So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.

“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]

Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide.. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening..

Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:

"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.

“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"

"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."

Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.

https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
>
>“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
>
>Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
>
>Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
>
>"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
>
>“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
>
>"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
>
>Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
>
>https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/

This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 7:46:45 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? ...
> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
> >
> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
> >
> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
> >
> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
> >
> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
> >
> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
> >
> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
> >
> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/

> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."

That's the John Larkin prejudice talking, in the complete denial of multiple contributing factors,
he probably thinks someone, somewhere, did a stupid. Billions on this world, lots of misunderstandings,
so perhaps a misunderstanding IS to blame. That's bad analysis, however, and you really DO want
a good analysis, if history is not to repeat itself.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 00:39:46 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 7:46:45?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? ...
>> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
>> >
>> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
>> >
>> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
>> >
>> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
>> >
>> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
>> >
>> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
>> >
>> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
>> >
>> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/
>
>> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."
>
>That's the John Larkin prejudice talking, in the complete denial of multiple contributing factors,
>he probably thinks someone, somewhere, did a stupid. Billions on this world, lots of misunderstandings,
>so perhaps a misunderstanding IS to blame. That's bad analysis, however, and you really DO want
>a good analysis, if history is not to repeat itself.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-scary-science-of-mauis-wildfires/

Historical factors have also conspired to push Maui into the Pyrocene.
When Europeans arrived in the late 18th century and established
plantations for growing sugarcane and pineapple, they also brought
invasive grasses. Now the economics have changed, and those fields lie
fallow. But the grasses have spread like a plague. “Those fire-prone
invasive species fill in any gaps anywhere else—roadsides, in between
communities, in between people’s homes, all over the place,” says
Pickett. “At this point, 26 percent of our state is covered in these
fire-prone grasses.”

The giant Clifornia firestorms are caused by putting out a lot of
small natural fires, and building flammible towns near forests.

Fire is natural. It's the ultimate fate of most vegitation. The
average is pretty constant (it's the growth rate) but we change the
duty cycle.

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:46:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
> >
> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
> >
> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
> >
> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
> >
> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
> >
> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
> >
> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
> >
> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
> >
> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/
>
> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."

Climate change? What a minute, that's a man-made disaster too.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 00:39:46 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 7:46:45?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? ...
>> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
>> >
>> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
>> >
>> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
>> >
>> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
>> >
>> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
>> >
>> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
>> >
>> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
>> >
>> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/
>
>> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."
>
>That's the John Larkin prejudice talking, in the complete denial of multiple contributing factors,
>he probably thinks someone, somewhere, did a stupid. Billions on this world, lots of misunderstandings,
>so perhaps a misunderstanding IS to blame. That's bad analysis, however, and you really DO want
>a good analysis, if history is not to repeat itself.

Lahaina was a tinderbox, worse than Paradise CA. One Tesla could have
started that fire.

There was a siren system to alert people of an incoming disaster, like
a tsunami. It wasn't used. They texted instead.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 10:38:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:46:45?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
>> >
>> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
>> >
>> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
>> >
>> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
>> >
>> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
>> >
>> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
>> >
>> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
>> >
>> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
>> >
>> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/
>>
>> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."
>
>Climate change? What a minute, that's a man-made disaster too.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/environment/hawaii-wildfires-invoked-demand-climate-emergency-biden-specialist

It's easy for criminally negligent politians and fire officials,
arguably murderers, to shout "climate change".

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:21:38 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 10:38:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:46:45?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires.. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
> >> >
> >> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
> >> >
> >> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
> >> >
> >> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
> >> >
> >> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
> >> >
> >> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
> >> >
> >> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
> >> >
> >> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
> >> >
> >> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/
> >>
> >> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."
> >
> >Climate change? What a minute, that's a man-made disaster too.
> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/environment/hawaii-wildfires-invoked-demand-climate-emergency-biden-specialist
>
> It's easy for criminally negligent politians and fire officials,
> arguably murderers, to shout "climate change".

Looks to me the perfect opportunity to start a cashmere industry. The main culprit is the Guinea grass, an import for Southeast Asia and Japan, where it is considered a great grazing feedstock. Goats will keep it in check. Don't tell me the cashmere goats won't thrive on it and in that environment. Hawaii could probably put China out of the business because the land doesn't support it there. Animal abuse in China is horrendous. When the land is depleted of forage, which happens routinely, they just let the goats starve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashmere_goat

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:01:48 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:21:38 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 10:38:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:46:45?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
> > >> >
> > >> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
> > >> >
> > >> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
> > >> >
> > >> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
> > >> >
> > >> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
> > >> >
> > >> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
> > >> >
> > >> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
> > >> >
> > >> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
> > >> >
> > >> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
> > >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/
> > >>
> > >> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."
> > >
> > >Climate change? What a minute, that's a man-made disaster too.
> > https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/environment/hawaii-wildfires-invoked-demand-climate-emergency-biden-specialist
> >
> > It's easy for criminally negligent politians and fire officials,
> > arguably murderers, to shout "climate change".
> Looks to me the perfect opportunity to start a cashmere industry. The main culprit is the Guinea grass, an import for Southeast Asia and Japan, where it is considered a great grazing feedstock. Goats will keep it in check. Don't tell me the cashmere goats won't thrive on it and in that environment.. Hawaii could probably put China out of the business because the land doesn't support it there. Animal abuse in China is horrendous. When the land is depleted of forage, which happens routinely, they just let the goats starve.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashmere_goat

Maui experienced the perfect storm: a high-pressure area to the north and a severe low-pressure area to the south (tropical storm Dora). High-pressure zones rotate CW while low-pressure zones rotate CCW. This creates high winds between the two. Complicating this is the winds were westerly and downslope on the west side of Maui, blowing burning embers in advance of the fire.. On top of that, this is their dry period with a drought in progress. Droughts have been occurring for millennia and have nothing to do with AGW. Lahaina is an old town with mostly old wood structures, ripe for a fire conflagration.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:21:38 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 10:38:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 10:46:45?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.

> >> This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."
> >
> >Climate change? What a minute, that's a man-made disaster too.
> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/environment/hawaii-wildfires-invoked-demand-climate-emergency-biden-specialist
>
> It's easy for criminally negligent politians and fire officials,
> arguably murderers, to shout "climate change".

Policy for this nation includes the Paris accords, which mandates climate
change awareness. Criminal negligence, on the other hand, would describe suppressors of that
subject, like you and other denialists!

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

> Maui experienced the perfect storm: a high-pressure area to the north and a severe low-pressure area to the south
....
>, this is their dry period with a drought in progress.
>Droughts have been occurring for millennia and have nothing to do with AGW..
>Lahaina is an old town with mostly old wood structures, ripe for a fire conflagration.

Yeah, that's odd, isn't it? How does a town get old with mostly wood structures, if
these fire conditions are nothing new? AGW is staring you in the face, and you
claim not to see it.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:27:52 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
>
>> Maui experienced the perfect storm: a high-pressure area to the north and a severe low-pressure area to the south
>...
>>, this is their dry period with a drought in progress.
>>Droughts have been occurring for millennia and have nothing to do with AGW.
>>Lahaina is an old town with mostly old wood structures, ripe for a fire conflagration.
>
>Yeah, that's odd, isn't it? How does a town get old with mostly wood structures, if
>these fire conditions are nothing new? AGW is staring you in the face, and you
>claim not to see it.

Probably the same problem as Paradise CA. Flying embers from a nearby
firestorm started too many fires to put out.

In both places, the giant fire resulted from bad forest management,
and the deaths resulted from bad city management.

Check out Paradise on Google Earth. Lots of empty lots where the
houses burned, but the green trees are still green.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
>
>“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
>
>Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
>
>Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
>
>"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
>
>“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
>
>"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
>
>Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
>
>https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582

Use Google Maps and Street View for Lahaina.

It's awful. Square miles of flammable structures and vegitation, dead
ends and cul-de-sacs, entire neighborhoods with just one or two access
streets, like Paradise CA. People can't get out, fire trucks can't get
in.

This disaster was actually predicted.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lahaina,+HI/@20.8836167,-156.6760224,16.08z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x79552ac78bdde9f9:0xb2e611772e1f966e!8m2!3d20.882371!4d-156.6816195!16zL20vMHMwanM?authuser=0&entry=ttu

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:27:57 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
>
> > Maui experienced the perfect storm: a high-pressure area to the north and a severe low-pressure area to the south
> ...
> >, this is their dry period with a drought in progress.
> >Droughts have been occurring for millennia and have nothing to do with AGW.
> >Lahaina is an old town with mostly old wood structures, ripe for a fire conflagration.
> Yeah, that's odd, isn't it? How does a town get old with mostly wood structures, if
> these fire conditions are nothing new? AGW is staring you in the face, and you
> claim not to see it.

LOL! It is the way anything gets old - with TIME!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/hawaii-maui-fire-risks-plans-government-e883f3a3?ns=prod/accounts-wsj

Nearly a decade before a wildfire destroyed the coastal Maui town of Lahaina this week, killing at least 80 people, a report by Hawaiian fire researchers warned that the area was at extremely high risk of burning.

Another report, in 2020, tied fires to winds from a passing hurricane—similar to the ones that fanned the Lahaina blaze.

And the state’s electric utility had for years worried about wildfire risk in the area. It even flew drones to monitor conditions.

Yet local authorities said in the aftermath of this week’s devastation that though they knew wildfires were becoming more frequent in Hawaii, they weren’t prepared for one to roar through Lahaina.

The fire hit the coastal town so quickly and caught officials so off-guard that emergency sirens didn’t sound. Many panicked residents were unable to flee on the town’s one clogged highway and took boats or swam to safety, if they were able to escape at all.

In 2014, a wildfire-protection plan for the area was written by the Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization, a nonprofit that works with government agencies. It warned that Lahaina was among Maui’s most fire-prone areas because of its proximity to parched grasslands, steep terrain and frequent winds.

The plan, which involved Maui and state officials, laid out a multitude of mitigation measures that needed to be undertaken to shield the area around Lahaina from fires. They included thinning vegetation near populated areas, improving wildfire-response capabilities and working with landowners and utilities to help reduce fire risk on their property.

Some of the recommendations from the 2014 plan, which was devised after more than a half-dozen community meetings, were implemented, like brush thinning efforts and public education for landowners, said the report’s lead author, Elizabeth Pickett. But others, such as ramping up emergency-response capacity, have been stymied by a lack of funding, logistical hurdles in rugged terrain and competing priorities, said Pickett, co-executive director of the wildfire nonprofit.

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:54:43 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:14:36 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:27:57 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> > >
> > > > Maui experienced the perfect storm: a high-pressure area to the north and a severe low-pressure area to the south
> > > ...
> > > >, this is their dry period with a drought in progress.
> > > >Droughts have been occurring for millennia and have nothing to do with AGW.
> > > >Lahaina is an old town with mostly old wood structures, ripe for a fire conflagration.
> > >
> > > Yeah, that's odd, isn't it? How does a town get old with mostly wood structures, if these fire conditions are nothing new? AGW is staring you in the face, and you claim not to see it.
> >
> > LOL! It is the way anything gets old - with TIME!
> That's not an answer to the question being asked. Your reading comprehension is as defective as ever.
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/hawaii-maui-fire-risks-plans-government-e883f3a3?ns=prod/accounts-wsj
> >
> > Nearly a decade before a wildfire destroyed the coastal Maui town of Lahaina this week, killing at least 80 people, a report by Hawaiian fire researchers warned that the area was at extremely high risk of burning.
> >
> > Another report, in 2020, tied fires to winds from a passing hurricane—similar to the ones that fanned the Lahaina blaze.
> >
> > And the state’s electric utility had for years worried about wildfire risk in the area. It even flew drones to monitor conditions.
> >
> > Yet local authorities said in the aftermath of this week’s devastation that though they knew wildfires were becoming more frequent in Hawaii, they weren’t prepared for one to roar through Lahaina.
> >
> > The fire hit the coastal town so quickly and caught officials so off-guard that emergency sirens didn’t sound. Many panicked residents were unable to flee on the town’s one clogged highway and took boats or swam to safety, if they were able to escape at all.
> >
> > In 2014, a wildfire-protection plan for the area was written by the Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization, a nonprofit that works with government agencies. It warned that Lahaina was among Maui’s most fire-prone areas because of its proximity to parched grasslands, steep terrain and frequent winds.
> >
> > The plan, which involved Maui and state officials, laid out a multitude of mitigation measures that needed to be undertaken to shield the area around Lahaina from fires. They included thinning vegetation near populated areas, improving wildfire-response capabilities and working with landowners and utilities to help reduce fire risk on their property.
> >
> > Some of the recommendations from the 2014 plan, which was devised after more than a half-dozen community meetings, were implemented, like brush thinning efforts and public education for landowners, said the report’s lead author, Elizabeth Pickett. But others, such as ramping up emergency-response capacity, have been stymied by a lack of funding, logistical hurdles in rugged terrain and competing priorities, said Pickett, co-executive director of the wildfire nonprofit.
> If the area was at high risk of burning in 2014, nine years ago. it has taken a long time to get around to burning. Curiously the burning has coincided with the hottest northern hemisphere summer on record, which might be expected to have increased the risk.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, you global warming nuts have been predicting Armageddon for DECADES:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/al-gore-history-climate-predictions-statements-proven-false
The risk of wildfires on Maui have nothing to do with AGW; it is about the introduction of non-native vegetation, periodic drought cycles, hurricanes and the lack of preparedness. But why should I expect anything else from someone who thinks that NUKING and, especially, FIREBOMBING his own country is a good idea?

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:05:52 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
> >
> >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
> >
> >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
> >
> >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
> >
> >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
> >
> >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
> >
> >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
> >
> >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
> >
> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
> Use Google Maps and Street View for Lahaina.
>
> It's awful. Square miles of flammable structures and vegitation, dead
> ends and cul-de-sacs, entire neighborhoods with just one or two access
> streets, like Paradise CA. People can't get out, fire trucks can't get
> in.
>
> This disaster was actually predicted.
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lahaina,+HI/@20.8836167,-156.6760224,16..08z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x79552ac78bdde9f9:0xb2e611772e1f966e!8m2!3d20.882371!4d-156.6816195!16zL20vMHMwanM?authuser=0&entry=ttu

Looks okay to me. Don't get how it even burned. Looks like it's a strip of development on the water adjacent to a much larger grasslands to its east. The heat, expanse, and intensity of the burning grasslands must have whipped up real fast with winds blowing it in their direction.

But if all you're going to do is look at details, you're going to miss seeing the larger picture of how all of this unfolded in the first place. The contemporaneous occurrence of low probability climate related events is climate change.

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:01:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:54:43 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:14:36 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:27:57 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Maui experienced the perfect storm: a high-pressure area to the north and a severe low-pressure area to the south
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >, this is their dry period with a drought in progress.
> > > > > >Droughts have been occurring for millennia and have nothing to do with AGW.
> > > > > >Lahaina is an old town with mostly old wood structures, ripe for a fire conflagration.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, that's odd, isn't it? How does a town get old with mostly wood structures, if these fire conditions are nothing new? AGW is staring you in the face, and you claim not to see it.
> > > >
> > > > LOL! It is the way anything gets old - with TIME!
> > > That's not an answer to the question being asked. Your reading comprehension is as defective as ever.
> > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/hawaii-maui-fire-risks-plans-government-e883f3a3?ns=prod/accounts-wsj
> > > >
> > > > Nearly a decade before a wildfire destroyed the coastal Maui town of Lahaina this week, killing at least 80 people, a report by Hawaiian fire researchers warned that the area was at extremely high risk of burning.
> > > >
> > > > Another report, in 2020, tied fires to winds from a passing hurricane—similar to the ones that fanned the Lahaina blaze.
> > > >
> > > > And the state’s electric utility had for years worried about wildfire risk in the area. It even flew drones to monitor conditions.
> > > >
> > > > Yet local authorities said in the aftermath of this week’s devastation that though they knew wildfires were becoming more frequent in Hawaii, they weren’t prepared for one to roar through Lahaina.
> > > >
> > > > The fire hit the coastal town so quickly and caught officials so off-guard that emergency sirens didn’t sound. Many panicked residents were unable to flee on the town’s one clogged highway and took boats or swam to safety, if they were able to escape at all.
> > > >
> > > > In 2014, a wildfire-protection plan for the area was written by the Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization, a nonprofit that works with government agencies. It warned that Lahaina was among Maui’s most fire-prone areas because of its proximity to parched grasslands, steep terrain and frequent winds.
> > > >
> > > > The plan, which involved Maui and state officials, laid out a multitude of mitigation measures that needed to be undertaken to shield the area around Lahaina from fires. They included thinning vegetation near populated areas, improving wildfire-response capabilities and working with landowners and utilities to help reduce fire risk on their property.
> > > >
> > > > Some of the recommendations from the 2014 plan, which was devised after more than a half-dozen community meetings, were implemented, like brush thinning efforts and public education for landowners, said the report’s lead author, Elizabeth Pickett. But others, such as ramping up emergency-response capacity, have been stymied by a lack of funding, logistical hurdles in rugged terrain and competing priorities, said Pickett, co-executive director of the wildfire nonprofit.
> > >
> > > If the area was at high risk of burning in 2014, nine years ago. it has taken a long time to get around to burning. Curiously, the burning has coincided with the hottest northern hemisphere summer on record, which might be expected to have increased the risk.
> >
> > Hey Bill, you global warming nuts have been predicting Armageddon for DECADES:
>
> We've been pretty confident that anthropogneic global warming is going on since the 1990's. We've also known that it isn't happening all that fast.

And you are "confident" that NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY is a good idea. The rest of us aren't. The bottom line is that you can't produce ANY PROOF that AGW exists; if you think otherwise then PRODUCE IT!

>
> <snipped the usual climate change denial propaganda from Fox News>
> > The risk of wildfires on Maui have nothing to do with AGW; it is about the introduction of non-native vegetation, periodic drought cycles, hurricanes and the lack of preparedness.
> The fact that it happened during the hottest northern hemisphere summer on record probably isn't a coincidence. You are brain damaged enough not to notice when Fox News is lying to you, and your opinion on the what made the Maui fire so remarkably devastating is just more incoherent idiocy.

Coincidences occur ALL THE TIME in science and history; Maui is no different.

>
> --
> Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 3:22:33 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:05:52 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
> > >
> > >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
> > >
> > >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
> > >
> > >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
> > >
> > >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
> > >
> > >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
> > >
> > >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
> > >
> > >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
> > >
> > >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
> > Use Google Maps and Street View for Lahaina.
> >
> > It's awful. Square miles of flammable structures and vegitation, dead
> > ends and cul-de-sacs, entire neighborhoods with just one or two access
> > streets, like Paradise CA. People can't get out, fire trucks can't get
> > in.
> >
> > This disaster was actually predicted.
> >
> > https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lahaina,+HI/@20.8836167,-156.6760224,16.08z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x79552ac78bdde9f9:0xb2e611772e1f966e!8m2!3d20.882371!4d-156.6816195!16zL20vMHMwanM?authuser=0&entry=ttu
> Looks okay to me. Don't get how it even burned. Looks like it's a strip of development on the water adjacent to a much larger grasslands to its east.. The heat, expanse, and intensity of the burning grasslands must have whipped up real fast with winds blowing it in their direction.
>
> But if all you're going to do is look at details, you're going to miss seeing the larger picture of how all of this unfolded in the first place. The contemporaneous occurrence of low probability climate related events is climate change.

When you have 70 mph gusts blowing burning embers into a large wooden fuel source one shouldn't be surprised at what happens next. This WAS warned about NINE years ago, but they didn't act on it.

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 1:07:04 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:27:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:01:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:54:43 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:14:36 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:27:57 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> <snip>
> > > > Hey Bill, you global warming nuts have been predicting Armageddon for DECADES:
> > >
> > > We've been pretty confident that anthropogneic global warming is going on since the 1990's. We've also known that it isn't happening all that fast.
> >
> > <snip> The rest of us aren't. The bottom line is that you can't produce ANY PROOF that AGW exists; if you think otherwise then PRODUCE IT!
>
> The bottom line is that you wouldn't take any kind of proof of it;s existence seriously, so I don't need to bother.
>
> https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/climatechange/science

There is NOTHING there that DIRECTLY links CO2 to climate change.

>
> There's lots more where that cam from, but Sewagfe Sweeper only trusts misinformation from Fox News.
> > > <snipped the usual climate change denial propaganda from Fox News>
>
> > > > The risk of wildfires on Maui have nothing to do with AGW; it is about the introduction of non-native vegetation, periodic drought cycles, hurricanes and the lack of preparedness.
> >
> > > The fact that it happened during the hottest northern hemisphere summer on record probably isn't a coincidence. You are brain damaged enough not to notice when Fox News is lying to you, and your opinion on the what made the Maui fire so remarkably devastating is just more incoherent idiocy.
> >
> > Coincidences occur ALL THE TIME in science and history; Maui is no different.
> Probably not the correct conclusion, but it makes Sewage Sweeper happy. It's the sort of bad logic that will get him incinerated when a forest fire strikes closer to his home. Not a great loss, but hard on his friends and neighbours - getting him out of their hair wouldn't really compensate for losing their homes.

A much more direct correlation is sunspot cycles to climate change, but you don't hear that mentioned much. Fires occur all of the time and have for millennia.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 1:09:27 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:30:02 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 3:22:33 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:05:52 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >So how in the world does a verdant Pacific island surrounded by lots of ocean and bathed by cool trade winds and lots of rainfall burst into flames? Seems that would be the last place on Earth anyone would see wildfires. Maui receives a mean of over 400 inches water on its windward side, there are dryer areas with only 20 inches.
> > > > >
> > > > >“Climate change in many parts of the world is increasing vegetation dryness, in large part because temperatures are hotter,” Fleishman said. “Even if you have the same amount of precipitation, if you have higher temperatures, things dry out faster.” [similar to previous situation in California ]
> > > > >
> > > > >Heat is behind what is obviously a global outbreak of wildfires. Heat is desiccating vegetation/ forests/ jungles and turning them into fuel worldwide. Normal rain patterns are not nearly enough to prevent this from happening.
> > > > >
> > > > >Then Hawaii is full of invasives [ ecosystem type not the people ]:
> > > > >
> > > > >"Clay Trauernicht, a fire scientist at the University of Hawaii, said the wet season can spur plants like Guinea grass, a nonnative, invasive species found across parts of Maui, to grow as quickly as 6 inches (15 centimeters) a day and reach up to 10 feet (3 meters) tall. When it dries out, it creates a tinderbox that’s ripe for wildfire.
> > > > >
> > > > >“These grasslands accumulate fuels very rapidly,” Trauernicht said. “In hotter conditions and drier conditions, with variable rainfall, it’s only going to exacerbate the problem.”"
> > > > >
> > > > >"Climate change not only increases the fire risk by driving up temperatures, but also makes stronger hurricanes more likely. In turn, those storms could fuel stronger wind events like the one behind the Maui fires."
> > > > >
> > > > >Hurricane Dora passing 500 miles to the south of the island accelerated the intensity of the normally occurring trade winds from north to south and is what caused the catastrophe.
> > > > >
> > > > >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582
> > > > Use Google Maps and Street View for Lahaina.
> > > >
> > > > It's awful. Square miles of flammable structures and vegitation, dead
> > > > ends and cul-de-sacs, entire neighborhoods with just one or two access
> > > > streets, like Paradise CA. People can't get out, fire trucks can't get
> > > > in.
> > > >
> > > > This disaster was actually predicted.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lahaina,+HI/@20.8836167,-156.6760224,16.08z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x79552ac78bdde9f9:0xb2e611772e1f966e!8m2!3d20..882371!4d-156.6816195!16zL20vMHMwanM?authuser=0&entry=ttu
> > > Looks okay to me. Don't get how it even burned. Looks like it's a strip of development on the water adjacent to a much larger grasslands to its east. The heat, expanse, and intensity of the burning grasslands must have whipped up real fast with winds blowing it in their direction.
> > >
> > > But if all you're going to do is look at details, you're going to miss seeing the larger picture of how all of this unfolded in the first place. The contemporaneous occurrence of low probability climate related events is climate change.
> >
> > When you have 70 mph gusts blowing burning embers into a large wooden fuel source one shouldn't be surprised at what happens next. This WAS warned about NINE years ago, but they didn't act on it.
> Eight years of it not happening did take some of the urgency out of the message.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Now we know that the fire was caused because Hawaii Electric did not DEENGERIZE the power lines in the face of 80 mph winds, and falling energized power lines started fires all over Lahaina. This failure to act is criminal.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/us/hawaii-maui-wildfire-power-lines-invs/index.html

Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

On Tuesday, 15 August 2023 at 02:14:09 UTC+3, Flyguy wrote:
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 1:07:04 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:27:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:01:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:54:43 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:14:36 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:27:57 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > > > Hey Bill, you global warming nuts have been predicting Armageddon for DECADES:
> > > >
> > > > We've been pretty confident that anthropogneic global warming is going on since the 1990's. We've also known that it isn't happening all that fast.
> > >
> > > <snip> The rest of us aren't. The bottom line is that you can't produce ANY PROOF that AGW exists; if you think otherwise then PRODUCE IT!
> >
> > The bottom line is that you wouldn't take any kind of proof of it;s existence seriously, so I don't need to bother.
> >
> > https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/climatechange/science
> There is NOTHING there that DIRECTLY links CO2 to climate change.
>
Svante Arrhenius got Nobel prize 1905 for proving that CO2 is greenhouse gas. No science
challenges that.

You are just being brainwashed by commercials of fossil fuel burning industries, but these
have nothing to do with reality. About like Marlboro commercials of sixties had nothing to
do with reality. You can probably find some from youtube.

> >
> > There's lots more where that cam from, but Sewagfe Sweeper only trusts misinformation from Fox News.
> > > > <snipped the usual climate change denial propaganda from Fox News>
> >
> > > > > The risk of wildfires on Maui have nothing to do with AGW; it is about the introduction of non-native vegetation, periodic drought cycles, hurricanes and the lack of preparedness.
> > >
> > > > The fact that it happened during the hottest northern hemisphere summer on record probably isn't a coincidence. You are brain damaged enough not to notice when Fox News is lying to you, and your opinion on the what made the Maui fire so remarkably devastating is just more incoherent idiocy.
> > >
> > > Coincidences occur ALL THE TIME in science and history; Maui is no different.
> > Probably not the correct conclusion, but it makes Sewage Sweeper happy. It's the sort of bad logic that will get him incinerated when a forest fire strikes closer to his home. Not a great loss, but hard on his friends and neighbours - getting him out of their hair wouldn't really compensate for losing their homes.
> A much more direct correlation is sunspot cycles to climate change, but you don't hear that mentioned much. Fires occur all of the time and have for millennia.
> >
> > --
> > Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
> Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> Wrote in message:r
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:46:45?PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: <snip>> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/ > > This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."John Larkin's reading comprehension has a lot in common with Flyguy's - he sees what he wants to see and ignores the parts that don't support the comment he wants to make.Better control of invasive weeds would have provided less fuel for the fires, but climate change seems to have contributed to the dry conditions and high winds that made the fires unusually intense.-- Bill Sloman, Sydney

Dude, Maui get about 6" of rain a year.
Its dry and arid.
Plus hydrants were dry due to lack of power.

Plus strong winds.

Leave the change off climate.

Cheers
--

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 12:30:26 AM UTC-7, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Tuesday, 15 August 2023 at 02:14:09 UTC+3, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 1:07:04 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:27:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:01:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:54:43 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:14:36 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:27:57 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > > > Hey Bill, you global warming nuts have been predicting Armageddon for DECADES:
> > > > >
> > > > > We've been pretty confident that anthropogneic global warming is going on since the 1990's. We've also known that it isn't happening all that fast.
> > > >
> > > > <snip> The rest of us aren't. The bottom line is that you can't produce ANY PROOF that AGW exists; if you think otherwise then PRODUCE IT!
> > >
> > > The bottom line is that you wouldn't take any kind of proof of it;s existence seriously, so I don't need to bother.
> > >
> > > https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/climatechange/science
> > There is NOTHING there that DIRECTLY links CO2 to climate change.
> >
> Svante Arrhenius got Nobel prize 1905 for proving that CO2 is greenhouse gas. No science
> challenges that.
>
> You are just being brainwashed by commercials of fossil fuel burning industries, but these
> have nothing to do with reality. About like Marlboro commercials of sixties had nothing to
> do with reality. You can probably find some from youtube.

LOL! Hey Bozo, NOBODY said that CO2 isn't a so-called greenhouse gas; what was said is that there is NO PROOF that CO2 is the major driver behind AGW. And you STILL haven't put forth ANY evidence to the contrary, you just blather on about Fox News. You are suffering from Fox News Derangement Syndrome!

> > >
> > > There's lots more where that cam from, but Sewagfe Sweeper only trusts misinformation from Fox News.
> > > > > <snipped the usual climate change denial propaganda from Fox News>
> > >
> > > > > > The risk of wildfires on Maui have nothing to do with AGW; it is about the introduction of non-native vegetation, periodic drought cycles, hurricanes and the lack of preparedness.
> > > >
> > > > > The fact that it happened during the hottest northern hemisphere summer on record probably isn't a coincidence. You are brain damaged enough not to notice when Fox News is lying to you, and your opinion on the what made the Maui fire so remarkably devastating is just more incoherent idiocy..
> > > >
> > > > Coincidences occur ALL THE TIME in science and history; Maui is no different.
> > > Probably not the correct conclusion, but it makes Sewage Sweeper happy. It's the sort of bad logic that will get him incinerated when a forest fire strikes closer to his home. Not a great loss, but hard on his friends and neighbours - getting him out of their hair wouldn't really compensate for losing their homes.
> > A much more direct correlation is sunspot cycles to climate change, but you don't hear that mentioned much. Fires occur all of the time and have for millennia.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
> > Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:04:31 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 9:14:09 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 1:07:04 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:27:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:01:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 9:54:43 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:14:36 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 7:27:57 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > > > Hey Bill, you global warming nuts have been predicting Armageddon for DECADES:
> > > > >
> > > > > We've been pretty confident that anthropogenic global warming is going on since the 1990's. We've also known that it isn't happening all that fast.
> > > >
> > > > <snip> The rest of us aren't. The bottom line is that you can't produce ANY PROOF that AGW exists; if you think otherwise then PRODUCE IT!
> > >
> > > The bottom line is that you wouldn't take any kind of proof of its existence seriously, so I don't need to bother.
> > >
> > > https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/climatechange/science
> >
> > There is NOTHING there that DIRECTLY links CO2 to climate change.
> https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/
>
> You won't pay any attention to that either. The connection between higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere and higher average temperatures at sea level is pretty direct, but
> you have to get your head around effective radiating altitudes and other abstruse concepts before it can make sense. You didn't bother before you succumbed to senile dementia, and you won't be able to do it now.

And you don't pay attention to the FACT that EVERYTIME the Earth has warmed CO2 concentrations FOLLOWED! And the reason is very SIMPLE: warming causes more living organisms to be produced, generating more CO2.

>
> > > There's lots more where that came from, but Sewage Sweeper only trusts misinformation from Fox News.
> >
> > > > > <snipped the usual climate change denial propaganda from Fox News>
> > >
> > > > > > The risk of wildfires on Maui have nothing to do with AGW; it is about the introduction of non-native vegetation, periodic drought cycles, hurricanes and the lack of preparedness.
> > > >
> > > > > The fact that it happened during the hottest northern hemisphere summer on record probably isn't a coincidence. You are brain damaged enough not to notice when Fox News is lying to you, and your opinion on the what made the Maui fire so remarkably devastating is just more incoherent idiocy..
> > > >
> > > > Coincidences occur ALL THE TIME in science and history; Maui is no different.
> > >
> > > Probably not the correct conclusion, but it makes Sewage Sweeper happy. It's the sort of bad logic that will get him incinerated when a forest fire strikes closer to his home. Not a great loss, but hard on his friends and neighbours - getting him out of their hair wouldn't really compensate for losing their homes.
> >
> > A much more direct correlation is sunspot cycles to climate change, but you don't hear that mentioned much. Fires occur all of the time and have for millennia.
> There was a famously bad paper that did argue that and got shot down in flames because it got its data wrong, but the climate change denial propaganda machine has been citing it ever since. and ignoring the demolition. It's exactly the kind of fatuous nonsense we can rely on you to come up with.

I notice that you didn't REFERENCE the paper.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
> [

Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 AM UTC-4, Martin Rid wrote:
> Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> Wrote in message:r
> > On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 12:46:45?PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote: <snip>> >https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-climate-change-92c0930be7c28ec9ac71392a83c87582> https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/10/maui-wildfires-why-weather-climate/ > > This is a man-made disaster, and not from "climate change."John Larkin's reading comprehension has a lot in common with Flyguy's - he sees what he wants to see and ignores the parts that don't support the comment he wants to make.Better control of invasive weeds would have provided less fuel for the fires, but climate change seems to have contributed to the dry conditions and high winds that made the fires unusually intense.-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
>
> Dude, Maui get about 6" of rain a year.
> Its dry and arid.
> Plus hydrants were dry due to lack of power.
>
> Plus strong winds.
>
> Leave the change off climate.

This is the same fallacy of logic all deniers use. By focusing on time localized cause and effect, such as the fuel in the dried out Guinea grass, high velocity trade winds, downed power lines, inability of firefighters to get to where they needed to be, etc, you miss the bigger picture about how this confluence of events came about in the first place.

The Guinea grass was especially dry due to above normal temperatures. Not all dried Guinea grass is the same. Then this unprecedented Hurricane Dora, which has gone coast-to-coast across North America, travelling over 4,000 miles, should have crossed the International Dateline by now, is an extremely rare event. The storm was powerful enough to significantly accelerate the trade winds across Maui despite being no closer than 500 miles.

Right now the origins of the fire are a toss-up between downed power company lines and arson. There's already a class-action forming against the power company because they have the deepest pockets.

>
> Cheers
> --
>
>
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