It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.

And the sun is shining.

https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco

On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28 PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
> It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
> here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
> HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
>
> And the sun is shining.
>
> https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco

Did you have a reasonable warning time?

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:38:50 -0800 (PST), Dean
<hoffman54dean@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28?PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
>> It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
>> here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
>> HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
>>
>> And the sun is shining.
>>
>> https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
>
> Did you have a reasonable warning time?

The weather on the west coast is chaotic, with the atmospheric rivers
wrything like snakes. The forecasts change hourly and are still
usually wrong. But there have been predictions of violent weather for
a couple of days.

The land is fragile here, seismically young, with a thin layer of soil
over rock, and shallow-rooted non-native trees ready to topple over
with a bit of rain and wind. The eucalyptus are killers.

Check Youtube for "Pacifica drone." Camelot, our favorite fake British
pub, will fall into the ocean eventually. They have Harp and
Boddington on tap and you can get fried oysters instead of fish with
your chips.

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 1:52:38 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 4:19:28 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> > It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
> > here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
> > HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
> >
> > And the sun is shining.
> >
> > https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
> https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2740/climate-change-may-lead-to-bigger-atmospheric-rivers/
>
> There's enough atmospheric energy to create powerful enough winds to destroy every bit of man-made infrastructure. Eventually tall buildings will be evacuated and bridges closed.

So far the disasters are limited to shoddy infra-structure. There are some remarkably robust structures around - the pyramids aren't going to get blown away any time soon. Fred doesn't seem to have any more sense than Cursitor Doom.

Your own belief - that climate change isn't actually happening and wouldn't matter if it did - is equally stupid, but it reflects that fact you are a gullible twit who believes the climate change denial propaganda peddled by the fossil carbon extraction industry in the hope of keeping their cash flow high for a few more years.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 2:19:55 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 10:05:52 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 1:52:38 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 4:19:28 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
> > > > here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
> > > > HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
> > > >
> > > > And the sun is shining.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
> > > https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2740/climate-change-may-lead-to-bigger-atmospheric-rivers/
> > >
> > > There's enough atmospheric energy to create powerful enough winds to destroy every bit of man-made infrastructure. Eventually tall buildings will be evacuated and bridges closed.
> >
> > So far the disasters are limited to shoddy infra-structure. There are some remarkably robust structures around - the pyramids aren't going to get blown away any time soon. Fred doesn't seem to have any more sense than Cursitor Doom.
>
> Pyramids are piles of rubble.

Actually, piled up shaped rocks. Not highly engineered infra-structure, but they still suck in gawking tourists.
> Reductio ad absurdum much?

You do have quite a few absurd ideas. Emphasising how silly they are isn't exactly difficult.
> > Your own belief - that climate change isn't actually happening and wouldn't matter if it did - is equally stupid, but it reflects that fact you are a gullible twit who believes the climate change denial propaganda peddled by the fossil carbon extraction industry in the hope of keeping their cash flow high for a few more years.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 2:17:20 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:05:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:38:50 -0800 (PST), Dean
> > <hoffma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28?PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
> > >> It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
> > >> here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
> > >> HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
> > >>
> > >> And the sun is shining.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
> > >
> > > Did you have a reasonable warning time?
> > The weather on the west coast is chaotic, with the atmospheric rivers
> > wrything like snakes. The forecasts change hourly and are still
> > usually wrong. But there have been predictions of violent weather for
> > a couple of days.
> >
> > The land is fragile here, seismically young, with a thin layer of soil
> > over rock, and shallow-rooted non-native trees ready to topple over
> > with a bit of rain and wind. The eucalyptus are killers.
>
> Can't help but laugh when people think trees and shrubs will prevent landslides. They help with surface erosion but do nothing to anchor 30 ft deep soil saturated with enough moisture to reduce internal shear friction to the point of being well in excess of a stable angle of repose, the kind of failure responsible for 'slides.'

Thirty feet of soil is not a thin layer. You've got to have plants there for very long time to build up that much soil

> Big trees are held steady against strong winds by an extensive system of surface feeder roots, which can greatly exceed the span of the dripline by a factor of 10x. Deep roots going down vertically do nothing to stabilize the tree, they're ground water taps.

The fact that they are ground water taps doesn't stop them from providing additional mechanical stability.

> Problem is the urban environment doesn't allow that kind of shallow lateral development as roots are blocked from expanding by houses, sidewalk, roads, and what have you, so big trees blow over, fall on houses, parked cars, and power lines. With few exceptions, most flora is comparatively shallow rooted.
>
> The eucalyptus trees introduced by wannabe horticulturalists from Australia, who didn't know what they were doing, are the worst threat. In their native land, they grow on rocky steeply sloped terrain in soil that's nutrient depleted, meaning they stay small to mid-sized. But in the nutrient rich California soil they grow to enormous size and are extremely heavy.

They can get pretty big in Australia, which is a continent and offers a lot of different environments.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-05/search-for-australias-giants-where-is-our-biggest-tree/8766292

"In 2005 the world's tallest measured living tree was a 112.7-metre-high coast redwood growing in Humboldt Redwoods National Park, California." but
"Although there are claims of mountain ash (Eucalyptus regnans) in southern Australia growing to over 120 metres, the tallest ever officially measured was 107 metres. "
"Today the tallest living known specimen is a 99.8-metre tree called Centurion in the Arve Valley, Tasmania. It was found and measured in 2008, replacing the previous record holder, the 97-metre-high Icarus Dream in the Styx Valley."

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 07:17:14 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:05:54?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:38:50 -0800 (PST), Dean
>> <hoffma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28?PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
>> >> here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
>> >> HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
>> >>
>> >> And the sun is shining.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
>> >
>> > Did you have a reasonable warning time?
>> The weather on the west coast is chaotic, with the atmospheric rivers
>> wrything like snakes. The forecasts change hourly and are still
>> usually wrong. But there have been predictions of violent weather for
>> a couple of days.
>>
>> The land is fragile here, seismically young, with a thin layer of soil
>> over rock, and shallow-rooted non-native trees ready to topple over
>> with a bit of rain and wind. The eucalyptus are killers.
>
>Can't help but laugh when people think trees and shrubs will prevent landslides. They help with surface erosion but do nothing to anchor 30 ft deep soil saturated with enough moisture to reduce internal shear friction to the point of being well in excess of a stable angle of repose, the kind of failure responsible for 'slides.' Big trees are held steady against strong winds by an extensive system of surface feeder roots, which can greatly exceed the span of the dripline by a factor of 10x. Deep roots going down vertically do nothing to stabilize the tree, they're ground water taps. Problem is the urban environment doesn't allow that kind of shallow lateral development as roots are blocked from expanding by houses, sidewalk, roads, and what have you, so big trees blow over, fall on houses, parked cars, and power lines. With few exceptions, most flora is comparatively shallow rooted.
>
>The eucalyptus trees introduced by wannabe horticulturalists from Australia, who didn't know what they were doing, are the worst threat. In their native land, they grow on rocky steeply sloped terrain in soil that's nutrient depleted, meaning they stay small to mid-sized. But in the nutrient rich California soil they grow to enormous size and are extremely heavy.
>
>
>>
>> Check Youtube for "Pacifica drone." Camelot, our favorite fake British
>> pub, will fall into the ocean eventually. They have Harp and
>> Boddington on tap and you can get fried oysters instead of fish with
>> your chips.
>
>It's all the same, all the seafood species will be extinct soon. So the fake pub can slide into the ocean and decompose with the rest of dead and dying.

According to you, we've all died in agony many times by now.

You must be very disappointed to still be alive.

On 2/19/24 1:17 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
> here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
> HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
>
> And the sun is shining.
>
> https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
>

On the bright side, I got half of the wood from a tree that fell into a
road here. So less firewood to buy this year and it came with a free
fitness program because of the splitting that needs to be done.

Luckily nobody was harmed but one woman had a really close call, she
heard a weird crack when driving by and saw the big oak crash down in
her rearview mirror. Unfortunately it damaged a couple of parked vehicles.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 4:18:03 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 11:00:05 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 2:17:20 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:05:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:38:50 -0800 (PST), Dean
> > > > <hoffma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28?PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > >> It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
> > > > >> here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
> > > > >> HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And the sun is shining.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you have a reasonable warning time?
> > > > The weather on the west coast is chaotic, with the atmospheric rivers
> > > > wrything like snakes. The forecasts change hourly and are still
> > > > usually wrong. But there have been predictions of violent weather for
> > > > a couple of days.
> > > >
> > > > The land is fragile here, seismically young, with a thin layer of soil
> > > > over rock, and shallow-rooted non-native trees ready to topple over
> > > > with a bit of rain and wind. The eucalyptus are killers.
> > >
> > > Can't help but laugh when people think trees and shrubs will prevent landslides. They help with surface erosion but do nothing to anchor 30 ft deep soil saturated with enough moisture to reduce internal shear friction to the point of being well in excess of a stable angle of repose, the kind of failure responsible for 'slides.'
> >
> > Thirty feet of soil is not a thin layer. You've got to have plants there for very long time to build up that much soil.
>
> You don't know anything about it, fool. The soil originates from erosion of rock, not plants.

The ignorance is all yours. What you get from eroding rocks is dust, not soil. The organic content in soil comes from plants and fungi.

> > > Big trees are held steady against strong winds by an extensive system of surface feeder roots, which can greatly exceed the span of the dripline by a factor of 10x. Deep roots going down vertically do nothing to stabilize the tree, they're ground water taps.
> >
> > The fact that they are ground water taps doesn't stop them from providing additional mechanical stability.
>
> It's negligible compared to the laterals. I guess you're too dumb to observe plenty of large trees blown over, and these trees have no impediment to deep taproot / heart root development, but they do have impediment to lateral root development.

You do neglect lots of stuff that you can't be bothered to understand. I haven't observed any large trees blown over in my immediate locality but the TV news was recently full of images of large tree that had fallen in the outer suburbs. About twenty years ago our house in Nijmegen lost two old and quite tall poplars to some unusually powerful winds. We got lucky with the wind direction - one of them ended up lying just behind the house next door rather than flattening their bedroom. Poplars are always a menace. My parents house in northwest Tasmania had two at the front, and both blew over on the same - very windy - day.

> > > Problem is the urban environment doesn't allow that kind of shallow lateral development as roots are blocked from expanding by houses, sidewalk, roads, and what have you, so big trees blow over, fall on houses, parked cars, and power lines. With few exceptions, most flora is comparatively shallow rooted.

There wasn't much to inhibit the lateral development of the roots systems of any of the four poplars involved. These were big - four bedroomed - houses on even bigger blocks.

> > > The eucalyptus trees introduced by wannabe horticulturalists from Australia, who didn't know what they were doing, are the worst threat. In their native land, they grow on rocky steeply sloped terrain in soil that's nutrient depleted, meaning they stay small to mid-sized. But in the nutrient rich California soil they grow to enormous size and are extremely heavy.
>
> > They can get pretty big in Australia, which is a continent and offers a lot of different environments.
> >
> > https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-05/search-for-australias-giants-where-is-our-biggest-tree/8766292
> >
> > "In 2005 the world's tallest measured living tree was a 112.7-metre-high coast redwood growing in Humboldt Redwoods National Park, California." but
> > "Although there are claims of mountain ash (Eucalyptus regnans) in southern Australia growing to over 120 metres, the tallest ever officially measured was 107 metres. "
> > "Today the tallest living known specimen is a 99.8-metre tree called Centurion in the Arve Valley, Tasmania. It was found and measured in 2008, replacing the previous record holder, the 97-metre-high Icarus Dream in the Styx Valley."
>
> Those specimens are freak volunteers grown from vulture poop, and not the rule.

They are unusually tall - otherwise nobody would have bothered to measure them - but they occur in natural forests. Australia doesn't have any vultures now, and doesn't seem to have had any for some 50.000 years.

https://www.cnet.com/science/biology/not-an-eagle-misidentified-bird-is-australias-first-fossil-vulture/

It's a fairly old tree - if still growing. Gums of that size tend to be few hundred years old. The pulp and paper mill in Burnie, Tasmania, more or less banned eucalyptus wood more than forty years old - 1.3 metres trunk diameter - because the chemistry of their lignin content messed up the soda-recovery cycle in the pulp mill. There are a couple of similarly tall (if marginally shorter) trees nearby.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_(tree)

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 9:57:56 AM UTC+7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 4:18:03 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 11:00:05 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 2:17:20 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:05:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:38:50 -0800 (PST), Dean
> > > > > <hoffma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28?PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > > >> It's raining and blowing. The house is shaking and trees are falling
> > > > > >> here and there. There are signs on US101 that say DON'T DRIVE. GO
> > > > > >> HOME. I stepped out onto the deck and liked to get blown off.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> And the sun is shining.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> https://www.ventusky.com/san-francisco
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did you have a reasonable warning time?
> > > > > The weather on the west coast is chaotic, with the atmospheric rivers
> > > > > wrything like snakes. The forecasts change hourly and are still
> > > > > usually wrong. But there have been predictions of violent weather for
> > > > > a couple of days.
> > > > >
> > > > > The land is fragile here, seismically young, with a thin layer of soil
> > > > > over rock, and shallow-rooted non-native trees ready to topple over
> > > > > with a bit of rain and wind. The eucalyptus are killers.
> > > >
> > > > Can't help but laugh when people think trees and shrubs will prevent landslides. They help with surface erosion but do nothing to anchor 30 ft deep soil saturated with enough moisture to reduce internal shear friction to the point of being well in excess of a stable angle of repose, the kind of failure responsible for 'slides.'
> > >
> > > Thirty feet of soil is not a thin layer. You've got to have plants there for very long time to build up that much soil.
> >
> > You don't know anything about it, fool. The soil originates from erosion of rock, not plants.
> The ignorance is all yours. What you get from eroding rocks is dust, not soil. The organic content in soil comes from plants and fungi.
> > > > Big trees are held steady against strong winds by an extensive system of surface feeder roots, which can greatly exceed the span of the dripline by a factor of 10x. Deep roots going down vertically do nothing to stabilize the tree, they're ground water taps.
> > >
> > > The fact that they are ground water taps doesn't stop them from providing additional mechanical stability.
> >
> > It's negligible compared to the laterals. I guess you're too dumb to observe plenty of large trees blown over, and these trees have no impediment to deep taproot / heart root development, but they do have impediment to lateral root development.
> You do neglect lots of stuff that you can't be bothered to understand. I haven't observed any large trees blown over in my immediate locality but the TV news was recently full of images of large tree that had fallen in the outer suburbs. About twenty years ago our house in Nijmegen lost two old and quite tall poplars to some unusually powerful winds. We got lucky with the wind direction - one of them ended up lying just behind the house next door rather than flattening their bedroom. Poplars are always a menace. My parents house in northwest Tasmania had two at the front, and both blew over on the same - very windy - day.
> > > > Problem is the urban environment doesn't allow that kind of shallow lateral development as roots are blocked from expanding by houses, sidewalk, roads, and what have you, so big trees blow over, fall on houses, parked cars, and power lines. With few exceptions, most flora is comparatively shallow rooted.
> There wasn't much to inhibit the lateral development of the roots systems of any of the four poplars involved. These were big - four bedroomed - houses on even bigger blocks.
> > > > The eucalyptus trees introduced by wannabe horticulturalists from Australia, who didn't know what they were doing, are the worst threat. In their native land, they grow on rocky steeply sloped terrain in soil that's nutrient depleted, meaning they stay small to mid-sized. But in the nutrient rich California soil they grow to enormous size and are extremely heavy.
> >
> > > They can get pretty big in Australia, which is a continent and offers a lot of different environments.
> > >
> > > https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-05/search-for-australias-giants-where-is-our-biggest-tree/8766292
> > >
> > > "In 2005 the world's tallest measured living tree was a 112.7-metre-high coast redwood growing in Humboldt Redwoods National Park, California." but
> > > "Although there are claims of mountain ash (Eucalyptus regnans) in southern Australia growing to over 120 metres, the tallest ever officially measured was 107 metres. "
> > > "Today the tallest living known specimen is a 99.8-metre tree called Centurion in the Arve Valley, Tasmania. It was found and measured in 2008, replacing the previous record holder, the 97-metre-high Icarus Dream in the Styx Valley."
> >
> > Those specimens are freak volunteers grown from vulture poop, and not the rule.
> They are unusually tall - otherwise nobody would have bothered to measure them - but they occur in natural forests. Australia doesn't have any vultures now, and doesn't seem to have had any for some 50.000 years.
>
> https://www.cnet.com/science/biology/not-an-eagle-misidentified-bird-is-australias-first-fossil-vulture/
>
> It's a fairly old tree - if still growing. Gums of that size tend to be few hundred years old. The pulp and paper mill in Burnie, Tasmania, more or less banned eucalyptus wood more than forty years old - 1.3 metres trunk diameter - because the chemistry of their lignin content messed up the soda-recovery cycle in the pulp mill. There are a couple of similarly tall (if marginally shorter) trees nearby.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_(tree)
>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney
<a href="https://Rekalaba.com/">Kasir Online</a>
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On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 2:05:48 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 9:57:56 PM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 4:18:03 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 11:00:05 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 2:17:20 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:05:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:38:50 -0800 (PST), Dean
> > > > > > <hoffma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28?PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:

<snip>

> > > > > Problem is the urban environment doesn't allow that kind of shallow lateral development as roots are blocked from expanding by houses, sidewalk, roads, and what have you, so big trees blow over, fall on houses, parked cars, and power lines. With few exceptions, most flora is comparatively shallow rooted.
> > There wasn't much to inhibit the lateral development of the roots systems of any of the four poplars involved. These were big - four bedroomed - houses on even bigger blocks.
>
> If the tree is 100 ft tall, it would not be unusual to see lateral root spread out beyond 100-200 ft from the base. Another, and common, vulnerablity is lack of wind exposure during the tree's formative years. Wind exposure and the resulting flexing of limbs and trunk make the tree stronger and more resistant to damage. Wind exposure doesn't need to be constant. Poplars are fast growers, so my guess is there was too much growth occurring between hardening wind events, causing them to fail when the big one hit.

Wrong. Poplar are softwoods, and they don't spend much energy on synthesising fungicides. All four trees blew over because the trunk had rotted, as they frequently do.

https://www.gardenguides.com/116269-diseases-weeping-willow-trees/

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 7:17:20 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:05:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

> > The land is fragile here, seismically young, with a thin layer of soil
> > over rock, and shallow-rooted non-native trees ready to topple over
> > with a bit of rain and wind. The eucalyptus are killers.

> Can't help but laugh when people think trees and shrubs will prevent landslides. They help with surface erosion but do nothing to anchor 30 ft deep soil saturated with enough moisture to reduce internal shear friction...

That differs from tree to tree, but the Seattle landscape is full of hills that persist because
drainage and rooted trees keep the (basically gravel heaps) from obeying the angle of
repose. We call the steepest parts 'parks' or greenspaces, and don't try to run roads
up-and-down there.

A brisk hill walk in a greenspace is a nice way to avoid traffic and get a bit of a workout.

Years back, someone cut down some trees in a park... the city fined 'em
a few hundred thousand for the deed, because city engineers then had to lease
cryogenic gear to stabilize that hill above an important road...

On 2024-02-21, Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
> On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 2:05:48 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 9:57:56 PM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 4:18:03 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> > > On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 11:00:05 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> > > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 2:17:20 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> > > > > On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 7:05:54 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
>> > > > > > On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:38:50 -0800 (PST), Dean
>> > > > > > <hoffma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > >On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 3:19:28?PM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> > > > > Problem is the urban environment doesn't allow that kind of shallow lateral development as roots are blocked from expanding by houses, sidewalk, roads, and what have you, so big trees blow over, fall on houses, parked cars, and power lines. With few exceptions, most flora is comparatively shallow rooted.
>> > There wasn't much to inhibit the lateral development of the roots systems of any of the four poplars involved. These were big - four bedroomed - houses on even bigger blocks.
>>
>> If the tree is 100 ft tall, it would not be unusual to see lateral root spread out beyond 100-200 ft from the base. Another, and common, vulnerablity is lack of wind exposure during the tree's formative years. Wind exposure and the resulting flexing of limbs and trunk make the tree stronger and more resistant to damage. Wind exposure doesn't need to be constant. Poplars are fast growers, so my guess is there was too much growth occurring between hardening wind events, causing them to fail when the big one hit.
>
> Wrong. Poplar are softwoods, and they don't spend much energy on synthesising fungicides. All four trees blew over because the trunk had rotted, as they frequently do.

Like balsa, poplar is a hardwood. but yeah they'll go hollow, and
eventually fail escpecially if under stress.

--
Jasen.
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