Hello,

Hope your current passage is good:-)

Now, in:
~~~
Meanwhile the combinations of every extendable circumstance
In our lives continue to blow against it like new leaves
At the edge of a forest a battle rages in and out of
For a whole day.

John Ashbery, But What Is the Reader To Make of Thia?
https://lsoares.blogs.sapo.pt/john-ashbery-but-what-is-the-reader-1767152
~~~

What is "it" in "against it"?
Does it refer to "circumstance," "our lives/life"?
Should the pronoun be a plural?

Also, is the "of" in "in and out of" OK, without having "in and out of
_it_"?

Thanks a lot.
--
Marius Hancu

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 1:55:02 PM UTC-6, Marius Hancu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Hope your current passage is good:-)
>
>
> Now, in:
> ~~~
> Meanwhile the combinations of every extendable circumstance
> In our lives continue to blow against it like new leaves
> At the edge of a forest a battle rages in and out of
> For a whole day.
>
> John Ashbery, But What Is the Reader To Make of Thia?
> https://lsoares.blogs.sapo.pt/john-ashbery-but-what-is-the-reader-1767152
> ~~~
>
> What is "it" in "against it"?
> Does it refer to "circumstance," "our lives/life"?
> Should the pronoun be a plural?

Ashbery was generally considered one of the greatest American poets, so
I'd never say a word against him (such as "boring" or "pointless"), but I
don't feel he was going for comprehensibility.

Anyway, my suggestion for "it" is "the personal, interior life" in the previous
sentence.

> Also, is the "of" in "in and out of" OK, without having "in and out of
> _it_"?

Yes. That might be paraphrased as "At the edge of a forest in and out of
which a battle rages for a whole day."

--
Jerry Friedman

On 6/29/2022 5:47 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Marius Hancu wrote:
>> Hello,

>> Hope your current passage is good:-)

>> Now, in: ~~~ Meanwhile the combinations of every extendable
>> circumstance In our lives continue to blow against it like new
>> leaves At the edge of a forest a battle rages in and out of For a
>> whole day.

>> John Ashbery, But What Is the Reader To Make of Thia?
>> https://lsoares.blogs.sapo.pt/john-ashbery-but-what-is-the-reader-1767152

~~~

>>
>>
What is "it" in "against it"? Does it refer to "circumstance," "our
>> lives/life"? Should the pronoun be a plural?

> Ashbery was generally considered one of the greatest American poets,
> so I'd never say a word against him (such as "boring" or
> "pointless"), but I don't feel he was going for comprehensibility.

> Anyway, my suggestion for "it" is "the personal, interior life" in
> the previous sentence.

>> Also, is the "of" in "in and out of" OK, without having "in and
>> out of _it_"?

But "it's not the background," we are. That seems to put it farther from
us than our interior life would be. Could "it" be the "monstrous
tenderness" we are warned of? I sure don't know, and Stephanie Burt
says in WP that I may be in more distinguished company: "the last
figure whom half the English-language poets alive thought a great model,
and the other half thought incomprehensible".

> Yes. That might be paraphrased as "At the edge of a forest in and
> out of which a battle rages for a whole day."

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 6:41:43 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> On 6/29/2022 5:47 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > Marius Hancu wrote:
> >> Hello,
>
> >> Hope your current passage is good:-)
>
> >> Now, in: ~~~ Meanwhile the combinations of every extendable
> >> circumstance In our lives continue to blow against it like new
> >> leaves At the edge of a forest a battle rages in and out of For a
> >> whole day.
>
> >> John Ashbery, But What Is the Reader To Make of Thia?
> >> https://lsoares.blogs.sapo.pt/john-ashbery-but-what-is-the-reader-1767152
>
> ~~~
>
> >>
> >>
> What is "it" in "against it"? Does it refer to "circumstance," "our
> >> lives/life"? Should the pronoun be a plural?
>
> > Ashbery was generally considered one of the greatest American poets,
> > so I'd never say a word against him (such as "boring" or
> > "pointless"), but I don't feel he was going for comprehensibility.
>
> > Anyway, my suggestion for "it" is "the personal, interior life" in
> > the previous sentence.
....

> But "it's not the background," we are. That seems to put it farther from
> us than our interior life would be. Could "it" be the "monstrous
> tenderness" we are warned of? I sure don't know, and Stephanie Burt
> says in WP that I may be in more distinguished company: "the last
> figure whom half the English-language poets alive thought a great model,
> and the other half thought incomprehensible".
....

Hm. I kind of thought the "it" that's not the background might be the
battle. In fact, there are a lot of problematic "it"s in the poem, plus
the "this" in the title--ambiguities that may be intentional for all I know.

--
Jerry Friedman

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:03:03 AM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 6:41:43 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> > On 6/29/2022 5:47 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > > Marius Hancu wrote:
> > >> Hello,
> >
> > >> Hope your current passage is good:-)
> >
> > >> Now, in: ~~~ Meanwhile the combinations of every extendable
> > >> circumstance In our lives continue to blow against it like new
> > >> leaves At the edge of a forest a battle rages in and out of For a
> > >> whole day.
> >
> > >> John Ashbery, But What Is the Reader To Make of Thia?
> > >> https://lsoares.blogs.sapo.pt/john-ashbery-but-what-is-the-reader-1767152
> >
> > ~~~
> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > What is "it" in "against it"? Does it refer to "circumstance," "our
> > >> lives/life"? Should the pronoun be a plural?
> >
> > > Ashbery was generally considered one of the greatest American poets,
> > > so I'd never say a word against him (such as "boring" or
> > > "pointless"), but I don't feel he was going for comprehensibility.
> >
> > > Anyway, my suggestion for "it" is "the personal, interior life" in
> > > the previous sentence.
> ...
> > But "it's not the background," we are. That seems to put it farther from
> > us than our interior life would be. Could "it" be the "monstrous
> > tenderness" we are warned of? I sure don't know, and Stephanie Burt
> > says in WP that I may be in more distinguished company: "the last
> > figure whom half the English-language poets alive thought a great model,
> > and the other half thought incomprehensible".
> ...
>
> Hm. I kind of thought the "it" that's not the background might be the
> battle. In fact, there are a lot of problematic "it"s in the poem, plus
> the "this" in the title--ambiguities that may be intentional for all I know.

Yes, they are intentional.

>
> --
> Jerry Friedman

Thank you both for suggestions.

I take Ashbery as being great in assembling kaleidoscopic images and in style, less great in clarity of meaning, in rational drive.

Best wishes.
--
Marius Hancu

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 5:52:25 AM UTC-4, marius...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 9:03:03 AM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 6:41:43 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> > > On 6/29/2022 5:47 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > > > Marius Hancu wrote:

> > > >> Now, in: ~~~ Meanwhile the combinations of every extendable
> > > >> circumstance In our lives continue to blow against it like new
> > > >> leaves At the edge of a forest a battle rages in and out of For a
> > > >> whole day.
> > > >> John Ashbery, But What Is the Reader To Make of Thia?
> > > >> https://lsoares.blogs.sapo.pt/john-ashbery-but-what-is-the-reader-1767152
> > > What is "it" in "against it"? Does it refer to "circumstance," "our
> > > >> lives/life"? Should the pronoun be a plural?
> > > > Ashbery was generally considered one of the greatest American poets,
> > > > so I'd never say a word against him (such as "boring" or
> > > > "pointless"), but I don't feel he was going for comprehensibility.
> > > > Anyway, my suggestion for "it" is "the personal, interior life" in
> > > > the previous sentence.
> > > But "it's not the background," we are. That seems to put it farther from
> > > us than our interior life would be. Could "it" be the "monstrous
> > > tenderness" we are warned of? I sure don't know, and Stephanie Burt
> > > says in WP that I may be in more distinguished company: "the last
> > > figure whom half the English-language poets alive thought a great model,
> > > and the other half thought incomprehensible".
> > Hm. I kind of thought the "it" that's not the background might be the
> > battle. In fact, there are a lot of problematic "it"s in the poem, plus
> > the "this" in the title--ambiguities that may be intentional for all I know.
> Yes, they are intentional.
>
> Thank you both for suggestions.
>
> I take Ashbery as being great in assembling kaleidoscopic images and in style, less great in clarity of meaning, in rational drive.

"Clarity of meaning" is not highly valued in poetry.

Can't say what "rational drive" is.