On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
<vn0sfih7c67lclag870p7s942on0ha5qdl@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>>> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> ><69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
>>> >
>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Why are so many people suckers for Chinese propaganda?
>>> >>
>>> >>There's a captive audience of 1.4 billion, to start with.
>>> >>Even just one percent fools means Trump can send a mob to bash Congress, or
>>> >>Xi can rely on a credulous 14 million audience.
>>> >
>>> >China is a great CORRUPT country and Mr Xi a great leader.,
>>>
>>> who will imprison and torture you and your family if he thinks you are
>>> criticizing him.
>>> >US is a loss making club of weapon manufacturers that tries to create wars to sell its products.
>>> >Added now the US Industrial Medical Complex selling dangerous medicines for the COVID Fauci had designed in China.
>>> >So biologcl warfare.. and now depleted Uranium, after Agent Orange in Vietnam... etc etc.
>>> >Trump was OK as he stopped the war in Afghanistan, but then the weapon manufactures manipulated the
>>> >elections so their brainless senile criminal agent BuyThen was elected to start a new war in Europe.
>>> >
>>> >US will make more and more losses as time <the little they have left> progresses,
>>> >increasing the debt limit until nobody wants to buy their debt but for some held at gunpoint like Japan.
>>> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
>>> >
>>> >Its all over for the US.
>>> No, the USA is dynamic and vital. A bit of chaos is actually good. It
>>> shakes things up, and creates ideas.
>>
>>That's a bunch of over hype. U.S. is infested with fraud of every imaginable kind and crumbling fast. They're unsustainably way
>>over extended and too stupid to realize it.
>
>By world standards, the US productive, inventive, and not very
>corrupt. The population is diverse and mobile, which has
>optimizations.
>
>We also have a fairly low proportion of depressive, frightened,
>useless old gits.

Well.. the world is changing fast, maybe you did not notice while dremmmmelinnnng
I was reading this this morning on German https://www.ard-text , the AfD in Germany is making big gains..
A statement was (in German, US people should real learn some foreign languages, Chinese and Russian will be required in your schools after your empire falls
maybe even German) :
AfD-Parteichefin Weidel hat im ARD-Sommerinterview die Ampel scharf kritisiert:
Sie stehe zu der Aussage, "dass diese Regierung idiotisch handelt".
Die Ampel-Regierung mache "Politik gegen die Mehrheit der Menschen,
die zurück zur Kernkraft will, die gegen das Verbrennermotor-Verbot ist".

You know, I agree with that statement!!!

Basically it says that the current German government is against the people who want nuclear power and normal petrol cars.
So whatever way you want to look at it, the dirty US war mongering in Ukraine stirs up ultra right in Germany and the rest of Europe.
As does the climate crap.

And more:
Im Kampf um das Oberbürgermeisteramt in Nordhausen hat der Kandidat der AfD die Stichwahl am 24. September erreicht.
Der 61 Jahre alte Unternehmer Prophet kam in Nordhausen auf 42,1% der Stimmen, wie eine Sprecherin der Stadtverwaltung mitteilte.
Er soll sich in zwei Wochen mit dem parteilosen Amtsinhaber Buchmann messen, der auf 23,7% kam.

AfD gaining big.

So when German has the bomb (I happen to know they already have a design for one ) China, France, UK, N Korea, all against those malfunctioning ICBMs with untested US nukes..
Now you can either shit you pants in fear there in the US or behave and get rid of the warmongers yourself before we do it for you
Collateral damage...

Clear?

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 3:59:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
> >> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Why are so many people suckers for Chinese propaganda?
> >> >>
> >> >>There's a captive audience of 1.4 billion, to start with.
> >> >>
> >> >>Even just one percent fools means Trump can send a mob to bash Congress, or
> >> >>Xi can rely on a credulous 14 million audience.
> >> >
> >> >China is a great CORRUPT country and Mr Xi a great leader.,
> >>
> >> who will imprison and torture you and your family if he thinks you are criticizing him.

Not exactly. He does over-react if he thinks that you are threatening the leading role of the Communist Party. He doesn't seem to be any kind of ego-maniac.

> >> >US is a loss making club of weapon manufacturers that tries to create wars to sell its products.
> >> >Added now the US Industrial Medical Complex selling dangerous medicines for the COVID Fauci had designed in China.
> >> >So biologcl warfare.. and now depleted Uranium, after Agent Orange in Vietnam... etc etc.

Jan Panteltje does believe a lot of fatuous nonsense.

> >> >Trump was OK as he stopped the war in Afghanistan, but then the weapon manufactures manipulated the
> >> >elections so their l agent Biden was elected to start a new war in Europe.

Totally fatuous nonsense.

> >> >US will make more and more losses as time <the little they have left> progresses,
> >> >increasing the debt limit until nobody wants to buy their debt but for some held at gunpoint like Japan.
> >> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
> >> >
> >> >Its all over for the US.
> >
> >> No, the USA is dynamic and vital. A bit of chaos is actually good. It shakes things up, and creates ideas.
> >That's a bunch of over hype. U.S. is infested with fraud of every imaginable kind and crumbling fast. They're unsustainably way over extended and too stupid to realize it.
>
> By world standards, the US productive, inventive, and not very corrupt.

But more corrupt and less productive and less inventive than most advanced industrial countries.

> The population is diverse and mobile, which has optimizations.

But so are the populations of most advanced industrial countries.
> We also have a fairly low proportion of depressive, frightened, useless old gits.

John Larkin has an intellectual defect - he doesn't feel fear - and imagines that it is a virtue. Most people use it to motivate reasonably careful behavior, so they don't make as many stupid mistakes as John Larkin, which generate criticism that he resent and rejects with intemperate abuse. He's not an attractive character.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

In article <1137b878-da7f-4d9f-ac61-c9f7f7ec5e67n@googlegroups.com>,
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
>Wikipedia does make an effort to get their articles right. National
>statistics on energy production tend to be pretty reliable. If you
>don't trust that data, do try to find something more reliable.

It is our responsability to fix wikipedia articles that are not
correct.

<SNIP.
>--
>Bill Sloman, Sydney
>
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:51:19 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
><vn0sfih7c67lclag870p7s942on0ha5qdl@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>>>> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> ><69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>> >
>>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Why are so many people suckers for Chinese propaganda?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>There's a captive audience of 1.4 billion, to start with.
>>>> >>Even just one percent fools means Trump can send a mob to bash Congress, or
>>>> >>Xi can rely on a credulous 14 million audience.
>>>> >
>>>> >China is a great CORRUPT country and Mr Xi a great leader.,
>>>>
>>>> who will imprison and torture you and your family if he thinks you are
>>>> criticizing him.
>>>> >US is a loss making club of weapon manufacturers that tries to create wars to sell its products.
>>>> >Added now the US Industrial Medical Complex selling dangerous medicines for the COVID Fauci had designed in China.
>>>> >So biologcl warfare.. and now depleted Uranium, after Agent Orange in Vietnam... etc etc.
>>>> >Trump was OK as he stopped the war in Afghanistan, but then the weapon manufactures manipulated the
>>>> >elections so their brainless senile criminal agent BuyThen was elected to start a new war in Europe.
>>>> >
>>>> >US will make more and more losses as time <the little they have left> progresses,
>>>> >increasing the debt limit until nobody wants to buy their debt but for some held at gunpoint like Japan.
>>>> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
>>>> >
>>>> >Its all over for the US.
>>>> No, the USA is dynamic and vital. A bit of chaos is actually good. It
>>>> shakes things up, and creates ideas.
>>>
>>>That's a bunch of over hype. U.S. is infested with fraud of every imaginable kind and crumbling fast. They're unsustainably way
>>>over extended and too stupid to realize it.
>>
>>By world standards, the US productive, inventive, and not very
>>corrupt. The population is diverse and mobile, which has
>>optimizations.
>>
>>We also have a fairly low proportion of depressive, frightened,
>>useless old gits.
>
>Well.. the world is changing fast, maybe you did not notice while dremmmmelinnnng
>I was reading this this morning on German https://www.ard-text , the AfD in Germany is making big gains..
>A statement was (in German, US people should real learn some foreign languages, Chinese and Russian will be required in your schools after your empire falls
>maybe even German) :

Google Street View is interesting. In Russia, China, Germany,
basically everywhere you look, there's a lot of English signage and
American stuff. And of course most places have lots of US-style
housing and buildings and hotels and SUVs. The American Empire is
cultural, not military.

Most Germans speak pretty good English. Lots of Russians speak
English; few Americans speak German or Russian.

I think English signage is illegal in France.

The couple next door are Romanian and Bulgarian and talk to one
another in English.

I work with a largish Dutch company and all the folks that I've met
speak good English. Ditto some French companies.

> AfD-Parteichefin Weidel hat im ARD-Sommerinterview die Ampel scharf kritisiert:
> Sie stehe zu der Aussage, "dass diese Regierung idiotisch handelt".
> Die Ampel-Regierung mache "Politik gegen die Mehrheit der Menschen,
> die zurück zur Kernkraft will, die gegen das Verbrennermotor-Verbot ist".
>
> You know, I agree with that statement!!!
>
>Basically it says that the current German government is against the people who want nuclear power and normal petrol cars.
>So whatever way you want to look at it, the dirty US war mongering in Ukraine stirs up ultra right in Germany and the rest of Europe.
>As does the climate crap.

A bunch of European countries are supporting Ukraine in this war.

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:52:15 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:51:19 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin
> ><jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
> ><vn0sfih7c67lclag8...@4ax.com>:
> >
> >>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
> >>>> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>> ><69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>> Why are so many people suckers for Chinese propaganda?
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>There's a captive audience of 1.4 billion, to start with.
> >>>> >>Even just one percent fools means Trump can send a mob to bash Congress, or
> >>>> >>Xi can rely on a credulous 14 million audience.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >China is a great CORRUPT country and Mr Xi a great leader.,
> >>>>
> >>>> who will imprison and torture you and your family if he thinks you are
> >>>> criticizing him.
> >>>> >US is a loss making club of weapon manufacturers that tries to create wars to sell its products.
> >>>> >Added now the US Industrial Medical Complex selling dangerous medicines for the COVID Fauci had designed in China.
> >>>> >So biologcl warfare.. and now depleted Uranium, after Agent Orange in Vietnam... etc etc.
> >>>> >Trump was OK as he stopped the war in Afghanistan, but then the weapon manufactures manipulated the
> >>>> >elections so their brainless senile criminal agent BuyThen was elected to start a new war in Europe.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >US will make more and more losses as time <the little they have left> progresses,
> >>>> >increasing the debt limit until nobody wants to buy their debt but for some held at gunpoint like Japan.
> >>>> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
> >>>> >
> >>>> >Its all over for the US.
> >>>> No, the USA is dynamic and vital. A bit of chaos is actually good. It
> >>>> shakes things up, and creates ideas.
> >>>
> >>>That's a bunch of over hype. U.S. is infested with fraud of every imaginable kind and crumbling fast. They're unsustainably way
> >>>over extended and too stupid to realize it.
> >>
> >>By world standards, the US productive, inventive, and not very
> >>corrupt. The population is diverse and mobile, which has
> >>optimizations.
> >>
> >>We also have a fairly low proportion of depressive, frightened,
> >>useless old gits.
> >
> >Well.. the world is changing fast, maybe you did not notice while dremmmmelinnnng
> >I was reading this this morning on German https://www.ard-text , the AfD in Germany is making big gains..
> >A statement was (in German, US people should real learn some foreign languages, Chinese and Russian will be required in your schools after your empire falls
> >maybe even German) :
> Google Street View is interesting. In Russia, China, Germany,
> basically everywhere you look, there's a lot of English signage and
> American stuff. And of course most places have lots of US-style
> housing and buildings and hotels and SUVs. The American Empire is
> cultural, not military.

You've been taken in by Russia. Last time I checked, you only have G-street view in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and they direct you where to go, you can't just turn off the highway anywhere. The whole experience is one big censor blur. It's been a few years since I used the view in Ukraine, which is all the same, there's not much to see the there. The whole place is high density urban loaded with ramshackle Commie Blocks followed up by ramshackle rural slum looking places, with nothing in between. Generally eastern Euros don't speak English, and don't want to learn it either. That part of the world is very, very dull.

>
> Most Germans speak pretty good English. Lots of Russians speak
> English; few Americans speak German or Russian.
>
> I think English signage is illegal in France.
>
> The couple next door are Romanian and Bulgarian and talk to one
> another in English.
>
> I work with a largish Dutch company and all the folks that I've met
> speak good English. Ditto some French companies.
> > AfD-Parteichefin Weidel hat im ARD-Sommerinterview die Ampel scharf kritisiert:
> > Sie stehe zu der Aussage, "dass diese Regierung idiotisch handelt".
> > Die Ampel-Regierung mache "Politik gegen die Mehrheit der Menschen,
> > die zurück zur Kernkraft will, die gegen das Verbrennermotor-Verbot ist".
> >
> > You know, I agree with that statement!!!
> >
> >Basically it says that the current German government is against the people who want nuclear power and normal petrol cars.
> >So whatever way you want to look at it, the dirty US war mongering in Ukraine stirs up ultra right in Germany and the rest of Europe.
> >As does the climate crap.
> A bunch of European countries are supporting Ukraine in this war.

Arms sales

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:52:15 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:51:19 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in <vn0sfih7c67lclag8...@4ax.com>:
> >>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
> >>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

<snip>

> Google Street View is interesting. In Russia, China, Germany, basically everywhere you look, there's a lot of English signage and American stuff.

John Larkin doesn't process the signs that aren't in English, and doesn't notice then\m.

> And of course most places have lots of US-style housing and buildings and hotels and SUVs. The American Empire is cultural, not military.

More commercial that cultural. If you want mass-produced junk, American did it first

> Most Germans speak pretty good English. Lots of Russians speak English; few Americans speak German or Russian.

Quite a few Americans speak Spanish. It's a much a mater of finding people to practice your language skills on as anything else. My Dutch is much better than my German, French or Russian (and my Russian was never up to much).
> I think English signage is illegal in France.
> The couple next door are Romanian and Bulgarian and talk to one another in English.

One of chemists I knew as kid was a Norwegian married to a German wife (whom he'd met when he was part of the occupying army in Germany in the late 1940's). The common language was French. Their kid was quadrilingual when he was smal. I've no idea how much of it stayed with him.
>
> I work with a largish Dutch company and all the folks that I've met speak good English. Ditto some French companies.
> > AfD-Parteichefin Weidel hat im ARD-Sommerinterview die Ampel scharf kritisiert:
> > Sie stehe zu der Aussage, "dass diese Regierung idiotisch handelt".
> > Die Ampel-Regierung mache "Politik gegen die Mehrheit der Menschen,
> > die zurück zur Kernkraft will, die gegen das Verbrennermotor-Verbot ist".
> >
> > You know, I agree with that statement!!!
> >
> >Basically it says that the current German government is against the people who want nuclear power and normal petrol cars.
> >So whatever way you want to look at it, the dirty US war mongering in Ukraine stirs up ultra right in Germany and the rest of Europe.
> >As does the climate crap.
>
> A bunch of European countries are supporting Ukraine in this war.

They aren't a silly as Jan Panteltje.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 07:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:52:15?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:51:19 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>> ><jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
>> ><vn0sfih7c67lclag8...@4ax.com>:
>> >
>> >>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>> >>>> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >>>> ><69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>> Why are so many people suckers for Chinese propaganda?
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>There's a captive audience of 1.4 billion, to start with.
>> >>>> >>Even just one percent fools means Trump can send a mob to bash Congress, or
>> >>>> >>Xi can rely on a credulous 14 million audience.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >China is a great CORRUPT country and Mr Xi a great leader.,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> who will imprison and torture you and your family if he thinks you are
>> >>>> criticizing him.
>> >>>> >US is a loss making club of weapon manufacturers that tries to create wars to sell its products.
>> >>>> >Added now the US Industrial Medical Complex selling dangerous medicines for the COVID Fauci had designed in China.
>> >>>> >So biologcl warfare.. and now depleted Uranium, after Agent Orange in Vietnam... etc etc.
>> >>>> >Trump was OK as he stopped the war in Afghanistan, but then the weapon manufactures manipulated the
>> >>>> >elections so their brainless senile criminal agent BuyThen was elected to start a new war in Europe.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >US will make more and more losses as time <the little they have left> progresses,
>> >>>> >increasing the debt limit until nobody wants to buy their debt but for some held at gunpoint like Japan.
>> >>>> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >Its all over for the US.
>> >>>> No, the USA is dynamic and vital. A bit of chaos is actually good. It
>> >>>> shakes things up, and creates ideas.
>> >>>
>> >>>That's a bunch of over hype. U.S. is infested with fraud of every imaginable kind and crumbling fast. They're unsustainably way
>> >>>over extended and too stupid to realize it.
>> >>
>> >>By world standards, the US productive, inventive, and not very
>> >>corrupt. The population is diverse and mobile, which has
>> >>optimizations.
>> >>
>> >>We also have a fairly low proportion of depressive, frightened,
>> >>useless old gits.
>> >
>> >Well.. the world is changing fast, maybe you did not notice while dremmmmelinnnng
>> >I was reading this this morning on German https://www.ard-text , the AfD in Germany is making big gains..
>> >A statement was (in German, US people should real learn some foreign languages, Chinese and Russian will be required in your schools after your empire falls
>> >maybe even German) :
>> Google Street View is interesting. In Russia, China, Germany,
>> basically everywhere you look, there's a lot of English signage and
>> American stuff. And of course most places have lots of US-style
>> housing and buildings and hotels and SUVs. The American Empire is
>> cultural, not military.
>
>You've been taken in by Russia. Last time I checked, you only have G-street view in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and they direct you where to go, you can't just turn off the highway anywhere. The whole experience is one big censor blur. It's been a few years since I used the view in Ukraine, which is all the same, there's not much to see the there. The whole place is high density urban loaded with ramshackle Commie Blocks followed up by ramshackle rural slum looking places, with nothing in between. Generally eastern Euros don't speak English, and don't want to learn it either. That part of the world is very, very dull.
>

Well, I spent a month in the USSR, including sleeping a time or two in
one of those giant ugly apartment blocks, and lots of people spoke
English. Now, probably more do.

Have you been to Russia?

rOn Sun, 10 Sep 2023 04:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 6:18:39?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
>> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:54:01?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 21:40:50 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
>> >> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:52:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Looks like conversion to renewables is about 10% of what it could be if the big corporate energy concerns applied for temporary rate increases to pay for the build-out. Some of the do, some of them don't. A lot of them don't want to do this because it entails a detailed audit of their finances. Seems appropriate the people who are using all this energy should pay for the required infrastructure.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-digital-roadblock-keeping-green-electricity-u-s-grid
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >The scheme about measuring the wind to calculate a new capacity for the line based on the increased heat dissipation effect is garbage.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "the U.S. goal of eliminating all planet-warming carbon emissions" is absurd, given that China is building a couple of coal-powered plants per week, and India and Africa will catch up.
>> >> >
>> >> >The absurdity is all in John Larkin's blinkered point of view.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China
>> >> >
>> >> >China is still building coal-fired power plants, but it is building wind farms and solar farms with a lot more enthusiasm. Thermal power went up by 4.7% from 2019 to 2020, wind power went up by 34.6% and solar power went up by 24.1%., The renewables are starting from a lower base but they added more wind power (71,670 MW.hr) than thermal power (56,370 MW.hr ) and almost as much solar power (48,200 MW.hr),.
>> >> >
>> >> >India and Africa are doing the same sums, and wind and solar are both cheaper and more modular routes to more electric power.
>> >
>> > I shifted boBs reaction down to where he should have posted it.
>> >
>> >> From Wikipedia...
>> >>
>> >> "Most of the electricity in China comes from coal, which accounted for
>> >> 62% of the electricity generation mix in 2021"
>> >>
>> >> I hope they ARE enthusiastic enough before it is too late ?
>> >>
>> >> From Wikipedia again...
>> >> "China has abundant energy with the world's fourth-largest coal
>> >> reserves and massive hydroelectric resources."
>> >
>> >Of course that's all from the Wikipedia link that I posted, but ignores the data I pulled from it to make the point that China is moving it electricity generation from coal to renewables. which boB hadn't bothered to read.
>> >
>> >> Why do I still see and sometimes have to still stop for coal trains = here north of Seattle where I know it is going to China ?
>> >>
>> >> Maybe China can't dig enough of their own coal ?
>> >
>> >If you weren't quite so enthusiastic about confirming your own prejudices, you might be able to realise that China is moving it's electricity generation away from burning coal. They are aware that burning coal does have unfortunate side effects, and that the electricity you produce that way is more expensive than you get from renewable sources.

I know myself. Maybe you should look into your own prejudices as
well.

China is still buying coal from the US.

>> >
>> >You are making the same mistake as John Larkin, and seem equally unwilling to correct your opinions.
>>
>> I would really love to believe China is doing the right thing, and maybe they really are moving as fast as you or Wikipedia says they are. I hope the data in that article is trustworthy.
>
>Wikipedia does make an effort to get their articles right. National statistics on energy production tend to be pretty reliable. If you don't trust that data, do try to find something more reliable.

Yes, I know they try and I also try to help Wikipedia personally when
I see something wrong. But the CCP MAY just have a bit of influence
on the accuracy. No idea how much, but I know Wiki tries, as they
should, to keep it accurate.

>
>China really is making 80% of all the solar cells being manufactured all around the world at the moment, and they had to invest a lot of money in manufacturing at ten times the scale that anybody else had. This did let them halve the unit price and dominate the market, so it was a profitable investment.

And they should keep making cells for cheap while we try to have some
kind of backup at some price of course.

The rest of the world isn't going to be able to do without China and
China needs our sales, too. The CCP subsidises these markets which is
fine by me if they do a good job, which it looks like they certainly
do.

>
>> I am in the renewable energy business BTW, but these types of facts and figures aren't part of my work. I like Chinese but the CCP really tries to hide truth.
>
>The CCP isn't candid, but in this area they don't seem to have anything to hide. Their don't have a lot of spare food production capacity, and climate change could well leave them in famine.

The CCP is trying to hide things from others and their own people. I"m
sure you must know this ? Don't hide your head in the sand, if you
do....

>
>> I'm just done trying to predict the future... I need to retire and then maybe I can pay better attention.
>
>Nobody is asking you to predict the future, but it would be nice if you were more careful about what you say about the present.
>
>> God help us all.
>
>Not a policy that works all that well. People that look after themselves and their environment do seem to do better than those who rely on God to do it for therm.

And how well is man doing at all of this ? Pull out all of the stops
while also believing we can make the right changes and both may help.

If you don't believe you can help, then why even try ?

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:40:24 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 07:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:52:15?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:51:19 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin
> >> ><jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
> >> ><vn0sfih7c67lclag8...@4ax.com>:
> >> >
> >> >>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
> >> >>>> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >>>> ><69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>> Why are so many people suckers for Chinese propaganda?
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>There's a captive audience of 1.4 billion, to start with.
> >> >>>> >>Even just one percent fools means Trump can send a mob to bash Congress, or
> >> >>>> >>Xi can rely on a credulous 14 million audience.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >China is a great CORRUPT country and Mr Xi a great leader.,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> who will imprison and torture you and your family if he thinks you are
> >> >>>> criticizing him.
> >> >>>> >US is a loss making club of weapon manufacturers that tries to create wars to sell its products.
> >> >>>> >Added now the US Industrial Medical Complex selling dangerous medicines for the COVID Fauci had designed in China.
> >> >>>> >So biologcl warfare.. and now depleted Uranium, after Agent Orange in Vietnam... etc etc.
> >> >>>> >Trump was OK as he stopped the war in Afghanistan, but then the weapon manufactures manipulated the
> >> >>>> >elections so their brainless senile criminal agent BuyThen was elected to start a new war in Europe.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >US will make more and more losses as time <the little they have left> progresses,
> >> >>>> >increasing the debt limit until nobody wants to buy their debt but for some held at gunpoint like Japan.
> >> >>>> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >Its all over for the US.
> >> >>>> No, the USA is dynamic and vital. A bit of chaos is actually good.. It
> >> >>>> shakes things up, and creates ideas.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>That's a bunch of over hype. U.S. is infested with fraud of every imaginable kind and crumbling fast. They're unsustainably way
> >> >>>over extended and too stupid to realize it.
> >> >>
> >> >>By world standards, the US productive, inventive, and not very
> >> >>corrupt. The population is diverse and mobile, which has
> >> >>optimizations.
> >> >>
> >> >>We also have a fairly low proportion of depressive, frightened,
> >> >>useless old gits.
> >> >
> >> >Well.. the world is changing fast, maybe you did not notice while dremmmmelinnnng
> >> >I was reading this this morning on German https://www.ard-text , the AfD in Germany is making big gains..
> >> >A statement was (in German, US people should real learn some foreign languages, Chinese and Russian will be required in your schools after your empire falls
> >> >maybe even German) :
> >> Google Street View is interesting. In Russia, China, Germany,
> >> basically everywhere you look, there's a lot of English signage and
> >> American stuff. And of course most places have lots of US-style
> >> housing and buildings and hotels and SUVs. The American Empire is
> >> cultural, not military.
> >
> >You've been taken in by Russia. Last time I checked, you only have G-street view in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and they direct you where to go, you can't just turn off the highway anywhere. The whole experience is one big censor blur. It's been a few years since I used the view in Ukraine, which is all the same, there's not much to see the there. The whole place is high density urban loaded with ramshackle Commie Blocks followed up by ramshackle rural slum looking places, with nothing in between. Generally eastern Euros don't speak English, and don't want to learn it either. That part of the world is very, very dull.
> >
> Well, I spent a month in the USSR, including sleeping a time or two in
> one of those giant ugly apartment blocks, and lots of people spoke
> English. Now, probably more do.
>
> Have you been to Russia?

That 'bunch' of people were KGB. Every single interface you had was carefully orchestrated. You were being interviewed.

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 16:10:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:40:24?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 07:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:52:15?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:51:19 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>> >> ><jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
>> >> ><vn0sfih7c67lclag8...@4ax.com>:
>> >> >
>> >> >>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> >><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>> >> >>>> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >>>> ><69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >>> Why are so many people suckers for Chinese propaganda?
>> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>>> >>There's a captive audience of 1.4 billion, to start with.
>> >> >>>> >>Even just one percent fools means Trump can send a mob to bash Congress, or
>> >> >>>> >>Xi can rely on a credulous 14 million audience.
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >China is a great CORRUPT country and Mr Xi a great leader.,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> who will imprison and torture you and your family if he thinks you are
>> >> >>>> criticizing him.
>> >> >>>> >US is a loss making club of weapon manufacturers that tries to create wars to sell its products.
>> >> >>>> >Added now the US Industrial Medical Complex selling dangerous medicines for the COVID Fauci had designed in China.
>> >> >>>> >So biologcl warfare.. and now depleted Uranium, after Agent Orange in Vietnam... etc etc.
>> >> >>>> >Trump was OK as he stopped the war in Afghanistan, but then the weapon manufactures manipulated the
>> >> >>>> >elections so their brainless senile criminal agent BuyThen was elected to start a new war in Europe.
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >US will make more and more losses as time <the little they have left> progresses,
>> >> >>>> >increasing the debt limit until nobody wants to buy their debt but for some held at gunpoint like Japan.
>> >> >>>> > https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >Its all over for the US.
>> >> >>>> No, the USA is dynamic and vital. A bit of chaos is actually good. It
>> >> >>>> shakes things up, and creates ideas.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>That's a bunch of over hype. U.S. is infested with fraud of every imaginable kind and crumbling fast. They're unsustainably way
>> >> >>>over extended and too stupid to realize it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>By world standards, the US productive, inventive, and not very
>> >> >>corrupt. The population is diverse and mobile, which has
>> >> >>optimizations.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>We also have a fairly low proportion of depressive, frightened,
>> >> >>useless old gits.
>> >> >
>> >> >Well.. the world is changing fast, maybe you did not notice while dremmmmelinnnng
>> >> >I was reading this this morning on German https://www.ard-text , the AfD in Germany is making big gains..
>> >> >A statement was (in German, US people should real learn some foreign languages, Chinese and Russian will be required in your schools after your empire falls
>> >> >maybe even German) :
>> >> Google Street View is interesting. In Russia, China, Germany,
>> >> basically everywhere you look, there's a lot of English signage and
>> >> American stuff. And of course most places have lots of US-style
>> >> housing and buildings and hotels and SUVs. The American Empire is
>> >> cultural, not military.
>> >
>> >You've been taken in by Russia. Last time I checked, you only have G-street view in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and they direct you where to go, you can't just turn off the highway anywhere. The whole experience is one big censor blur. It's been a few years since I used the view in Ukraine, which is all the same, there's not much to see the there. The whole place is high density urban loaded with ramshackle Commie Blocks followed up by ramshackle rural slum looking places, with nothing in between. Generally eastern Euros don't speak English, and don't want to learn it either. That part of the world is very, very dull.
>> >
>> Well, I spent a month in the USSR, including sleeping a time or two in
>> one of those giant ugly apartment blocks, and lots of people spoke
>> English. Now, probably more do.
>>
>> Have you been to Russia?
>
>That 'bunch' of people were KGB. Every single interface you had was carefully orchestrated. You were being interviewed.

Actually, no. I was hanging out with a musician and his friends. At
the time, musicians were about the only self-employed free-lancers in
the USSR.

The KGB didn't care about people like us. They didn't have the
resources.

It was interesting.

Have you been to Russia? You sure sound like an authority.

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:20:23 AM UTC+10, boB wrote:
> rOn Sun, 10 Sep 2023 04:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 6:18:39?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
> >> On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
> >> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:54:01?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 21:40:50 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
> >> >> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:52:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Looks like conversion to renewables is about 10% of what it could be if the big corporate energy concerns applied for temporary rate increases to pay for the build-out. Some of the do, some of them don't. A lot of them don't want to do this because it entails a detailed audit of their finances. Seems appropriate the people who are using all this energy should pay for the required infrastructure.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-digital-roadblock-keeping-green-electricity-u-s-grid
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >The scheme about measuring the wind to calculate a new capacity for the line based on the increased heat dissipation effect is garbage.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "the U.S. goal of eliminating all planet-warming carbon emissions" is absurd, given that China is building a couple of coal-powered plants per week, and India and Africa will catch up.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The absurdity is all in John Larkin's blinkered point of view.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China
> >> >> >
> >> >> >China is still building coal-fired power plants, but it is building wind farms and solar farms with a lot more enthusiasm. Thermal power went up by 4.7% from 2019 to 2020, wind power went up by 34.6% and solar power went up by 24.1%., The renewables are starting from a lower base but they added more wind power (71,670 MW.hr) than thermal power (56,370 MW.hr ) and almost as much solar power (48,200 MW.hr),.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >India and Africa are doing the same sums, and wind and solar are both cheaper and more modular routes to more electric power.
> >> >
> >> > I shifted boBs reaction down to where he should have posted it.
> >> >
> >> >> From Wikipedia...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Most of the electricity in China comes from coal, which accounted for
> >> >> 62% of the electricity generation mix in 2021"
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope they ARE enthusiastic enough before it is too late ?
> >> >>
> >> >> From Wikipedia again...
> >> >> "China has abundant energy with the world's fourth-largest coal
> >> >> reserves and massive hydroelectric resources."
> >> >
> >> >Of course that's all from the Wikipedia link that I posted, but ignores the data I pulled from it to make the point that China is moving it electricity generation from coal to renewables. which boB hadn't bothered to read.
> >> >
> >> >> Why do I still see and sometimes have to still stop for coal trains = here north of Seattle where I know it is going to China ?
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe China can't dig enough of their own coal ?
> >> >
> >> >If you weren't quite so enthusiastic about confirming your own prejudices, you might be able to realise that China is moving it's electricity generation away from burning coal. They are aware that burning coal does have unfortunate side effects, and that the electricity you produce that way is more expensive than you get from renewable sources.
>
> I know myself. Maybe you should look into your own prejudices as well.

I do worry about them, but since they mainly motivate me to find reliable information so I don't look like an idiot, they probably aren't a problem here.

> China is still buying coal from the US.

And Australia. They do manufacture a lot of stuff and they do have to keep the production lines rolling.

> >> >You are making the same mistake as John Larkin, and seem equally unwilling to correct your opinions.
> >>
> >> I would really love to believe China is doing the right thing, and maybe they really are moving as fast as you or Wikipedia says they are. I hope the data in that article is trustworthy.
> >
> >Wikipedia does make an effort to get their articles right. National statistics on energy production tend to be pretty reliable. If you don't trust that data, do try to find something more reliable.
>
> Yes, I know they try and I also try to help Wikipedia personally when I see something wrong. But the CCP MAY just have a bit of influence on the accuracy. No idea how much, but I know Wiki tries, as they should, to keep it accurate.

Energy statistics are part of the national economy and the Chinese national economy interacts with the rest of the world on a very large scale.

> >China really is making 80% of all the solar cells being manufactured all around the world at the moment, and they had to invest a lot of money in manufacturing at ten times the scale that anybody else had. This did let them halve the unit price and dominate the market, so it was a profitable investment.

> And they should keep making cells for cheap while we try to have some kind of backup at some price of course.

There's nothing to stop anybody else pulling the same trick - if they can put together the mass of capital required. If they spent enough to manufacture on an even larger scale they could undercut the Chineses plants and make them a whole lot less profitable - which is what China did to the German solar cell industry.

> The rest of the world isn't going to be able to do without China and China needs our sales, too. The CCP subsidises these markets which is fine by me if they do a good job, which it looks like they certainly do.

The Chinese chose to mass produce a superior solar cell invented at the University of NSW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Green_(professor)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Wenham
> >> I am in the renewable energy business BTW, but these types of facts and figures aren't part of my work. I like Chinese but the CCP really tries to hide truth.
> >
> >The CCP isn't candid, but in this area they don't seem to have anything to hide. Their don't have a lot of spare food production capacity, and climate change could well leave them in famine.
>
> The CCP is trying to hide things from others and their own people. I"m sure you must know this ? Don't hide your head in the sand, if you do....

The CCP is a government, and governments always try to hide stuff, and rarely succeed.
> >> I'm just done trying to predict the future... I need to retire and then maybe I can pay better attention.
> >
> >Nobody is asking you to predict the future, but it would be nice if you were more careful about what you say about the present.
> >
> >> God help us all.
> >
> >Not a policy that works all that well. People that look after themselves and their environment do seem to do better than those who rely on God to do it for therm.
>
> And how well is man doing at all of this ? Pull out all of the stops while also believing we can make the right changes and both may help.
>
> If you don't believe you can help, then why even try?

I believe that the little I can do can help, even if it is only correcting some silly ideas and the occasional foolish misconception.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 9:10:30 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 10:40:24 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 07:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:52:15?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 04:51:19 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> > >> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 10:59:15 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jjla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in <vn0sfih7c67lclag8...@4ax.com>:
> > >> >>On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 08:25:51 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 11:10:38?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > >> >>>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 11:00:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
> > >> >>>> >On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Sep 2023 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <69d0aff2-0b51-4f79...@googlegroups.com>:
> > >> >>>> >>On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:15:09?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

<snip>

> > Well, I spent a month in the USSR, including sleeping a time or two in
> > one of those giant ugly apartment blocks, and lots of people spoke
> > English. Now, probably more do.
> >
> > Have you been to Russia?
>
> That 'bunch' of people were KGB. Every single interface you had was carefully orchestrated. You were being interviewed.

This is John Larkin. They wouldn't have bothered.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 23:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:20:23?AM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> rOn Sun, 10 Sep 2023 04:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
>> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 6:18:39?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
>> >> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:54:01?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 21:40:50 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
>> >> >> <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:52:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Looks like conversion to renewables is about 10% of what it could be if the big corporate energy concerns applied for temporary rate increases to pay for the build-out. Some of the do, some of them don't. A lot of them don't want to do this because it entails a detailed audit of their finances. Seems appropriate the people who are using all this energy should pay for the required infrastructure.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-digital-roadblock-keeping-green-electricity-u-s-grid
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >The scheme about measuring the wind to calculate a new capacity for the line based on the increased heat dissipation effect is garbage.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "the U.S. goal of eliminating all planet-warming carbon emissions" is absurd, given that China is building a couple of coal-powered plants per week, and India and Africa will catch up.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >The absurdity is all in John Larkin's blinkered point of view.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >China is still building coal-fired power plants, but it is building wind farms and solar farms with a lot more enthusiasm. Thermal power went up by 4.7% from 2019 to 2020, wind power went up by 34.6% and solar power went up by 24.1%., The renewables are starting from a lower base but they added more wind power (71,670 MW.hr) than thermal power (56,370 MW.hr ) and almost as much solar power (48,200 MW.hr),.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >India and Africa are doing the same sums, and wind and solar are both cheaper and more modular routes to more electric power.
>> >> >
>> >> > I shifted boBs reaction down to where he should have posted it.
>> >> >
>> >> >> From Wikipedia...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Most of the electricity in China comes from coal, which accounted for
>> >> >> 62% of the electricity generation mix in 2021"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I hope they ARE enthusiastic enough before it is too late ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From Wikipedia again...
>> >> >> "China has abundant energy with the world's fourth-largest coal
>> >> >> reserves and massive hydroelectric resources."
>> >> >
>> >> >Of course that's all from the Wikipedia link that I posted, but ignores the data I pulled from it to make the point that China is moving it electricity generation from coal to renewables. which boB hadn't bothered to read.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Why do I still see and sometimes have to still stop for coal trains = here north of Seattle where I know it is going to China ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Maybe China can't dig enough of their own coal ?
>> >> >
>> >> >If you weren't quite so enthusiastic about confirming your own prejudices, you might be able to realise that China is moving it's electricity generation away from burning coal. They are aware that burning coal does have unfortunate side effects, and that the electricity you produce that way is more expensive than you get from renewable sources.
>>
>> I know myself. Maybe you should look into your own prejudices as well.
>
>I do worry about them, but since they mainly motivate me to find reliable information so I don't look like an idiot, they probably aren't a problem here.
>
>> China is still buying coal from the US.
>
>And Australia. They do manufacture a lot of stuff and they do have to keep the production lines rolling.
>
>> >> >You are making the same mistake as John Larkin, and seem equally unwilling to correct your opinions.
>> >>
>> >> I would really love to believe China is doing the right thing, and maybe they really are moving as fast as you or Wikipedia says they are. I hope the data in that article is trustworthy.
>> >
>> >Wikipedia does make an effort to get their articles right. National statistics on energy production tend to be pretty reliable. If you don't trust that data, do try to find something more reliable.
>>
>> Yes, I know they try and I also try to help Wikipedia personally when I see something wrong. But the CCP MAY just have a bit of influence on the accuracy. No idea how much, but I know Wiki tries, as they should, to keep it accurate.
>
>Energy statistics are part of the national economy and the Chinese national economy interacts with the rest of the world on a very large scale.
>
>> >China really is making 80% of all the solar cells being manufactured all around the world at the moment, and they had to invest a lot of money in manufacturing at ten times the scale that anybody else had. This did let them halve the unit price and dominate the market, so it was a profitable investment.
>
>> And they should keep making cells for cheap while we try to have some kind of backup at some price of course.
>
>There's nothing to stop anybody else pulling the same trick - if they can put together the mass of capital required. If they spent enough to manufacture on an even larger scale they could undercut the Chineses plants and make them a whole lot less profitable - which is what China did to the German solar cell industry.
>
>> The rest of the world isn't going to be able to do without China and China needs our sales, too. The CCP subsidises these markets which is fine by me if they do a good job, which it looks like they certainly do.
>
>The Chinese chose to mass produce a superior solar cell invented at the University of NSW
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Green_(professor)
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Wenham
>
>> >> I am in the renewable energy business BTW, but these types of facts and figures aren't part of my work. I like Chinese but the CCP really tries to hide truth.
>> >
>> >The CCP isn't candid, but in this area they don't seem to have anything to hide. Their don't have a lot of spare food production capacity, and climate change could well leave them in famine.
>>
>> The CCP is trying to hide things from others and their own people. I"m sure you must know this ? Don't hide your head in the sand, if you do....
>
>The CCP is a government, and governments always try to hide stuff, and rarely succeed.
>
>> >> I'm just done trying to predict the future... I need to retire and then maybe I can pay better attention.
>> >
>> >Nobody is asking you to predict the future, but it would be nice if you were more careful about what you say about the present.
>> >
>> >> God help us all.
>> >
>> >Not a policy that works all that well. People that look after themselves and their environment do seem to do better than those who rely on God to do it for therm.
>>
>> And how well is man doing at all of this ? Pull out all of the stops while also believing we can make the right changes and both may help.
>>
>> If you don't believe you can help, then why even try?
>
>I believe that the little I can do can help, even if it is only correcting some silly ideas and the occasional foolish misconception.

We're all big boys and can (hopefully) make the best decisions towards
the betterment of our world and still believe what we want to believe.

As long as it doesn't harm others.

Visualize Whirled Peas

On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:14:48 AM UTC+10, boB wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 23:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill.....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:20:23?AM UTC+10, boB wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 04:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill.....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 6:18:39?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:54:01?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 21:40:50 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:52:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs..fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> >I believe that the little I can do can help, even if it is only correcting some silly ideas and the occasional foolish misconception.
>
> We're all big boys and can (hopefully) make the best decisions towards the betterment of our world and still believe what we want to believe.

Sadly, believing what you want to believe and making good decisions aren't necessarily compatible. John Larkin and Flyguy want to believe that anthropogenic global warming is some kind of hoax, which gets in the way of their supporting actions that might slow it down or reverse it.
> As long as it doesn't harm others.

Quite a few deluded ideas do harm other people. Look Donald Trump.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 18:17:03 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:14:48?AM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 23:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 8:20:23?AM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 10 Sep 2023 04:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >> >On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 6:18:39?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:54:01?PM UTC+10, boB wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 21:40:50 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:52:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> >I believe that the little I can do can help, even if it is only correcting some silly ideas and the occasional foolish misconception.
>>
>> We're all big boys and can (hopefully) make the best decisions towards the betterment of our world and still believe what we want to believe.
>
>Sadly, believing what you want to believe and making good decisions aren't necessarily compatible. John Larkin and Flyguy want to believe that anthropogenic global warming is some kind of hoax, which gets in the way of their supporting actions that might slow it down or reverse it.
>
>> As long as it doesn't harm others.
>
>Quite a few deluded ideas do harm other people. Look Donald Trump.

I'd rather not.