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tech / sci.physics.relativity / Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?

SubjectAuthor
* MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?Alan B
`* Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?Dono.
 `* Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?Alan B
  `* Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?Tom Roberts
   `* Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?amirjf nin
    `- Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?Tom Roberts

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MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?

<9a349514-ccb4-40a2-8205-d565faa113a1n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?
From: amirjf...@aim.com (Alan B)
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 by: Alan B - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 15:28 UTC

Maybe?

Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?

<0893f161-cfe2-499a-9aa5-0be1b26a77den@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?
From: eggy2001...@gmail.com (Dono.)
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 by: Dono. - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 15:54 UTC

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 8:28:25 AM UTC-7, Alan B wrote:
> Maybe?
Not

Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?

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Subject: Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?
From: amirjf...@aim.com (Alan B)
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 by: Alan B - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 16:10 UTC

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:54:28 AM UTC-4, Dono. wrote:
> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 8:28:25 AM UTC-7, Alan B wrote:
> > Maybe?
> Not

https://www.nature.com/articles/321734a0.pdf

Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?

<w9udnX1TEp4f5Y34nZ2dnZfqlJxj4p2d@giganews.com>

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From: tjoberts...@sbcglobal.net (Tom Roberts)
Subject: Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
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 by: Tom Roberts - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 17:57 UTC

On 9/24/23 11:10 AM, Alan B wrote:
> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:54:28 AM UTC-4, Dono. wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 8:28:25 AM UTC-7, Alan B wrote:
>>> Maybe?
>> Not

Almost surely not.

> https://www.nature.com/articles/321734a0.pdf

They are concerned about the propagation of the outgoing ray being
influenced by the reflected ray, and vice-versa -- that requires
nonlinear electrodynamics, with nonlinear effects being significant for
the light rays involved. Our current best models of electrodynamics are
linear, and the linearity has been tested at VASTLY higher intensities
than occur in the MMX.

In our current best theories of electrodynamics, as long as the
apparatus is at rest in a locally-inertial frame, the MMX is predicted
to yield a null result, regardless of how its frame might be moving.

Tom Roberts

Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?

<26341341-a3e3-4d56-8101-dfff11b6cf1d@aim.com>

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From: amirjf...@aim.com (amirjf nin)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?
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 by: amirjf nin - Thu, 28 Mar 2024 03:58 UTC

On 9/24/2023 1:57 PM, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 9/24/23 11:10 AM, Alan B wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:54:28 AM UTC-4, Dono. wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 8:28:25 AM UTC-7, Alan B wrote:
>>>> Maybe?
>>> Not
>
> Almost surely not.
>
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/321734a0.pdf
>
> They are concerned about the propagation of the outgoing ray being
> influenced by the reflected ray, and vice-versa -- that requires
> nonlinear electrodynamics, with nonlinear effects being significant for
> the light rays involved. Our current best models of electrodynamics are
> linear, and the linearity has been tested at VASTLY higher intensities
> than occur in the MMX.
>
> In our current best theories of electrodynamics, as long as the
> apparatus is at rest in a locally-inertial frame, the MMX is predicted
> to yield a null result, regardless of how its frame might be moving.
>
> Tom Roberts

Tom Roberts,

You say "as long as the apparatus is at rest..."

So, what if an MMX is in low earth orbit? How would that be "at rest"?

Alan B.

Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?

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From: tjoberts...@sbcglobal.net (Tom Roberts)
Subject: Re: MMX at let's say .95c maybe get some kind of non-null results?
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 by: Tom Roberts - Thu, 28 Mar 2024 22:11 UTC

On 3/27/24 10:58 PM, amirjf nin wrote:
> On 9/24/2023 1:57 PM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> In our current best theories of electrodynamics, as long as the
>> apparatus is at rest in a locally-inertial frame, the MMX is
>> predicted to yield a null result, regardless of how its frame
>> might be moving.
>
> You say "as long as the apparatus is at rest..." So, what if an MMX
> is in low earth orbit? How would that be "at rest"?

You omitted the important caveat: "... at rest in a locally-inertial
frame". The MMX had arms 11 meters long, so the round-trip of light
takes ~ 36 nanoseconds. In 36 ns, Newtonian gravitation predicts it will
fall 0.5*g*t^2 = ~ 5E-15 meters -- that is how far a locally-inertial
frame will move relative to the orbiting apparatus. That is roughly 1E8
times smaller than the wavelength of visible light, and is utterly
undetectable.

So for all practical purposes, an MMX in orbit can be considered to be
at rest in a locally inertial frame. Until and unless you can come up
with a detector that can resolve better than 1E-8 wavelength (the MMX
resolved about 0.1 wavelength).

Tom Roberts

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