On Saturday, 16 September 2023 at 19:19:09 UTC+2, Paparios wrote:
> El sábado, 16 de septiembre de 2023 a las 1:25:40 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> > On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:07:20 PM UTC-3, Paparios wrote:
> > > El viernes, 15 de septiembre de 2023 a las 20:11:21 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> > > > On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 7:23:47 PM UTC-3, Paparios wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > Nonsense. Read the oficial GPS document (IS-GPS-200M). Particularly read section 3.3.1.1
> > > > As usual, Miguelito, you're full of shit and ignorance. Read (STUDY) these sections. Don't fool yourself like in your thesis, 40 years ago.
> > > >
> > > From section 3.3.1.1 (which you ave not read)
> > >
> > > "The Carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall be coherently derived from a common frequency source within the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears to an observer on the ground -- is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic effects. The clock rates are offset by delta f/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset by a delta f = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz".
> > >
> > > Note that this relativistic correction is totally independent of the used atomic clock (cesium or rubidium). Both atomic clock working frequencies, by the use of download counters, get the 10.2299999954326 MHz ticking frequency.
> > I told you that section 3.3.1.1 is LEGACY (from Oct1993 UNCLASSIFIED ICD-GPS-200 Rev. C, Initial Release), but you prefer your
> > historic fairy tale.
> >
> > This section still is maintained in further releases, like IS-GPS-200M (13 Apr 2021), but what should count for your understanding is:
> >
> Of course section 3.3.1.1 has not changed, since the start of the GPS system. The reason is that section is fundamental for the operation of the GPS system. GR gravitational time dilation

No such thing in GPS, sorry, poor halfbrain. It only
exists in the delusions of relativistic clowns, GPS
time is the same for ground bases and satellites.
https://timetoolsltd.com/gps/what-is-gps-time/

To Volney and Paparios, try to digest what follows without choking yourselves: No offset is done in rubidium based GPS master XO.

Relativity in the Global Positioning System
Neil Ashby, Dept. of Physics, University of Colorado
https://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1

QUOTE (cesium clocks):
5 Relativistic Effects on Satellite Clocks
........................
In order for the satellite clock to appear to an observer on the geoid to beat at the chosen frequency of 10.23 MHz, the satellite
clocks are adjusted lower in frequency so that the proper frequency is:

[1−4.4647×10−10]×10.23MHz=10.22999999543MHz. ((36))

This adjustment is accomplished ON THE GROUND before the clock is placed in orbit.
**********************************************

QUOTE (rubidium clocks):

When GPS satellites were first deployed, the specified factory frequency offset was slightly in error because the important contribution from earth’s centripetal potential (see Eq. (18) had been inadvertently omitted at one stage of the evaluation. Although GPS managers were made aware of this error in the early 1980s, eight years passed before system specifications were changed to reflect the correct calculation [2]. As understanding of the numerous sources of error in the GPS slowly improved, it eventually made sense to incorporate
the correct relativistic calculation.

It has become common practice NOT TO APPLY SUCH OFFSETS to Rubidium clocks as these are subject to unpredictable frequency jumps during launch. Instead, AFTER such clocks are placed in orbit their frequencies are measured and THE ACTUAL FREQUENCY CORRECTIONS NEEDED ARE INCORPORATED IN THE CLOCK CORRECTION POLYNOMIAL THAT ACCOMPANIES THE NAVIGATION MESSAGE.
**********************************************

Do you understand what this means? As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band. Only the
SVN 72 (GPS Block IIF) uses cesium for this band and, allegedly, IS THE ONLY ONE DETUNED!

The other 30 active GPS SV introduces the frequency correction IN THE POLYNOMIAL, which is sent to users and LET THEM MAKE
THE CORRECTION (IF THEY WANT TO)

THIS POLYNOMIAL: Δtˢᵛ = aᶠ⁰ + aᶠ¹ (t - tᵒᶜ) + aᶠ² (t - tᵒᶜ)² - Δtᵍᵈ + (Δtᵣ = F e √A sin Eᵏ), which is incorporated in the calculation of the
GPS Time in the receiver, but with all the parameterts (except sin Eᵏ) computed onboard at each GPS SV.

And Δtᵣ is a fixed value, not depending on GPS Time t, except for user calculation of the true eccentricity Eᵏ.

PLEASE, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING LEGACY MYTH Point 3.3.1.1 (from Oct 1993 UNCLASSIFIED ICD-GPS-200 Rev. C).

This is OLD STUFF, and people got tired of this lie, deception, made just to please the relativist lobby.

YET MORE:

Confusion and consternation
Historically, there has been much confusion about properly accounting for relativistic effects. And it is almost
impossible to discover how different manufacturers go about it! In one case, a manufacturer was found to be
double-counting. During 1989-90 I wrote letters to about a dozen receiver manufacturers inquiring about
relativistic corrections in their software.

Two of them responded with reasonable information, but nothing was heard from the others until some years later,
when a rumor began circulating, alleging that some manufacturers thought I was trying to steal their secrets!

NOTE: WHAT SECRETS?

Another story, some years after that, had it that my letter caused consternation and much tweaking of receiver
software. GPS managers have been extremely sensitive to assertions that relativistic effects were not being properly
taken into account.
.....

WILL YOU STILL KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE DETUNING OF GPS XO MASTER CLOCK BY 0.004567399621 Hz, which
accumulates 0.000038575105304 seconds in one day, producing a final positioning error of 11.564.53 m?

Don't be so IGNORANT anymore. In any case, the 11.5 Km is the RANGING ERROR (URE), not in user location and GPS
Time offset (in m). If existed, such error would be split between 8 different variables (a pair of xyz plus two GPS Time).

Go back to the study room, and stop supporting legacy MYTH, which is refuted nowadays by 15 countries.

Relativity has no role in GNSS, no matter how hard relativists push it.

On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> To Volney and Paparios, try to digest what follows without choking yourselves: No offset is done in rubidium based GPS master XO.
>
>
> Relativity in the Global Positioning System
> Neil Ashby, Dept. of Physics, University of Colorado
> https://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1
>
> QUOTE (cesium clocks):
> 5 Relativistic Effects on Satellite Clocks
> .......................
> In order for the satellite clock to appear to an observer on the geoid to beat at the chosen frequency of 10.23 MHz, the satellite
> clocks are adjusted lower in frequency so that the proper frequency is:
>
> [1−4.4647×10−10]×10.23MHz=10.22999999543MHz. ((36))

Exactly. This is why the GR solution is the correct one, and the
Newtonian solution (transmit at 10.23 MHz to be received at 10.23 MHz)
But this has been known since the 1977 GPS prototype.
>
> This adjustment is accomplished ON THE GROUND before the clock is placed in orbit.

Exactly. Since the GR correction is known and doesn't change once it is
in orbit, it would be rather silly to change it after launch. Do you
think that "ON THE GROUND" (capitalized by yourself) is significant
somehow, or is that the random capitalization that many cranks
(including yourself) frequently do?

They COULD set it in orbit (and actually did so with the first
prototype, switching between two frequencies before realizing Einstein
was right), so set it once at manufacture (which is on the ground) and
be done with it.

> **********************************************
>
> QUOTE (rubidium clocks):
>
> When GPS satellites were first deployed, the specified factory frequency offset was slightly in error because the important contribution from earth’s centripetal potential (see Eq. (18) had been inadvertently omitted at one stage of the evaluation. Although GPS managers were made aware of this error in the early 1980s, eight years passed before system specifications were changed to reflect the correct calculation [2]. As understanding of the numerous sources of error in the GPS slowly improved, it eventually made sense to incorporate
> the correct relativistic calculation.
>
> It has become common practice NOT TO APPLY SUCH OFFSETS

More random capitalization?

> to Rubidium clocks as these are subject to unpredictable frequency jumps during launch. Instead, AFTER such clocks are placed in orbit their frequencies are measured and THE ACTUAL FREQUENCY CORRECTIONS NEEDED ARE INCORPORATED IN THE CLOCK CORRECTION POLYNOMIAL THAT ACCOMPANIES THE NAVIGATION MESSAGE.

Even more unnecessary capitalization. Do you have even a clue what this
frequency jumps after launch are and why they happen? How do the words
you capitalized disprove GR in any way? It looks like some source of
error was overlooked and need to be corrected.

> **********************************************
>
> Do you understand what this means?

Yes, it means you *still* have some sort of OCD or other mental health
condition which causes you to attack it without basis.

> As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.

Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?

> Only the
> SVN 72 (GPS Block IIF) uses cesium for this band and, allegedly, IS THE ONLY ONE DETUNED!

"Allegedly"? Your source is what, "trust me"? What do you mean
"DETUNED"? The GPS system is /designed/, everything is tuned/frequency
defined for a very specific reason.

> The other 30 active GPS SV introduces the frequency correction IN THE POLYNOMIAL, which is sent to users and LET THEM MAKE
> THE CORRECTION (IF THEY WANT TO)

What, you are claiming that GPS receivers behave differently from each
other, and not according to the GPS spec?
>
[snip irrelevancy]
>
> PLEASE, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING LEGACY MYTH Point 3.3.1.1 (from Oct 1993 UNCLASSIFIED ICD-GPS-200 Rev. C).

Sorry, but it's part of the most recent GPS spec as well. As it must be,
since it is fundamental to its operation.
>
> This is OLD STUFF,

Yes, and it works, and has never been changed.

> and people got tired of this lie, deception,

Yes people are quite tired of your lies and deceptions.

> made just to please the relativist lobby.

What the hell is a "relativist lobby"? A touch of paranoid
schizophrenia, Richard? In reality, there are two groups, scientists who
understand and use GR, and cranks who don't understand it and attack it
because they think anything they don't understand must be wrong, have
some sort of mental health issue, or even antisemitic. Oh a third group,
the majority who don't care because they have no direct contact with GR
other than their GPS phone app works.
>
> YET MORE:
>
> Confusion and consternation
> Historically, there has been much confusion about properly accounting for relativistic effects. And it is almost
> impossible to discover how different manufacturers go about it! In one case, a manufacturer was found to be
> double-counting. During 1989-90 I wrote letters to about a dozen receiver manufacturers inquiring about
> relativistic corrections in their software.
>
> Two of them responded with reasonable information, but nothing was heard from the others until some years later,
> when a rumor began circulating, alleging that some manufacturers thought I was trying to steal their secrets!

That paranoid schizophrenia again?
>
> NOTE: WHAT SECRETS?

Better. But do remember that each manufacturer will have trade secret
algorithms for many functions to do something better, and aren't about
to release that.

(long ago I wrote to a UPS manufacturer asking for the communications
interface so I could use it for a couple of operating systems. They
supplied Windoze-only software (.exe only). I was about to get it when
it appeared someone higher up on the food chain there nixed it. Someone
else reverse-engineered it for Linux)
>
> Another story, some years after that, had it that my letter caused consternation and much tweaking of receiver
> software. GPS managers have been extremely sensitive to assertions that relativistic effects were not being properly
> taken into account.

There's that schizophrenia again. See a mental health professional.
> ....
>
> WILL YOU STILL KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE DETUNING OF GPS XO MASTER CLOCK BY 0.004567399621 Hz, which
> accumulates 0.000038575105304 seconds in one day, producing a final positioning error of 11.564.53 m

11.5 Kilometers. Per day. Each and every day, cumulative.
Aren't civilian GPSes supposed to be accurate to a couple meters? And
military to 30 cm? Can't do that if it's off by more than 11 km/day!
? >
> Don't be so IGNORANT anymore. In any case, the 11.5 Km is the RANGING ERROR (URE),

Oh this time you got it correct.

> not in user location

It IS the location error, in 3 dimensions (4 if you count error in time
calculations). 11.5 km/day just won't cut it.

[snip even more nonsense]

> Relativity has no role in GNSS, no matter how hard relativists push it.

The frequency offset necessary is RIGHT THERE in Section 3.3.1.1 of the
most recent GPS spec. Too bad for you!

On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 07:50:28 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
> On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > To Volney and Paparios, try to digest what follows without choking yourselves: No offset is done in rubidium based GPS master XO.
> >
> >
> > Relativity in the Global Positioning System
> > Neil Ashby, Dept. of Physics, University of Colorado
> > https://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1
> >
> > QUOTE (cesium clocks):
> > 5 Relativistic Effects on Satellite Clocks
> > .......................
> > In order for the satellite clock to appear to an observer on the geoid to beat at the chosen frequency of 10.23 MHz, the satellite
> > clocks are adjusted lower in frequency so that the proper frequency is:
> >
> > [1−4.4647×10−10]×10.23MHz=10.22999999543MHz.. ((36))
> Exactly. This is why the GR solution is the correct one, and the
> Newtonian solution (transmit at 10.23 MHz to be received at 10.23 MHz)

Sorry, stupid Mike. Your bunch of idiots is only asserting
it's 10.22999999543. Measured by local clocks of a satellite
(the ones set to 9192631774 instead to your ISO/proper
time idiocy) it's 10.23.

> What the hell is a "relativist lobby"? A touch of paranoid

A set of brainwashed idiots like Tom, both Jans, Python,
Dono, yourself.

El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 1:04:24 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> To Volney and Paparios, try to digest what follows without choking yourselves: No offset is done in rubidium based GPS master XO.
>
>
> Relativity in the Global Positioning System
> Neil Ashby, Dept. of Physics, University of Colorado
> https://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1
>
> QUOTE (cesium clocks):
> 5 Relativistic Effects on Satellite Clocks
> .......................
> In order for the satellite clock to appear to an observer on the geoid to beat at the chosen frequency of 10.23 MHz, the satellite
> clocks are adjusted lower in frequency so that the proper frequency is:
>
> [1−4.4647×10−10]×10.23MHz=10.22999999543MHz. ((36))
>
> This adjustment is accomplished ON THE GROUND before the clock is placed in orbit.
> **********************************************
>
> QUOTE (rubidium clocks):
>
> When GPS satellites were first deployed, the specified factory frequency offset was slightly in error because the important contribution from earth’s centripetal potential (see Eq. (18) had been inadvertently omitted at one stage of the evaluation. Although GPS managers were made aware of this error in the early 1980s, eight years passed before system specifications were changed to reflect the correct calculation [2]. As understanding of the numerous sources of error in the GPS slowly improved, it eventually made sense to incorporate
> the correct relativistic calculation.
>
> It has become common practice NOT TO APPLY SUCH OFFSETS to Rubidium clocks as these are subject to unpredictable frequency jumps during launch. Instead, AFTER such clocks are placed in orbit their frequencies are measured and THE ACTUAL FREQUENCY CORRECTIONS NEEDED ARE INCORPORATED IN THE CLOCK CORRECTION POLYNOMIAL THAT ACCOMPANIES THE NAVIGATION MESSAGE.
> **********************************************
>
> Do you understand what this means? As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band. Only the
> SVN 72 (GPS Block IIF) uses cesium for this band and, allegedly, IS THE ONLY ONE DETUNED!
>
> The other 30 active GPS SV introduces the frequency correction IN THE POLYNOMIAL, which is sent to users and LET THEM MAKE
> THE CORRECTION (IF THEY WANT TO)
>
> THIS POLYNOMIAL: Δtˢᵛ = aᶠ⁰ + aᶠ¹ (t - tᵒᶜ) + aᶠ² (t - tᵒᶜ)² - Δtᵍᵈ + (Δtᵣ = F e √A sin Eᵏ), which is incorporated in the calculation of the
> GPS Time in the receiver, but with all the parameterts (except sin Eᵏ) computed onboard at each GPS SV.
>
> And Δtᵣ is a fixed value, not depending on GPS Time t, except for user calculation of the true eccentricity Eᵏ.
>
> PLEASE, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING LEGACY MYTH Point 3.3.1.1 (from Oct 1993 UNCLASSIFIED ICD-GPS-200 Rev. C).
>
> This is OLD STUFF, and people got tired of this lie, deception, made just to please the relativist lobby.
>
> YET MORE:
>
> Confusion and consternation
> Historically, there has been much confusion about properly accounting for relativistic effects. And it is almost
> impossible to discover how different manufacturers go about it! In one case, a manufacturer was found to be
> double-counting. During 1989-90 I wrote letters to about a dozen receiver manufacturers inquiring about
> relativistic corrections in their software.
>
> Two of them responded with reasonable information, but nothing was heard from the others until some years later,
> when a rumor began circulating, alleging that some manufacturers thought I was trying to steal their secrets!
>
> NOTE: WHAT SECRETS?
>
> Another story, some years after that, had it that my letter caused consternation and much tweaking of receiver
> software. GPS managers have been extremely sensitive to assertions that relativistic effects were not being properly
> taken into account.
> ....
>
> WILL YOU STILL KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE DETUNING OF GPS XO MASTER CLOCK BY 0.004567399621 Hz, which
> accumulates 0.000038575105304 seconds in one day, producing a final positioning error of 11.564.53 m?
>
> Don't be so IGNORANT anymore. In any case, the 11.5 Km is the RANGING ERROR (URE), not in user location and GPS
> Time offset (in m). If existed, such error would be split between 8 different variables (a pair of xyz plus two GPS Time).
>
> Go back to the study room, and stop supporting legacy MYTH, which is refuted nowadays by 15 countries.
>
> Relativity has no role in GNSS, no matter how hard relativists push it.

What a bunch of nonsense you write!!!!

First you use Professor Ashby paper, which carefully explains (using General Relativity equations) why a GPS satellite in orbit has to generate signals at 10.22999999543 MHz, in order to receive those signals on the ground at 10.23 MHz.

Secondly you, a famous electronic engineer, have no idea how an atomic clock Works. You can learn that in several sites (https://www.livescience.com/32660-how-does-an-atomic-clock-work.html).

Cesium atomic clocks resonate at precisely 9,192,631,770 Hz, which can't be changed (Wozniak will never understand this). Rubidium atomic clocks resonate precisely at 6,834,682,610.904 Hz.

Third, launching a GPS satellite involves using a rocket with brutal accelerations. For that reason all atomic clocks are started while they are in orbit (ie after the launching).

Finally, the GPS system (as Ashby explains) does use General Relativity to calculate the relativistic effects on the satellite transmitted signals.

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 2:50:28 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:

<snip>

> > As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.
> Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
> be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?

<snip>

So you keep being an imbecile. I forgot to remark what you did for me, thanks!

if ALL GPS SV Master XO are running at 10.22999999543 MHz while in orbit, it means that all the onboard systems
are using this frequency and its derivates (higher and lower multiples).

THEN, everything that is computed at each SV, and transmitted in the Navigation Message CONTAIN the relativistic
error caused by the 0.004567399621 Hz frequency shift!

All these parameters, then, ARE WRONG! See why you are an imbecile ignorant?

http://www.wdcb.ru/mining/Gps/Texas/ephclock.html

GPS Satellite Ephemeris and Clock Parameters

CLOCK FOR SATELLITE 2 :
PRN number for data ......... 2
Week number...... ........... 797
Predicted user range accuracy 32
Health of satellite ......... 0
L1 - L2 Correction term ..... 9.31323E-10
Issue of clock data ......... 224
Time of clock data .......... 240704
Clock offset ................ -0.000158074
Clock drift ................. -2.50111E-12
Rate of clock drift ......... 0

EPHEMERIS FOR SATELLITE 2 :
PRN number for data .................. 2
Issue of ephemeris data .............. 224
Semi-Major Axis (meters) ............. 2.65603E+07
C(ic) (rad) .......................... 1.88127E-07
C(is) (rad) .......................... -1.00583E-07
C(rc) (meters) ....................... 321.656
C(rs) (meters) ....................... 87.6875
C(uc) (rad) .......................... 4.36418E-06
C(us) (rad) .......................... 2.70829E-06
Mean motion difference (rad/sec) ..... 5.04521E-09
Eccentricity (dimensionless) ......... 0.0139305
Rate of inclination angle (rad/sec) .. 4.11089E-10
Inclination angle @ ref. time (rad) .. 0.950462
Mean Anomaly at reference time (rad) . -2.62555
Corrected Mean Motion (rad/sec) ...... 0.000145859
Computed Mean Motion (rad/sec) ....... 0.000145854
Argument of perigee (rad) ............ -2.56865
Rate of right ascension (rad/sec) .... -8.43857E-09
Right ascension @ ref time (rad) ..... 1.75048
Sqrt (1 - e^2) ....................... 0.999903
Sqr root semi-major axis, (m^1/2) .... 5153.67
Reference time ephemeris (sec) ....... 240704

The above data is transmitted to the GPS receiver, and used in every calculation the terminal does.

But they were calculated using 1 FALSE second = 0.999999999553529 REAL seconds.

Still don't understand the relativity hoax, don't you?

You tried to solve the problem in one point (carrier frequency reaching Earth's surface as multiple of 10.23000000000 Mhz),
but it causes that every GPS satellite operate with 10.2299999954326 Mhz.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

Keep sustaining that relativity play a role in GPS, so you bury yourself more and more in the well of ignorance and relativistic faith,
as it correspond to any religion.

On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 15:35:34 UTC+2, Paparios wrote:
> El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 1:04:24 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> > To Volney and Paparios, try to digest what follows without choking yourselves: No offset is done in rubidium based GPS master XO.
> >
> >
> > Relativity in the Global Positioning System
> > Neil Ashby, Dept. of Physics, University of Colorado
> > https://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1
> >
> > QUOTE (cesium clocks):
> > 5 Relativistic Effects on Satellite Clocks
> > .......................
> > In order for the satellite clock to appear to an observer on the geoid to beat at the chosen frequency of 10.23 MHz, the satellite
> > clocks are adjusted lower in frequency so that the proper frequency is:
> >
> > [1−4.4647×10−10]×10.23MHz=10.22999999543MHz.. ((36))
> >
> > This adjustment is accomplished ON THE GROUND before the clock is placed in orbit.
> > **********************************************
> >
> > QUOTE (rubidium clocks):
> >
> > When GPS satellites were first deployed, the specified factory frequency offset was slightly in error because the important contribution from earth’s centripetal potential (see Eq. (18) had been inadvertently omitted at one stage of the evaluation. Although GPS managers were made aware of this error in the early 1980s, eight years passed before system specifications were changed to reflect the correct calculation [2]. As understanding of the numerous sources of error in the GPS slowly improved, it eventually made sense to incorporate
> > the correct relativistic calculation.
> >
> > It has become common practice NOT TO APPLY SUCH OFFSETS to Rubidium clocks as these are subject to unpredictable frequency jumps during launch. Instead, AFTER such clocks are placed in orbit their frequencies are measured and THE ACTUAL FREQUENCY CORRECTIONS NEEDED ARE INCORPORATED IN THE CLOCK CORRECTION POLYNOMIAL THAT ACCOMPANIES THE NAVIGATION MESSAGE.
> > **********************************************
> >
> > Do you understand what this means? As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band. Only the
> > SVN 72 (GPS Block IIF) uses cesium for this band and, allegedly, IS THE ONLY ONE DETUNED!
> >
> > The other 30 active GPS SV introduces the frequency correction IN THE POLYNOMIAL, which is sent to users and LET THEM MAKE
> > THE CORRECTION (IF THEY WANT TO)
> >
> > THIS POLYNOMIAL: Δtˢᵛ = aᶠ⁰ + aᶠ¹ (t - tᵒᶜ) + aᶠ² (t - tᵒᶜ)² - Δtᵍᵈ + (Δtᵣ = F e √A sin Eᵏ), which is incorporated in the calculation of the
> > GPS Time in the receiver, but with all the parameterts (except sin Eᵏ) computed onboard at each GPS SV.
> >
> > And Δtᵣ is a fixed value, not depending on GPS Time t, except for user calculation of the true eccentricity Eᵏ.
> >
> > PLEASE, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING LEGACY MYTH Point 3.3.1.1 (from Oct 1993 UNCLASSIFIED ICD-GPS-200 Rev. C).
> >
> > This is OLD STUFF, and people got tired of this lie, deception, made just to please the relativist lobby.
> >
> > YET MORE:
> >
> > Confusion and consternation
> > Historically, there has been much confusion about properly accounting for relativistic effects. And it is almost
> > impossible to discover how different manufacturers go about it! In one case, a manufacturer was found to be
> > double-counting. During 1989-90 I wrote letters to about a dozen receiver manufacturers inquiring about
> > relativistic corrections in their software.
> >
> > Two of them responded with reasonable information, but nothing was heard from the others until some years later,
> > when a rumor began circulating, alleging that some manufacturers thought I was trying to steal their secrets!
> >
> > NOTE: WHAT SECRETS?
> >
> > Another story, some years after that, had it that my letter caused consternation and much tweaking of receiver
> > software. GPS managers have been extremely sensitive to assertions that relativistic effects were not being properly
> > taken into account.
> > ....
> >
> > WILL YOU STILL KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE DETUNING OF GPS XO MASTER CLOCK BY 0.004567399621 Hz, which
> > accumulates 0.000038575105304 seconds in one day, producing a final positioning error of 11.564.53 m?
> >
> > Don't be so IGNORANT anymore. In any case, the 11.5 Km is the RANGING ERROR (URE), not in user location and GPS
> > Time offset (in m). If existed, such error would be split between 8 different variables (a pair of xyz plus two GPS Time).
> >
> > Go back to the study room, and stop supporting legacy MYTH, which is refuted nowadays by 15 countries.
> >
> > Relativity has no role in GNSS, no matter how hard relativists push it.
> What a bunch of nonsense you write!!!!
>
> First you use Professor Ashby paper, which carefully explains (using General Relativity equations) why a GPS satellite in orbit has to generate signals at 10.22999999543 MHz, in order to receive those signals on the ground at 10.23 MHz.

What a bunch of nonsenses your professor writes.

>
> Secondly you, a famous electronic engineer, have no idea how an atomic clock Works. You can learn that in several sites (https://www.livescience.com/32660-how-does-an-atomic-clock-work.html).
>
> Cesium atomic clocks resonate at precisely 9,192,631,770 Hz

In the delusions of your bunch of idiots. Or on Earth.
On a GPS satellite it's measaured as 9,192,631,774.
Sorry, poor halfbrain.

El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 10:51:47 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 2:50:28 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> > On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> <snip>
> > > As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.
> > Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
> > be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?
> <snip>
>
> So you keep being an imbecile. I forgot to remark what you did for me, thanks!
>
> if ALL GPS SV Master XO are running at 10.22999999543 MHz while in orbit, it means that all the onboard systems
> are using this frequency and its derivates (higher and lower múltiples).
>

More nonsense of yours. The GPS system uses the bands explained in section 3.3.1.1:

"For Block IIA, IIR, IIR-M, and IIF satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 20.46 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table 3-Vb). For GPS III, GPS IIIF, and subsequent satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 30.69 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table
3-Vc).

The Carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall be coherently derived from a common frequency source within the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears to an observer on the ground --is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic effects. The clock rates are offset by deltaf/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset by a deltaf = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz.

The nominal Carrier frequencies (f0) shall be 1575.42 MHz, and 1227.6 MHz for L1 and L2, respectively".

Try to remember how to read a text!!!!!

On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 17:24:56 UTC+2, Paparios wrote:
> El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 10:51:47 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 2:50:28 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> > > On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > > As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.
> > > Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
> > > be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?
> > <snip>
> >
> > So you keep being an imbecile. I forgot to remark what you did for me, thanks!
> >
> > if ALL GPS SV Master XO are running at 10.22999999543 MHz while in orbit, it means that all the onboard systems
> > are using this frequency and its derivates (higher and lower múltiples).
> >
>
> More nonsense of yours. The GPS system uses the bands explained in section 3.3.1.1:
>
> "For Block IIA, IIR, IIR-M, and IIF satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 20.46 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table 3-Vb). For GPS III, GPS IIIF, and subsequent satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 30.69 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table
> 3-Vc).
>
> The Carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall be coherently derived from a common frequency source within the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears to an observer on the ground --is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic effects.. The clock rates are offset by deltaf/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset by a deltaf = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz.
>
> The nominal Carrier frequencies (f0) shall be 1575.42 MHz, and 1227.6 MHz for L1 and L2, respectively".
>
> Try to remember how to read a text!!!!!

Sorry, poor trash, not every text is worthy of reading.
And this one is obviously mistaken, as the mentioned
frequency measured by the local satellite clock
is 10.23, with the precision of an acceptable error.

El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 12:39:25 UTC-3, Maciej Wozniak escribió:
> On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 17:24:56 UTC+2, Paparios wrote:
> > El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 10:51:47 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> > > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 2:50:28 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> > > > On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > > As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.
> > > > Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
> > > > be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > So you keep being an imbecile. I forgot to remark what you did for me, thanks!
> > >
> > > if ALL GPS SV Master XO are running at 10.22999999543 MHz while in orbit, it means that all the onboard systems
> > > are using this frequency and its derivates (higher and lower múltiples).
> > >
> >
> > More nonsense of yours. The GPS system uses the bands explained in section 3.3.1.1:
> >
> > "For Block IIA, IIR, IIR-M, and IIF satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 20.46 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table 3-Vb). For GPS III, GPS IIIF, and subsequent satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 30.69 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table
> > 3-Vc).
> >
> > The Carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall be coherently derived from a common frequency source within the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears to an observer on the ground --is 10.23 MHz.. The SV carrier frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic effects. The clock rates are offset by deltaf/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset by a deltaf = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz.
> >
> > The nominal Carrier frequencies (f0) shall be 1575.42 MHz, and 1227.6 MHz for L1 and L2, respectively".
> >
> > Try to remember how to read a text!!!!!
> Sorry, poor trash, not every text is worthy of Reading.
> And this one is obviously mistaken, as the mentioned
> frequency measured by the local satellite clock
> is 10.23, with the precision of an aceptable error.

Sure. According to you the guys who run the GPS system do not know what frequencies they have to use. Are you sure you are the greatest logician in this world???

On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 18:32:26 UTC+2, Paparios wrote:
> El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 12:39:25 UTC-3, Maciej Wozniak escribió:
> > On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 17:24:56 UTC+2, Paparios wrote:
> > > El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 10:51:47 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> > > > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 2:50:28 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> > > > > On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > > As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.
> > > > > Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
> > > > > be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > So you keep being an imbecile. I forgot to remark what you did for me, thanks!
> > > >
> > > > if ALL GPS SV Master XO are running at 10.22999999543 MHz while in orbit, it means that all the onboard systems
> > > > are using this frequency and its derivates (higher and lower múltiples).
> > > >
> > >
> > > More nonsense of yours. The GPS system uses the bands explained in section 3.3.1.1:
> > >
> > > "For Block IIA, IIR, IIR-M, and IIF satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 20.46 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table 3-Vb). For GPS III, GPS IIIF, and subsequent satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 30.69 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table
> > > 3-Vc).
> > >
> > > The Carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall be coherently derived from a common frequency source within the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears to an observer on the ground --is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic effects. The clock rates are offset by deltaf/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset by a deltaf = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz.
> > >
> > > The nominal Carrier frequencies (f0) shall be 1575.42 MHz, and 1227.6 MHz for L1 and L2, respectively".
> > >
> > > Try to remember how to read a text!!!!!
> > Sorry, poor trash, not every text is worthy of Reading.
> > And this one is obviously mistaken, as the mentioned
> > frequency measured by the local satellite clock
> > is 10.23, with the precision of an aceptable error.
>
> Sure. According to you the guys who run the GPS system do not know what frequencies they have to use.

Not quite. Maybe they know what "would appear" - so
what? What would appear has no importance,
the measurement result is diffewrent.

> Are you sure you are the greatest logician in this world???
No.

Demented ranting idiot Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> ...
> the measurement result is diffewrent.

What is that word? A mix of "different" and "a few"?

On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 18:57:17 UTC+2, Python wrote:
> Demented ranting idiot Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> > ...
> > the measurement result is diffewrent.
> What is that word? A mix of "different" and "a few"?

No, poor halfbrain, it's a mistyped "different".

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 1:32:26 PM UTC-3, Paparios wrote:
> El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 12:39:25 UTC-3, Maciej Wozniak escribió:
> > On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 17:24:56 UTC+2, Paparios wrote:
> > > El domingo, 17 de septiembre de 2023 a las 10:51:47 UTC-3, Richard Hertz escribió:
> > > > On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 2:50:28 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
> > > > > On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > > As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.
> > > > > Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
> > > > > be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > So you keep being an imbecile. I forgot to remark what you did for me, thanks!
> > > >
> > > > if ALL GPS SV Master XO are running at 10.22999999543 MHz while in orbit, it means that all the onboard systems
> > > > are using this frequency and its derivates (higher and lower múltiples).
> > > >
> > >
> > > More nonsense of yours. The GPS system uses the bands explained in section 3.3.1.1:
> > >
> > > "For Block IIA, IIR, IIR-M, and IIF satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 20.46 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table 3-Vb). For GPS III, GPS IIIF, and subsequent satellites, the requirements specified in this IS shall pertain to the signal contained within two 30.69 MHz bands; one centered about the L1 nominal frequency and the other centered about the L2 nominal frequency (see Table
> > > 3-Vc).
> > >
> > > The Carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall be coherently derived from a common frequency source within the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears to an observer on the ground --is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic effects. The clock rates are offset by deltaf/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset by a deltaf = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz.
> > >
> > > The nominal Carrier frequencies (f0) shall be 1575.42 MHz, and 1227.6 MHz for L1 and L2, respectively".
> > >
> > > Try to remember how to read a text!!!!!
> > Sorry, poor trash, not every text is worthy of Reading.
> > And this one is obviously mistaken, as the mentioned
> > frequency measured by the local satellite clock
> > is 10.23, with the precision of an aceptable error.
>
> Sure. According to you the guys who run the GPS system do not know what frequencies they have to use. Are you sure you are the greatest logician in this world???

A cheap, bastard comment, without any sense or substantiation.

But, what to expect from Miguelito. He's used to these shitty attacks even before he worked sucking the balls of Pinochet and
the britons, 45 years ago.

On 9/17/2023 9:51 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 2:50:28 AM UTC-3, Volney wrote:
>> On 9/17/2023 12:04 AM, Richard Hertz wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> As of today, 30 of the 31 GPS SV actives uses rubidium clocks for L1 civilian band.
>> Do these 30 rubidium clocks transmit at 10.22999999543 MHz in order to
>> be received at 10.23 MHz? Does the Cs based satellite do so?
>
> <snip>
>
> So you keep being an imbecile. I forgot to remark what you did for me, thanks!
>
> if ALL GPS SV Master XO are running at 10.22999999543 MHz while in orbit, it means that all the onboard systems
> are using this frequency and its derivates (higher and lower multiples).

So you admit the GPS birds really do have a master signal running at
10.22999999543 MHz. That's a start.

> All these parameters, then, ARE WRONG! See why you are an imbecile ignorant?

How are they wrong?
>
> http://www.wdcb.ru/mining/Gps/Texas/ephclock.html

..ru? Why aren't you using the most recent version of the GPS spec,
rather than a russian knock-off? Specifically, read section 3.3.1.1.
>
[snip irrelevant GPS satellite data]

> But they were calculated using 1 FALSE second = 0.999999999553529 REAL seconds.

There are no "FALSE" or "REAL" seconds. There is only the SI second,
defined as 9192631770 local Cs transition times.
>
> Still don't understand the relativity hoax, don't you?

I haven't seen any evidence of any "hoax". My GPS app gives good
directions and isn't incorrect by 11 km each day, cumulative. It works.
>
> You tried to solve the problem in one point (carrier frequency reaching Earth's surface as multiple of 10.23000000000 Mhz),
> but it causes that every GPS satellite operate with 10.2299999954326 Mhz.
>
> DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

It does appear that you are beginning to understand. The master signal
on the satellites is 10.22999999543 MHz and is received as 10.23 MHz on
earth. You can do it! Fight your mental illness and LEARN!
>
> Keep sustaining that relativity play a role in GPS, so you bury yourself more and more in the well of ignorance and relativistic faith,
> as it correspond to any religion.

Tell us, if the answer isn't general relativity, why do the satellites
use 10.22999999543 MHz but are received on earth as 10.23 MHz. Don't
post pages of blithering blather that's not relevant, a relatively short
paragraph will do.

On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 21:16:29 UTC+2, Volney wrote:

> There are no "FALSE" or "REAL" seconds. There is only the SI second,

Because stupid Mike is not going to tolerate another.

> defined as 9192631770 local Cs transition times.

See, trash - but GPS is intended to do reliable measurements
instead religious rituals showing us greatness of an insane
crazie; no surprise they have ignored your SI idiocy and
set [some of] their clocks to 9192631774, according to
the real second as it always was.

> >
> > Still don't understand the relativity hoax, don't you?
> I haven't seen any evidence of any "hoax". My GPS app gives good
> directions and isn't incorrect by 11 km each day, cumulative. It works.

Of course it does.

> >
> > You tried to solve the problem in one point (carrier frequency reaching Earth's surface as multiple of 10.23000000000 Mhz),
> > but it causes that every GPS satellite operate with 10.2299999954326 Mhz.
> >
> > DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?
> It does appear that you are beginning to understand. The master signal
> on the satellites is 10.22999999543 MHz

No, it is not. The result of a measurement is
different.

Demented idiot, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Sunday, 17 September 2023 at 18:57:17 UTC+2, Python wrote:
>> Demented ranting idiot Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>> ...
>>> the measurement result is diffewrent.
>> What is that word? A mix of "different" and "a few"?
>
> No, it's a mistyped "different".

This is completely difflotrent then!

> poor halfbrain

Nice signature Maciej!

Den 16.09.2023 06:25, skrev Richard Hertz:
>
> I told you that section 3.3.1.1 is LEGACY (from Oct1993 UNCLASSIFIED ICD-GPS-200 Rev. C, Initial Release), but you prefer your
> historic fairy tale.
>
> This section still is maintained in further releases, like IS-GPS-200M (13 Apr 2021)

The last update is IS-GPS-200N (01 AUG 2022)
https://www.gps.gov/technical/icwg/IS-GPS-200N.pdf

3.3.1.1 Frequency plan:
"The carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall
be coherently derived from a common frequency source within
the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears
to an observer on the ground -- is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier
frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer
located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic
effects.
The clock rates are offset by Δf/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent
to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset
by a Δf = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz."

So the frequency standard in a GPS satellite is still
10.2299999954326 MHz when the satellite is in service.

But note that "as it appears to an observer on the ground"
must not be taken literally, there is no way you can directly
measure the frequency of L1 and L2 on the ground because the Doppler
shift due to the motion of the satellites will always be order of
magnitudes higher than the gravitational frequency shift.

The _only_ reason why the reference frequency is adjusted down
is to make the SV-clock run synchronously with the GPS coordinated time.

> but what should count for your understanding is: >
> 20.3.3.3.3.1 User Algorithm for SV Clock Correction. The polynomial defined in the following allows the user to
> determine the effective SV PRN code phase offset referenced to the phase center of the antennas (Δtsv) with respect
> to GPS system time (t) at the time of data transmission. The coefficients transmitted in subframe 1 describe the
> offset apparent to the two-frequency user for the interval of time in which the parameters are transmitted. This
> estimated correction accounts for the deterministic SV clock error characteristics of bias, drift and aging, as well as
> for the SV implementation characteristics of group delay bias and mean differential group delay.

Note that the SV-clocks are never corrected while
the SVs are in service.

20.3.3.3.3.1:

The corrected time is: t = t_SV - Δt_SV
where:
t = GPS system time
t_SV = the time shown by the SV-clock.
Δt_SV = the clock correction.

The clock correction is calculated in the receiver with
the clock correction parameters transmitted by the SV.

Δt_SV = a_f0 + a_f1(t - t_oc) + a_f2 (t - t_oc)² + Δ_tR
where:
a_f0 = clock offset (error of t_SV at the time t_oc)
a_f1 = rate error of the SV clock at the time t_oc
a_f1 = rate of change of the rate error at the time t_oc
t_OC = the GPS-time when the parameters were measured by
the monitoring stations (before they were uploaded)
Δ_tR = a relativistic correction (see below)

>
> Since these coefficients do not include corrections for relativistic effects, THE USER'S EQUIPMENT must determine the
> requisite relativistic correction. Accordingly, the of offset given below includes a term to perform this function.

Note that the SV-clocks are never corrected while the SVs
are in service. So t_SV will typically be (several tens of)
microseconds off sync, and the clock offset a_f0 will be equivalent.

However, since the a_f0 is stored in a register with a limited number
of bits, The "clock offset" must be less than ~ ± 1 ms, or the register
containing it will overflow.

If the rate of the SV-clock was not GR-corrected, it would be
more than +1 ms off sync after ~25 days, and the "clock offset"
would overflow, and the GPS wouldn't work

NOTE THIS:
# Since the GPS works, this prove that the rate of the SV-clock
# _must_ be corrected by the factor -4.4647E-10.
# This is the significant "GR-correction" of the clock rate done
# before the satellite is set in service.

If the orbit of the SV is circular (which it initially is),
the relativistic correction Δ_tR is zero.

But with time the orbit tends to be eccentric (caused by sun, moon).
Since this means that both the speed of the satellite and its altitude
will vary with the position in the orbit, the exact GR-correction will
also vary a little from the factor -4.4647E-10 with the position in the
orbit.

Δ_tR will normally be very small.

> Δ_tR = F e √A sin E_k
>
> F = -4.442807633E-10 s/√m

OK

> √A = square root of semimajor axis of the satellite orbit : 4492.458 √m , for current 31 active SV.

You have set A = altitude of SV,but A = the radius of the orbit.
A = 26.56E6 m
, √A = 5055.6899 √m

> e = space vehicle orbit eccentricity : 0.008573316 , for current 31 active SV
> E_k = eccentric anomaly of the GPS satellite orbit.
>
> sin E_k = √(1 - e^2) sin θ /(1 + e cos θ) ; θ: True Anomaly (ANGLE BETWEEN EARTH AND THE SV)

Since the eccentricity is very small, E_k and θ will be almost equal.
E_k will always go from 0 to 2π during an orbit, obviously.

Δ_tR = e⋅F⋅√A⋅sin(E_k)
= e⋅(-4.442807633E-10 s/√m)⋅(5055.6899 √m)⋅sin(E_k)
= e⋅(-2.24614E-06)⋅sin(E_k) s

Valid values for the eccentricity e are 0.00 to 0.03

So with e = 0.03 and E_k = 90° or 270° so sin(E_k) = ±1, we get:

Δ_tR = ±0.03⋅(-2.24614E-06)s = ∓67.38437255232446 ns

However, 0.03 is probably an unrealistic high value for e.
So Δ_tR will probably seldom be higher than few ns.
And the average is always zero, obviously.

>
> THIS IS ONE REASON BY WHICH RELATIVISTIC CORRECTIONS MUST BE MADE IN THE GPS RECEIVER!
>
> Assuming θ = 45° or 135°, the Δ_tR offset is -12,02637 nsec.
>
> When compared with the rest of parameters in Δt_SV, they are MUCH GREATER and increase with TIME!
>
> Δt_R DOES NOT INCREASE WITH TIME!

But it varies sinusoidal during an orbit.

>
> So, stop being so stupid indoctrinated relativist and LEARN!
>
> The offset Δt_SV can be HUNDREDS OF MICROSECONDS, and have to be discounted in the GPS receiver.
>
> Learn by yourself or go back to the university. But stop believing MYTHOLOGY!
>
> Relativity HAS NO IMPACT IN GPS OR ANY OTHER GNSS.
>

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:09:45 PM UTC-3, Paul B. Andersen wrote:

<snip>

> So the frequency standard in a GPS satellite is still
> 10.2299999954326 MHz when the satellite is in service.
>
> But note that "as it appears to an observer on the ground"
> must not be taken literally, there is no way you can directly
> measure the frequency of L1 and L2 on the ground because the Doppler
> shift due to the motion of the satellites will always be order of
> magnitudes higher than the gravitational frequency shift.
>
> The _only_ reason why the reference frequency is adjusted down
> is to make the SV-clock run synchronously with the GPS coordinated time.
> > but what should count for your understanding is: >

<snip>

You, conveniently, miss the point that the GPS SV master XO is running at 10.2299999954326 MHz, which means that
a second is computed as being a FALSE SECOND lasting 0.999999999553529 seconds.

Meanwhile, the GPS receiver master XO, frequency synchronized with FLL (for short term drifts) uses a TRUE SECOND
lasting 1.00000000000000 seconds.

On each SV GPS, a local difference (that spread to all computers and other subsystems) compute a GPS orbital day as
during 86399.9999614 seconds for 86400 units of second/day.

And this difference CONTAMINATES everything that relativists were claiming to be solved, within each satellite.

And, curiously, it injects a cumulative deficit of -0,000038575105304 sec (the famous 38.5 us/day) that the offset was supposed
to correct. And this cumulative "error" affects the calculations of every parameter in the navigation system, irradiated every 12.5 min.

So, you "solved" the timing problem AT THE RECEIVER, but translated the problem to the satellite itself.

How do you explain this paradox, relativist?

Which magic explanation will you pull out to explain this huge contradiction? GPS clock is reset from 1 to 3 times from Earth Control
Station, to maintain the entire GPS constellation in sync, within 45 nanoseconds.

But, what is done to cancel the cumulative shift in orbiting master clocks?

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 12:12:51 AM UTC-3, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:09:45 PM UTC-3, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > So the frequency standard in a GPS satellite is still
> > 10.2299999954326 MHz when the satellite is in service.
> >
> > But note that "as it appears to an observer on the ground"
> > must not be taken literally, there is no way you can directly
> > measure the frequency of L1 and L2 on the ground because the Doppler
> > shift due to the motion of the satellites will always be order of
> > magnitudes higher than the gravitational frequency shift.
> >
> > The _only_ reason why the reference frequency is adjusted down
> > is to make the SV-clock run synchronously with the GPS coordinated time..
> > > but what should count for your understanding is: >
> <snip>
>
> You, conveniently, miss the point that the GPS SV master XO is running at 10.2299999954326 MHz, which means that
> a second is computed as being a FALSE SECOND lasting 0.999999999553529 seconds.
>
> Meanwhile, the GPS receiver master XO, frequency synchronized with FLL (for short term drifts) uses a TRUE SECOND
> lasting 1.00000000000000 seconds.
>
> On each SV GPS, a local difference (that spread to all computers and other subsystems) compute a GPS orbital day as
> during 86399.9999614 seconds for 86400 units of second/day.
>
> And this difference CONTAMINATES everything that relativists were claiming to be solved, within each satellite.
>
> And, curiously, it injects a cumulative deficit of -0,000038575105304 sec (the famous 38.5 us/day) that the offset was supposed
> to correct. And this cumulative "error" affects the calculations of every parameter in the navigation system, irradiated every 12.5 min.
>
> So, you "solved" the timing problem AT THE RECEIVER, but translated the problem to the satellite itself.
>
> How do you explain this paradox, relativist?
>
> Which magic explanation will you pull out to explain this huge contradiction? GPS clock is reset from 1 to 3 times from Earth Control
> Station, to maintain the entire GPS constellation in sync, within 45 nanoseconds.
>
> But, what is done to cancel the cumulative shift in orbiting master clocks?

I forgot to write this example, in the case of 45 nsec error in Ts-Tu, fundamental for the true ranging:

1) Assume that the receiver is located at coordinates: φ=45°3’48”, λ=7°39’41”, h=0 m, referenced in WGS84.
This is converted to ECEF coordinates as (4472328,356 m, 601613,8348 m, 4492322,559 m).
But this position is subject to errors in ranging, which depend on ECEF coordinates of GPS satellites.

2) The "error" of 45 nsec in calculation of the true range to each satellite, by c (Ts - Tu), affects the ECEF xyz of each one.
And this error is retrofitted to the user ECEF coordinates position by an error xyz of (26.78 m, 5,78 m, 22,67m).

Who and how does the due correction? The Control Center, the GPS SV, the GPS receiver?

3) In case you have any doubt, here are the initial GPS SV ECEF coordinates (2012/04/06 at 8:53:59 am) that provided the user location:

SV Xᵥ (ECEF, m) Yᵥ (ECEF, m) Zᵥ (ECEF, m) RANGE Rᵥ(m)
13 23867142 -3892848 10941892 20927397
17 21493427 -15051899 3348924 23152919
20 14198355 13792955 17579451 20973317
23 18493110 4172696 18776775 20331762

I suggest that you use the true solution by solving four equations by linearization methods, which eliminate square terms
and left four linear equations with three incognitos (the user xyz ECEF position).

(xᵥ − x)² + (yᵥ − y)² + (zᵥ − z)² = Rᵥ² , for v = 1, 2, 3, 4

***********************************************

GPS civilian use with L1 is widely known, by the narrative of relativists and else, of having a CER (error radius) lower than 4 meters.

But this is not true, unless relativistic magic is being used.

Then, Paul: tell me WHAT EXACTLY is provided by relativity to cure the bad things in GPS, and why Einstein is glorified "ad nauseaum"
as having the most important achievement in GPS, besides particle accelerator physics?

I can enjoy a good story.

On Tuesday, 19 September 2023 at 03:09:45 UTC+2, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 16.09.2023 06:25, skrev Richard Hertz:
> >
> > I told you that section 3.3.1.1 is LEGACY (from Oct1993 UNCLASSIFIED ICD-GPS-200 Rev. C, Initial Release), but you prefer your
> > historic fairy tale.
> >
> > This section still is maintained in further releases, like IS-GPS-200M (13 Apr 2021)
> The last update is IS-GPS-200N (01 AUG 2022)
> https://www.gps.gov/technical/icwg/IS-GPS-200N.pdf
>
> 3.3.1.1 Frequency plan:
> "The carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall
> be coherently derived from a common frequency source within
> the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears
> to an observer on the ground -- is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier
> frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer
> located in the SV

How did the author know what "would appear" somewhere
he has never been to someone else?
What would appear doesn't matter, anyway. What matters is
the measurement result. "Would" indeed be matching your
ideological Shit if the clocks there were set to your SI
ideological idiocy.
Are they, poor trash?

On Friday, 15 September 2023 at 15:12:46 UTC+1, Paparios wrote:
> El viernes, 15 de septiembre de 2023 a las 9:00:40 UTC-3, Maciej Wozniak escribió:
> > On Friday, 15 September 2023 at 00:13:53 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
> >
> > > > Excuse me, stupid Mike, are GPS clocks
> > > > set to your 9 192 631 770 ISO idiocy?
> > > Yes, poor quarterbrain. But indirectly, of course. They are set to a
> > > frequency (9192631774.1)
> >
> > So, for a relativistic idiot setting it
> > to 9192631774.1 is an indirect
> > way of setting it to 9 192 631 770.
> > Isn't it sweet?
> > That's what The Shit's brainwashing
> > is doing with the brains of its victims.
> GPS clocks are set to tick, in orbit, at 10.2299999954326 MHz (see document IS-GPS-200M, section 3.3.1.1). Those signals are received on the ground at 10.23 MHz.

Einstein predicted ticking clocks would show time dilation. He was referring
to the mechanical ticking pocket watch in his waistcoat.
Einstein did not predict that resonant systems (like atoms) would be effected
by GR. Seeing as the atomic clock, essentially a resonating atom
wasnt even considered in 1915.
Relativists mistake is to pretend that vibrations, resonance, oscillation,
damping, and effects from external forces like gravity on resonating systems
is the same as an abstract philosophical construct like “time” that relativists
refer to ad nauseam and falsely pretend is related to resonance.
Look at this paper for instance:

https://repository.lib.ncsu.edu/bitstream/handle/1840.20/31281/K11_2.pdf?sequence=1#:~:text=The%20natural%20frequency%20is%20a%20decay%20function%20of%20the%20column,the%20gravity%20are%20shifted%20downward.

Does it or does it not specify that increased force...like the gravitational force,
reduces the natural resonant frequency of the graphite?

Den 19.09.2023 05:12, skrev Richard Hertz:
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 10:09:45 PM UTC-3, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> So the frequency standard in a GPS satellite is still
>> 10.2299999954326 MHz when the satellite is in service.
>>
>> But note that "as it appears to an observer on the ground"
>> must not be taken literally, there is no way you can directly
>> measure the frequency of L1 and L2 on the ground because the Doppler
>> shift due to the motion of the satellites will always be order of
>> magnitudes higher than the gravitational frequency shift.
>>
>> The last update is IS-GPS-200N (01 AUG 2022)
>> https://www.gps.gov/technical/icwg/IS-GPS-200N.pdf
>>
>> 3.3.1.1 Frequency plan:
>> "The carrier frequencies for the L1 and L2 signals shall
>> be coherently derived from a common frequency source within
>> the SV. The nominal frequency of this source -- as it appears
>> to an observer on the ground -- is 10.23 MHz. The SV carrier
>> frequency and clock rates -- as they would appear to an observer
>> located in the SV -- are offset to compensate for relativistic
>> effects.
>> The clock rates are offset by Δf/f = -4.4647E-10, equivalent
>> to a change in the P-code chipping rate of 10.23 MHz offset
>> by a Δf = -4.5674E-3 Hz. This is equal to 10.2299999954326 MHz."
>>
>> So the frequency standard in a GPS satellite is still
>> 10.2299999954326 MHz when the satellite is in service.
>>
>> The _only_ reason why the reference frequency is adjusted down
>> is to make the SV-clock run synchronously with the GPS coordinated time.

>
> You, conveniently, miss the point that the GPS SV master XO is running at 10.2299999954326 MHz, which means that
> a second is computed as being a FALSE SECOND lasting 0.999999999553529 seconds.

Miss it? :-D
Didn't you read the above?

I repeat:
The _only_ reason why the reference frequency is adjusted down
is to make the SV-clock run synchronously with the GPS coordinated time.

The adjusted factor is -4.4647e-10 so the SV-clock will advance
1 GPS-second during (1-4.4647e-10) = 0.9999999995535301 SI-seconds

How is it possible after all this time to stay ignorant of the fact
that this is the very point with the GR-correction?

Read the following (which you snipped).

Note that the SV-clocks are never corrected while the SVs
are in service. So t_SV will typically be (several tens of)
microseconds off sync, and the clock offset a_f0 will be equivalent.

However, since the a_f0 is stored in a register with a limited number
of bits, The "clock offset" must be less than ~ ± 1 ms, or the register
containing it will overflow.

If the rate of the SV-clock was not GR-corrected, it would be
more than +1 ms off sync after ~25 days, and the "clock offset"
would overflow, and the GPS wouldn't work

NOTE THIS:
# Since the GPS works, this prove that the rate of the SV-clock
# _must_ be corrected by the factor -4.4647E-10.
# This is the significant "GR-correction" of the clock rate done
# before the satellite is set in service.

Richard, these are FACTS!

It is pretty stupid to insist, as you do, that the GPS doesn't
work because you think it is constructed wrong.

You can, and probably will, snip this again,
but the fact that GPS works won't go away.

>
> Meanwhile, the GPS receiver master XO, frequency synchronized with FLL (for short term drifts) uses a TRUE SECOND
> lasting 1.00000000000000 seconds.

Nonsense.
There is no precise reference frequency (or second) in the receiver-

The PLL in the receiver is phase locked to the PRN signal from
the satellite. This is an extremely complex system.

A receiver may receive the signal from 12 (or more) satellites at
the same time. All SVs are transmitting at the same frequencies,
and since the satellites all are moving at different speed
relative to the receiver, the L1 and L2 signals will be
Doppler shifted differently.
The resulting signal will be very much like noise.

Now the receiver has to:
- Recover the 12 different L1 and L2 signals,
- Recover the 12 D(t) signals.
- Recover the 12 PRN signals.
- Recover the 12 Data signals.
- Identify the 12 satellites by correlating the 12 PRN signals,
to the 64 known PRN sequences for the satellites.

>
> On each SV GPS, a local difference (that spread to all computers and other subsystems) compute a GPS orbital day as
> during 86399.9999614 seconds for 86400 units of second/day.
>
> And this difference CONTAMINATES everything that relativists were claiming to be solved, within each satellite.
>
> And, curiously, it injects a cumulative deficit of -0,000038575105304 sec (the famous 38.5 us/day) that the offset was supposed
> to correct. And this cumulative "error" affects the calculations of every parameter in the navigation system, irradiated every 12.5 min.
>
> So, you "solved" the timing problem AT THE RECEIVER, but translated the problem to the satellite itself.
>
> How do you explain this paradox, relativist?

I think it is your job to solve the paradox that
a system which can't work does work.

But honestly, Richard.
You have demonstrated such a huge ignorance and confusion
that I don't know why I bother to try to learn you something.

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

Den 19.09.2023 06:08, skrev Richard Hertz:>
> Then, Paul: tell me WHAT EXACTLY is provided by relativity to cure the bad things in GPS,

Easy.
Relativity tells us that the clock in the satellite must
be adjusted by the factor -4.4647E-10 to stay in sync
with GPS coordinated time.

But since no clock is infinitely precise, and the SV-clocks
are never corrected while the SVs are in service, the time
reported by the satellite must be corrected in the receiver
by the correction polynomial sent from the SV.
The first order parameter a_f0 is the "clock offset",
the error of the SV_clock.

Since a_f0 is stored in a register with a limited number
of bits, The "clock offset" must be less than ~ ± 1 ms,
or the register containing it will overflow.

If the rate of the SV-clock was not GR-corrected, it would be
more than +1 ms off sync after ~25 days, the "clock offset"
would overflow, and the GPS wouldn't work

NOTE THIS:
# Since the GPS works, this prove that the rate of the SV-clock
# _must_ be corrected by the factor -4.4647E-10.
# This is the significant "GR-correction" of the clock rate done
# before the satellite is set in service.

But you obviously know this, Richard. Or don't you?

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 7:56:24 AM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 19.09.2023 06:08, skrev Richard Hertz:>
> > Then, Paul: tell me WHAT EXACTLY is provided by relativity to cure the bad things in GPS,
> Easy.
> Relativity tells us that the clock in the satellite must
> be adjusted by the factor -4.4647E-10 to stay in sync
> with GPS coordinated time.
>
> But since no clock is infinitely precise, and the SV-clocks
> are never corrected while the SVs are in service, the time
> reported by the satellite must be corrected in the receiver
> by the correction polynomial sent from the SV.
> The first order parameter a_f0 is the "clock offset",
> the error of the SV_clock.
>
> Since a_f0 is stored in a register with a limited number
> of bits, The "clock offset" must be less than ~ ± 1 ms,
> or the register containing it will overflow.
>
> If the rate of the SV-clock was not GR-corrected, it would be
> more than +1 ms off sync after ~25 days, the "clock offset"
> would overflow, and the GPS wouldn't work

Now, it appears that at one time, the designers of Galileo envisioned
performing all clock corrections via software in the correction
polynomial, and the onboard atomic clocks would run without any
GR correction. Galileo's a_f0 parameter has many more bits than
the equivalent parameter in GPS (I'm not bothering to look this up,
Richard, you can do this yourself) so that theoretically a Galileo
satellite could go for years without being reset. The GR correction
would be merely one correction among many other corrections
that needed to be accounted for in the correction polynomial.

Several years ago, I asked the question on this forum whether Galileo
clocks were actually being run uncorrected, because even with the
increased length of a_f0, Galileo's would still need to be reset every
several years. It did not make sense to me that any system should
be designed to *require* resets, even if spaced by several years.
Several days later, by analyzing the available log files, Paul answered
my question. Even the Galileo clocks, although theoretically not
needing to require a hardware GR correction to function properly,
were in fact adjusted to stay in sync with Earthbound clocks.

> NOTE THIS:
> # Since the GPS works, this prove that the rate of the SV-clock
> # _must_ be corrected by the factor -4.4647E-10.
> # This is the significant "GR-correction" of the clock rate done
> # before the satellite is set in service.
> But you obviously know this, Richard. Or don't you?
>
> --
> Paul
>
> https://paulba.no/