H.erectus had flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis, big brain, broad body, valgus knees, platycephaly, vulnerable nose, island colonizations, intercontinental dispersal etc.etc.
No dobut erectus "hunted" shellfish:
only incredible fools still believe H.erectus hunted antelopes.

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> H.erectus had flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis, big brain, broad body, valgus knees, platycephaly, vulnerable nose, island colonizations, intercontinental dispersal etc.etc.
> No dobut erectus "hunted" shellfish:
> only incredible fools still believe H.erectus hunted antelopes.

I see erectus as the birth of "Modern Man."

Maybe not 100% of the kinks were worked out yet, but if some of
the creatures they are calling "Modern" are actually modern, then
erectus had to be modern as well.

"Aquatic Ape" probably began millions of years before erectus
though. I see erectus as the result, the conclusion.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/680203064431558656

Op zondag 3 april 2022 om 00:11:07 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

> > H.erectus had flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis, big brain, broad body, valgus knees, platycephaly, vulnerable nose, island colonizations, intercontinental dispersal etc.etc.
> > No dobut erectus "hunted" shellfish:
> > only incredible fools still believe H.erectus hunted antelopes.

> I see erectus as the birth of "Modern Man."
> Maybe not 100% of the kinks were worked out yet, but if some of
> the creatures they are calling "Modern" are actually modern, then
> erectus had to be modern as well.
> "Aquatic Ape" probably began millions of years before erectus
> though. I see erectus as the result, the conclusion.

Aquarborealism began mill.of yrs before erectus:
- aquarborealism (bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead in swamp forests) began 25-20 Ma?
- frequent shallow-diving probably began early-Pleistocene c 2 Ma:
IMO
0) Mio-Pliocene hominoids, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
1) early-Pleistocene H.erectus along the Ind.Ocean = frequent shallow-diving,
2) mid-Pleist.H.neand.etc. seasonally followed the rivers inland, frequent wading,
3) late-Pleist.H.sapiens: from wading to walking.

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 6:30:11 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zondag 3 april 2022 om 00:11:07 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
> > > H.erectus had flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis, big brain, broad body, valgus knees, platycephaly, vulnerable nose, island colonizations, intercontinental dispersal etc.etc.
> > > No dobut erectus "hunted" shellfish:
> > > only incredible fools still believe H.erectus hunted antelopes.
>
> > I see erectus as the birth of "Modern Man."
> > Maybe not 100% of the kinks were worked out yet, but if some of
> > the creatures they are calling "Modern" are actually modern, then
> > erectus had to be modern as well.
> > "Aquatic Ape" probably began millions of years before erectus
> > though. I see erectus as the result, the conclusion.
> Aquarborealism began mill.of yrs before erectus:
> - aquarborealism (bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead in swamp forests) began 25-20 Ma?
> - frequent shallow-diving probably began early-Pleistocene c 2 Ma:
> IMO
> 0) Mio-Pliocene hominoids, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
> 1) early-Pleistocene H.erectus along the Ind.Ocean = frequent shallow-diving,
> 2) mid-Pleist.H.neand.etc. seasonally followed the rivers inland, frequent wading,
> 3) late-Pleist.H.sapiens: from wading to walking.

MV claims that hylobatids waded, despite the fact that none of today's hylobatids wade. Mermaidology!
Hylobatids and lemurs both have long legs used in leaping, not wading. Parsimony please!

Op donderdag 7 april 2022 om 13:41:36 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 6:30:11 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Op zondag 3 april 2022 om 00:11:07 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
> > > > H.erectus had flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis, big brain, broad body, valgus knees, platycephaly, vulnerable nose, island colonizations, intercontinental dispersal etc.etc.
> > > > No dobut erectus "hunted" shellfish:
> > > > only incredible fools still believe H.erectus hunted antelopes.
> >
> > > I see erectus as the birth of "Modern Man."
> > > Maybe not 100% of the kinks were worked out yet, but if some of
> > > the creatures they are calling "Modern" are actually modern, then
> > > erectus had to be modern as well.
> > > "Aquatic Ape" probably began millions of years before erectus
> > > though. I see erectus as the result, the conclusion.
> > Aquarborealism began mill.of yrs before erectus:
> > - aquarborealism (bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead in swamp forests) began 25-20 Ma?
> > - frequent shallow-diving probably began early-Pleistocene c 2 Ma:
> > IMO
> > 0) Mio-Pliocene hominoids, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
> > 1) early-Pleistocene H.erectus along the Ind.Ocean = frequent shallow-diving,
> > 2) mid-Pleist.H.neand.etc. seasonally followed the rivers inland, frequent wading,
> > 3) late-Pleist.H.sapiens: from wading to walking.

> MV claims that hylobatids waded, despite the fact that none of today's hylobatids wade.

Sigh... My little boy, you're becoming more & more ridiculous & childish:
1) selective reading = typical of closed-minded people
2) not thinking a bit?
3) IMO early hominoids >20 Ma were aquarboreal
4) Mesopotamian Seaway closure = hominid/pongid split = 15 Ma,
IOW after 15 Ma aquarboreal pongids in S.Asia followed hylobatids -> higher into trees
okidoki?? got it??

On Thursday 7 April 2022 at 16:57:07 UTC+1, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> 3) IMO early hominoids >20 Ma were aquarboreal

Primates (other than apes) have a chest body-
form that follows the standard quadrupedal
pattern -- narrow and deep. This form enables
the heart to be located at the lowest point of
the trunk, where it is most efficient, when
travelling quadrupedally.

Apes evolved broad flat chests, and their
shoulders moved to the top corners of
their chests, with their scapulas located
on their backs, instead of their sides.
Their spines became centralised, and
they lost their tails.

See:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/7bf7c5ea-2c89-42bb-a16a-e4db6a39190a/joa12454-fig-0007-m.jpg

Apes also evolved a fear of water. They
are not born with an inherent capacity to
swim, as are all virtually all other animals,
including monkeys.

When why and how did all this happen?

Paul Crowley wrote:

> Apes also evolved a fear of water. They
> are not born with an inherent capacity to
> swim, as are all virtually all other animals,
> including monkeys.

humans are apes. Our aquatic ancestors had to begin BEFORE
Chimps or even gorillas.

Chimps evolved from an upright walking ancestor, probably a
tool user -- a real tool user. Chimps spun off from our line, not
the other way around.

In all probability, the same is true for gorillas.

> When why and how did all this happen?

Depends on your source. Are you denying that humans & Chimps
share common ancestry?

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/680631634399264768

On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 11:57:07 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op donderdag 7 april 2022 om 13:41:36 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 6:30:11 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Op zondag 3 april 2022 om 00:11:07 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
> > > > > H.erectus had flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis, big brain, broad body, valgus knees, platycephaly, vulnerable nose, island colonizations, intercontinental dispersal etc.etc.
> > > > > No dobut erectus "hunted" shellfish:
> > > > > only incredible fools still believe H.erectus hunted antelopes.
> > >
> > > > I see erectus as the birth of "Modern Man."
> > > > Maybe not 100% of the kinks were worked out yet, but if some of
> > > > the creatures they are calling "Modern" are actually modern, then
> > > > erectus had to be modern as well.
> > > > "Aquatic Ape" probably began millions of years before erectus
> > > > though. I see erectus as the result, the conclusion.
> > > Aquarborealism began mill.of yrs before erectus:
> > > - aquarborealism (bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead in swamp forests) began 25-20 Ma?
> > > - frequent shallow-diving probably began early-Pleistocene c 2 Ma:
> > > IMO
> > > 0) Mio-Pliocene hominoids, google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?"
> > > 1) early-Pleistocene H.erectus along the Ind.Ocean = frequent shallow-diving,
> > > 2) mid-Pleist.H.neand.etc. seasonally followed the rivers inland, frequent wading,
> > > 3) late-Pleist.H.sapiens: from wading to walking.
>
> > MV claims that hylobatids waded, despite the fact that none of today's hylobatids wade.
> Sigh... My little boy, you're becoming more & more ridiculous & childish:
> 1) selective reading = typical of closed-minded people
> 2) not thinking a bit?
> 3) IMO early hominoids >20 Ma were aquarboreal
> 4) Mesopotamian Seaway closure = hominid/pongid split = 15 Ma,
> IOW after 15 Ma aquarboreal pongids in S.Asia followed hylobatids -> higher into trees
> okidoki?? got it??
Dumb.

On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 2:51:15 PM UTC-4, Paul Crowley wrote:
> On Thursday 7 April 2022 at 16:57:07 UTC+1, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > 3) IMO early hominoids >20 Ma were aquarboreal
> Primates (other than apes) have a chest body-
> form that follows the standard quadrupedal
> pattern -- narrow and deep. This form enables
> the heart to be located at the lowest point of
> the trunk, where it is most efficient, when
> travelling quadrupedally.
>
> Apes evolved broad flat chests, and their
> shoulders moved to the top corners of
> their chests, with their scapulas located
> on their backs, instead of their sides.
> Their spines became centralised, and
> they lost their tails.
>
> See:
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/7bf7c5ea-2c89-42bb-a16a-e4db6a39190a/joa12454-fig-0007-m.jpg
>
> Apes also evolved a fear of water. They
> are not born with an inherent capacity to
> swim, as are all virtually all other animals,
> including monkeys.
>
> When why and how did all this happen?
Dumber.

On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 11:30:57 PM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:
> Paul Crowley wrote:
>
> > Apes also evolved a fear of water. They
> > are not born with an inherent capacity to
> > swim, as are all virtually all other animals,
> > including monkeys.
> humans are apes. Our aquatic ancestors had to begin BEFORE
> Chimps or even gorillas.
>
> Chimps evolved from an upright walking ancestor, probably a
> tool user -- a real tool user. Chimps spun off from our line, not
> the other way around.
>
> In all probability, the same is true for gorillas.
> > When why and how did all this happen?
> Depends on your source. Are you denying that humans & Chimps
> share common ancestry?
>
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/680631634399264768
Dumbest.

Op donderdag 7 april 2022 om 20:51:15 UTC+2 schreef Paul Crowley:

> > 3) IMO early hominoids >20 Ma were aquarboreal
....

> Apes also evolved a fear of water.

My boy, you're almost as childish as DD is.
Google "bonobo wading" or "gorilla bai".
We had predicted this locomotion a few years before it became described.
Google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?" (+refs).

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:23:02 AM UTC+1, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

>> Apes evolved broad flat chests, and their
>> shoulders moved to the top corners of
>> their chests, with their scapulas located
>> on their backs, instead of their sides.
>> Their spines became centralised, and
>> they lost their tails.
>>
>> See:
>> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/7bf7c5ea-2c89-42bb-a16a-e4db6a39190a/joa12454-fig-0007-m.jpg
>>
>> Apes also evolved a fear of water. They
>> are not born with an inherent capacity to
>> swim, as are all virtually all other animals,
>> including monkeys.
>>
>> When why and how did all this happen?
>. .
> Dumber.
.. .
You'll notice the complete lack of answers
to my question (including from you.)

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 4:30:57 AM UTC+1, I Envy JTEM wrote:

>> Apes also evolved a fear of water. They
>> are not born with an inherent capacity to
>> swim, as are all virtually all other animals,
>> including monkeys.
> . .
> humans are apes.
>. .
As are gibbons, chimps, orangutans
and gorillas. They all share the features
and behaviours I mentioned
>. .
> Our aquatic ancestors had to begin BEFORE
> Chimps or even gorillas.
>. .
There was NO aquatic ancestry. If there
had been humans would -- like virtually
all non-ape animals -- inherit a natural
capacity to swim.

Paul Crowley wrote:

> I Envy JTEM wrote:
> > humans are apes.
>
> As are gibbons, chimps, orangutans
> and gorillas. They all share the features
> and behaviours I mentioned

And yet we know that Chimps evolved knuckle walking AFTER splitting
off from our line. They weren't arboreal knuckle walkers. The LCA was
an upright walking tool user who lived long after the first Aquatic Ape.

You want linear and nature simply never provided it.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/680646053318606848

Op maandag 11 april 2022 om 00:52:15 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

> > > humans are apes.

> > As are gibbons, chimps, orangutans
> > and gorillas. They all share the features
> > and behaviours I mentioned

> And yet we know that Chimps evolved knuckle walking AFTER splitting
> off from our line. They weren't arboreal knuckle walkers. The LCA was
> an upright walking tool user who lived long after the first Aquatic Ape.

1) Mio-Pliocene aquarboreal hominoids: vertical, wading-climbing
2) early-Pleistocene littoral Homo: shallow-diving for shellfish
3) late-Pleistocene wading-walking H.sapiens: salmon...?

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> 1) Mio-Pliocene aquarboreal hominoids: vertical, wading-climbing
> 2) early-Pleistocene littoral Homo: shallow-diving for shellfish
> 3) late-Pleistocene wading-walking H.sapiens: salmon...?

Your timing seems right but...

Habilis is where we see an evolutionarily significant leap in brain size,
which would be a prediction of Aquatic Ape.

Given the spread of Homo, we need a model that limits their ability
to exploit the sea, hence requiring a relocation to more fertile stretches
of beach. This in turn requires either large groups -- devouring the food
supply before moving on -- or an inability to dive.

Let's face it, diving would push the exploitable area well before even
the low tide shoreline...

Call it a hunch, but I would think that diving came later. That, at first all
they did was walk along the shore, eating. If it washed up or they could
dig it up, it was dinner. This along would have provided far more protein
for less labor than any inland population could hope for, but orders of
magnitude more Omega-3s..more brain building Omega-3s.

This is one reason why I love Aquatic Ape so much: They didn't have to
""Evolve" into geniuses. Their brains were going to get bigger just from
eating all those Omega-3s. At the very least they were going to attain
their maximum size allowable with their genetics. When mutations
resulted in bigger-brain genes they could exploit them immediately without
doing anything new.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/681208752375054337

Op maandag 11 april 2022 om 09:40:15 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

> > 1) Mio-Pliocene aquarboreal hominoids: vertical, wading-climbing
> > 2) early-Pleistocene littoral Homo: shallow-diving for shellfish
> > 3) late-Pleistocene wading-walking H.sapiens: salmon...?

> Your timing seems right but...
> Habilis is where we see an evolutionarily significant leap in brain size,
> which would be a prediction of Aquatic Ape.

What is "habilis"? an amalgan of mostly E.Afr.apiths + some Homo?

> Given the spread of Homo, we need a model that limits their ability
> to exploit the sea, hence requiring a relocation to more fertile stretches
> of beach. This in turn requires either large groups -- devouring the food
> supply before moving on -- or an inability to dive.
> Let's face it, diving would push the exploitable area well before even
> the low tide shoreline...
> Call it a hunch, but I would think that diving came later. That, at first all
> they did was walk along the shore, eating. If it washed up or they could
> dig it up, it was dinner. This along would have provided far more protein
> for less labor than any inland population could hope for, but orders of
> magnitude more Omega-3s..more brain building Omega-3s.

Regular diving came late: not before the Pleistocene?
That we were marine mammals is proven by several independent facts (thanks, Michel Odent!):
- erectus' pachyosteosclerosis,
- our vernix caseosa,
- our iodine needs,
- Homo's big brain,
- intercontinental dispersal,
- island colonisations etc.
Only incredible idiots believe their ancestors ran after antelopes.

> This is one reason why I love Aquatic Ape so much: They didn't have to
> ""Evolve" into geniuses. Their brains were going to get bigger just from
> eating all those Omega-3s. At the very least they were going to attain
> their maximum size allowable with their genetics. When mutations
> resulted in bigger-brain genes they could exploit them immediately without
> doing anything new.

Yes.

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > Your timing seems right but...
> > Habilis is where we see an evolutionarily significant leap in brain size,
> > which would be a prediction of Aquatic Ape.

> What is "habilis"? an amalgan of mostly E.Afr.apiths + some Homo?

if you assume an Asian origins, yes. Definitely. But WHAT it is wouldn't
be the relevant bit here. No, what is relevant is that we see an unambiguous
increase in brain size, which is a prediction of Aquatic Ape.

We have within the fossil record, in the case of habilis, an unambiguous
jump in brain size, which is a prediction of Aquatic Ape.

> > Call it a hunch, but I would think that diving came later. That, at first all
> > they did was walk along the shore, eating. If it washed up or they could
> > dig it up, it was dinner. This alon[e] would have provided far more protein
> > for less labor than any inland population could hope for, but orders of
> > magnitude more Omega-3s..more brain building Omega-3s.

> Regular diving came late: not before the Pleistocene?

I have no idea when. Like I said, it's on the level of a hunch.

i like your idea that "Humans" really hit their stride with erectus. It seems
that anything before is a little too different, and everything after is far too
close to the same.

> That we were marine mammals is proven by several independent facts (thanks, Michel Odent!):
> - erectus' pachyosteosclerosis,
> - our vernix caseosa,
> - our iodine needs,
> - Homo's big brain,
> - intercontinental dispersal,
> - island colonisations etc.
> Only incredible idiots believe their ancestors ran after antelopes.

Oh, trust me, I've accepted your position. What I'm doing is moving on,
building a model with it. I'm not arguing against your Aquatic anything.
I'm basing everything on it. You're a starting point.

> > This is one reason why I love Aquatic Ape so much: They didn't have to
> > ""Evolve" into geniuses. Their brains were going to get bigger just from
> > eating all those Omega-3s. At the very least they were going to attain
> > their maximum size allowable with their genetics. When mutations
> > resulted in bigger-brain genes they could exploit them immediately without
> > doing anything new.

> Yes.

Savanna "Theory" says they evolved an upright stance and the ability to run
by standing upright & running. It is a textbook example of a circular argument.

Aquatic Ape says that their brains HAD TO grow just as large as they could,
because of all those brain building Omega-3s, that they were going to get
smarter without even trying, they were going to push into new territories,
face new obstacles, new riddles to solve, even as their brains were growing
bigger & smatter... FIRST they grew smarter, THEN they figured out tools &
such.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/681208752375054337

Op dinsdag 12 april 2022 om 00:50:26 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

> > > Your timing seems right but...
> > > Habilis is where we see an evolutionarily significant leap in brain size,
> > > which would be a prediction of Aquatic Ape.
> > What is "habilis"? an amalgan of mostly E.Afr.apiths + some Homo?

> if you assume an Asian origins, yes. Definitely. But WHAT it is wouldn't
> be the relevant bit here. No, what is relevant is that we see an unambiguous
> increase in brain size, which is a prediction of Aquatic Ape.
> We have within the fossil record, in the case of habilis, an unambiguous
> jump in brain size, which is a prediction of Aquatic Ape.

Yes, whether is was Africa/Arabia/Europe/Asia is not so important, it was littoral.
Brain enlargement (whether in ancestors or in relatives) suggests cold+salt water:
Manger cs 2021 Scient Reports 11,5486

> > > Call it a hunch, but I would think that diving came later. That, at first all
> > > they did was walk along the shore, eating. If it washed up or they could
> > > dig it up, it was dinner. This alon[e] would have provided far more protein
> > > for less labor than any inland population could hope for, but orders of
> > > magnitude more Omega-3s..more brain building Omega-3s.

> > Regular diving came late: not before the Pleistocene?

> I have no idea when. Like I said, it's on the level of a hunch.

Manger cs 2021: probably cold water = Pleist.?
> i like your idea that "Humans" really hit their stride with erectus. It seems
> that anything before is a little too different, and everything after is far too
> close to the same.

H.erectus is no doubt slow+shallow-diving. H.habilis possibly.

> > That we were marine mammals is proven by several independent facts (thanks, Michel Odent!):
> > - erectus' pachyosteosclerosis,
> > - our vernix caseosa,
> > - our iodine needs,
> > - Homo's big brain,
> > - intercontinental dispersal,
> > - island colonisations etc.
> > Only incredible idiots believe their ancestors ran after antelopes.

> Oh, trust me, I've accepted your position. What I'm doing is moving on,
> building a model with it. I'm not arguing against your Aquatic anything.
> I'm basing everything on it. You're a starting point.

:-)

The biggest problem is not whether our seaside evolution is correct, but how is it possible that nonsense like antelope running got published in Nature?!?

> > > This is one reason why I love Aquatic Ape so much: They didn't have to
> > > ""Evolve" into geniuses. Their brains were going to get bigger just from
> > > eating all those Omega-3s. At the very least they were going to attain
> > > their maximum size allowable with their genetics. When mutations
> > > resulted in bigger-brain genes they could exploit them immediately without
> > > doing anything new.
> > Yes.

> Savanna "Theory" says they evolved an upright stance and the ability to run
> by standing upright & running. It is a textbook example of a circular argument.

Indeed: that's what we've been saying for ages.

> Aquatic Ape says that their brains HAD TO grow just as large as they could,
> because of all those brain building Omega-3s, that they were going to get
> smarter without even trying, they were going to push into new territories,
> face new obstacles, new riddles to solve, even as their brains were growing
> bigger & smarter... FIRST they grew smarter, THEN they figured out tools &
> such.

Yes, although I'm still no sure what to think of Manger:

"Amplification of potential thermogenetic mechanisms in cetacean brains compared to artiodactyl brains"
Paul Manger cs 2021 Scientific Reports 11, 5486
.... we examined 16 cetartiodactyl brains (14 spp) immunohistochemically for
non-shivering thermogenesis:
the 5 cetacean brains (3 spp, vs the 11 artiodactyl brains, 11 spp) exhibit
- an expanded expression of uncoupling protein-1 in cortical neurons,
- immuno-localization of UCP4 within a substantial proportion of glia throughout the brain,
- an increased density of noradrenergic axonal boutons (noradrenaline controls concentrations of and activates UCPs).
(UCPs are mitochondrial inner membrane proteins, that dissipate the proton gradient to generate heat):
cetacean brains studied possess multiple characteristics indicative of intensified thermogenetic functionality,
these can be related to their current & historical obligatory aquatic niche.
This necessitates re-assessment of our concepts re. the reasons for large brain evolution & associated functional capacities in Cetacea.

See my comment there.

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yes, whether is was Africa/Arabia/Europe/Asia is not so important, it was littoral.

I agree. It's not about a specific place, it's about an environment.

...fits Punctuated Equilibrium.

You're hitting all the buckets here.

> > i like your idea that "Humans" really hit their stride with erectus. It seems
> > that anything before is a little too different, and everything after is far too
> > close to the same.

> H.erectus is no doubt slow+shallow-diving. H.habilis possibly.

I dunno. Habilis or their immediate ancestor probably just ate what they could
find along the water line then moved on when it was gone.

> The biggest problem is not whether our seaside evolution is correct, but how is it
> possible that nonsense like antelope running got published in Nature?!?

It's a classic preservation bias. They based everything on what they dug up, without
looking for any other possibilities. And, they only dug were it was easy and fossils
were likely to occur.

Even today it's common to find people who think gorillas & chimps are frozen in
time, appearing exactly as their ancestors did millions of years ago, while we
kept evolving.

"We're closest to chimps. Chimps live in Africa. We had to come from Africa."

> > Savanna "Theory" says they evolved an upright stance and the ability to run
> > by standing upright & running. It is a textbook example of a circular argument.

> Indeed: that's what we've been saying for ages.

The aquatic diet allowed brains to grow just as much as genetics would allow,
but their seems to be an assumption that humans and our intelligence was
somehow inevitable.

Life can't just order up any damn mutation. And a mutation won't necessarily be
intelligence, it could be anything...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/681558557689266176