....one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/

On a sunny day (Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:34:14 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in
<e50cbe77-6868-4d55-885f-cf5810c1513dn@googlegroups.com>:

>...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad
>decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
>https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/

Does not seem so absurd as the sirens would make it look like a Tjunami warning and have the people move inland, towards the fire.
They should have different sounds / sequences for Tjunami, fire and maybe other events (nuclear attack for example).
It is as silly as the head of NASA resigning when a big asteroid crashes and destroys NY city.
There was a combination of factors, very strong wind and fire and dry land vegetation.
Would be good to make some vegetation free areas to prevent things like this in the future.
OTOH the sound from the sirens would perhaps have woken some people so they could go see the coming fire.
The guy resigning does not help anybody., political move.

On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:34:20 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> ...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
> https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/

Those sirens were part of a tsunami alert system, and that's how they would have been received by the people. It would have only added to the chaos to sound them. The manager is being scapegoated by the politicians.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:34:20?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
>> ...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
>> https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/
>
>Those sirens were part of a tsunami alert system, and that's how they would have been received by the people. It would have only added to the chaos to sound them. The manager is being scapegoated by the politicians.

And the relatives of the dead people. How rude.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:02:19 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:34:20?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> >> ...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
> >> https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/
> >
> >Those sirens were part of a tsunami alert system, and that's how they would have been received by the people. It would have only added to the chaos to sound them. The manager is being scapegoated by the politicians.
> And the relatives of the dead people. How rude.

They have a cell phone alert system in place there, which would have been more appropriate:

https://www.mauicounty.gov/983/MEMA-Alerts

I wonder if they used them. Those things are louder than a siren.

From what I can find, the fire went full blast at 12:20 AM. That's not the worst possible time, but close to it. The BIG problem was the speed at which things were blowing up. Survivors had to move fast. The firestorm doesn't wait for anyone. Could be why they think what possibly could be 1,000 victims are all older people.

On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 10:27:52 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:34:14 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Flyguy
> <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> <e50cbe77-6868-4d55...@googlegroups.com>:
> >...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad
> >decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
> >https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/
> Does not seem so absurd as the sirens would make it look like a Tjunami warning and have the people move inland, towards the fire.
> They should have different sounds / sequences for Tjunami, fire and maybe other events (nuclear attack for example).
> It is as silly as the head of NASA resigning when a big asteroid crashes and destroys NY city.
> There was a combination of factors, very strong wind and fire and dry land vegetation.
> Would be good to make some vegetation free areas to prevent things like this in the future.
> OTOH the sound from the sirens would perhaps have woken some people so they could go see the coming fire.
> The guy resigning does not help anybody., political move.

Yes, it DOES seem absurd. People WILL NOT run towards a raging inferno coming at them. Well, maybe you and Bozo would...

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:15:16 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 1:02:19 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:34:20?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> > >> ...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
> > >> https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/
> > >
> > >Those sirens were part of a tsunami alert system, and that's how they would have been received by the people. It would have only added to the chaos to sound them. The manager is being scapegoated by the politicians.
> >
> > And the relatives of the dead people. How rude.
> The relatives of the people who aren't dead because the emergency sirens didn't tell them to run away from a (non-existent) tsunami into the real flames, aren't making any fuss at all.
>
> Flyguy doesn't understand this, or much else besides. Neither does John Larkin. Both of them share Trump's enthusiasm for telling half-truths (or less) that suit their political agenda.
>
> With any luck America won't need a fool killer any more - the politicians are encouraging fools to kill themselves, putting him out of business.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, I have not heard a SINGLE Maui resident say "Boy, am I glad they didn't sound the sirens!" It is exactly the OPPOSITE: they have ALL complained about the lack of sirens. This is why you don't want bureaucrats to run things.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 2:18:29 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:15:16 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 1:02:19 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:34:20?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> > > >> ...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
> > > >> https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/
> > > >
> > > >Those sirens were part of a tsunami alert system, and that's how they would have been received by the people. It would have only added to the chaos to sound them. The manager is being scapegoated by the politicians.
> > >
> > > And the relatives of the dead people. How rude.
> > The relatives of the people who aren't dead because the emergency sirens didn't tell them to run away from a (non-existent) tsunami into the real flames, aren't making any fuss at all.
> >
> > Flyguy doesn't understand this, or much else besides. Neither does John Larkin. Both of them share Trump's enthusiasm for telling half-truths (or less) that suit their political agenda.
> >
> > With any luck America won't need a fool killer any more - the politicians are encouraging fools to kill themselves, putting him out of business.
> >
> > --
> > Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
>
> Hey Bozo, I have not heard a SINGLE Maui resident say "Boy, am I glad they didn't sound the sirens!" It is exactly the OPPOSITE: they have ALL complained about the lack of sirens. This is why you don't want bureaucrats to run things.

Those are ignorant people who don't even know what the sirens are for. And probably the same level of ignorance responsible for them not signing up for emergency cell phone alerts either. And we're not hearing about any great stories of heroism with people stopping in their panic to flee to rescue handicapped old people or even take the time to bang on their doors to wake them up.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:18:29 AM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:15:16 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 1:02:19 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 11:34:20?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> > > >> ...one day after defending his ABSURD decision not to sound the emergency sirens. How many people did this guy kill by this bad decision? His excuse: he thought people would run TO the fire!
> > > >> https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/maui-emergency-chief-herman-andaya-resigns-after-defending-siren-decision/
> > > >
> > > >Those sirens were part of a tsunami alert system, and that's how they would have been received by the people. It would have only added to the chaos to sound them. The manager is being scapegoated by the politicians.

Yes, that's certainly true. That particular manager does not WANT to be in that hotseat
the next time an alert falls short of expectations, so he won't be

> Hey Bozo, I have not heard a SINGLE Maui resident say "Boy, am I glad they didn't sound the sirens!" It is exactly the OPPOSITE: they have ALL complained about the lack of sirens. This is why you don't want bureaucrats to run things.

But, that's exactly what losing the manager IS doing, it's putting his bosses (also part of
the same bureaucracy) into the next months and years of either micromanaging from
desks that mainly don't handle emergencies, OR hiring another manager (which might
work, or might not: very fast moving fire was never the intended message of those sirens).

The press has picked up some dissatisfaction and spread it around, so the complaints
are news. After the fire's out, it might be the main news, for a few weeks.
It's like the continuing drama at Fukushima's nuclear facility: THAT wasn't why tens
of thousands died, but it was ongoing big news for many months after.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 12:25:53 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:

>... we're not hearing about any great stories of heroism with people stopping in their panic to flee to rescue handicapped old people or even take the time to bang on their doors to wake them up.

There's at least one very sad reason we aren't hearing those stories.