Exploring the origins of life
A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> Exploring the origins of life
> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm

Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at Max Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about how what people always knew to be true will proceed.

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> Exploring the origins of life
>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>
>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at Max Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about how what people always knew to be true will proceed.

The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.

On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
<cjbtci11e55r1mrodtgh5esqngvp78tlve@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> Exploring the origins of life
>>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>>
>>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at Max
>>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about how
>>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
>
>The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
>complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
>cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.

Look at it like the modern cell-phone
Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time
we are part of the mechanism
Its simple.
What's next?

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 1:42:18 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin
> <jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
> <cjbtci11e55r1mrod...@4ax.com>:
> >On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>> Exploring the origins of life
> >>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
> >>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
> >>
> >>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at Max
> >>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about how
> >>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
> >
> >The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
> >complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
> >cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.
> Look at it like the modern cell-phone
> Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time
> we are part of the mechanism
> Its simple.
> What's next?

They still have a long way to go. Here is one example of just how complex it gets:

This [brain] circuit detects inflammation in the blood and organizes and regulates the immune response.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230725123050.htm

Also hints at scientific underpinnings of the placebo effect, as well as pointing out the possible dangers of pharmaceutical alteration of brain function, especially as regards all the various types of blockers, inhibitors, and agonists.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 05:42:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
><cjbtci11e55r1mrodtgh5esqngvp78tlve@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> Exploring the origins of life
>>>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>>>
>>>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at Max
>>>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about how
>>>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
>>
>>The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
>>complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
>>cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.
>
>Look at it like the modern cell-phone
>Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time

Cell phones don't design or assemble themselves. They
evolved, but under deliberate intelligent direction.

No muddy puddle will deliver a living cell or a cell phone
by itself.

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 05:54:27 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 1:42:18?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>> <jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
>> <cjbtci11e55r1mrod...@4ax.com>:
>> >On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >>> Exploring the origins of life
>> >>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
>> >>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>> >>
>> >>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at Max
>> >>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about how
>> >>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
>> >
>> >The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
>> >complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
>> >cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.
>> Look at it like the modern cell-phone
>> Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time
>> we are part of the mechanism
>> Its simple.
>> What's next?
>
>They still have a long way to go. Here is one example of just how complex it gets:
>
>This [brain] circuit detects inflammation in the blood and organizes and regulates the immune response.
>
>https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230725123050.htm
>
>Also hints at scientific underpinnings of the placebo effect, as well as pointing out the possible dangers of pharmaceutical alteration of brain function, especially as regards all the various types of blockers, inhibitors, and agonists.

Best to not tinker with a complex mechanism that you don't
understand.

Most drugs are selected through accidental observation.

On a sunny day (Sun, 06 Aug 2023 07:06:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
<r2avci9cbg6c2c8mjafiusac7v8ib94p1b@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 05:42:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
>><cjbtci11e55r1mrodtgh5esqngvp78tlve@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> Exploring the origins of life
>>>>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>>>>
>>>>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at
>>>>Max
>>>>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about
>>>>how
>>>>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
>>>
>>>The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
>>>complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
>>>cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.
>>
>>Look at it like the modern cell-phone
>>Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time
>
>Cell phones don't design or assemble themselves. They
>evolved, but under deliberate intelligent direction.
>
>No muddy puddle will deliver a living cell or a cell phone
>by itself.

You do not get it,
here step by step (AFAWK)
quarks (if starting smaller ask CERN)
protons, neutrons, electrons SELF assemble into atoms
it is a fixed structure, periodic table shows:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
Chemical reactions happen with those atoms, molecules, to create energy, new materials, and living cells.
Living cells SELF assemble into all sorts of life forms.
Lifeforms SELF discover all sort of things / make those like cellphones,
All things organize.. communicate, are coupled..

Its simple.
No religion needed, no hocus pocus.
And it is likely universally everywhere (life) where it can be.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 15:19:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 06 Aug 2023 07:06:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
><r2avci9cbg6c2c8mjafiusac7v8ib94p1b@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 05:42:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
>>><cjbtci11e55r1mrodtgh5esqngvp78tlve@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> Exploring the origins of life
>>>>>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at
>>>>>Max
>>>>>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about
>>>>>how
>>>>>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
>>>>
>>>>The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
>>>>complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
>>>>cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.
>>>
>>>Look at it like the modern cell-phone
>>>Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time
>>
>>Cell phones don't design or assemble themselves. They
>>evolved, but under deliberate intelligent direction.
>>
>>No muddy puddle will deliver a living cell or a cell phone
>>by itself.
>
>You do not get it,

Hand-waving about incremental mutation and selection can't
create an incredibly complex self-reproducing cell. People
have tried to conjecture a path without success.

>here step by step (AFAWK)
>quarks (if starting smaller ask CERN)
>protons, neutrons, electrons SELF assemble into atoms
>it is a fixed structure, periodic table shows:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
>Chemical reactions happen with those atoms, molecules, to create energy, new materials, and living cells.
>Living cells SELF assemble into all sorts of life forms.
>Lifeforms SELF discover all sort of things / make those like cellphones,
>All things organize.. communicate, are coupled..
>
>Its simple.
>No religion needed, no hocus pocus.
>And it is likely universally everywhere (life) where it can be.

If life spontaneously evolves, it evolved in other places
billions of years before Earth formed and cooled off.

Likely they designed us.

On a sunny day (Sun, 6 Aug 2023 05:54:27 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in
<b32d4028-e9f7-4395-9184-c00a3d19b552n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 1:42:18 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin=
>
>> <jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
>> <cjbtci11e55r1mrod...@4ax.com>:
>> >On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> ><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:=
>
>> >>> Exploring the origins of life
>> >>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules in=
>to living structures
>> >>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>> >>
>> >>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known.=
> But with the very clever and imaginative people at Max
>> >>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of =
>legacy observations to give very strong clues about how
>> >>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
>> >
>> >The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
>> >complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
>> >cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.
>> Look at it like the modern cell-phone
>> Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time
>> we are part of the mechanism
>> Its simple.
>> What's next?
>
>They still have a long way to go. Here is one example of just how complex it gets:

We are - like ants in a forest - will likely never 'understand it all'.
OTOH what is happening is totally logical...

On a sunny day (Sun, 06 Aug 2023 08:43:41 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
<ekfvci9dun04uk5qeedefe3bipfcnetsss@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 15:19:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 06 Aug 2023 07:06:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
>><r2avci9cbg6c2c8mjafiusac7v8ib94p1b@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 05:42:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>><alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Aug 2023 13:23:32 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jjlarkinsnipsnip2highlandtechnology.com@> wrote in
>>>><cjbtci11e55r1mrodtgh5esqngvp78tlve@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 12:34:42?AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> Exploring the origins of life
>>>>>>> A new model helps to understand the self-organization of molecules into living structures
>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230804123715.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Very nascent field of research about which absolutely nothing is known. But with the very clever and imaginative people at
>>>>>>Max
>>>>>>Planck Institute, it won't stay that way much longer. Lots and lots of legacy observations to give very strong clues about
>>>>>>how
>>>>>>what people always knew to be true will proceed.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem with explaining life is the irreducable
>>>>>complexity of even the simplest self-replicating DNA-based
>>>>>cell. It all has to work before any of it can work.
>>>>
>>>>Look at it like the modern cell-phone
>>>>Very complex, self-assembled from atoms over time
>>>
>>>Cell phones don't design or assemble themselves. They
>>>evolved, but under deliberate intelligent direction.
>>>
>>>No muddy puddle will deliver a living cell or a cell phone
>>>by itself.
>>
>>You do not get it,
>
>Hand-waving about incremental mutation and selection can't
>create an incredibly complex self-reproducing cell. People
>have tried to conjecture a path without success.

Well that sounds vague
Simple atoms are in fact extremely complicated / complex things we humans (CERN et all) are still trying to
get to the bottom of so to speak.
What they are made of, how they interact, how they form
how many forms there are
Yet those atoms are everywhere...

>>here step by step (AFAWK)
>>quarks (if starting smaller ask CERN)
>>protons, neutrons, electrons SELF assemble into atoms
>>it is a fixed structure, periodic table shows:
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
>>Chemical reactions happen with those atoms, molecules, to create energy, new materials, and living cells.
>>Living cells SELF assemble into all sorts of life forms.
>>Lifeforms SELF discover all sort of things / make those like cellphones,
>>All things organize.. communicate, are coupled..
>>
>>Its simple.
>>No religion needed, no hocus pocus.
>>And it is likely universally everywhere (life) where it can be.
>
>If life spontaneously evolves, it evolved in other places
>billions of years before Earth formed and cooled off.

There are scientists that think there was more than one big-bang, so do I (if it really was a bang that is).
When and where and how these happened and what of it we can detect, is a good question.

>Likely they designed us.

That is circular reasoning.
We are likely (I know this may hurt somebodies ego) just like an atom, logically interaction of forces
from many elementary (not the right word, but OK) particles.
Important is to understand all is connected by forces.
Move an electron here .. a bit later it s felt everywhere else...
communication

You can look at what we call 'universe' as one large organism too.
There must be so much more out there
we could be like a grain of sand that thinks the beach is the universe, never knowing
about oceans and land.

Was just reading this, maybe for the mathematicians here, number theory:
"Scientists uncover a surprising connection between number theory and evolutionary genetics"
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230801131650.htm