https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
"Secretory Blinken"

Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
secretary?

Or just an incidental, unusual error?

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
> At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
> "Secretory Blinken"
>
> Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
> secretary?
>
> Or just an incidental, unusual error?
>
A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)

A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..

A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
to keep secrets.

How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
haven't explored.

Wed, 13 Apr 2022 19:13:59 -0700 (PDT): Dingbat
<ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> scribeva:

>On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
>> At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
>> "Secretory Blinken"
>>
>> Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>> secretary?
>>
>> Or just an incidental, unusual error?
>>
>A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
>
>A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
>surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
>
>A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
>to keep secrets.
>
>How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
>haven't explored.

And how it can mean what we call minister, and a minister is a dominee
in Dutch, which is not a domina.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:11:35 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com>
scribeva:

>https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
>At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
>"Secretory Blinken"
>
>Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>secretary?
>
>Or just an incidental, unusual error?

In British English, the word has three syllables:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/secretary

In American English, the word has four syllables, with a secondary
stress on the syllable that is missing or compressed in British:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secretary

When the r in that syllable becomes more conspicuous, as in the speech
of some Americans, it can almost sound like -or- to my ears, although
it probably isn't. I hear that tendency, although not as clear as in
the speech of the general, also in the example by Merriam Webster.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 7:14:02 PM UTC-7, Dingbat wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
> > At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
> > "Secretory Blinken"
> >
> > Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
> > secretary?
> >
> > Or just an incidental, unusual error?
> >
> A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
>
> A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
> surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
>
> A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
> to keep secrets.
>
> How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
> haven't explored.

In the mid-20th century in the U.S. and Canada -- I don't know about
elsewhere -- secretary was the highest job title women could aspire
to in many business bureaucracies. Another analyses used "the glass
ceiling" to define how high women could rise in bureaucracies. Those
things began to break down with the wave of feminism that started
in the 1960s, with roots back to earlier times.

I don't think that process of breaking down barriers is complete yet.

bill

* Dingbat:

> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
>> At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
>> "Secretory Blinken"
>>
>> Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>> secretary?
>>
>> Or just an incidental, unusual error?
>>
> A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
>
> A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
> surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
>
> A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
> to keep secrets.
>
> How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
> haven't explored.

From confidante to assistant seems obvious.

I believe that in some jurisdictions, high-ranking people working under
a minister are called secretaries of state (as also in German); maybe
they used to be classified as assistants to the minister.

That the US has only one secretary of state, with the rank of a minister
and a specific portfolio that's not named in the name is an oddity and
translation challenge (in German, we usually just call them the foreign
minister). If there's an "assistant" meaning behind that, it was
probably as an assistant to the president.

--
George: You don't know these people. They find emotions disgusting.
They just want to have a good time and make jokes.
Mae: Oh, so they're British?
-- Feel Good

Le jeudi 14 avril 2022 à 04:14:02 UTC+2, Dingbat a écrit :
> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
> > At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
> > "Secretory Blinken"
> >
> > Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
> > secretary?
> >
> > Or just an incidental, unusual error?
> >
> A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
>
> A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
> surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
>
> A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
> to keep secrets.
>
> How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
> haven't explored.

Latin had "secretarius" (masculine) for the person, and "secretarium"
(neuter) for a secret (secluded) place, so that the gender inflection
itself differentiated the two. Now in English, as the -ary suffix is
gender-neutral, the same word has designated the two notions
(ditto in French with "secrétaire", BTW) - as simple as that.

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-7, Quinn C wrote:
> * Dingbat:
> > On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
> >> At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
> >> "Secretory Blinken"
> >>
> >> Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
> >> secretary?
> >>
> >> Or just an incidental, unusual error?
> >>
> > A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
> >
> > A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
> > surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
> >
> > A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
> > to keep secrets.
> >
> > How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
> > haven't explored.
> From confidante to assistant seems obvious.
>
>
Middle English secretarie from Medieval Latin sēcrētārius confidential officer, clerk from Latin sēcrētus secret secret
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition
From Medieval Latin secretarius (“one entrusted with secrets" ), from Latin secretus (“private, secret" ), past participle of secernere (“to separate, set apart" ), from se- (“apart" ) + cernere (“to separate").
<https://www.yourdictionary.com/secretary>
>
>
> I believe that in some jurisdictions, high-ranking people working under
> a minister are called secretaries of state (as also in German); maybe
> they used to be classified as assistants to the minister.
>
> That the US has only one secretary of state, with the rank of a minister
> and a specific portfolio that's not named in the name is an oddity and
> translation challenge (in German, we usually just call them the foreign
> minister). If there's an "assistant" meaning behind that, it was
> probably as an assistant to the president.
>
> --
> George: You don't know these people. They find emotions disgusting.
> They just want to have a good time and make jokes.
> Mae: Oh, so they're British?
> -- Feel Good

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 6:14:36 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> Le jeudi 14 avril 2022 à 04:14:02 UTC+2, Dingbat a écrit :
> > On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > > https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
> > > At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
> > > "Secretory Blinken"
> > >
> > > Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
> > > secretary?
> > >
> > > Or just an incidental, unusual error?
> > >
> > A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
> >
> > A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
> > surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
> >
> > A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
> > to keep secrets.
> >
> > How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
> > haven't explored.
> Latin had "secretarius" (masculine) for the person, and "secretarium"
> (neuter) for a secret (secluded) place, so that the gender inflection
> itself differentiated the two. Now in English, as the -ary suffix is
> gender-neutral, the same word has designated the two notions
> (ditto in French with "secrétaire", BTW) - as simple as that.

Cachette is the French word for Latin secretarium.

Secrétaire is not an alternative to Cachette per Collins' dictionary.

Le samedi 16 avril 2022 à 06:53:50 UTC+2, Dingbat a écrit :
> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 6:14:36 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le jeudi 14 avril 2022 à 04:14:02 UTC+2, Dingbat a écrit :
> > > On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > > > https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
> > > > At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
> > > > "Secretory Blinken"
> > > >
> > > > Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
> > > > secretary?
> > > >
> > > > Or just an incidental, unusual error?
> > > >
> > > A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
> > >
> > > A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
> > > surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
> > >
> > > A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
> > > to keep secrets.
> > >
> > > How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
> > > haven't explored.
> > Latin had "secretarius" (masculine) for the person, and "secretarium"
> > (neuter) for a secret (secluded) place, so that the gender inflection
> > itself differentiated the two. Now in English, as the -ary suffix is
> > gender-neutral, the same word has designated the two notions
> > (ditto in French with "secrétaire", BTW) - as simple as that.
> Cachette is the French word for Latin secretarium.
>
> Secrétaire is not an alternative to Cachette per Collins' dictionary..

Not all cachettes are secrétaires, but secrétaires are a form
of cachette in that they have concealed drawers or niches.

bil...@shaw.ca wrote on 4/14/2022 :
> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 7:14:02 PM UTC-7, Dingbat wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
>>> At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
>>> "Secretory Blinken"
>>>
>>> Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>>> secretary?
>>>
>>> Or just an incidental, unusual error?
>>>
>> A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
>>
>> A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
>> surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
>>
>> A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted
>> to keep secrets.
>>
>> How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
>> haven't explored.
>
> In the mid-20th century in the U.S. and Canada -- I don't know about
> elsewhere -- secretary was the highest job title women could aspire
> to in many business bureaucracies. Another analyses used "the glass
> ceiling" to define how high women could rise in bureaucracies. Those
> things began to break down with the wave of feminism that started
> in the 1960s, with roots back to earlier times.
>
> I don't think that process of breaking down barriers is complete yet.
>
> bill

Yes, but secretary-->assistant predates women in the workforce, and
would apply to a young gentleman tasked with keeping the principal's
papers in order ... through out the 19th Century and probably well back
into the 18th.

Samuel Pepys could probably vouch for his assistants at the Admiralty.

/dps

--
Let's celebrate Macaronesia

On 17-Apr-22 22:15, Snidely wrote:
> bil...@shaw.ca wrote on 4/14/2022 :
>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 7:14:02 PM UTC-7, Dingbat wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 5:11:40 AM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844 At about 1m00s,
>>>> General Keane said: "Secretory Blinken"
>>>> Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>>>> secretary?
>>>> Or just an incidental, unusual error?
>>> A secretion peculiar to General Keane:-)
>>> A secretary also meant a kind of desk with a device to hide the top
>>> surface from view, keeping items on the surface secret..
>>> A secretary (person) meant a confidante, one who could be trusted to
>>> keep secrets.
>>> How Secretary came to mean a personal assistant is a mystery I
>>> haven't explored.
>>
>> In the mid-20th century in the U.S. and Canada -- I don't know about
>> elsewhere -- secretary was the highest job title women could aspire
>> to in many business bureaucracies. Another analyses used "the glass
>> ceiling" to define how high women could rise in bureaucracies. Those
>> things began to break down with the wave of feminism that started in
>> the 1960s, with roots back to earlier times.
>> I don't think that process of breaking down barriers is complete yet.
>>
>> bill
>
> Yes, but secretary-->assistant predates women in the workforce, and
> would apply to a young gentleman tasked with keeping the principal's
> papers in order ... through out the 19th Century and probably well back
> into the 18th.
>
> Samuel Pepys could probably vouch for his assistants at the Admiralty.
>

Before joining the Board of Admiralty, he was a secretary to a rather
unpleasant chap called George Downing, who had a street named after him.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 2022-04-17 23:39:57 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:

> On 17-Apr-22 22:15, Snidely wrote:
>>
>> [ … ]

>>
>> Yes, but secretary-->assistant predates women in the workforce, and
>> would apply to a young gentleman tasked with keeping the principal's
>> papers in order ... through out the 19th Century and probably well back
>> into the 18th.
>>
>> Samuel Pepys could probably vouch for his assistants at the Admiralty.
>>
>
> Before joining the Board of Admiralty, he was a secretary to a rather
> unpleasant chap called George Downing, who had a street named after him.

More than one. You're probably thinking of the one where Boris lives,
but there is also a Downing Street in Cambridge.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On 18-Apr-22 9:14, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-04-17 23:39:57 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:
>
>> On 17-Apr-22 22:15, Snidely wrote:
>>>
>>> [ … ]
>
>>>
>>> Yes, but secretary-->assistant predates women in the workforce, and
>>> would apply to a young gentleman tasked with keeping the principal's
>>> papers in order ... through out the 19th Century and probably well
>>> back into the 18th.
>>>
>>> Samuel Pepys could probably vouch for his assistants at the Admiralty.
>>>
>>
>> Before joining the Board of Admiralty, he was a secretary to a rather
>> unpleasant chap called George Downing, who had a street named after him.
>
> More than one. You're probably thinking of the one where Boris lives,
> but there is also a Downing Street in Cambridge.

Several fortunes have been spent, over the years, on major building
works in (Westminster) Downing Street.
George Downing's penny-pinching & corner-cutting have been blamed for
much of the extra cost. Some of that may even be true.

--
Sam Plusnet

In message <jc4kv9FjakgU1@mid.individual.net> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> On 2022-04-17 23:39:57 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:

>> On 17-Apr-22 22:15, Snidely wrote:
>>>
>>> [ … ]

>>>
>>> Yes, but secretary-->assistant predates women in the workforce, and
>>> would apply to a young gentleman tasked with keeping the principal's
>>> papers in order ... through out the 19th Century and probably well back
>>> into the 18th.
>>>
>>> Samuel Pepys could probably vouch for his assistants at the Admiralty.
>>>
>>
>> Before joining the Board of Admiralty, he was a secretary to a rather
>> unpleasant chap called George Downing, who had a street named after him.

> More than one. You're probably thinking of the one where Boris lives,
> but there is also a Downing Street in Cambridge.

Let's not forget Lord Downing, head of the Assassins Guild.

Oh, sorry, that one is Lord Downey. I'm sure it's unrelated.

--
I CANNOT ABSOLVE SINS Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF14

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 11:48:38 PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:11:35 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
> scribeva:
> >https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
> >At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
> >"Secretory Blinken"
> >
> >Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
> >secretary?
> >
> >Or just an incidental, unusual error?
> In British English, the word has three syllables:
> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/secretary
>
> In American English, the word has four syllables, with a secondary
> stress on the syllable that is missing or compressed in British:
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secretary
>
> When the r in that syllable becomes more conspicuous, as in the speech
> of some Americans, it can almost sound like -or- to my ears, although
> it probably isn't. I hear that tendency, although not as clear as in
> the speech of the general, also in the example by Merriam Webster.

In my very rhotic speech /sek.kr^.ter.iy/. But I do hear and perhaps even
use /sek.r.ter.iy/

In article <4hgf5htmv6pkhdo9leg6ktebc0giblgg8u@4ax.com>,
Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:
>Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:11:35 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com>
>scribeva:
>
>>https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
>>At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
>>"Secretory Blinken"
>>
>>Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>>secretary?
>>
>>Or just an incidental, unusual error?
>
>In British English, the word has three syllables:
>https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/secretary
>
>In American English, the word has four syllables, with a secondary
>stress on the syllable that is missing or compressed in British:
>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secretary
>
>When the r in that syllable becomes more conspicuous, as in the speech
>of some Americans, it can almost sound like -or- to my ears, although
>it probably isn't. I hear that tendency, although not as clear as in
>the speech of the general, also in the example by Merriam Webster.
>--
>Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Isn't this a general property of -ory words?
inventory, purgatory, promontory, inflammatory?

--
Reinier Post

Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> writes:
>Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>secretary?

Both in en-US and en-GB, "Secretary" is

ˈsᴇk rət_(ə)r i

, "secretory"

sɩ ˈkriːt_(ə)r i

.

( a sound that might be omitted by some speakers
_ the two syllables might be merged by some speakers
r the r sound of the region (en-US or en-GB)
ɩ more open and back than [i], between [i] and [ə], unrounded [Y]

Sun, 08 May 2022 14:53:00 +0200: rp@rp-OptiPlex-755.(none) (Reinier
Post) scribeva:

>In article <4hgf5htmv6pkhdo9leg6ktebc0giblgg8u@4ax.com>,
>Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:
>>Wed, 13 Apr 2022 14:11:35 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com>
>>scribeva:
>>
>>>https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=399922901604844
>>>At about 1m00s, General Keane said:
>>>"Secretory Blinken"
>>>
>>>Is that a usual thing to say in American English, secretory? Not
>>>secretary?
>>>
>>>Or just an incidental, unusual error?
>>
>>In British English, the word has three syllables:
>>https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/secretary
>>
>>In American English, the word has four syllables, with a secondary
>>stress on the syllable that is missing or compressed in British:
>>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secretary
>>
>>When the r in that syllable becomes more conspicuous, as in the speech
>>of some Americans, it can almost sound like -or- to my ears, although
>>it probably isn't. I hear that tendency, although not as clear as in
>>the speech of the general, also in the example by Merriam Webster.
>>--
>>Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
>
>Isn't this a general property of -ory words?
>inventory, purgatory, promontory, inflammatory?

Dunno.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com