator, Briggs, bought new in 2006.
Rarely use it but don't want to be without it. Change the oil, and drain
& replace the fuel annually, and it always starts on the first or second
pull. Push mower, Exmark commercial mower, Kawasaki engine, 2010. Weed
eater, sidewalk edger, leaf blower, and chainsaw, Stihl, all the lower
end models of the pro series, not the homeowner series, 1 per year for
the last 4 years.

When I'm done with it all in 10 or so years after I retire to a hut on a
beach somewhere in the Caribbean, I'll give it to my son who will easily
get several more decades out of it.

People, don't piss away good money on department or big box store power
equipment. That deal you think you're getting is 5 year recycle bin scrap,
if even that long. Invest in quality products from knowledgeable and
reputable dealers, maintain them well, and they'll last you nearly a
lifetime.
--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

On 12/18/2021 07:23 PM, fos wrote:

> People, don't piss away good money on department or big box store power
> equipment. That deal you think you're getting is 5 year recycle bin scrap,
> if even that long. Invest in quality products from knowledgeable and
> reputable dealers, maintain them well, and they'll last you nearly a
> lifetime.

Haunt the estate sales. I bought a new Craftsman 10mm socket maybe 10
years ago and I peeled some of the chrome off with my thumbnail.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Don't sweat it -- it's not real life. It's only ones and zeroes."
-- spaf (1988?)

On 12/18/2021 22:23, fos wrote:
> On 2021-12-15, Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>> On 12/15/2021 8:14, fos wrote:
>
>>> i have a 1985 Ford snow blower. and just picked up a late 70's Sears
>>> chipper shredder off craigslist that needed a carb rebuild and now runs
>>> great. both still have many years left in them.
>
>> Yes, the old stuff just goes on and on. I have a 70's JcPenney brand
>> (Penncraft?) 1100 watt generator that I paid $40 for from Craigslist,
>> and it works well to keep the fridge, DSL modem, and a light on if the
>> power goes out.
>
>> I picked up a Gilson late 60's front tine tiller from the original owner
>> (with original manual) last spring for a similar price to turn over a
>> small plot of soil. I had to pick the soil first, but that's a really
>> nice little machine.
>
> Ha. We can do this all week it seems. I forgot the 1980 Ariens front
> tine tiller I picked up a couple years ago from a retired guy who bought
> it new. Came with the manuals and original sales receipt. I've worked
> the hell out it tearing up several hundred square feet of sod and dug
> down at least a foot, in rocky soil, for garden beds and it doesn't skip
> a beat. Local power equipment dealer told me Ariens is great at keeping
> track of parts for old equipment like that and getting any common wear
> components for it are available.

I was surprised that the owner of my tiller made some custom tines that
replaced a few of the original ones. It's belt driven, but doesn't seem
to have issue.

> Everything else is much newer. Generator, Briggs, bought new in 2006.
> Rarely use it but don't want to be without it. Change the oil, and drain
> & replace the fuel annually, and it always starts on the first or second
> pull. Push mower, Exmark commercial mower, Kawasaki engine, 2010. Weed
> eater, sidewalk edger, leaf blower, and chainsaw, Stihl, all the lower
> end models of the pro series, not the homeowner series, 1 per year for
> the last 4 years.

I'm fortunate that my old Generator sat for 1.5 years and fired RIGHT up
when I filled the fuel. The prior owner installed a shut-off valve to
the carburetor. Turn the shut-off valve, and wait for the bowl to run
out of fuel. I very rarely use it, but I'm sure it's time for an oil
change.

> People, don't piss away good money on department or big box store power
> equipment.

I agree, buy the right tools to last. That being said, in a pinch, I
bought a $69 weed eater at Home Depot 4 years ago (I think I forgot my
check book, and only had cash to buy that one). I can't believe that
cheap unit is running strong all of this time later. Keep in mind I
only mow a couple of small city residential lots, nothing high demand.
I think ethanol free fuel keeps this weed eater running well.

I can't recall the brand of the old 70's/80's 22" push mower that I
picked up for $50, but the guy said it was his father's, and he had put
a brand new briggs/stratton engine on it a year prior. Nice higher
horse engine. He moved to a big lot and decided he no longer needed the
mower. It was unusual in the fact that it has a VERY heavy duty
aluminum deck. It'll never rust out! I bet I'll have this thing for a
life time.

SIDE NOTE: I do NOT put ethanol fuel into ANY of these small engines.
Not even into my cheap spare power mower that gets used for a rocky part
of the lawn and thrown into the truck to be taken elsewhere. I drive an
hour away to buy at least 5 gallons of ethanol free 90 octane fuel twice
per season for all of the small engines.

On 2021-12-19, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/18/2021 07:23 PM, fos wrote:

>> People, don't piss away good money on department or big box store power
>> equipment. That deal you think you're getting is 5 year recycle bin scrap,
>> if even that long. Invest in quality products from knowledgeable and
>> reputable dealers, maintain them well, and they'll last you nearly a
>> lifetime.

> Haunt the estate sales. I bought a new Craftsman 10mm socket maybe 10
> years ago and I peeled some of the chrome off with my thumbnail.

Bought my first Craftsman tool set when I was but a wee young lad in the
late 70's. The ratchets that came with that set were indestructible. I
still have the severely abused 3/8 drive ratchet that came with that set
and it has never been rebuilt.

The 1/2 drive ratchet I left setting in an engine compartment in the
late 80's and I'm sure it's still decomposing into iron oxide on the side
of a frequently traveled road. That motherfucker was much more severely
abused than the 3/8 ratchet. I have a 30 inch piece of pipe leverage
extender I used on that 1/2 inch Craftsman ratchet to break either nuts
and bolts loose or failing that, break sockets, including impact sockets.
I was a broke ass bitch back then, had to make do with what I could get
my hands on. I've stood and bounced on that ratchet with the 24 inch lever
extender attached and it never winced. I really miss that ratchet. I've
broken 3 1/2 inch Craftsman breaker bars with the same leverage extender
since.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

On 12/18/2021 08:42 PM, fos wrote:
> On 2021-12-19, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12/18/2021 07:23 PM, fos wrote:
>
>>> People, don't piss away good money on department or big box store power
>>> equipment. That deal you think you're getting is 5 year recycle bin scrap,
>>> if even that long. Invest in quality products from knowledgeable and
>>> reputable dealers, maintain them well, and they'll last you nearly a
>>> lifetime.
>
>> Haunt the estate sales. I bought a new Craftsman 10mm socket maybe 10
>> years ago and I peeled some of the chrome off with my thumbnail.
>
> Bought my first Craftsman tool set when I was but a wee young lad in the
> late 70's. The ratchets that came with that set were indestructible. I
> still have the severely abused 3/8 drive ratchet that came with that set
> and it has never been rebuilt.
>
> The 1/2 drive ratchet I left setting in an engine compartment in the
> late 80's and I'm sure it's still decomposing into iron oxide on the side
> of a frequently traveled road. That motherfucker was much more severely
> abused than the 3/8 ratchet. I have a 30 inch piece of pipe leverage
> extender I used on that 1/2 inch Craftsman ratchet to break either nuts
> and bolts loose or failing that, break sockets, including impact sockets.

When we had new tires put on our monsterhome the shop REALLY tightened
the lugnuts. We bent the good lug wrench (one of us pulling up, the
other pushing down with pipe cheaters) until we were afraid it would
break. Had to drive back to the shop to have them re-set to something
WE could deal with on the road. Fortunately, we never had to change a flat.

> I was a broke ass bitch back then, had to make do with what I could get
> my hands on. I've stood and bounced on that ratchet with the 24 inch lever
> extender attached and it never winced. I really miss that ratchet. I've
> broken 3 1/2 inch Craftsman breaker bars with the same leverage extender
> since.

In contrast, I broke a Harbor Freight open-end wrench loosening an
oilpan drain bolt.

The problem with us old farts is that we have no one to leave our GOOD
tools to. My friend has his dad's tools -- the huge ones he used on
earthmoving equipment back when we were still building freeways. Same
problem.

--
Cheers, Bev
"To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
violation of the Voting Rights Act." -- Ann Coulter

On 2021-12-19, Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

> SIDE NOTE: I do NOT put ethanol fuel into ANY of these small engines.
> Not even into my cheap spare power mower that gets used for a rocky part
> of the lawn and thrown into the truck to be taken elsewhere. I drive an
> hour away to buy at least 5 gallons of ethanol free 90 octane fuel twice
> per season for all of the small engines.

this! never put anything but ethanol free fuel in gas cans for power
equipment. and maintenance is key. 4-6 months a year my power equipment
hibernates for winter. the two strokes get their covers removed and
cleaned up, air cleaners cleaned or replaced, fuel tanks drained, then
run out of fuel. have always done that, and that's actually the procedure
printed in the manuals for the Stihl equipment i've recently purchased
new so i guess i've been doing it right all these years. 4 strokes. near
the end of the season i keep the fuel in the tanks low. the machines get
cleaned, lubed, air cleaners cleaned or replaced, up, blades sharpened,
engine oil changed, tanks drained if tool is handheld (mantis cultivator
for example), petcocks in fuel lines (installed by me if came without)
shut off and engines run until they stall to empty carburetors. generator
gets the same treatment at the same annually whether it gets used or not.

any fuel that's left in the cans get dumped into the older car. in the
spring, the cans are filled with ethanol free fuel, Stabil added, and
the first couple tanks of fuel in each piece of equipment in the spring
gets a fuel system cleaner such as Seafoam for Gumout added at a rate
of 1oz per gallon. also, is as a rule of thumb i add a can of Seafoam or
Gumout to a full tank of fuel with every oil change on the motor vehicles.

happy engines are reliable, easy starting engines that last a long time.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>It got me wondering...
>Who sorts a set of 4 tires by price high to low? Or by brand?

My father would sort by price. He would always buy the cheapest possible
tires. It's a wonder he wasn't killed on the highway as a result, too.

I will sort by brand, because in general once I find a tire I like, I will
stick with that particular model of tire, or the successor to that model,
as long as possible.

>I'm 75 and have replaced my tires for decades where my current philosophy is
>that (a) tires are tires, and (if you're replacing all four as a set), then
>you (b) you buy that set by the spec and finally, (c), if the specs are
>almost or exactly the same, then you decide by price (lower is better).

Tires are not tires. Find a set you like, then keep buying them. Someday
they will be discontinued and then you will have an adventure. Put that off
as long as possible.

Specs are nice, but two tires with the same numbers on the website may feel
totally different on your car.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."