I have posted several times, here or elsewhere, details on the equality of
proper tenses in certain cases.
I said, speaking of the two travelers from Tau Ceti (variant of the
problem where the traveler was alone), that if the observable
(terrestrial) times of the two protagonists were the same (they leave
together, cross the same space of 12 ly, and arrive at the same time, then
their own times would be equal.
One of the travelers is in uniform Galilean motion (Vo=0.9291c), the
other is in accelerated motion (a=1.052 ly/y²).
This seems to surprise relativistic physicists.
But if we take the following example: we imagine a large circle of 24
light years, and we make a rocket travel the right half-circumference at
speed 0.9291c, and the left half-circumference
at the same speed speed by another rocket.
The two rockets will meet at the bottom.
To=12,914 years.
Tr=4,776 years.
The answer is obvious, and it will be the same for both rockets since they
do the same thing.
However, between them, the rockets undergo separations, rapprochements,
accelerations, changes in speed, and constantly, the two rockets, each,
will have stronger chronotropies than the other rocket.
We can also do the same thing with rockets accelerated on the same course.
Each rocket has an acceleration a=1.052ly/y² and they are at the bottom
of the diagram at the same time.
Here again the proper times will be the same (there is no need to
demonstrate this since they do the same thing with each other).
But throughout the journey, there will be a constantly positive
chronotropy for one rocket looking at the other, with reciprocal effect.
It is only a variation of Langevin's traveler where a paradox seems to
arise at the end.
But that's not the question.
What happens if we take a rocket from the first example on the left, and a
rocket from the second example on the right?
Doctor Hachel affirms that the proper times will again be equal, and he
still masters relativistic kinematics much better than the average person.
He says that the way scientists measure improper times in accelerated
frames is correct To=(x/c).sqrt(1+2c²/ax) but NOT the way they measure
proper times in this kind of frame.
Hence the fact that the proper times will not be equal for the two
rockets, according to physicists.
Who is lying? Who tells the truth?
R.H.

Richard Hachel wrote:
> I said, speaking of the two travelers from Tau Ceti (variant of the
> problem where the traveler was alone), that if the observable
> (terrestrial) times of the two protagonists were the same (they leave
> together, cross the same space of 12 ly, and arrive at the same time,
> then their own times would be equal.
> One of the travelers is in uniform Galilean motion (Vo=0.9291c), the
> other is in accelerated motion (a=1.052 ly/y²).
> This seems to surprise relativistic physicists.

ohh sure yes, my ass, why not.

𝗜𝘀𝗿𝗮𝗲𝗹_𝗮𝘀𝗸𝘀_𝗨𝗦_𝗳𝗼𝗿_‘𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗴𝗲𝗻𝗰𝘆’_$10_𝗯𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗼𝗻_–_𝗡𝗬𝗧
The White House has been working on a package that would combine aid to
𝗜𝘀𝗿𝗮𝗲𝗹,_𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲_𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝗧𝗮𝗶𝘄𝗮𝗻, the newspaper said
https://r%74.com/news/585154-israel-asks-us-10-billion/

These 𝘂𝘀𝗲𝗳𝘂𝗹 𝗰𝗼𝘄 𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗻𝘀. ... Amusing indeed to see the parasite that
is Israel sucking more shekels 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘀𝗲 𝘀𝗹𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗻𝘀... ISRAEL is a
parasite when it comes to USA. Next in line for the free hand outs ? The
EU and UK.

Ukraine will get less than $10 billion out of this. 𝗧𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗶𝘀 𝗻𝗼 𝘄𝗮𝘆 𝗕𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻
𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗴𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗺 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝗜𝘀𝗿𝗮𝗲𝗹.

Oh, is that all? For 𝗮 𝘀𝗲𝗹𝗳 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗰𝗹𝗮𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗱 "𝗰𝗵𝗼𝘀𝗲𝗻" 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲, they always need a
constant flow of financial aid.

Do these jews never stop 𝗯𝗲𝗴𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗲𝘃𝗶𝗻𝗴 if it's not Satanyahu it's
jewlensky now back to Satanyahu again

Wanna bet, they are very jealous and 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗰𝗵 𝘂𝗽 𝘁𝗼 𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲 𝘄𝗲𝗹𝗳𝗮𝗿𝗲
begging profits. Time is right. Crooked Joe is looking for more ways to
skim from printed billions.

The Z is going to cry! He will declare my money!! 𝗧𝗵𝗼𝘀𝗲 𝗳𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝗷𝗲𝘄 𝘇𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗶𝘀𝘁𝘀 took
my money....oh wait!!!?

Even Zelensky 𝘄𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗯𝗲 𝗱𝗶𝘀𝗴𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀. You think?

Den 17.10.2023 15:43, skrev Richard Hachel:
> I have posted several times, here or elsewhere, details on the equality
> of proper tenses in certain cases.
>
>  I said, speaking of the two travelers from Tau Ceti (variant of the
> problem where the traveler was alone), that if the observable
> (terrestrial) times of the two protagonists were the same (they leave
> together, cross the same space of 12 ly, and arrive at the same time,
> then their own times would be equal.

I suppose "their own time" means their proper time.
>
>  One of the travelers is in uniform Galilean motion (Vo=0.9291c), the
> other is in accelerated motion (a=1.052 ly/y²).

c = 1 ly/y
d = 12 ly

Accelerated traveller:
a = 1.052 ly/y²
terrestrial time: t₁ = √((d/c)²+2d/a) = 12.9156 y
proper time: τ₁ = (c/a)⋅arsinh(at₁/c) = 3.1403 y

Inertial traveller:
v = 0.9291 ly/y
γ = √(1−v²/c²) = 2.703955
terrestrial time: t₂ = d/v = 12.9157 y
proper time: τ₂ = t₂/γ = 4.7766 y

>
>  This seems to surprise relativistic physicists.

The proper times are not equal.

No point in going on.

> Who is lying? Who tells the truth?
>
> R.H.

You are not lying because you don't know better.
But you are wrong.

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

Le 17/10/2023 à 20:52, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
> Den 17.10.2023 15:43, skrev Richard Hachel:
>> I have posted several times, here or elsewhere, details on the equality
>> of proper tenses in certain cases.
>>
>>  I said, speaking of the two travelers from Tau Ceti (variant of the
>> problem where the traveler was alone), that if the observable
>> (terrestrial) times of the two protagonists were the same (they leave
>> together, cross the same space of 12 ly, and arrive at the same time,
>> then their own times would be equal.
>
> I suppose "their own time" means their proper time.
>>
>>  One of the travelers is in uniform Galilean motion (Vo=0.9291c), the
>> other is in accelerated motion (a=1.052 ly/y²).
>
> c = 1 ly/y

Yes.

> d = 12 ly

Absolutely.

>
> Accelerated traveller:
> a = 1.052 ly/y²

Sure.

> terrestrial time: t₁ = √((d/c)²+2d/a) = 12.9156 y

It's that I said.

> proper time: τ₁ = (c/a)⋅arsinh(at₁/c) = 3.1403 y

This formula is not correct.

This is the one that is taught.

But it is not correct.This formula is not correct.

This is the one that is taught.

But it is not correct.

> Inertial traveller:
> v = 0.9291 ly/y

Yes.

> γ = √(1−v²/c²) = 2.703955
> terrestrial time: t₂ = d/v = 12.9157 y

Yes.

> proper time: τ₂ = t₂/γ = 4.7766 y

Yes.
>
>>
>>  This seems to surprise relativistic physicists.
>
> The proper times are not equal.

The proper times, in this particular case, must be equal.

I specify, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

Tr=4.776 in both cases; for both rockets.

>
> No point in going on.
>
>> Who is lying? Who tells the truth?
>>
>> R.H.
>
> You are not lying because you don't know better.
> But you are wrong.

I refer the accusation to you.

Je vous remercie de votre réponse, qui clarifie les choses, et montre où
nous ne sommes plus d'accord du tout.

R.H.

Den 17.10.2023 21:09, skrev Richard Hachel:
> Le 17/10/2023 à 20:52, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
>> Den 17.10.2023 15:43, skrev Richard Hachel:
>>> I have posted several times, here or elsewhere, details on the
>>> equality of proper tenses in certain cases.
>>>
>>>   I said, speaking of the two travelers from Tau Ceti (variant of the
>>> problem where the traveler was alone), that if the observable
>>> (terrestrial) times of the two protagonists were the same (they leave
>>> together, cross the same space of 12 ly, and arrive at the same time,
>>> then their own times would be equal.
>>
>> I suppose "their own time" means their proper time.
>>>
>>>   One of the travelers is in uniform Galilean motion (Vo=0.9291c),
>>> the other is in accelerated motion (a=1.052 ly/y²).
>>
>> c = 1 ly/y
>
> Yes.
>
>> d = 12 ly
>
> Absolutely.
>>
>> Accelerated traveller:
>> a = 1.052 ly/y²
>
> Sure.
>> terrestrial time:  t₁ = √((d/c)²+2d/a) = 12.9156 y
>
> It's that I said.
>
>> proper time:  τ₁ = (c/a)⋅arsinh(at₁/c)  = 3.1403 y
>
> This formula is not correct.
>
> This is the one that is taught.
>
> But it is not correct.This formula is not correct.
>
> This is the one that is taught.
>
> But it is not correct.

It is what SR predicts.

What SR predicts is not a matter of opinion,
it is a matter of fact.

And the fact is that "this formula" follows with
mathematical necessity from the postulates of SR.

>
>> Inertial traveller:
>> v = 0.9291 ly/y
>
> Yes.
>> γ = √(1−v²/c²) = 2.703955
>> terrestrial time: t₂ = d/v = 12.9157 y
>
> Yes.
>> proper time: τ₂ = t₂/γ = 4.7766 y
>
> Yes.
>>
>>>
>>>   This seems to surprise relativistic physicists.
>>
>> The proper times are not equal.
>
> The proper times, in this particular case, must be equal.

Not according to SR.

If you are talking about the predictions of a different
theory than SR, I am not interested.

So don't tell me what your theory is.

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

Le 17/10/2023 à 22:03, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
> Den 17.10.2023 21:09, skrev Richard Hachel:

>> But it is not correct.
>
> It is what SR predicts.

That's what I said.

SR predictions (in this precise case) are not correct.

>
>>> The proper times are not equal.
>>
>> The proper times, in this particular case, must be equal.
>
> Not according to SR.

That's what I said.

SR predictions (in this precise case) are not correct.

> If you are talking about the predictions of a different
> theory than SR, I am not interested.

I'm not talking about a different theory, but a different understanding of
things.

> So don't tell me what your theory is.

:))

You do not have to be afraid, Paul.

I don't bite anyone.

R.H.

Le 17/10/2023 à 22:31, Volney a écrit :
> On 10/17/2023 3:09 PM, Richard Hachel wrote:
>
>> Je vous remercie de votre réponse, qui clarifie les choses, et montre où
>> nous ne sommes plus d'accord du tout.
>
> Why are you telling Paul that his hovercraft is full of eels?

I won't go that far.

I'm not saying that Paul is wrong about everything, or about many things.

Je trouve ses interventions très pertinentes et le plus souvent très
intéressantes.

I just noticed some errors in the way he was taught the theory of
relativity, which he reproduced in some pages of his pdfs.

For example when it performs a rotation instead of a translation, or when
it gives the instantaneous speed of an accelerated object, or the proper
time of an accelerated object.

He uses the theory as it is taught in universities, but not as I think it
should be taught.

Far too many things are imprecise or very poorly understood in this
theory.

I see with amazement that the big names themselves do not have clear ideas
on this and that they apply a half-crazy geometry, while the one that I
believe to be true is simpler, more logical, and more predictive.

R.H.

Den 17.10.2023 23:25, skrev Richard Hachel:
>
> He uses the theory as it is taught in universities, but not as I think
> it should be taught.
>
> R.H.

Shame on him!

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 2:25:23 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:

> He uses the theory as it is taught in universities, but not as I think it
> should be taught.
>
.....says one of the village idiots (the others being Dick Hertz , LooLoo and Patycakes Dolan)

Richard Hachel wrote:

> For example when it performs a rotation instead of a translation, or
> when it gives the instantaneous speed of an accelerated object, or the
> proper time of an accelerated object.

except the very center, the rest of it is still translation, from a point
to another. Like having 2 swimming pools, chocolate, theater, gourmet food
and sport activities etc, when you act to kill them in a way or another.

you are not going to tell me that 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝗮𝘇𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗸𝗵𝗮𝘇𝗮𝗿 𝗴𝗼𝘆𝘀, or terribly
stupid. Also, all survivors. I never saw a survivor not being a lying
khazar goy, expelled from khazaria. I don't know about you. You dirty sack
of shit. You must be a survivor.

B𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻_𝗯𝗹𝗮𝗺𝗲𝘀_𝗣𝗮𝗹𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗮𝗻𝘀_𝗳𝗼𝗿_𝗚𝗮𝘇𝗮_𝗵𝗼𝘀𝗽𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗹_𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗮𝗰𝗸
khazar bidon vouched for Israeli innocence in the deadly strike
https://r%74.com/news/585237-biden-hospital-israel-blame/

Joe is 𝗮_𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘂𝗽𝘁_𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗲𝗳_𝗮𝗻𝗱_𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗿𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁, blames it on others. Typical to
terrorists, especially Joe & Netanyahu.

Long before Biden became a demented senile, he is a big liar and a
terrorist.

“attacks against civilian infrastructure, especially electricity, are war
crimes. Cutting off men, women, children of water, electricity and heating
with winter coming - these are acts of pure terror. And we have to call it
as such.” Ursula Von Der Leyen October 19th 2022

I am surprised they did not blame it on Russia.

Those 2 idiots have no shame, no soul and no future in an afterlife,
𝘄𝗿𝗲𝘁𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗱_𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲𝘀

Time can change in two ways. If it slows down
it can speed back up...
If a space ship speeds up its time slows down.
Then it must slow back down to land on the other world.
So its time speeds back up by being again slow in space...

Mitchell Raemsch

On 10/23/23 4:15 PM, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Time can change in two ways.

No,it cannot.

> If it slows down it can speed back up...

No, it does not.

> If a space ship speeds up its time slows down.

Nope.

Why do you keep wasting time posting nonsense to the Net? -- your time
would be MUCH better spent studying and learning about physics.

Tom Roberts

On Tuesday, 24 October 2023 at 05:54:41 UTC+2, Tom Roberts wrote:

> Why do you keep wasting time posting nonsense to the Net? -- your time
> would be MUCH better spent studying and learning about physics.

Yeah!! Learning, that we're FORCED!!! To THE BEST WAY!!!

Tom Roberts wrote:

> On 10/23/23 4:15 PM, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Time can change in two ways. > No,it cannot.
>> If it slows down it can speed back up... > No, it does not.
>> If a space ship speeds up its time slows down. > Nope.

regarding to a local observer, it does, when compared home.

𝗘𝗨_𝗮_‘𝗽𝗮𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘆’_𝗼𝗳_𝗨𝗦𝗦𝗥_–_𝗛𝘂𝗻𝗴𝗮𝗿𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝗣𝗠
Viktor Orban has likened the bloc’s domineering tactics to his country’s
four decades under Soviet control
https://r%74.com/news/585637-orban-calls-eu-bad-parody-of-soviet-union/

A parody of USSR and also NAZI GERMANY without the concentration camps for
the moment. Mind you 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗼𝗰𝗸𝘀𝗱𝗼𝘄𝗻𝘀 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝘆𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗹 𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗿𝗼𝗿 𝗰𝗮𝗺𝗽𝗮𝗶𝗴𝗻
𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘀𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗳𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗠𝗢𝗗𝗘𝗥𝗡𝗔-𝗣𝗙𝗜𝗭𝗘𝗥 𝗺𝗥𝗡𝗔 𝗽𝗼𝗶𝘀𝗼𝗻𝗼𝘂𝘀 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗗𝗘𝗔𝗗𝗟𝗬 𝘀𝗵𝗼𝘁𝘀
was indeed quite close to Nazi Germany. So is the massive censure going on
when it comes to denouncing the COVID genocide, the uncontrolled mass
immigration invasion, the LBGTQ dictatorship, the global warming hoax, the
tyrannical pseudo green policies, Israelis and zionist neocons crimes and
of course 𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝗻𝗮𝘇𝗶𝘀𝗺... Hungary today is the ONLY bright spot in the
eurozone. The rest 𝗶𝘀 𝗶𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗲𝗱 𝗿𝗼𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗻 𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗲...

mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:

> Time can change in two ways. If it slows down it can speed back up...
> If a space ship speeds up its time slows down.
> Then it must slow back down to land on the other world.
> So its time speeds back up by being again slow in space...

because I hear tel aviv is the gay capital of the world. One more reason
not to go there, touching anything. What a disgusting place. Like the
white house, were the "first lady" of america fucked the president obama
in his ass.

who the fuck would even visit that house?? What a mess. That america, it's
like reading The Bible later days.