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tech / sci.electronics.design / Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

SubjectAuthor
* Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometerJan Panteltje
+- Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometerwhit3rd
`* Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometerJeroen Belleman
 +- Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometerJan Panteltje
 `* Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometerMartin Brown
  `- Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometerGlen Walpert

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Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

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From: ali...@comet.invalid (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:30:49 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Fri, 5 Jan 2024 04:30 UTC

Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
MIT news:
https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-3d-print-components-portable-mass-spectrometer-0104

Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

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Subject: Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
From: whit...@gmail.com (whit3rd)
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 by: whit3rd - Fri, 5 Jan 2024 05:57 UTC

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
> MIT news:
> https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-3d-print-components-portable-mass-spectrometer-0104

Great project! There's a lot of vacuum tubes, too, that could benefit from such electrode
statuary as only a 3D printer could make. The Xray laser prospects alone are staggering.

Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

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From: jer...@nospam.please (Jeroen Belleman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 13:29:45 +0100
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 by: Jeroen Belleman - Fri, 5 Jan 2024 12:29 UTC

On 1/5/24 05:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
> MIT news:
> https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-3d-print-components-portable-mass-spectrometer-0104

So they 3D-print the electrodes and their supports from
some glass-ceramic-resin composite and then use electroless
metal deposition on the surfaces that are to become the
electrodes. Metallizing just the electrodes while avoiding
the support structure might be fiddly.

I think the traditional rod electrodes weren't the hardest
part in a mass spectrometer anyway. The vacuum system and a
reliable sample input port are what makes it expensive.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

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From: ali...@comet.invalid (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 14:47:59 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Fri, 5 Jan 2024 14:47 UTC

On a sunny day (Fri, 5 Jan 2024 13:29:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <un8smg$59o4$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 1/5/24 05:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
>> MIT news:
>> https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-3d-print-components-portable-mass-spectrometer-0104
>
>
>So they 3D-print the electrodes and their supports from
>some glass-ceramic-resin composite and then use electroless
>metal deposition on the surfaces that are to become the
>electrodes. Metallizing just the electrodes while avoiding
>the support structure might be fiddly.
>
>I think the traditional rod electrodes weren't the hardest
>part in a mass spectrometer anyway. The vacuum system and a
>reliable sample input port are what makes it expensive.

Much hight tech stuff is 3D printed these days, take for example Relativity Space:
https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/marshall/3d-printed-rocket-launched-using-innovative-nasa-alloy/

I have been considering buying some 3D printing system myself
but do not really have the safe space for it here, some of that stuff
needs a polluted air sucking system to get rid of the vapors, maybe garden shed, but its full of garden tools
and no electricity and no heating..

I worked in a large university hospital for a while where part of my job was to keep their mass spectrometer running,
was also used to do criminal research, so I did get some sort of intro on how it worked...
Did not break down then though :-)

Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

<unba6q$ik9f$1@dont-email.me>

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:31:52 +0000
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 by: Martin Brown - Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:31 UTC

On 05/01/2024 12:29, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 1/5/24 05:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
>> MIT news:
>>
>> https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-3d-print-components-portable-mass-spectrometer-0104
>
> So they 3D-print the electrodes and their supports from
> some glass-ceramic-resin composite and then use electroless
> metal deposition on the surfaces that are to become the
> electrodes. Metallizing just the electrodes while avoiding
> the support structure might be fiddly.

I'd be surprised if it didn't outgas essentially forever using that
manufacturing technique. Lost wax casting might stand more chance...

> I think the traditional rod electrodes weren't the hardest
> part in a mass spectrometer anyway. The vacuum system and a
> reliable sample input port are what makes it expensive.

Particularly for the precision hard vacuum of magnetic sector mass specs
which are typically baked to 150C to get the last traces of water off
the internal surfaces as a part of commissioning. It was bad news if
someone left a screwdriver inside at that stage (and it did happen).

When I was involved in that game only a handful of plastics could handle
that sort of abuse PTFE and the engineering plastic PEEK.

Quadrupoles will tolerate a much worse vacuum - I can't recall by how
much but ICPMS effectively works with a pinhole facing a 8000K plasma at
1ATM and some Faraday cup and turbo pump based ones could survive
without interlocks. The main difficulty was keeping the sampling orifice
from melting! Classic ones with oil diffusion pumps you had a very big
cleaning job to do if the vacuum protection system interlocks failed.

The high end ones with ion counting sensors in needed a decent vacuum
all the time and a photon stop to avoid the sensor seeing the plasma
flame. They had sophisticated interlocks to prevent various forms of
catastrophic failures like meltdown, fire, flood and other mayhem.

--
Martin Brown

Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

<YkdmN.201020$83n7.173606@fx18.iad>

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From: nos...@null.void (Glen Walpert)
Subject: Re: Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
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 by: Glen Walpert - Sat, 6 Jan 2024 14:20 UTC

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:31:52 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

> On 05/01/2024 12:29, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 1/5/24 05:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer MIT
>>> news:
>>>
>>> https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-3d-print-components-portable-
mass-spectrometer-0104
>>
>> So they 3D-print the electrodes and their supports from some
>> glass-ceramic-resin composite and then use electroless metal deposition
>> on the surfaces that are to become the electrodes. Metallizing just the
>> electrodes while avoiding the support structure might be fiddly.
>
> I'd be surprised if it didn't outgas essentially forever using that
> manufacturing technique. Lost wax casting might stand more chance...

I think that the 800C rating of the glass-ceramic material should be
adequate for bake-out, and as you point out below ultra-high vacuum is not
required for quadrapole MS. The study was funded by a company in the
medical MS business, probably not out of kindness.

Likely suspect for the 3D printing system:

<https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/breakthrough-ceramic-glass-material-
for-3d-printing-launched-by-lithoz-and-glassomer-221583/>

<https://lithoz.com/en/lithoz-and-glassomer-launch-innovation-partnership-
presenting-lithaglass-powered-by-glassomer-a-3d-printable-quartz-glass-
for-high-performance-applications/>

"LithaGlass ... a composite slurry with a base of quartz glass ...
The design freedom of 3D printing combines with the desirable properties
of high-performance fused silica glass – such as mechanical stability and
high thermal and chemical resistance, as well as low thermal expansion and
a resulting high thermal shock resistance. With LithaGlass being closer to
a ceramic than standard glasses like soda lime glass, it also has the
desirable material properties of fused silica glass including a low
thermal expansion and high thermal shock resistance."

Sparse on details, but likely any resin used as binder is baked out in the
process of heating to particle fusing temperature, although post-printing
processing is not discussed. If they have a resin that can withstand the
800C working temp of the finished product that would be rather
impressive. Perhaps they are using some non-polymer binder with no post
processing required, they have not identified any component of the slurry
except for silica.

>> I think the traditional rod electrodes weren't the hardest part in a
>> mass spectrometer anyway. The vacuum system and a reliable sample input
>> port are what makes it expensive.
>
> Particularly for the precision hard vacuum of magnetic sector mass specs
> which are typically baked to 150C to get the last traces of water off
> the internal surfaces as a part of commissioning. It was bad news if
> someone left a screwdriver inside at that stage (and it did happen).
>
> When I was involved in that game only a handful of plastics could handle
> that sort of abuse PTFE and the engineering plastic PEEK.
>
> Quadrupoles will tolerate a much worse vacuum - I can't recall by how
> much but ICPMS effectively works with a pinhole facing a 8000K plasma at
> 1ATM and some Faraday cup and turbo pump based ones could survive
> without interlocks. The main difficulty was keeping the sampling orifice
> from melting! Classic ones with oil diffusion pumps you had a very big
> cleaning job to do if the vacuum protection system interlocks failed.
>
> The high end ones with ion counting sensors in needed a decent vacuum
> all the time and a photon stop to avoid the sensor seeing the plasma
> flame. They had sophisticated interlocks to prevent various forms of
> catastrophic failures like meltdown, fire, flood and other mayhem.


tech / sci.electronics.design / Researchers 3D print components for a portable mass spectrometer

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