In the wake of a voter-approved law, Subaru and Kia dealers in
Massachusetts have disabled systems that allow remote starts and send
maintenance alerts.
.....
.....
.....
For Siegel, the controversy points to a bigger and woolier question
about whether consumers understand just how much data is flowing from
their vehicles and where it goes. There's money to be made from a
car's GPS location, temperature data, biometric info, and data on key
parts. A few years ago, Siegel and his colleagues estimated that the
US connected-car data market could be worth up to $92 billion, with
everyone from manufacturers and parts suppliers to dealers and
insurers racing for a share. "The most important thing is to show
people their own breadcrumbs," Siegel says.

https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/

***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.

On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:

> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>
> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.

My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable. The GM mech trusted
by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
keep the POS from accelerating all by itself. Ultimately he found that
a certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even
available from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.

Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me. The
only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires.
I really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage
some of the brand new stuff.

--
Cheers, Bev
"I don't need instructions, I have a hammer."
-- T.W. Wier

On 10/2/2022 12:59 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>
>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>
>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words.  I'll stick
>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.
>
> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable.  The GM mech trusted
> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself.  Ultimately he found that
> a certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even
> available from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>
> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me.  The
> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires. I
> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
> of the brand new stuff.
>
A faulty IAC has been known to do that.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 02/10/2022 01:01 AM, Xeno wrote:
> On 10/2/2022 12:59 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>>
>>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
>>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.
>>
>> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable. The GM mech trusted
>> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
>> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself. Ultimately he found that
>> a certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even
>> available from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>>
>> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me. The
>> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
>> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires. I
>> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
>> of the brand new stuff.
>>
> A faulty IAC has been known to do that.

I'm pretty sure you don't mean Infrastructure As Code here. The guy
opined that there might be instantaneous computer problems that would
allow the thing to reset itself in pedal-to-the-metal mode, but that was
just a guess. The only symptom was sudden total acceleration requiring
serious hard braking to stop. I don't think my mom could have done it.
Get to the side, turn off the key, breathe deeply a few times, restart
and everything is normal. It first happened 3 times in 90 miles, but
mostly only once/day thereafter.

--
Cheers, Bev
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your
informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
- Harlan Ellison

On 02/10/2022 08:59 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/10/2022 01:01 AM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 10/2/2022 12:59 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>>>
>>>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>>>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>>>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
>>>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.
>>>
>>> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable. The GM mech trusted
>>> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
>>> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself. Ultimately he found that
>>> a certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even
>>> available from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>>>
>>> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me. The
>>> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
>>> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires. I
>>> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
>>> of the brand new stuff.
>>>
>> A faulty IAC has been known to do that.
>
> I'm pretty sure you don't mean Infrastructure As Code here. The guy
> opined that there might be instantaneous computer problems that would
> allow the thing to reset itself in pedal-to-the-metal mode, but that was
> just a guess. The only symptom was sudden total acceleration requiring
> serious hard braking to stop. I don't think my mom could have done it.
> Get to the side, turn off the key, breathe deeply a few times, restart
> and everything is normal. It first happened 3 times in 90 miles, but
> mostly only once/day thereafter.

OK, Idle Air Control valve. What I read said that its failure caused
stalling, not maximum acceleration.

--
Cheers, Bev
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your
informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
- Harlan Ellison

On 2/9/2022 20:59, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>
>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>
>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.
>
> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable. The GM mech trusted
> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself. Ultimately he found that a
> certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even available
> from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.

Luxury car makers seemed to start this non-serviceable mess earlier.

> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me. The
> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires. I
> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
> of the brand new stuff.

Why is it illegal to salvage parts from a scrap yard? Yards/wreckers
near us sell parts until the car is picked clean before it is crushed.
Used tires and all.

On 2/10/2022 1:06 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 2/9/2022 20:59, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>>
>>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
>>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.
>>
>> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable. The GM mech trusted
>> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
>> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself. Ultimately he found that a
>> certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even available
>> from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>
> Luxury car makers seemed to start this non-serviceable mess earlier.
>
>> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me. The
>> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
>> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires. I
>> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
>> of the brand new stuff.
>
> Why is it illegal to salvage parts from a scrap yard?  Yards/wreckers
> near us sell parts until the car is picked clean before it is crushed.
> Used tires and all.

Requirement of Cash for Clunkers.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On 02/10/2022 10:06 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 2/9/2022 20:59, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>>
>>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
>>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding them.
>>
>> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable. The GM mech trusted
>> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
>> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself. Ultimately he found that a
>> certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even available
>> from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>
> Luxury car makers seemed to start this non-serviceable mess earlier.
>
>> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me. The
>> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
>> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires. I
>> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
>> of the brand new stuff.
>
> Why is it illegal to salvage parts from a scrap yard? Yards/wreckers
> near us sell parts until the car is picked clean before it is crushed.
> Used tires and all.

We have a wrecking yard called Pick-a-Part. They take some stuff out of
the wrecks, but most stuff is removed by the prospective buyer. I think
they'll loan you basic tools, but my son brought his own when he needed
a door handle. I like wrecking yards and the people who run them.

Kalifornia will pay you $1K to crush your old smog-emitting car. You
have to get approved and then drive to a certain wrecking yard who
verifies that your car has all required parts and can move 50 feet
forward and backward under its own power. The intent is to get old cars
off the road. Forbidding the re-use of parts is just another way of
doing it.

I really hate the concept. I don't like waste. I believe in recycling,
re-use etc. I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique cars on the
road any more. I think it drove the price of used cars up even before
the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone. I could have
got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker. I got $1K for
destroying it. Stupid to do the right thing. I hate Kalifornia.

The smog is certainly better now than when I and my children were kids,
but we've hit the diminishing-return threshold. Now it's just the
smog-control industry (and regulators, of course) staying in business.
Several years ago the Powers That Be thought it would be a good idea to
pave all the dirt roads in LA County to keep down the dust (particulate
matter). Fortunately cooler heads prevailed. Tons of shit like that,
though. Thank god we don't need gas-powered snow-blowers here; they're
going after the leaf-blowers now, and probably lawnmowers next.

--
Cheers, Bev
I bought a tape called "Subliminal Advertising"
The next day I bought 47 more.

The Real Bev wrote:

>
> I really hate the concept.  I don't like waste.  I believe in recycling,
> re-use etc.  I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique cars on the
> road any more.  I think it drove the price of used cars up even before
> the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone.  I could have
> got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker.  I got $1K for
> destroying it.  Stupid to do the right thing.  I hate Kalifornia.
>

Indeed. I have a car with a fuel pressure regulator that wasn't used in
any other car, so out of stock for years. If I were in California, I
would be shit out of luck.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>> A faulty IAC has been known to do that.
>
>I'm pretty sure you don't mean Infrastructure As Code here.

It's what people did after automatic chokes, but before fully controlled
injection systems.

>The guy
>opined that there might be instantaneous computer problems that would
>allow the thing to reset itself in pedal-to-the-metal mode, but that was
>just a guess. The only symptom was sudden total acceleration requiring
>serious hard braking to stop. I don't think my mom could have done it.

A -modern- car has a computer that logs everything, and so you could actually
see what was going in and coming out during the incident, after the fact.

An -old- car has a mechanically operated throttle so you could physically
inspect the throttle mechanism and cable and see possible failures.

The problem is that THIS is a car that is in-between the -modern- and -old-
eras. It has a computer system, but not a very good one, and not one with
proper diagnostic interfaces. It's in a gap.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 11/2/2022 3:59 am, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/10/2022 01:01 AM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 10/2/2022 12:59 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>>>
>>>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>>>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>>>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words.  I'll stick
>>>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable.  The GM mech trusted
>>> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
>>> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself.  Ultimately he found that
>>> a certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even
>>> available from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>>>
>>> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me.  The
>>> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
>>> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and tires. I
>>> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
>>> of the brand new stuff.
>>>
>> A faulty IAC has been known to do that.
>
> I'm pretty sure you don't mean Infrastructure As Code here.  The guy

Err, no. I meant Idle Air Control.

> opined that there might be instantaneous computer problems that would
> allow the thing to reset itself in pedal-to-the-metal mode, but that was
> just a guess.  The only symptom was sudden total acceleration requiring
> serious hard braking to stop.  I don't think my mom could have done it.
>  Get to the side, turn off the key, breathe deeply a few times, restart
> and everything is normal.  It first happened 3 times in 90 miles, but
> mostly only once/day thereafter.
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 11/2/2022 4:02 am, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/10/2022 08:59 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/10/2022 01:01 AM, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 10/2/2022 12:59 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>>>>
>>>>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>>>>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>>>>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words.  I'll stick
>>>>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding
>>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable.  The GM mech
>>>> trusted
>>>> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
>>>> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself.  Ultimately he found that
>>>> a certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even
>>>> available from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>>>>
>>>> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me.  The
>>>> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
>>>> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and
>>>> tires. I
>>>> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
>>>> of the brand new stuff.
>>>>
>>> A faulty IAC has been known to do that.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure you don't mean Infrastructure As Code here.  The guy
>> opined that there might be instantaneous computer problems that would
>> allow the thing to reset itself in pedal-to-the-metal mode, but that was
>> just a guess.  The only symptom was sudden total acceleration requiring
>> serious hard braking to stop.  I don't think my mom could have done it.
>>    Get to the side, turn off the key, breathe deeply a few times, restart
>> and everything is normal.  It first happened 3 times in 90 miles, but
>> mostly only once/day thereafter.
>
> OK, Idle Air Control valve.  What I read said that its failure caused
> stalling, not maximum acceleration.
>
Failure closed - stalling, yes. Failure wide open and the car can get up
to 40mph+ just on that IAC alone.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 02/10/2022 03:10 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>> A faulty IAC has been known to do that.
>>
>>I'm pretty sure you don't mean Infrastructure As Code here.
>
> It's what people did after automatic chokes, but before fully controlled
> injection systems.
>
>>The guy
>>opined that there might be instantaneous computer problems that would
>>allow the thing to reset itself in pedal-to-the-metal mode, but that was
>>just a guess. The only symptom was sudden total acceleration requiring
>>serious hard braking to stop. I don't think my mom could have done it.

The first time it happened scared the shit out of me. I had to decide
whether to drive the 80 miles home or call the auto club. I drove.
The next 10 or so were just a problem to be dealt with, ultimately by
buying a Corolla! Nothing but brake pads, oil changes and a "cabin air
filter" in 6 years.

> A -modern- car has a computer that logs everything, and so you could actually
> see what was going in and coming out during the incident, after the fact.

There was some sort of code that could be read out, but NOBODY knew what
it meant. It may simply have been garbled.

> An -old- car has a mechanically operated throttle so you could physically
> inspect the throttle mechanism and cable and see possible failures.

There were parts of the system that were replaced, and they possibly
cause the different behavior. OTOH, it could have just been an evil
car. I lean toward the latter explanation.

> The problem is that THIS is a car that is in-between the -modern- and -old-
> eras. It has a computer system, but not a very good one, and not one with
> proper diagnostic interfaces. It's in a gap.

Damn thing deserved to die, but I'm really sorry about the money I spent
on it and the new parts that probably got crushed. I would have thought
that things that weren't specific to that car might legally be saved --
tires, for instance.

--
Cheers, Bev
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

On 02/10/2022 04:26 PM, Xeno wrote:
> On 11/2/2022 4:02 am, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/10/2022 08:59 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 02/10/2022 01:01 AM, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 10/2/2022 12:59 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> On 02/08/2022 09:30 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.wired.com/story/fight-right-repair-cars-turns-ugly/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ***This is for the folks here who thing the new cars are just like the
>>>>>> old ones, and maybe even easier to work on... *nope* ... they are
>>>>>> designing them to not be user-serviceable, mark my words. I'll stick
>>>>>> with my 90's and older vehicles, thanks -- I'll just keep hoarding
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> My inherited 88 Caddy was also not pro-serviceable. The GM mech
>>>>> trusted
>>>>> by my friend and his friend who built cars from scratch, was unable to
>>>>> keep the POS from accelerating all by itself. Ultimately he found that
>>>>> a certain part was not only unavailable from GM, it wasn't even
>>>>> available from wrecking yards -- IF that would have fixed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its bad behavior evolved, but it never stopped trying to kill me. The
>>>>> only reason I wasn't happy to see it crushed (Thanks, State of
>>>>> Kalifornia) was that I'd just given it a new braking system and
>>>>> tires. I
>>>>> really hope the wrecker was able to (illegally, of course) salvage some
>>>>> of the brand new stuff.
>>>>>
>>>> A faulty IAC has been known to do that.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure you don't mean Infrastructure As Code here. The guy
>>> opined that there might be instantaneous computer problems that would
>>> allow the thing to reset itself in pedal-to-the-metal mode, but that was
>>> just a guess. The only symptom was sudden total acceleration requiring
>>> serious hard braking to stop. I don't think my mom could have done it.
>>> Get to the side, turn off the key, breathe deeply a few times, restart
>>> and everything is normal. It first happened 3 times in 90 miles, but
>>> mostly only once/day thereafter.
>>
>> OK, Idle Air Control valve. What I read said that its failure caused
>> stalling, not maximum acceleration.
>>
> Failure closed - stalling, yes. Failure wide open and the car can get up
> to 40mph+ just on that IAC alone.

I would guess it STARTED at 60 (my guess at my freeway speed -- medium
traffic, slow lane) and jumped to whatever it was before I slowed it
down -- I wasn't about to look at the speedo!

--
Cheers, Bev
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

On 2/10/2022 17:46, Linird Skinird wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I really hate the concept. I don't like waste. I believe in
>> recycling, re-use etc. I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique
>> cars on the road any more. I think it drove the price of used cars up
>> even before the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone.
>> I could have got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker. I
>> got $1K for destroying it. Stupid to do the right thing. I hate
>> Kalifornia.
>
> Indeed. I have a car with a fuel pressure regulator that wasn't used in
> any other car, so out of stock for years. If I were in California, I
> would be shit out of luck.

There are many reasons that I'm glad that I don't live in California,
and now I can add another to my list.

On 2/12/2022 10:06 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 2/10/2022 17:46, Linird Skinird wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> I really hate the concept.  I don't like waste.  I believe in
>>> recycling, re-use etc.  I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique
>>> cars on the road any more.  I think it drove the price of used cars up
>>> even before the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone.
>>> I could have got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker.  I
>>> got $1K for destroying it.  Stupid to do the right thing.  I hate
>>> Kalifornia.
>>
>> Indeed. I have a car with a fuel pressure regulator that wasn't used in
>> any other car, so out of stock for years. If I were in California, I
>> would be shit out of luck.
>
> There are many reasons that I'm glad that I don't live in California,
> and now I can add another to my list.

There are a lot of places in California that I'd like to see, but I
won't cross that border under the current conditions in that state.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On 02/12/2022 07:37 PM, Ken Olson wrote:
> On 2/12/2022 10:06 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 2/10/2022 17:46, Linird Skinird wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> I really hate the concept. I don't like waste. I believe in
>>>> recycling, re-use etc. I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique
>>>> cars on the road any more. I think it drove the price of used cars up
>>>> even before the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone.
>>>> I could have got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker. I
>>>> got $1K for destroying it. Stupid to do the right thing. I hate
>>>> Kalifornia.
>>>
>>> Indeed. I have a car with a fuel pressure regulator that wasn't used in
>>> any other car, so out of stock for years. If I were in California, I
>>> would be shit out of luck.
>>
>> There are many reasons that I'm glad that I don't live in California,
>> and now I can add another to my list.
>
> There are a lot of places in California that I'd like to see, but I
> won't cross that border under the current conditions in that state.

Everybody should see Death Valley, Yosemite and Sequoia/King's Canyon.
Optional: Vasquez Rocks because you've seen it in so many movies.
Aside from those, the 4-corners states are way better.

OTOH, hardly anybody freezes to death if they sleep outside in winter in
Los Angeles and we have the numbers to prove it!

--
Cheers, Bev
"Let them eat shit."
-- Marcel Antoinette, Marie's little-known brother

On 2/13/2022 14:19, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/12/2022 07:37 PM, Ken Olson wrote:
>> On 2/12/2022 10:06 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 2/10/2022 17:46, Linird Skinird wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I really hate the concept. I don't like waste. I believe in
>>>>> recycling, re-use etc. I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique
>>>>> cars on the road any more. I think it drove the price of used cars up
>>>>> even before the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone.
>>>>> I could have got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker. I
>>>>> got $1K for destroying it. Stupid to do the right thing. I hate
>>>>> Kalifornia.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed. I have a car with a fuel pressure regulator that wasn't used in
>>>> any other car, so out of stock for years. If I were in California, I
>>>> would be shit out of luck.
>>>
>>> There are many reasons that I'm glad that I don't live in California,
>>> and now I can add another to my list.
>>
>> There are a lot of places in California that I'd like to see, but I
>> won't cross that border under the current conditions in that state.

I'll gladly travel there. I plan, at some point in the relative near
future, to drive across country and back. It will probably take me a
month to be satisfied seeing enough. I'll likely never go back, but I'd
love to see San Francisco, and many other areas. That being said, I
certainly never want to live there.

> Everybody should see Death Valley, Yosemite and Sequoia/King's Canyon.
> Optional: Vasquez Rocks because you've seen it in so many movies. Aside
> from those, the 4-corners states are way better.
>
> OTOH, hardly anybody freezes to death if they sleep outside in winter in
> Los Angeles and we have the numbers to prove it!

On 2/13/2022 8:03 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 2/13/2022 14:19, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/12/2022 07:37 PM, Ken Olson wrote:
>>> On 2/12/2022 10:06 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2022 17:46, Linird Skinird wrote:
>>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I really hate the concept. I don't like waste. I believe in
>>>>>> recycling, re-use etc. I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique
>>>>>> cars on the road any more. I think it drove the price of used cars up
>>>>>> even before the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone.
>>>>>> I could have got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker. I
>>>>>> got $1K for destroying it. Stupid to do the right thing. I hate
>>>>>> Kalifornia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. I have a car with a fuel pressure regulator that wasn't
>>>>> used in
>>>>> any other car, so out of stock for years. If I were in California, I
>>>>> would be shit out of luck.
>>>>
>>>> There are many reasons that I'm glad that I don't live in California,
>>>> and now I can add another to my list.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of places in California that I'd like to see, but I
>>> won't cross that border under the current conditions in that state.
>
> I'll gladly travel there.  I plan, at some point in the relative near
> future, to drive across country and back.  It will probably take me a
> month to be satisfied seeing enough.  I'll likely never go back, but I'd
> love to see San Francisco, and many other areas.  That being said, I
> certainly never want to live there.
>
>> Everybody should see Death Valley, Yosemite and Sequoia/King's Canyon.
>> Optional: Vasquez Rocks because you've seen it in so many movies. Aside
>> from those, the 4-corners states are way better.
>>
>> OTOH, hardly anybody freezes to death if they sleep outside in winter in
>> Los Angeles and we have the numbers to prove it!
>

If you're going to walk the streets of SF, bring your galoshes.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On 02/13/2022 05:03 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 2/13/2022 14:19, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 02/12/2022 07:37 PM, Ken Olson wrote:
>>> On 2/12/2022 10:06 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2022 17:46, Linird Skinird wrote:
>>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I really hate the concept. I don't like waste. I believe in
>>>>>> recycling, re-use etc. I hate that it's hard to find old not-antique
>>>>>> cars on the road any more. I think it drove the price of used cars up
>>>>>> even before the recent Troubles -- all the really old ones are gone.
>>>>>> I could have got $250 for the Caddy if I'd driven it to a wrecker. I
>>>>>> got $1K for destroying it. Stupid to do the right thing. I hate
>>>>>> Kalifornia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. I have a car with a fuel pressure regulator that wasn't used in
>>>>> any other car, so out of stock for years. If I were in California, I
>>>>> would be shit out of luck.
>>>>
>>>> There are many reasons that I'm glad that I don't live in California,
>>>> and now I can add another to my list.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of places in California that I'd like to see, but I
>>> won't cross that border under the current conditions in that state.

All things considered, if you exclude governments it's a pretty good
place. The air is nowhere as thick and poisonous as it used to be, honest.

> I'll gladly travel there. I plan, at some point in the relative near
> future, to drive across country and back. It will probably take me a
> month to be satisfied seeing enough. I'll likely never go back, but I'd
> love to see San Francisco, and many other areas. That being said, I
> certainly never want to live there.

The best things in San Francisco are the Exploratorium and the Sutro
ruins, if you can still walk around in them. I don't think they let
tourists drive down Lombard Street, but in took my leg a couple of days
to recover from the trip down in the 1968 Dodge Tradesman van. The rest
of it is tourist crap and homeless junkies. And Muir Woods, of course.

>> Everybody should see Death Valley, Yosemite and Sequoia/King's Canyon.
>> Optional: Vasquez Rocks because you've seen it in so many movies. Aside
>> from those, the 4-corners states are way better.
>>
>> OTOH, hardly anybody freezes to death if they sleep outside in winter in
>> Los Angeles and we have the numbers to prove it!

--
Cheers, Bev
"If Mary Jo could float I would have been president."
-- Ted Kennedy

On 2/14/2022 2:58, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 02/13/2022 05:03 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 2/13/2022 14:19, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 02/12/2022 07:37 PM, Ken Olson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of places in California that I'd like to see, but I
>>>> won't cross that border under the current conditions in that state.
>
> All things considered, if you exclude governments it's a pretty good
> place. The air is nowhere as thick and poisonous as it used to be, honest.
>
>> I'll gladly travel there. I plan, at some point in the relative near
>> future, to drive across country and back. It will probably take me a
>> month to be satisfied seeing enough. I'll likely never go back, but I'd
>> love to see San Francisco, and many other areas. That being said, I
>> certainly never want to live there.
>
> The best things in San Francisco are the Exploratorium and the Sutro
> ruins, if you can still walk around in them. I don't think they let
> tourists drive down Lombard Street, but in took my leg a couple of days
> to recover from the trip down in the 1968 Dodge Tradesman van. The rest
> of it is tourist crap and homeless junkies. And Muir Woods, of course.

I'd be afraid of glazing my brakes over, rather far from home. Keep in
mind, when I do this trip, it'll be in an early 90's Geo Metro... yes, a
cross-country trip (I live on the border of Ohio and PA).

I've driven up the steepest street in the USA, Canton Ave. right here in
Pittsburgh PA; pictures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_Avenue

They don't allow cars to drive down. Those old Ford 300 straight 6's
have amazing low-end torque. I took my '83 with a 3-on-the-tree up in
2nd gear the whole way. Good luck using 2nd gear in almost any other
vehicle.