How is that written in IPA?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.

Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud.deden@gmail.com> scribeva:

>How is that written in IPA?
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
>At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.

It's a velarised Russian-like l, then followed by [j].

It's a fake accent, isn't it? He otherwise speaks normal American
English.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 2:58:27 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >How is that written in IPA?
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
> >At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.
> It's a velarised Russian-like l, then followed by [j].
>
> It's a fake accent, isn't it?

I think it is real, his US accent & vocab are very good for a foreign-born Slav, but I doubt the velarised l would carry to the 2nd generation immigrant. Most Americans couldn't habitually pronounce "illustrate" in that way, excepting those studying Slavic. His 'illustrate' almost sounds like igyelustrate but there's no tongue-touch so it comes out as iyelustrate. L must be a novel sound, perhaps only developing after biologically recent tongue-manipulation evolution.

He otherwise speaks normal American
> English.
> --
> Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Sun, 4 Jul 2021 03:26:51 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
<daud.deden@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 2:58:27 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >How is that written in IPA?
>> >
>> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
>> >At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.
>> It's a velarised Russian-like l, then followed by [j].
>>
>> It's a fake accent, isn't it?

On closer inspection, certainly NOT a native speaker of American
English.
>I think it is real, his US accent & vocab are very good for a foreign-born Slav,

Yes. But not perfect.

>but I doubt the velarised l would carry to the 2nd generation immigrant.
>Most Americans couldn't habitually pronounce "illustrate" in that way,
>excepting those studying Slavic. His 'illustrate' almost sounds like
>igyelustrate but there's no tongue-touch so it comes out as iyelustrate.

I really don't year anything of the sort. I don't where youall get
that from.

>L must be a novel sound, perhaps only developing after biologically recent
>tongue-manipulation evolution.

Lunacy skipped.

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 9:03:33 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Sun, 4 Jul 2021 03:26:51 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 2:58:27 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:

> >> >How is that written in IPA?
> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
> >> >At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.
> >> It's a velarised Russian-like l, then followed by [j].
> >> It's a fake accent, isn't it?
>
> On closer inspection, certainly NOT a native speaker of American
> English.
>
> >I think it is real, his US accent & vocab are very good for a foreign-born Slav,
> Yes. But not perfect.

It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
"illustrate." His teachers were far more likely British than American,
because his LOT vowel is rounded.

> >but I doubt the velarised l would carry to the 2nd generation immigrant.

Of course not. Children of immigrants who go to regular school
acquire the dialect of their classmates, not of their parents.

A friend of mine in Chicago's parents were monolingual immigrants,
he spoke only Polish until age 4 or so, and his English was perfectly
accentless.

> >Most Americans couldn't habitually pronounce "illustrate" in that way,
> >excepting those studying Slavic. His 'illustrate' almost sounds like
> >igyelustrate but there's no tongue-touch so it comes out as iyelustrate.

Nonsense.

> I really don't year anything of the sort. I don't where youall get
> that from.

From never having tried to speak any other language, and never having
paid attention to what other-speakers sound like, let alone never having
had any phonetic training (but that covers you as well, so it's less
important here).

(He's not a "youall." In dialects that have it, it's plural.)

> >L must be a novel sound, perhaps only developing after biologically recent
> >tongue-manipulation evolution.
>
> Lunacy skipped.

.... but not deleted.

Op 4/07/2021 om 15:15 schreef Peter T. Daniels:
> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
> "illustrate."

I was wondering what was all the fuss about it ;)

A fat Slavic accent? Here, by a Flemish actress (if that word's still
allowed) :
https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=274
https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=605
https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1404
https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1524
"De Kampioenen", a very popular series in Flanders, totally unknown in
Holland (would be unsellable there). Example of being separated by
common language :O)

--

guido wugi

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 10:43:58 AM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
> Op 4/07/2021 om 15:15 schreef Peter T. Daniels:
> > It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
> > years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
> > "illustrate."
> I was wondering what was all the fuss about it ;)
>
> A fat Slavic accent? Here, by a Flemish actress (if that word's still
> allowed) :
> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=274
> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=605
> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1404
> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1524
> "De Kampioenen", a very popular series in Flanders, totally unknown in
> Holland (would be unsellable there). Example of being separated by
> common language :O)
>
>
> --
>
> guido wugi

Flemish Belgian actors speaking Russified English? Yikes!

Op 4/07/2021 om 23:26 schreef Daud Deden:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 10:43:58 AM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
>> Op 4/07/2021 om 15:15 schreef Peter T. Daniels:
>>> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
>>> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
>>> "illustrate."
>> I was wondering what was all the fuss about it ;)
>>
>> A fat Slavic accent? Here, by a Flemish actress (if that word's still
>> allowed) :
>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=274
>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=605
>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1404
>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1524
>> "De Kampioenen", a very popular series in Flanders, totally unknown in
>> Holland (would be unsellable there). Example of being separated by
>> common language :O)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> guido wugi
> Flemish Belgian actors speaking Russified English? Yikes!

Not wet enough? ;)

--

guido wugi

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 9:15:07 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 9:03:33 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Sun, 4 Jul 2021 03:26:51 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 2:58:27 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > >> Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> > >> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
> > >> >How is that written in IPA?
> > >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
> > >> >At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.
> > >> It's a velarised Russian-like l, then followed by [j].
> > >> It's a fake accent, isn't it?
> >
> > On closer inspection, certainly NOT a native speaker of American
> > English.
> >
> > >I think it is real, his US accent & vocab are very good for a foreign-born Slav,
> > Yes. But not perfect.
Of course not. I am certain he rehearsed it, too, there was some "performance" quality to his speech and appearance.

> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
> "illustrate."

Of course not, he merely spoke it aloud. Same effect as illuminate surely.

His teachers were far more likely British than American,
> because his LOT vowel is rounded.

Probably, with a steady diet of American film & videos.

> > >but I doubt the velarised l would carry to the 2nd generation immigrant.
> Of course not.

My grandparents still spoke low & high german and had noticeable German- influenced American-English, most of their classmates were the same, being farmers in the boonies. Different in the urbs.

Children of immigrants who go to regular school
> acquire the dialect of their classmates, not of their parents.
>
> A friend of mine in Chicago's parents were monolingual immigrants,
> he spoke only Polish until age 4 or so, and his English was perfectly
> accentless.

Yes, of course that can happen, depends on many factors.

> > >Most Americans couldn't habitually pronounce "illustrate" in that way,
> > >excepting those studying Slavic. His 'illustrate' almost sounds like
> > >igyelustrate but there's no tongue-touch so it comes out as iyelustrate.
> Nonsense.

Hardly.

> > I really don't year anything of the sort. I don't where youall get
> > that from.

That must be far west Friesen. Was it to me, or just rhetoric?

> From never having tried to speak any other language,

Who on earth are you talking of here? Yourself?

and never having
> paid attention to what other-speakers sound like,

Same question.

let alone never having
> had any phonetic training

You mean Linguist-bound phonetic training? That would include me, though I suffered through some.

(but that covers you as well, so it's less
> important here).

What is important here? Your opinion of Ruud's opinion of my opinion?

>
> (He's not a "youall."

Maybe I am in far west Friesland.

In dialects that have it, it's plural.)
> > >L must be a novel sound, perhaps only developing after biologically recent
> > >tongue-manipulation evolution.
> >
> > Lunacy skipped.
> ... but not deleted.
Safely ignored. Back to your cubical.

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
> Op 4/07/2021 om 23:26 schreef Daud Deden:
> > On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 10:43:58 AM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
> >> Op 4/07/2021 om 15:15 schreef Peter T. Daniels:
> >>> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
> >>> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
> >>> "illustrate."
> >> I was wondering what was all the fuss about it ;)
> >>
> >> A fat Slavic accent? Here, by a Flemish actress (if that word's still
> >> allowed) :
> >> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=274
> >> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=605
> >> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1404
> >> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1524
> >> "De Kampioenen", a very popular series in Flanders, totally unknown in
> >> Holland (would be unsellable there). Example of being separated by
> >> common language :O)
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> guido wugi
> > Flemish Belgian actors speaking Russified English? Yikes!
> Not wet enough? ;)
>
>
> --
>
> guido wugi

Wet? You lost me, please explain. Does 'De Kampioenen' mean The Champion, The Companion, or The Campaigner? Sounds like a candidate for Xyuambuatl...

On 5/07/2021 1:15 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 9:03:33 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sun, 4 Jul 2021 03:26:51 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 2:58:27 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>>>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
>>>>> How is that written in IPA?
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
>>>>> At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.
>>>> It's a velarised Russian-like l, then followed by [j].
>>>> It's a fake accent, isn't it?
>>
>> On closer inspection, certainly NOT a native speaker of American
>> English.
>>
>>> I think it is real, his US accent & vocab are very good for a foreign-born Slav,
>> Yes. But not perfect.
>
> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
> "illustrate." His teachers were far more likely British than American,
> because his LOT vowel is rounded.
>
>>> but I doubt the velarised l would carry to the 2nd generation immigrant.
>
> Of course not. Children of immigrants who go to regular school
> acquire the dialect of their classmates, not of their parents.
>
> A friend of mine in Chicago's parents were monolingual immigrants,
> he spoke only Polish until age 4 or so, and his English was perfectly
> accentless.
>

We've been seeing a lot of Gladys Berejiklian, the Premier of New South
Wales, on TV recently. Wiki tells me she was born in Sydney, but spoke
only Armenian until she went to school. I can't detect anything
un-native-sounding in her speech.

Sun, 4 Jul 2021 06:15:05 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:

>On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 9:03:33 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sun, 4 Jul 2021 03:26:51 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>> >On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 2:58:27 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> >> Sat, 3 Jul 2021 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
>> >> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
>> >> >How is that written in IPA?
>> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJka4_ZioU
>> >> >At 45 seconds, Slav says 'illustrate', sounds like iyelustrate, as if it is between Spanish ll = y and English ll = l.
>> >> It's a velarised Russian-like l, then followed by [j].
>> >> It's a fake accent, isn't it?
>>
>> On closer inspection, certainly NOT a native speaker of American
>> English.
>>
>> >I think it is real, his US accent & vocab are very good for a foreign-born Slav,
>> Yes. But not perfect.
>
>It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
>years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
>"illustrate." His teachers were far more likely British than American,
>because his LOT vowel is rounded.
>
>> >but I doubt the velarised l would carry to the 2nd generation immigrant.
>
>Of course not. Children of immigrants who go to regular school
>acquire the dialect of their classmates, not of their parents.
>
>A friend of mine in Chicago's parents were monolingual immigrants,
>he spoke only Polish until age 4 or so, and his English was perfectly
>accentless.
>
>> >Most Americans couldn't habitually pronounce "illustrate" in that way,
>> >excepting those studying Slavic. His 'illustrate' almost sounds like
>> >igyelustrate but there's no tongue-touch so it comes out as iyelustrate.
>
>Nonsense.
>
>> I really don't year anything of the sort. I don't where youall get
>> that from.
>
>From never having tried to speak any other language, and never having
>paid attention to what other-speakers sound like, let alone never having
>had any phonetic training (but that covers you as well, so it's less
>important here).
>
>(He's not a "youall." In dialects that have it, it's plural.)

I meant it as plural, the original poster and a later commenter, but
it now seems they were both Daud. I somehow thought the OP was Ranjit?

>> >L must be a novel sound, perhaps only developing after biologically recent
>> >tongue-manipulation evolution.
>>
>> Lunacy skipped.
>
>... but not deleted.

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Sun, 4 Jul 2021 16:43:40 +0200: wugi <brol@wugi.be> scribeva:

>Op 4/07/2021 om 15:15 schreef Peter T. Daniels:
>> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
>> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
>> "illustrate."
>
>
>I was wondering what was all the fuss about it ;)
>
>A fat Slavic accent? Here, by a Flemish actress (if that word's still
>allowed) :
>https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=274
>https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=605
>https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1404
>https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1524
>"De Kampioenen", a very popular series in Flanders, totally unknown in
>Holland

Though I've heard of it, and seen some fragments.

> (would be unsellable there). Example of being separated by
>common language :O)

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Op 4/07/2021 om 23:53 schreef Daud Deden:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
>> Op 4/07/2021 om 23:26 schreef Daud Deden:
>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 10:43:58 AM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
>>>> Op 4/07/2021 om 15:15 schreef Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
>>>>> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
>>>>> "illustrate."
>>>> I was wondering what was all the fuss about it ;)
>>>>
>>>> A fat Slavic accent? Here, by a Flemish actress (if that word's still
>>>> allowed) :
>>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=274
>>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=605
>>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1404
>>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1524
>>>> "De Kampioenen", a very popular series in Flanders, totally unknown in
>>>> Holland (would be unsellable there). Example of being separated by
>>>> common language :O)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> guido wugi
>>> Flemish Belgian actors speaking Russified English? Yikes!
>> Not wet enough? ;)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> guido wugi
> Wet? You lost me, please explain. Does 'De Kampioenen' mean The Champion, The Companion, or The Campaigner? Sounds like a candidate for Xyuambuatl...

Wet: Russian and English sound that to me, with no clear-cut vowels,
rounding their neighbouring consonants (your ill-ustrator for instance).
French and German would be 'dry', along these lines. We have wet and dry
Flemish dialects, as behooves in-betweeners. Nothing 'deep' to delve
into here, though.

Kampioen(en): a simple plural. De kampioen "campeeoon", de kompaan, en
de campagneleider of -voerder.

--

guido wugi

On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 11:40:54 AM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
> Op 4/07/2021 om 23:53 schreef Daud Deden:
> > On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 5:45:06 PM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
> >> Op 4/07/2021 om 23:26 schreef Daud Deden:
> >>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 10:43:58 AM UTC-4, wugi wrote:
> >>>> Op 4/07/2021 om 15:15 schreef Peter T. Daniels:
> >>>>> It's exactly the accent that was satirized by "Boris Badunov" 50-60
> >>>>> years ago, ordinary Russian, and there's nothing unusual about the
> >>>>> "illustrate."
> >>>> I was wondering what was all the fuss about it ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> A fat Slavic accent? Here, by a Flemish actress (if that word's still
> >>>> allowed) :
> >>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=274
> >>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=605
> >>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1404
> >>>> https://youtu.be/rkxTNHp0lPs?list=PLsQFYXzYnJkPazYMbsC2l5EEboxBKTdfH&t=1524
> >>>> "De Kampioenen", a very popular series in Flanders, totally unknown in
> >>>> Holland (would be unsellable there). Example of being separated by
> >>>> common language :O)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> guido wugi
> >>> Flemish Belgian actors speaking Russified English? Yikes!
> >> Not wet enough? ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> guido wugi
> > Wet? You lost me, please explain. Does 'De Kampioenen' mean The Champion, The Companion, or The Campaigner? Sounds like a candidate for Xyuambuatl...
> Wet: Russian and English sound that to me, with no clear-cut vowels,
> rounding their neighbouring consonants (your ill-ustrator for instance).
> French and German would be 'dry', along these lines. We have wet and dry
> Flemish dialects, as behooves in-betweeners. Nothing 'deep' to delve
> into here, though.

Reminds me of 'a crisp German accent'.

> Kampioen(en): a simple plural. De kampioen "campeeoon", de kompaan, en
> de campagneleider of -voerder.
>
>
Thanks.
> --
>
> guido wugi