On 8/6/2023 11:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 3:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> Steel would be too heavy.  Aluminum might be too soft
>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>
>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>
>>> Limestone?
>>>
>>> <https://www.theclassycottage.com/studio-a-travertine-sphere-6-7-70021.aspx>
>>
>> Oooooo.... that's a good idea!  They don't seem to state a "shipping
>> weight" (to get an idea of it's actual weight).
>>
>> Obviously, the material can be "shaped" but I wonder how practical
>> that is for "random" shaping?  And, how prevalent the tools and
>> skills to do so?
>
> Companies that do e.g. gravestones and memorial monuments might be a good place
> to ask.

Ah, that's a good idea! They can at least do 2D machining of the surfaces.
OTOH, you gotta wonder why most memorials are little more than name, dates
and some token "Loving Father" sort of crap.

On 8/6/2023 4:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 11:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 8/6/2023 3:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>> Steel would be too heavy.  Aluminum might be too soft
>>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>>
>>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>>
>>>> Limestone?
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.theclassycottage.com/studio-a-travertine-sphere-6-7-70021.aspx>
>>>
>>> Oooooo.... that's a good idea!  They don't seem to state a "shipping
>>> weight" (to get an idea of it's actual weight).
>>>
>>> Obviously, the material can be "shaped" but I wonder how practical
>>> that is for "random" shaping?  And, how prevalent the tools and
>>> skills to do so?
>>
>> Companies that do e.g. gravestones and memorial monuments might be a
>> good place to ask.
>
> Ah, that's a good idea!  They can at least do 2D machining of the surfaces.
> OTOH, you gotta wonder why most memorials are little more than name, dates
> and some token "Loving Father" sort of crap.
>
>
Gravestones aren't particularly cheap and like obituaries, they tend to
charge by the word or letter! My late father was interred at the
military cemetery on Cape Cod:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_National_Cemetery>

and there was no charge for that, but there was still a character limit,
can't offhand recall what it was though.

Either way it's difficult to summarize a life in the space available,
for both my parents I tried to come up with something more unique than
the kind of phrases you mention. For Dad I used six words and Mom seven,
New Englanders tend to consider brevity a virtue.

On 8/6/2023 9:54 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 4:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 8/6/2023 11:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 8/6/2023 3:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> Steel would be too heavy.  Aluminum might be too soft
>>>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>>>
>>>>> Limestone?
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.theclassycottage.com/studio-a-travertine-sphere-6-7-70021.aspx>
>>>>
>>>> Oooooo.... that's a good idea!  They don't seem to state a "shipping
>>>> weight" (to get an idea of it's actual weight).
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, the material can be "shaped" but I wonder how practical
>>>> that is for "random" shaping?  And, how prevalent the tools and
>>>> skills to do so?
>>>
>>> Companies that do e.g. gravestones and memorial monuments might be a
>>> good place to ask.
>>
>> Ah, that's a good idea!  They can at least do 2D machining of the
>> surfaces.
>> OTOH, you gotta wonder why most memorials are little more than name,
>> dates
>> and some token "Loving Father" sort of crap.
>>
>>
> Gravestones aren't particularly cheap and like obituaries, they tend to
> charge by the word or letter! My late father was interred at the
> military cemetery on Cape Cod:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_National_Cemetery>
>
> and there was no charge for that, but there was still a character limit,
> can't offhand recall what it was though.
>
> Either way it's difficult to summarize a life in the space available,
> for both my parents I tried to come up with something more unique than
> the kind of phrases you mention. For Dad I used six words and Mom seven,
> New Englanders tend to consider brevity a virtue.

Oops, I meant eight words for Mom. Basically a novel

On 8/6/2023 6:54 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 4:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 8/6/2023 11:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 8/6/2023 3:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> Steel would be too heavy.  Aluminum might be too soft
>>>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>>>
>>>>> Limestone?
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.theclassycottage.com/studio-a-travertine-sphere-6-7-70021.aspx>
>>>>
>>>> Oooooo.... that's a good idea!  They don't seem to state a "shipping
>>>> weight" (to get an idea of it's actual weight).
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, the material can be "shaped" but I wonder how practical
>>>> that is for "random" shaping?  And, how prevalent the tools and
>>>> skills to do so?
>>>
>>> Companies that do e.g. gravestones and memorial monuments might be a good
>>> place to ask.
>>
>> Ah, that's a good idea!  They can at least do 2D machining of the surfaces.
>> OTOH, you gotta wonder why most memorials are little more than name, dates
>> and some token "Loving Father" sort of crap.
>
> Gravestones aren't particularly cheap and like obituaries, they tend to charge
> by the word or letter! My late father was interred at the military cemetery on
> Cape Cod:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_National_Cemetery>
>
> and there was no charge for that, but there was still a character limit, can't
> offhand recall what it was though.

Likely introduced because of space limitations. But, my point was, that they
can also render "graphics" yet don't often do so.

> Either way it's difficult to summarize a life in the space available, for both
> my parents I tried to come up with something more unique than the kind of
> phrases you mention. For Dad I used six words and Mom seven, New Englanders
> tend to consider brevity a virtue.

Why the need to summarizes a life? If you feel like you have to say
something in a public space -- that you've not said to them previously,
in a more intimate space -- you're really just saying it for yourself
so that OTHERS will see your words.

Growing up in New England, I never recall "brevity" being considered
virtuous. More often, the opposite was the norm (ever hear two
new yorkers arguing about where to buy the best slice of pizza?
or ball team? or...)

[Even Mainers are verbose; talking -- face to face -- is more common
back east than in much of the midwest and west, IMO, where ties tend
to be more tentative]

On 8/7/2023 12:06 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 6:54 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 8/6/2023 4:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 8/6/2023 11:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> On 8/6/2023 3:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>>> Steel would be too heavy.  Aluminum might be too soft
>>>>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Limestone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.theclassycottage.com/studio-a-travertine-sphere-6-7-70021.aspx>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oooooo.... that's a good idea!  They don't seem to state a "shipping
>>>>> weight" (to get an idea of it's actual weight).
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, the material can be "shaped" but I wonder how practical
>>>>> that is for "random" shaping?  And, how prevalent the tools and
>>>>> skills to do so?
>>>>
>>>> Companies that do e.g. gravestones and memorial monuments might be a
>>>> good place to ask.
>>>
>>> Ah, that's a good idea!  They can at least do 2D machining of the
>>> surfaces.
>>> OTOH, you gotta wonder why most memorials are little more than name,
>>> dates
>>> and some token "Loving Father" sort of crap.
>>
>> Gravestones aren't particularly cheap and like obituaries, they tend
>> to charge by the word or letter! My late father was interred at the
>> military cemetery on Cape Cod:
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_National_Cemetery>
>>
>> and there was no charge for that, but there was still a character
>> limit, can't offhand recall what it was though.
>
> Likely introduced because of space limitations.  But, my point was, that
> they
> can also render "graphics" yet don't often do so.
>
>> Either way it's difficult to summarize a life in the space available,
>> for both my parents I tried to come up with something more unique than
>> the kind of phrases you mention. For Dad I used six words and Mom
>> seven, New Englanders tend to consider brevity a virtue.
>
> Why the need to summarizes a life?  If you feel like you have to say
> something in a public space -- that you've not said to them previously,
> in a more intimate space -- you're really just saying it for yourself
> so that OTHERS will see your words.

Yep, physical memorials are for the living. Who else would they be for?

> Growing up in New England, I never recall "brevity" being considered
> virtuous.  More often, the opposite was the norm (ever hear two
> new yorkers arguing about where to buy the best slice of pizza?
> or ball team?  or...)

New York is not New England, aaaaaaaaaaaah!

> [Even Mainers are verbose; talking -- face to face -- is more common
> back east than in much of the midwest and west, IMO, where ties tend
> to be more tentative]

You can't get there from here

On 8/6/2023 9:39 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 8/7/2023 12:06 AM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 8/6/2023 6:54 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 8/6/2023 4:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 8/6/2023 11:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>> On 8/6/2023 3:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>>>> Steel would be too heavy.  Aluminum might be too soft
>>>>>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Limestone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.theclassycottage.com/studio-a-travertine-sphere-6-7-70021.aspx>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oooooo.... that's a good idea!  They don't seem to state a "shipping
>>>>>> weight" (to get an idea of it's actual weight).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously, the material can be "shaped" but I wonder how practical
>>>>>> that is for "random" shaping?  And, how prevalent the tools and
>>>>>> skills to do so?
>>>>>
>>>>> Companies that do e.g. gravestones and memorial monuments might be a good
>>>>> place to ask.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, that's a good idea!  They can at least do 2D machining of the surfaces.
>>>> OTOH, you gotta wonder why most memorials are little more than name, dates
>>>> and some token "Loving Father" sort of crap.
>>>
>>> Gravestones aren't particularly cheap and like obituaries, they tend to
>>> charge by the word or letter! My late father was interred at the military
>>> cemetery on Cape Cod:
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_National_Cemetery>
>>>
>>> and there was no charge for that, but there was still a character limit,
>>> can't offhand recall what it was though.
>>
>> Likely introduced because of space limitations.  But, my point was, that they
>> can also render "graphics" yet don't often do so.
>>
>>> Either way it's difficult to summarize a life in the space available, for
>>> both my parents I tried to come up with something more unique than the kind
>>> of phrases you mention. For Dad I used six words and Mom seven, New
>>> Englanders tend to consider brevity a virtue.
>>
>> Why the need to summarizes a life?  If you feel like you have to say
>> something in a public space -- that you've not said to them previously,
>> in a more intimate space -- you're really just saying it for yourself
>> so that OTHERS will see your words.
>
> Yep, physical memorials are for the living. Who else would they be for?

Is there something wrong with your *memory* that you need a
physical manifestation of an event to "remind you"? I've not
visited the gravesites of any of the folks I knew (as I've lived
in many parts of the country and traveling JUST to visit a
gravesite is kinda silly). Yet, I vividly remember them,
our times together, etc.

And, I suspect they would be happier for that (cuz I can do it as
often as they come to mind!) than the fact that I put a few pebbles
on their headstone...

"Country clubs and cemeteries, the biggest wasters of prime real estate"
-- Al Czervik

>> Growing up in New England, I never recall "brevity" being considered
>> virtuous.  More often, the opposite was the norm (ever hear two
>> new yorkers arguing about where to buy the best slice of pizza?
>> or ball team?  or...)
>
> New York is not New England, aaaaaaaaaaaah!

Repeat for Boston. Central Connecticut. Vermont. New Hampshire
("north boston").

A visit to the North End would find folks standing out on the sidewalk
chatting about <whatever>. Buying a piece of Caciocavallo would entail
a suitable commentary about merits wrt Provolone -- and the folks in
line behind you chiming in with *their* opinions!

That's not as common in the West. People tend to stick to themselves.
Some appear clumsy when "confronted" with conversation. SWMBO notes
that one of our neighbors never acknowledges anyone's presence (unless
she's had a bit to drink and then wants to moan about her dead son)

It's more unusual to find people with "deep roots" than back east.

>> [Even Mainers are verbose; talking -- face to face -- is more common
>> back east than in much of the midwest and west, IMO, where ties tend
>> to be more tentative]
>
> You can't get there from here

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 9:12:23 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

> Can ceramics be (easily/economically) machined? I know they
> can be formed in molds -- which would seem the easier way
> to embed features.
>
> OTOH, I believe there is shrinkage from that process -- which
> might impact repeatability (?)

Fired ceramics are traditionally hollow, because they have to vent moisture or they
deform and crack. A solid sphere is gonna take weeks of air drying before you'd even
want to try firing it.

Quicker to use plaster of paris.

For metals, casting a solid sphere is likewise thermal-stress-inducing; more suitable would be sintering
of powdered starting material. Hot-press sintering is even better, but takes special apparatus.

On 8/6/2023 10:18 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 9:12:23 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>
>> Can ceramics be (easily/economically) machined? I know they
>> can be formed in molds -- which would seem the easier way
>> to embed features.
>>
>> OTOH, I believe there is shrinkage from that process -- which
>> might impact repeatability (?)
>
> Fired ceramics are traditionally hollow, because they have to vent moisture or they
> deform and crack. A solid sphere is gonna take weeks of air drying before you'd even
> want to try firing it.

You wouldn't want to make a solid sphere and then machine it;
the advantage to forming in a mold is that you would SKIP the
machining stage and just mold the features that you wanted
(with some potential post-processing to clean them up)

> Quicker to use plaster of paris.
>
> For metals, casting a solid sphere is likewise thermal-stress-inducing; more suitable would be sintering
> of powdered starting material. Hot-press sintering is even better, but takes special apparatus.

On 06/08/2023 08:53, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/5/2023 9:00 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>> Steel would be too heavy. Aluminum might be too soft
>>> (too easily marred)
>>>
>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144428340712 ?
>
> That gives me an idea of what the sphere bitrex mentioned might weigh.
>
> And, if "stone" proves to be the right option, then I can just
> wait for the Gem & Mineral Show, this winter, to see what I can pick up
> locally (let the seller come to me instead of the other way around)

Stones of that size would be expensive. Though sphere grinding machines
for making spheres of rock crystal and the like are big with crystal
healers (and glass spheres I think are available on eBay for a price).

If you are prepared to mess around a bit defect free concrete or U-crete
might be a good fit. The latter was a product that I thought never
really took off the way it should have done. Polyurethane bound concrete
tough enough to do instant repairs on runways (but AFAIK it sank without
trace). Turns out it is still around as an expensive flooring material.

https://www.master-builders-solutions.com/en-au/products/ucrete

Defect free concrete was strong enough to make car suspension springs
out of but processing again was fiddly and I think sank without trace.

http://concrete.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ultra-high-strength-concrete.pdf

--
Martin Brown

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 19:33:07 +0200, jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please>
wrote:

>On 2023-08-06 18:33, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:

<about granite balls>

>> Anyone measured the radioactivity of these products?
>>
>> Granite emits radon, beta and gamma radiation. The amount is normally very
>> low but easily detectable.
>
>Radiation from granite is no issue unless you're living on a mountain's
>worth of the stuff. And even then. It's not because some granite formations
>emit radiation that all do.

Not much an issue if you live on solid granite.

Things get worse if you live on a gravel ridge formed during the last
ice age when glacial ice moving on solid granite. Sand and gravel has
a large area to volume ratio and the radon escapes easily and also
penetrates through the gravel.

If your house is on such ridge, you may have to make a radon well
below the house and use a pump to suck out the radon before it enters
the house.

To detect if radon is a problem, a piece of film in a box is kept in
the house for a month or two. If the film is exposed to radiation it
becomes dark. This is a cheap method to survey a large number of
houses in suspected areas.

On 06/08/2023 19:37, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> Radiation from granite is no issue unless you're living on a mountain's
>> worth of the stuff. And even then. It's not because some granite
>> formations emit radiation that all do.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
> Radon gas from granite collects in enclosed spaces like basements. It is
> extremely dangerous and causes lung cancer. See
>
> Radiation and Health Effects
>
> Most cancers from radon are produced by radon daughter decay products
> (polonium, 3 isotopes; bismuth, 1 isotope; and lead, 3 isotopes) adhering
> to the delicate cell lining and passageways leading to the lungs.
>
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceut
> ical-science/radon-daughter

It generally only reaches danger levels when low pressure systems pull
more of it out of the ground and in badly ventilated low lying spaces
like cellars with dirt floors.

> Thorium in Thorium Molten Salt Reactors also has dangerous decay products
> that include radon. See
>
> The radioactive series of thorium-232
>
> https://www.ld-didactic.de/software/524221en/Content/Appendix/Th232Series.h
> tm
>
> If you are living or working in a basement somewhere, you may consider
> buying a Radon detector, such as sold on Amazon:
>
> https://www.google.ca/search?q=radon+detector

It is probably only worth worrying about it if you live on granite or
basalt rock though or soils derived from them. The real one to worry
about is the longer lived Rn222 which is a part of the U238 Th234/Th230
decay chain. The classical radium emanation. Certain parts of my old
physics department had to be specially cleaned in the 1950's due to
early experiments on radioactivity.

There is around a 2ppm of uranium in a lot of crustal rocks - decent
quality mineable ore is incredibly rare though. Back when I did ultra
trace analysis we were forbidden from showing VIPs uranium in tapwater
because our customers (especially the water companies) didn't like it.

--
Martin Brown

On 2023-08-07 10:53, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 06/08/2023 19:37, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
>> jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> Radiation from granite is no issue unless you're living on a
>>> mountain's worth of the stuff. And even then. It's not because
>>> some granite formations emit radiation that all do.
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>
>> Radon gas from granite collects in enclosed spaces like basements.
>> It is extremely dangerous and causes lung cancer. See
>>
>> Radiation and Health Effects
>>
>> Most cancers from radon are produced by radon daughter decay
>> products (polonium, 3 isotopes; bismuth, 1 isotope; and lead, 3
>> isotopes) adhering to the delicate cell lining and passageways
>> leading to the lungs.
>>
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceut
>>
>>
ical-science/radon-daughter
>
> It generally only reaches danger levels when low pressure systems
> pull more of it out of the ground and in badly ventilated low lying
> spaces like cellars with dirt floors.
>
>> Thorium in Thorium Molten Salt Reactors also has dangerous decay
>> products that include radon. See
>>
>> The radioactive series of thorium-232
>>
>> https://www.ld-didactic.de/software/524221en/Content/Appendix/Th232Series.h
>>
>>
tm
>>
>> If you are living or working in a basement somewhere, you may
>> consider buying a Radon detector, such as sold on Amazon:
>>
>> https://www.google.ca/search?q=radon+detector
>
> It is probably only worth worrying about it if you live on granite or
> basalt rock though or soils derived from them. The real one to worry
> about is the longer lived Rn222 which is a part of the U238
> Th234/Th230 decay chain. The classical radium emanation. Certain
> parts of my old physics department had to be specially cleaned in the
> 1950's due to early experiments on radioactivity.
>
> There is around a 2ppm of uranium in a lot of crustal rocks - decent
> quality mineable ore is incredibly rare though. Back when I did ultra
> trace analysis we were forbidden from showing VIPs uranium in
> tapwater because our customers (especially the water companies)
> didn't like it.
>

Yes, and therein lies the problem. People are paranoid about radiation
because 'authorities' hide information and try to keep everyone
ignorant.

Jeroen Belleman

On 8/7/2023 1:10 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 9:39 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 8/7/2023 12:06 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 8/6/2023 6:54 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> On 8/6/2023 4:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> On 8/6/2023 11:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/6/2023 3:47 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Steel would be too heavy.  Aluminum might be too soft
>>>>>>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Limestone?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.theclassycottage.com/studio-a-travertine-sphere-6-7-70021.aspx>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oooooo.... that's a good idea!  They don't seem to state a "shipping
>>>>>>> weight" (to get an idea of it's actual weight).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously, the material can be "shaped" but I wonder how practical
>>>>>>> that is for "random" shaping?  And, how prevalent the tools and
>>>>>>> skills to do so?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Companies that do e.g. gravestones and memorial monuments might be
>>>>>> a good place to ask.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, that's a good idea!  They can at least do 2D machining of the
>>>>> surfaces.
>>>>> OTOH, you gotta wonder why most memorials are little more than
>>>>> name, dates
>>>>> and some token "Loving Father" sort of crap.
>>>>
>>>> Gravestones aren't particularly cheap and like obituaries, they tend
>>>> to charge by the word or letter! My late father was interred at the
>>>> military cemetery on Cape Cod:
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_National_Cemetery>
>>>>
>>>> and there was no charge for that, but there was still a character
>>>> limit, can't offhand recall what it was though.
>>>
>>> Likely introduced because of space limitations.  But, my point was,
>>> that they
>>> can also render "graphics" yet don't often do so.
>>>
>>>> Either way it's difficult to summarize a life in the space
>>>> available, for both my parents I tried to come up with something
>>>> more unique than the kind of phrases you mention. For Dad I used six
>>>> words and Mom seven, New Englanders tend to consider brevity a virtue.
>>>
>>> Why the need to summarizes a life?  If you feel like you have to say
>>> something in a public space -- that you've not said to them previously,
>>> in a more intimate space -- you're really just saying it for yourself
>>> so that OTHERS will see your words.
>>
>> Yep, physical memorials are for the living. Who else would they be for?
>
> Is there something wrong with your *memory* that you need a
> physical manifestation of an event to "remind you"?  I've not
> visited the gravesites of any of the folks I knew (as I've lived
> in many parts of the country and traveling JUST to visit a
> gravesite is kinda silly).  Yet, I vividly remember them,
> our times together, etc.
>
> And, I suspect they would be happier for that (cuz I can do it as
> often as they come to mind!) than the fact that I put a few pebbles
> on their headstone...
>
> "Country clubs and cemeteries, the biggest wasters of prime real estate"
>    -- Al Czervik

I was laying flowers on my grandmother's grave the other day and there
was a man nearby having a picnic by his loved one's gravesite, can't say
I've ever felt the need to do that.

Not all human traditions/cultural rituals are logical, Mr. Spock.
Probably most of them aren't. But I think a reason we (well some of us,
anyway) do them regardless is they're part of what makes us human vs.
beings of pure logic, which sounds like an unpleasant way to be.

But if it's our destiny to all be replaced or merge with machines
eventually anyway (seems perhaps more likely by the day) then I don't
see any need to rush the process.

>>> Growing up in New England, I never recall "brevity" being considered
>>> virtuous.  More often, the opposite was the norm (ever hear two
>>> new yorkers arguing about where to buy the best slice of pizza?
>>> or ball team?  or...)
>>
>> New York is not New England, aaaaaaaaaaaah!
>
> Repeat for Boston.  Central Connecticut.  Vermont.  New Hampshire
> ("north boston").
>
> A visit to the North End would find folks standing out on the sidewalk
> chatting about <whatever>.  Buying a piece of Caciocavallo would entail
> a suitable commentary about merits wrt Provolone -- and the folks in
> line behind you chiming in with *their* opinions!
>
> That's not as common in the West.  People tend to stick to themselves.
> Some appear clumsy when "confronted" with conversation.  SWMBO notes
> that one of our neighbors never acknowledges anyone's presence (unless
> she's had a bit to drink and then wants to moan about her dead son)

All apocryphal and anecdotal but I like my anecdote better. I think at
least with respect to small talk with strangers my experience is people
in e.g. Salt Lake City or Portland OR are much more willing to chat with
a stranger in say a grocery store parking lot, that behavior is less
"culturally acceptable" in the Northeast. New York included.

> It's more unusual to find people with "deep roots" than back east.

??? Have you tried a Native American reservation? The last Wampanoag in
Massachusetts with no significant non-indigenous ancestry died around
1850, though a fairly small population of people with legally sufficient
Wampanoag ancestry who consider themselves culturally Wampanoag remains.

On 8/7/2023 8:39 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>> Either way it's difficult to summarize a life in the space available, for
>>>>> both my parents I tried to come up with something more unique than the
>>>>> kind of phrases you mention. For Dad I used six words and Mom seven, New
>>>>> Englanders tend to consider brevity a virtue.
>>>>
>>>> Why the need to summarizes a life?  If you feel like you have to say
>>>> something in a public space -- that you've not said to them previously,
>>>> in a more intimate space -- you're really just saying it for yourself
>>>> so that OTHERS will see your words.
>>>
>>> Yep, physical memorials are for the living. Who else would they be for?
>>
>> Is there something wrong with your *memory* that you need a
>> physical manifestation of an event to "remind you"?  I've not
>> visited the gravesites of any of the folks I knew (as I've lived
>> in many parts of the country and traveling JUST to visit a
>> gravesite is kinda silly).  Yet, I vividly remember them,
>> our times together, etc.
>>
>> And, I suspect they would be happier for that (cuz I can do it as
>> often as they come to mind!) than the fact that I put a few pebbles
>> on their headstone...
>>
>> "Country clubs and cemeteries, the biggest wasters of prime real estate"
>>     -- Al Czervik
>
> I was laying flowers on my grandmother's grave the other day and there was a
> man nearby having a picnic by his loved one's gravesite, can't say I've ever
> felt the need to do that.

It speaks to *his* "needs". One has to wonder how often he thinks of them
when *not* at the gravesite. I haven't seen my grandmother's gravesite in
50+ years (though I suspect I could find it, even though it wasn't "local"
to my home). That doesn't stop me from sharing tales of "events" with her
or manners of speech (immigrant) that were peculiar to her. Each time I
stumble on a rerun of Ed Sullivan, I recall the dread we (as an extended
family) had for having to watch it because SHE wanted to. Or, make
"red sauce" and think of Grandpa fishing the pigs' feet out of HIS sauce.

> Not all human traditions/cultural rituals are logical, Mr. Spock. Probably most

They don't have to be "logical", McCoy. But, the folks engaging in them
should understand WHY they are doing so and not out of "cultural norms"
or other externalities. (this is true for all behaviors)

> of them aren't. But I think a reason we (well some of us, anyway) do them
> regardless is they're part of what makes us human vs. beings of pure logic,
> which sounds like an unpleasant way to be.

Many "habits" are routed in guilt and other emotions. Have you ever studied
how death is handled in various cultures around the world? Or, even within
different ethnicities, "here"?

The Mexicans, locally, erect tributes to family members who have been
killed ON THAT SITE. The City will act to preserve these (for some
period of time) recognizing that they serve a purpose in their culture.

Folks often adorn their vehicles with "In loving memory..." noting
the name of the deceased, date, etc. And, often monochrome imagery
to depict their likeness.

/Dia de los Muertos/ celebrates the dead, generically.

It seems odd that you would need a special occasion to remember someone
who has passed. Or, a monument. Instead of remembering them as you go
about your daily activities and are reminded by them and past interactions
with them (but, THAT would be highly illogical, no? seems far more
logical to set aside a DAY and a PLACE for that, eh?)

> But if it's our destiny to all be replaced or merge with machines eventually
> anyway (seems perhaps more likely by the day) then I don't see any need to rush
> the process.
>
>>>> Growing up in New England, I never recall "brevity" being considered
>>>> virtuous.  More often, the opposite was the norm (ever hear two
>>>> new yorkers arguing about where to buy the best slice of pizza?
>>>> or ball team?  or...)
>>>
>>> New York is not New England, aaaaaaaaaaaah!
>>
>> Repeat for Boston.  Central Connecticut.  Vermont.  New Hampshire
>> ("north boston").
>>
>> A visit to the North End would find folks standing out on the sidewalk
>> chatting about <whatever>.  Buying a piece of Caciocavallo would entail
>> a suitable commentary about merits wrt Provolone -- and the folks in
>> line behind you chiming in with *their* opinions!
>>
>> That's not as common in the West.  People tend to stick to themselves.
>> Some appear clumsy when "confronted" with conversation.  SWMBO notes
>> that one of our neighbors never acknowledges anyone's presence (unless
>> she's had a bit to drink and then wants to moan about her dead son)
>
> All apocryphal and anecdotal but I like my anecdote better. I think at least
> with respect to small talk with strangers my experience is people in e.g. Salt
> Lake City or Portland OR are much more willing to chat with a stranger in say a
> grocery store parking lot, that behavior is less "culturally acceptable" in the
> Northeast. New York included.

You evaluate "chattiness" by how willing folks are to talk to *strangers*?
One would think you would be more interested in how they treat the
folks that they are surrounded by, all the time -- unless all their
interactions ARE with strangers (which would be REALLY sad!)

>> It's more unusual to find people with "deep roots" than back east.
>
> ??? Have you tried a Native American reservation? The last Wampanoag in

The Navajo reservation is here -- as are the Tohono Chul, Yavapai, Hopi,
Havasupai, etc. None speaks for "contemporary (american) society"

If I were to return to my childhood home, MOST of the neighbors that I grew
up with would still be there -- many decades later. That's not true (for the
most part) in the West. People tend to be "transplants" for work, school,
etc. (I think there is one person within a block of me who is a "native")
So, neighborhoods "turn over" fairly quickly (a decade instead of a
generation).

> Massachusetts with no significant non-indigenous ancestry died around 1850,
> though a fairly small population of people with legally sufficient Wampanoag
> ancestry who consider themselves culturally Wampanoag remains.

On 8/7/2023 12:50 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 06/08/2023 08:53, Don Y wrote:
>> On 8/5/2023 9:00 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>>> Steel would be too heavy. Aluminum might be too soft
>>>> (too easily marred)
>>>>
>>>> Any other materials I can explore?
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144428340712 ?
>>
>> That gives me an idea of what the sphere bitrex mentioned might weigh.
>>
>> And, if "stone" proves to be the right option, then I can just
>> wait for the Gem & Mineral Show, this winter, to see what I can pick up
>> locally (let the seller come to me instead of the other way around)
>
>
> Stones of that size would be expensive. Though sphere grinding machines for
> making spheres of rock crystal and the like are big with crystal healers (and
> glass spheres I think are available on eBay for a price).
>
> If you are prepared to mess around a bit defect free concrete or U-crete might
> be a good fit. The latter was a product that I thought never really took off
> the way it should have done. Polyurethane bound concrete tough enough to do
> instant repairs on runways (but AFAIK it sank without trace). Turns out it is
> still around as an expensive flooring material.
>
> https://www.master-builders-solutions.com/en-au/products/ucrete

How light/viscous is it? E.g., could I put some (*flimsy*) forms
*in* a mold to exclude the material from filling those portions
and then, after "hardened", extricate the forms -- exploiting the
fact that they were *just* robust enough to keep the material
from occupying those spaces but not sturdy enough to resist
being manually "torn out"?

[Keeping in mind that there could be several inches of material
sitting atop such a flimsy form]

> Defect free concrete was strong enough to make car suspension springs out of
> but processing again was fiddly and I think sank without trace.
>
> http://concrete.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ultra-high-strength-concrete.pdf
>