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interests / sci.anthropology.paleo / Re: THE SHELTERED APE

SubjectAuthor
* savanna runninglittor...@gmail.com
+* THE SHELTERED APEDD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
|`* Re: THE SHELTERED APElittor...@gmail.com
| +- Re: THE SHELTERED APEDD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
| `* Re: THE SHELTERED APEPaul Crowley
|  `* Re: THE SHELTERED APEPrimum Sapienti
|   `* Re: THE SHELTERED APElittor...@gmail.com
|    +- Re: THE SHELTERED APEPrimum Sapienti
|    `* Re: THE SHELTERED APEPrimum Sapienti
|     `* Re: THE SHELTERED APElittor...@gmail.com
|      `* mv thinks flamingoes are aquatic mammals Re: THE SHELTERED APEPrimum Sapienti
|       `* Re: mv thinks flamingoes are aquatic mammals Re: THE SHELTERED APEI Envy JTEM
|        `- Re: the Continental Shelf Hypothesislittor...@gmail.com
+* Re: sheltering from rainDD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
|`* Re: sheltering from rainDD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
| `- Re: sheltering from rainDD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
`- Re: savanna running with a boatPrimum Sapienti

1
savanna running

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Subject: savanna running
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Fri, 20 May 2022 20:23 UTC

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012

THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: THE SHELTERED APE
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves)
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 by: DD'eDeN aka not - Sat, 21 May 2022 02:03 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 4:23:45 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012

Thanks, it merely confirms the obvious, humans can live anywhere if they have shelter!!
He'll never return to the dangerous sea but sleeps every night in a shelter, just like all Homo sapiens.

Re: sheltering from rain

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Subject: Re: sheltering from rain
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves)
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 by: DD'eDeN aka not - Sat, 21 May 2022 02:10 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 4:23:45 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012

Sulawesi weather Aug 2018: 6 rainy days, often cloudy, he could store rain from roof.

Guam weather Aug 2018
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/guam-hagatna/historic?month=8&year=2018

Of course without shelter, he'd be sharkbait.

Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Sat, 21 May 2022 11:27 UTC

Op zaterdag 21 mei 2022 om 04:03:13 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012

> Thanks, it merely confirms the obvious, humans can live anywhere if they have shelter!!
> He'll never return to the dangerous sea but sleeps every night in a shelter, just like all Homo sapiens.

Present-day humans are clearly not aquatic at all today, and many humans are afraid of drowning. Most older people in my village can't even swim & never swam. I needed special lessons before I learned to swim at 10 or 12 years, and I was more than 30 when I first dared to swim with my head under water, when my daughter said: it's easy, dad, don't be afraid & just do it.
That humans (land mammals) nevertheless have the ability to swim underwater shows that this is a leftover from our evolution.
Only incredible idiots still believe their ancestors ran after antilopes over the savanna.

Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves)
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 by: DD'eDeN aka not - Sat, 21 May 2022 12:15 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 7:27:58 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zaterdag 21 mei 2022 om 04:03:13 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012
>
> > Thanks, it merely confirms the obvious, humans can live anywhere if they have shelter!!
> > He'll never return to the dangerous sea but sleeps every night in a shelter, just like all Homo sapiens.
> Present-day humans are clearly not aquatic at all today, and many humans are afraid of drowning. Most older people in my village can't even swim & never swam. I needed special lessons before I learned to swim at 10 or 12 years, and I was more than 30 when I first dared to swim with my head under water, when my daughter said: it's easy, dad, don't be afraid & just do it.
> That humans (land mammals) nevertheless have the ability to swim underwater shows that this is a leftover from our evolution.
> Only incredible idiots still believe their ancestors ran after antilopes over the savanna.

Our rudimentary aquatic bearing due to :

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Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
From: yelwo...@gmail.com (Paul Crowley)
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 by: Paul Crowley - Sat, 21 May 2022 16:49 UTC

On Saturday 21 May 2022 at 12:27:58 UTC+1, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> Present-day humans are clearly not aquatic at all today, and
> many humans are afraid of drowning. Most older people in my
> village can't even swim & never swam. I needed special lessons
> before I learned to swim at 10 or 12 years,

Highly unusual (i.e. almost unknown) behaviour
for a terrestrial animal. Yet standard for an ape.

This peculiarity of apes calls for an explanation.
The normality of human behaviour -- within
that of apes generally -- shows that humans
never had an aquatic episode in their evolution
since their split from other apes.

> and I was more than 30 when I first dared to swim with my head
> under water, when my daughter said: it's easy, dad, don't be
> afraid & just do it. That humans (land mammals) nevertheless
> have the ability to swim underwater shows that this is a leftover
> from our evolution.

Most terrestrial mammals probably never try
to swim underwater. They've usually no good
reason. Getting across to the other side without
delay is their priority. But they could probably
learn how, if they had reason. Baboons (or some
of them) do swim underwater.

Re: sheltering from rain

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Subject: Re: sheltering from rain
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves)
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 by: DD'eDeN aka not - Mon, 23 May 2022 03:09 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 10:10:47 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 4:23:45 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012
> Sulawesi weather Aug 2018: 6 rainy days, often cloudy, he could store rain from roof.
>
> Guam weather Aug 2018
> https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/guam-hagatna/historic?month=8&year=2018
>
> Of course without shelter, he'd be sharkbait.

Living in a house of wood from forest, above a fish trap which harvests fish containing fresh water and under a roof that collects rainwater but has seabird droppings so must be filtered with a tee shirt. An expert at sea hut survival. 1st month had light rain 1/4 the time. Never suffered direct sun exposure. Only real problem: loneliness.

Aldi Novel Adilang wikipedia

On July 14, 2018, the rope securing the fish trap snapped, sending Adilang drifting into the Pacific Ocean. At the beginning, he had a *month's worth of food and supplies*. Once Adiliang's supplies ran out, he caught fish and cooked them, making a fire out of wood from his fish trap. He collected rainwater and also claimed to have filtered [salt??] water through his shirt to make it drinkable; however, salt cannot be removed through filtering.

Why didn't his friend/neighbor get help?

Re: sheltering from rain

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Subject: Re: sheltering from rain
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves)
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 by: DD'eDeN aka not - Mon, 23 May 2022 03:30 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:09:29 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 10:10:47 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 4:23:45 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012
> > Sulawesi weather Aug 2018: 6 rainy days, often cloudy, he could store rain from roof.
> >
> > Guam weather Aug 2018
> > https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/guam-hagatna/historic?month=8&year=2018
> >
> > Of course without shelter, he'd be sharkbait.
> Living in a house of wood from forest, above a fish trap which harvests fish containing fresh water and under a roof that collects rainwater but has seabird droppings so must be filtered with a tee shirt. An expert at sea hut survival. 1st month had light rain 1/4 the time. Never suffered direct sun exposure. Only real problem: loneliness.
>
> Aldi Novel Adilang wikipedia
>
> On July 14, 2018, the rope securing the fish trap snapped, sending Adilang drifting into the Pacific Ocean. At the beginning, he had a *month's worth of food and supplies*. Once Adiliang's supplies ran out, he caught fish and cooked them, making a fire out of wood from his fish trap. He collected rainwater and also claimed to have filtered [salt??] water through his shirt to make it drinkable; however, salt cannot be removed through filtering.
>
> Why didn't his friend/neighbor get help?

Local newspaper:

He also told me that he always saves drinking water, only three sips a day.

He also told the Manado Tribune that he had heard a voice ordering him to make a shower, until Aldi made a shower made of bamboo.

When it rains at night, Aldi can also collect water.

6. Being approached by a shark

Not only that, in the third week, Aldi also has to defend his life from sharks.

The fins of the fish are visible around the raft during the day.

"I can only pray and the shark is gone," he said, Sunday (16/9/2018), quoted by TribunJatim.com from the Manado Tribune .

Don't ask that, he has also met a giant fish that only looks to his right side.

Aldi admitted that he did not know the type of fish.

On the raft, Aldi's life seems to have been scheduled.

In the morning he catches fish, in the afternoon he lies on the raft and reads the Bible, in the afternoon he cooks, and to save energy he turns off the lights at night.

Re: savanna running with a boat

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Primum Sapienti)
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Subject: Re: savanna running with a boat
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 00:15:49 -0600
Organization: sum
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Mon, 23 May 2022 06:15 UTC

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45649012
>

"He was working on a floating fishing trap, known locally as a rompong,
which is shaped like a hut and floats in the middle of the sea but is
anchored to the seabed by ropes."

Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 00:31:08 -0600
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Mon, 23 May 2022 06:31 UTC

Paul Crowley wrote:
> On Saturday 21 May 2022 at 12:27:58 UTC+1, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Present-day humans are clearly not aquatic at all today, and
>> many humans are afraid of drowning. Most older people in my
>> village can't even swim & never swam. I needed special lessons
>> before I learned to swim at 10 or 12 years,
>
> Highly unusual (i.e. almost unknown) behaviour
> for a terrestrial animal. Yet standard for an ape.
>
> This peculiarity of apes calls for an explanation.
> The normality of human behaviour -- within
> that of apes generally -- shows that humans
> never had an aquatic episode in their evolution
> since their split from other apes.
>
>> and I was more than 30 when I first dared to swim with my head
>> under water, when my daughter said: it's easy, dad, don't be
>> afraid & just do it. That humans (land mammals) nevertheless
>> have the ability to swim underwater shows that this is a leftover
>> from our evolution.
>
> Most terrestrial mammals probably never try
> to swim underwater. They've usually no good
> reason. Getting across to the other side without
> delay is their priority. But they could probably
> learn how, if they had reason. Baboons (or some
> of them) do swim underwater.

Mammals may not always go into the water by choice often but can of
necessity.
That being said

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-puppies-diving-underwater-2014-9

diving tiger
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/7b/52/677b52ecde6d9a5a608dbb0d8995b513.jpg

diving leopard
https://www.catersnews.com/stories/animals/photographer-captures-incredibly-rare-moment-jaguar-dives-to-catch-food/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nV0CRw2ll4
video of leopard under water

Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Mon, 23 May 2022 10:14 UTC

> https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-puppies-diving-underwater-2014-9
> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/7b/52/677b52ecde6d9a5a608dbb0d8995b513.jpg
> https://www.catersnews.com/stories/animals/photographer-captures-incredibly-rare-moment-jaguar-dives-to-catch-food/
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nV0CRw2ll4

Beautiful, thanks a lot!
None of these are furless, have thick SC fat, very large brains, flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis etc.:
they're no habitual divers, unlike H.erectus, who had pachyosteosclerosis = exclusively seen in habitually slow+shallow-diving tetrapods.
Only incredible imbeciles believe their naked, fat, flat-footed, sweating ancestors ran after antelopes over the African plains:
https://crimsonpublishers.com/oara/fulltext/OARA.000537.php

Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Primum Sapienti)
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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 22:44:15 -0600
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Tue, 31 May 2022 04:44 UTC

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-puppies-diving-underwater-2014-9
>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/7b/52/677b52ecde6d9a5a608dbb0d8995b513.jpg
>> https://www.catersnews.com/stories/animals/photographer-captures-incredibly-rare-moment-jaguar-dives-to-catch-food/
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nV0CRw2ll4
>
> Beautiful, thanks a lot!
> None of these are furless, have thick SC fat, very large brains, flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis etc.:
> they're no habitual divers, unlike H.erectus, who had pachyosteosclerosis = exclusively seen in habitually slow+shallow-diving tetrapods.
> Only incredible imbeciles believe their naked, fat, flat-footed, sweating ancestors ran after antelopes over the African plains:
> https://crimsonpublishers.com/oara/fulltext/OARA.000537.php
>
And yet those animals can swim and dive without all that. And no snorkel
noses!

Ever figure why ALL aquatic mammals have short legs and are quadrupeds?

Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Primum Sapienti)
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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 23:09:08 -0600
Organization: sum
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Sat, 25 Jun 2022 05:09 UTC

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-puppies-diving-underwater-2014-9
>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/7b/52/677b52ecde6d9a5a608dbb0d8995b513.jpg
>> https://www.catersnews.com/stories/animals/photographer-captures-incredibly-rare-moment-jaguar-dives-to-catch-food/
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nV0CRw2ll4
>
> Beautiful, thanks a lot!
> None of these are furless, have thick SC fat, very large brains, flat feet, pachyosteosclerosis etc.:
> they're no habitual divers, unlike H.erectus, who had pachyosteosclerosis = exclusively seen in habitually slow+shallow-diving tetrapods.

Swimming and diving do not require all of that as can be plainly seen in
other animals
performing those acts.

> Only incredible imbeciles believe their naked, fat, flat-footed, sweating ancestors ran after antelopes over the African plains:

ALL aquatic mammals are short limbed. ALL of them. We use long legs for
walking and
running.

> https://crimsonpublishers.com/oara/fulltext/OARA.000537.php

Only idiots believe we have snorkel noses.

Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: Re: THE SHELTERED APE
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Sat, 25 Jun 2022 22:27 UTC

Some idiot:

> ALL aquatic mammals are short limbed. ALL of them. We use long legs for
> walking and running.

Like flamingoes?
Never heard of wading??
You must be the most stupid of the kudu runners:
again, our view is not difficult, even for fools like you:

-Mio-Pliocene hominoids = originally aquarboreal
-early-Pleist.H.erectus = fequent littoral diving
-mid-Pleist.H.neand. = diving-wading
-late-Pleist.H.sapiens = wading-walking

mv thinks flamingoes are aquatic mammals Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Primum Sapienti)
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Subject: mv thinks flamingoes are aquatic mammals Re: THE SHELTERED APE
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 16:39:59 -0600
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:39 UTC

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some idiot:
>
>> ALL aquatic mammals are short limbed. ALL of them. We use long legs for
>> walking and running.
>
> Like flamingoes?

This really explains how wrong you are.

> Never heard of wading??
> You must be the most stupid of the kudu runners:
> again, our view is not difficult, even for fools like you:
>
> -Mio-Pliocene hominoids = originally aquarboreal
> -early-Pleist.H.erectus = fequent littoral diving
> -mid-Pleist.H.neand. = diving-wading
> -late-Pleist.H.sapiens = wading-walking
>

Found those snorkel noese yet?

Re: mv thinks flamingoes are aquatic mammals Re: THE SHELTERED APE

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Subject: Re: mv thinks flamingoes are aquatic mammals Re: THE SHELTERED APE
From: jte...@gmail.com (I Envy JTEM)
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 by: I Envy JTEM - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:39 UTC

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> This really explains how wrong you are.

Hmm. You know you're an idiot. Right? Because everyone accepts
coastal dispersal which REQUIRES Aquatic Ape. It's a necessity. It's
the only reason for them to be on the beaches, the only way they
could eat and even gives them the reason for "Migrating": They
picked a stretch clean then moved on!

It even explains the inland populations, the distinct groups like
Neanderthals, Denisovans and whatever others you want to speak
out. Groups traveled inland, adapted, became extinct -- especially
during lengthy glacial periods -- only to reconnect with the coastal
groups during the next interglacial...

Nothing else explains any of this. The savanna idiocy has monkeys
falling out of trees, landing on some grass only to engage in endurance
hunting which caused them to evolve into something that could
endurance hunt...

It's laughable, and explains nothing. It offers no mechanisms to allow
for our evolution much less our dispersal, and can't even explain the
development of tools.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688075122732597248

Re: the Continental Shelf Hypothesis

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Subject: Re: the Continental Shelf Hypothesis
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 09:29 UTC

Op maandag 27 juni 2022 om 05:39:16 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

....

> It even explains the inland populations, the distinct groups like
> Neanderthals, Denisovans and whatever others you want to speak
> out. Groups traveled inland, adapted, became extinct -- especially
> during lengthy glacial periods -- only to reconnect with the coastal
> groups during the next interglacial
....

I don't know.
During Glacials, sea-coasts were much lower, on today's continental shelves:
perhaps they got more connections with neighbouring groups during Glacials??
"Glacial" fossils are now possibly mostly tens of meters underwater (our Continental Shelf Hypothesis).
Where there more or less coastal foods (esp.shellfish?) during Glacials??
Since Homo was originally (sub)tropical, were they during Glacials more coastal (warmer)??

I just re-read my 2013 paper, google "misconceptions aquatic ape Verhaegen",
it's better than I thought... :-)

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