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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Observation - order or chaos

Observation - order or chaos

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Subject: Observation - order or chaos
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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by: Maciej Wozniak - Tue, 19 Dec 2023 11:20 UTC

Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
unpredictable.

So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
former. You can never know what an observer
will REALLY observe, you can only have some
guesses about it. What science wants to get
is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
better-or-worse-optimized description.

Re: Observation - order or chaos

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From: chris.m....@gmail.com (Chris M. Thomasson)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Observation - order or chaos
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by: Chris M. Thomasson - Wed, 20 Dec 2023 01:02 UTC

On 12/19/2023 3:20 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
> algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
> Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
> They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
> mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
> that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
> oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
> for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
> unpredictable.
>
> So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
> former. You can never know what an observer
> will REALLY observe, you can only have some
> guesses about it. What science wants to get
> is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
> better-or-worse-optimized description.

Have you ever played the chaos game? It's pretty fun!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_game

Re: Observation - order or chaos

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Subject: Re: Observation - order or chaos
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 20 Dec 2023 05:09 UTC

On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 02:02:19 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/19/2023 3:20 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> > Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
> > algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
> > Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
> > They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
> > mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
> > that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
> > oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
> > for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
> > unpredictable.
> >
> > So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
> > former. You can never know what an observer
> > will REALLY observe, you can only have some
> > guesses about it. What science wants to get
> > is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
> > better-or-worse-optimized description.
> Have you ever played the chaos game? It's pretty fun!

And how about something about the subject?

Re: Observation - order or chaos

<ulttm5$ecju$1@dont-email.me>

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From: chris.m....@gmail.com (Chris M. Thomasson)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Observation - order or chaos
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by: Chris M. Thomasson - Wed, 20 Dec 2023 05:22 UTC

On 12/19/2023 9:09 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 02:02:19 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 12/19/2023 3:20 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>> Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
>>> algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
>>> Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
>>> They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
>>> mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
>>> that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
>>> oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
>>> for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
>>> unpredictable.
>>>
>>> So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
>>> former. You can never know what an observer
>>> will REALLY observe, you can only have some
>>> guesses about it. What science wants to get
>>> is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
>>> better-or-worse-optimized description.
>> Have you ever played the chaos game? It's pretty fun!
>
> And how about something about the subject?

The chaos game is not related to your question:

Order or chaos?

Re: Observation - order or chaos

<ulttml$ecju$2@dont-email.me>

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From: chris.m....@gmail.com (Chris M. Thomasson)
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Subject: Re: Observation - order or chaos
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by: Chris M. Thomasson - Wed, 20 Dec 2023 05:22 UTC

On 12/19/2023 9:22 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/19/2023 9:09 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>> On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 02:02:19 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson
>> wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2023 3:20 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>>> Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
>>>> algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
>>>> Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
>>>> They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
>>>> mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
>>>> that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
>>>> oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
>>>> for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
>>>> unpredictable.
>>>>
>>>> So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
>>>> former. You can never know what an observer
>>>> will REALLY observe, you can only have some
>>>> guesses about it. What science wants to get
>>>> is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
>>>> better-or-worse-optimized description.
>>> Have you ever played the chaos game? It's pretty fun!
>>
>> And how about something about the subject?
>
> The chaos game is not related to your question:
>
> Order or chaos?

Are you sure?

Re: Observation - order or chaos

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Subject: Re: Observation - order or chaos
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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by: Maciej Wozniak - Wed, 20 Dec 2023 05:49 UTC

On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 06:22:18 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/19/2023 9:09 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 02:02:19 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >> On 12/19/2023 3:20 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> >>> Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
> >>> algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
> >>> Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
> >>> They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
> >>> mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
> >>> that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
> >>> oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
> >>> for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
> >>> unpredictable.
> >>>
> >>> So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
> >>> former. You can never know what an observer
> >>> will REALLY observe, you can only have some
> >>> guesses about it. What science wants to get
> >>> is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
> >>> better-or-worse-optimized description.
> >> Have you ever played the chaos game? It's pretty fun!
> >
> > And how about something about the subject?
> The chaos game is not related to your question:
>
> Order or chaos?

My question is different, it is: Observation - order or chaos.

Re: Observation - order or chaos

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From: chris.m....@gmail.com (Chris M. Thomasson)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Observation - order or chaos
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by: Chris M. Thomasson - Wed, 20 Dec 2023 21:14 UTC

On 12/19/2023 9:49 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 06:22:18 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 12/19/2023 9:09 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 02:02:19 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/2023 3:20 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>>>> Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
>>>>> algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
>>>>> Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
>>>>> They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
>>>>> mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
>>>>> that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
>>>>> oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
>>>>> for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
>>>>> unpredictable.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
>>>>> former. You can never know what an observer
>>>>> will REALLY observe, you can only have some
>>>>> guesses about it. What science wants to get
>>>>> is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
>>>>> better-or-worse-optimized description.
>>>> Have you ever played the chaos game? It's pretty fun!
>>>
>>> And how about something about the subject?
>> The chaos game is not related to your question:
>>
>> Order or chaos?
>
> My question is different, it is: Observation - order or chaos.
>
>

When I observe the chaos game, at first it can look chaotic, however,
when it runs for say, a billion iterations, we can see the order...

Re: Observation - order or chaos

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Subject: Re: Observation - order or chaos
From: maluwozn...@gmail.com (Maciej Wozniak)
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by: Maciej Wozniak - Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:13 UTC

On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 22:14:09 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/19/2023 9:49 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> > On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 06:22:18 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >> On 12/19/2023 9:09 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday 20 December 2023 at 02:02:19 UTC+1, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >>>> On 12/19/2023 3:20 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> >>>>> Apart of mathematical, strict and predictable
> >>>>> algorithms, basing on order - there are others.
> >>>>> Ant algorithm, evolutionary algorithm, and more.
> >>>>> They shouldn't be called algorithms, IMO, they're
> >>>>> mot matching the definition, but I won't insist on
> >>>>> that; they exist, they're not basing on order but
> >>>>> oppositely - on chaos, they give solutions, mostly
> >>>>> for optimizing-like problems.And they are -
> >>>>> unpredictable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, observation. Order or chaos? Of course, the
> >>>>> former. You can never know what an observer
> >>>>> will REALLY observe, you can only have some
> >>>>> guesses about it. What science wants to get
> >>>>> is not one-and-only-right description, it's an
> >>>>> better-or-worse-optimized description.
> >>>> Have you ever played the chaos game? It's pretty fun!
> >>>
> >>> And how about something about the subject?
> >> The chaos game is not related to your question:
> >>
> >> Order or chaos?
> >
> > My question is different, it is: Observation - order or chaos.
> >
> >
> When I observe the chaos game, at first it can look chaotic, however,
> when it runs for say, a billion iterations, we can see the order...

The holy bible says: search, and you will find.
And how about ant "algorithm"? Or evolutionary?

Subject	Author
Observation - order or chaos	Maciej Wozniak
Re: Observation - order or chaos	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Observation - order or chaos	Maciej Wozniak
Re: Observation - order or chaos	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Observation - order or chaos	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Observation - order or chaos	Maciej Wozniak
Re: Observation - order or chaos	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Observation - order or chaos	Maciej Wozniak