https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm

The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.

On a sunny day (Sun, 30 Jul 2023 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in
<9100079d-107b-4c9c-9d7a-b063b9185f57n@googlegroups.com>:

>https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>
>The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER
>in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.

http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
Milancovich cycles..

Solar activity has effect too, we are nearing a sunspot maximum:
https://www.weather.gov/news/201509-solar-cycle

On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>
> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.

It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of agriculture as far as anybody knows.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>>
>> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
>
>It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of agriculture as far as anybody knows.

But the instrumentation has changed radically. We don't really know.

On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>
> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.

I think Greenland was green when the Vikings settled it in the 10th century.. They are famous for thoroughly destroying the ecosystem and turning it into a wasteland. Today it is a dump with lots of people on government welfare and a very high population of drunks. The whole place is like the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Denmark has a very poor track record managing things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland

On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 12:18:29 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
> >>
> >> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
> >
> >It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of agriculture as far as anybody knows.
> But the instrumentation has changed radically. We don't really know.

They have archeological evidence from the early human settlements.

On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sun, 30 Jul 2023 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Flyguy
> <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> <9100079d-107b-4c9c...@googlegroups.com>:
> >https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
> >
> >The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER
> >in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
> http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
> Milancovich cycles..
>
> Solar activity has effect too, we are nearing a sunspot maximum:
> https://www.weather.gov/news/201509-solar-cycle

That may be, but it's better to enter a sunspot maximum with less atmospheric CO2 than more.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 12:18:29?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>> >>
>> >> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
>> >
>> >It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of agriculture as far as anybody knows.
>> But the instrumentation has changed radically. We don't really know.
>
>They have archeological evidence from the early human settlements.

Cro-magnins had temperature loggers?

On a sunny day (Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in
<0b65083a-7768-4896-b44f-ba4918708b85n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>>
>> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refut=
>es the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history.=
> It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
>
>It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm =
>it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present =
>are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of =
>agriculture as far as anybody knows.

Google says:
The first human ancestors appeared between five million and seven million years ago,
probably when some apelike creatures in Africa began to walk habitually on two legs.
They were flaking crude stone tools by 2.5 million years ago.
Then some of them spread from Africa into Asia and Europe after two million years ago.

First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago
Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150722144709.htm

The problem with archeology is that we find less and less evidence the more we look back in time
as much is destroyed by the inter-glacial periods.

It is highly likely that before the previous cold and warm periods humans already where culturing plants for food...

I expect the same sort of migration to happen in the future where maybe only small pieces of the world stay habitable
causing a large decreasing world population
UNLESS we can get enough power online to create habitats that can accommodate us, else we would have to move to a different planet...
CO2 is irrelevant.
Underground habitats? Electric light and heating / cooling (also for growing food)?
Nuclear powered?
Or we fail and simply go extinct...
And the ants would have the planet :-) Those sure are having a ball in the garden here...

On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 9:18:29 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of agriculture as far as anybody knows.

> But the instrumentation has changed radically. We don't really know.

Wrong, of course. The instrumentation does NOT define temperature, which
is very much an influence on a variety of phenomena, any of which can
measure the same temperature. Based on dilute gas, or cheese-ripening-rate,
or platinum resistor. We really DO know that a variety of thermometric
appliances measure the same thing.

On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 5:10:56 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:25:47 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 12:18:29?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> >> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
> >> >>
> >> >> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
> >> >
> >> >It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of agriculture as far as anybody knows.
> >> But the instrumentation has changed radically. We don't really know.
> >
> >They have archeological evidence from the early human settlements.
> Cro-magnins had temperature loggers?

Yes, definitely, and the technology was fully documented and included in time capsules yet to be found- probably in the rubble of Atlantis. <j/k>

On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 2:17:02 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <0b65083a-7768-4896...@googlegroups.com>:
> >On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
> >>
> >> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refut=
> >es the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history.> > It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
> >
> >It's not important how warm Earth has been. What's important is a how warm =
> >it's been since mankind started populating it. Temperatures of the present =
> >are significantly in excess of the human experience since the beginning of > >agriculture as far as anybody knows.
> Google says:
> The first human ancestors appeared between five million and seven million years ago,
> probably when some apelike creatures in Africa began to walk habitually on two legs.
> They were flaking crude stone tools by 2.5 million years ago.
> Then some of them spread from Africa into Asia and Europe after two million years ago.

The key word is 'ancestors.' Those creatures were monkeys. They're not around any more because the climate and environmental hazards, things like the sabertooth tiger, killed them off.

>
> First evidence of farming in Mideast 23,000 years ago
> Evidence of earliest small-scale agricultural cultivation
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150722144709.htm
>
> The problem with archeology is that we find less and less evidence the more we look back in time
> as much is destroyed by the inter-glacial periods.
>
> It is highly likely that before the previous cold and warm periods humans already where culturing plants for food...
>
> I expect the same sort of migration to happen in the future where maybe only small pieces of the world stay habitable
> causing a large decreasing world population
> UNLESS we can get enough power online to create habitats that can accommodate us, else we would have to move to a different planet...
> CO2 is irrelevant.
> Underground habitats? Electric light and heating / cooling (also for growing food)?
> Nuclear powered?
>
> Or we fail and simply go extinct...
> And the ants would have the planet :-) Those sure are having a ball in the garden here...

On 31/07/2023 17:56, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 30 Jul 2023 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Flyguy
>> <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> <9100079d-107b-4c9c...@googlegroups.com>:
>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>>>
>>> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER
>>> in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.

>> http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
>> Milancovich cycles..
>>
>> Solar activity has effect too, we are nearing a sunspot maximum:
>> https://www.weather.gov/news/201509-solar-cycle

The effect of sunspot maximum vs minimum on climate is about 0.1% all up.

It is only really a problem for satellites in low Earth orbit when it
fluffs up the upper atmosphere increasing drag (and bombarding them
occasionality with fast particles and shock waves).

> That may be, but it's better to enter a sunspot maximum with less atmospheric CO2 than more.

Sunspot influence is detectable but compared to the huge effects of
orbital eccentricity, angle of tilt and precession of the Earths
rotation combined with the the exact time of perihelion it is noise.

climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/

That is the main driver for very long term climate change 41ky and 100ky
respectively. We are presently in an era where Northern hemisphere
winters with lots of land coincide with perihelion (more or less). This
means warmer winters with less snow than there might otherwise be.

It gets a lot colder when the tables are turned. Snow falling on the
large southern oceans doesn't alter the albedo of the planet. Snow
falling onto the great expanses of northern tundra wilderness does.

Positive feedback from slowly changing the albedo makes a big difference
to the outcome around the polar ice pack in the Northern hemisphere.
Conversely loss of snow pack and glaciers at high latitudes allows the
Earth to absorb more heat. The way things are going the North pole will
be largely ice free in summers before too much longer.

This recent picture of the Fiescher glacier shows just how much the ice
has retreated in Switzerland over the past century (move the slider).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66334788

--
Martin Brown

On a sunny day (Tue, 1 Aug 2023 17:00:02 +0100) it happened Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <uaba64$3muf0$2@dont-email.me>:

>On 31/07/2023 17:56, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 30 Jul 2023 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Flyguy
>>> <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>> <9100079d-107b-4c9c...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>>>>
>>>> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period
>>>> EVER
>>>> in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
>
>>> http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
>>> Milancovich cycles..
>>>
>>> Solar activity has effect too, we are nearing a sunspot maximum:
>>> https://www.weather.gov/news/201509-solar-cycle
>
>The effect of sunspot maximum vs minimum on climate is about 0.1% all up.
>
>It is only really a problem for satellites in low Earth orbit when it
>fluffs up the upper atmosphere increasing drag (and bombarding them
>occasionality with fast particles and shock waves).
>
>> That may be, but it's better to enter a sunspot maximum with less atmospheric CO2 than more.
>
>Sunspot influence is detectable but compared to the huge effects of
>orbital eccentricity, angle of tilt and precession of the Earths
>rotation combined with the the exact time of perihelion it is noise.
>
>climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/
>
>That is the main driver for very long term climate change 41ky and 100ky
>respectively. We are presently in an era where Northern hemisphere
>winters with lots of land coincide with perihelion (more or less). This
>means warmer winters with less snow than there might otherwise be.
>
>It gets a lot colder when the tables are turned. Snow falling on the
>large southern oceans doesn't alter the albedo of the planet. Snow
>falling onto the great expanses of northern tundra wilderness does.
>
>Positive feedback from slowly changing the albedo makes a big difference
>to the outcome around the polar ice pack in the Northern hemisphere.
>Conversely loss of snow pack and glaciers at high latitudes allows the
>Earth to absorb more heat. The way things are going the North pole will
>be largely ice free in summers before too much longer.
>
>This recent picture of the Fiescher glacier shows just how much the ice
>has retreated in Switzerland over the past century (move the slider).
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66334788

Its tricky
there was also the 'little ice age', in Europe temperatures were much lower
from around 1300 to 1800 EC
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age
Also here solar radiation has been proposed as cause.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_activity_and_climate
but now they talk about vulcanism:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age_volcanism
Will see where it goes.
Will glowball nuculear war help cool or heat this world?

On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 10:26:49 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 2:39:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
> >
> > The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
> Sewage Sweeper doesn't understand the link he has posted. It just says that a fairly recent interglacial - from "424,000 to 374,000 years ago" was warmer than the one we were were living through when we started burning lots of fossil carbon.
>
> Nobody who knows what they are talking about has actually claimed that we are now "in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history." Some have claimed that this year is shaping up to be the warmest for about 120,000 years, probably referring back to a more recent interglacial.
>
> Everybody knows that the
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum
>
> some 55.5 million years ago was warmer.
>
> It doesn't open any new chapter in the Cold War history book, if one actually existed.
>
> It does reveal how little Sewage Sweeper knows about what he is talking about, but that has been obvious for a while.
>
> --
> Bil Sloman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, we are NOT talking about 55 million years ago, but 0.4 million years ago, which is recent history for the global warming fanatics like yourself. But I expect anyone that can't even spell their own NAME to understand that.

Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 9:24:27 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 12:39:27 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
> >
> > The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
> I think Greenland was green when the Vikings settled it in the 10th century. They are famous for thoroughly destroying the ecosystem and turning it into a wasteland. Today it is a dump with lots of people on government welfare and a very high population of drunks. The whole place is like the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Denmark has a very poor track record managing things.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland

This has ZERO to do with global warming.

On 02/08/2023 02:13, Flyguy wrote:
> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 10:26:49 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman
> wrote:
>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 2:39:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
>>>
>>> The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This
>>> totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period
>>> EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the
>>> Cold War history book.
>> Sewage Sweeper doesn't understand the link he has posted. It just
>> says that a fairly recent interglacial - from "424,000 to 374,000
>> years ago" was warmer than the one we were were living through when
>> we started burning lots of fossil carbon.
>>
>> Nobody who knows what they are talking about has actually claimed
>> that we are now "in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history."
>> Some have claimed that this year is shaping up to be the warmest
>> for about 120,000 years, probably referring back to a more recent
>> interglacial.
>>
>> Everybody knows that the
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum
>>
>>
>>
some 55.5 million years ago was warmer.
>>
>> It doesn't open any new chapter in the Cold War history book, if
>> one actually existed.

The secret polar bases were kept very quiet at the time.

>> It does reveal how little Sewage Sweeper knows about what he is
>> talking about, but that has been obvious for a while.
>>
>> -- Bil Sloman, Sydney
>
> Hey Bozo, we are NOT talking about 55 million years ago, but 0.4
> million years ago, which is recent history for the global warming
> fanatics like yourself. But I expect anyone that can't even spell
> their own NAME to understand that.

The sea level was much higher back then when there was no Greenland ice
shelf on the land and there were no cities to be flooded back then.

AGW deniers will still be pretending that it isn't real and isn't
happening even when the Florida Keys are completely under water. They
rely on the tried and tested tricks that keep the suckers smoking.

--
Martin Brown

On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 9:18:03 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:13:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 10:26:49 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 2:39:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113113.htm
> > > >
> > > > The evidence is "bulletproof" according to scientists. This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history. It also opens another chapter in the Cold War history book.
> > > Sewage Sweeper doesn't understand the link he has posted. It just says that a fairly recent interglacial - from "424,000 to 374,000 years ago" was warmer than the one we were were living through when we started burning lots of fossil carbon.
> > >
> > > Nobody who knows what they are talking about has actually claimed that we are now "in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history." Some have claimed that this year is shaping up to be the warmest for about 120,000 years, probably referring back to a more recent interglacial.
> > >
> > > Everybody knows that the
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum
> > >
> > > some 55.5 million years ago was warmer.
> > >
> > > It doesn't open any new chapter in the Cold War history book, if one actually existed.
> > >
> > > It does reveal how little Sewage Sweeper knows about what he is talking about, but that has been obvious for a while.
> >
> > Hey Bozo, we are NOT talking about 55 million years ago, but 0.4 million years ago, which is recent history for the global warming fanatics like yourself.
> Your statement was "This totally refutes the claim that we are now in the warmest period EVER in Earth's history"'.
>
> That does include an event that happened 55 million years ago, even if you seem to imagine that it doesn't.
>
> There nothing fanatical about recognising that anthopogenic global warming is actually happening. The fanatics are the people who continue to deny it. They also seem to think that that Donald Trump knows what he is talking about.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51213003
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, people might not deny "anthropogenic global warming" if there were actual scientific evidence that supported it.

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 9:47:58 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 9:18:03 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

> > There nothing fanatical about recognising that anthopogenic global warming is actually happening. The fanatics are the people who continue to deny it. They also seem to think that that Donald Trump knows what he is talking about.
> >
> > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51213003

> Hey ....people might not deny "anthropogenic global warming" if there were actual scientific evidence that supported it.

Oh, we have freedom of speech; all kinds of crackpots keep spouting words.
The 'people might not deny' phrase is... a fantasy scenario in these United States; there's
different rules in Russia, North Korea, etc.