MP Richards 2007 "Diet shift at the Middle/Upper Palaeolithic transition in Europe? The stable isotope evidence" W.Roebroeks ed. "Guts and Brains" Leiden UP p.223-234 Fig.1 & 2
C & N isotopes don’t suggest Hn & Hs were anything but “super-carnivores” (you can’t be more carnivorous than felids):
Hn & Hs diets were intermediate between fresh-water & marine, but nearer to fresh-water, Hn more so than Hs, in agreement with fossil & archeological evidence.

(PDF) Coastal Dispersal of Pleistocene Homo.
Available from
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323832499_Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo
[accessed Jun 04 2022].

But which freshwater foods mostly??
fish? shellfish? algae? reeds? ..?

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> But which freshwater foods mostly??
> fish? shellfish? algae? reeds? ..?

There is a massive selection bias or sampling bias.

Take what you know HERE and apply it to humans:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/saber-toothed-cats-survived-longer-dna-animals-science

It's a type of cat believed extinct in the region starting like 300,000 years
ago. But, that was based on looking where it's easy to look, where
fossils have the best chance of forming. Then they find some remains in
Doggerland and now they know they were only off by like 300,000 years...

The exact same issue exists for Aquatic Ape. The sea shores they lived
on are drowned under more than 100 meters of water, so it's difficult,
dangerous and hyper expensive to look. This is why the top-down
authoritarian joke that pretends it's a science (paleo anthropology) cherry
picks the easiest remains to find and then misrepresents them as
representative of our ancestors.

We don't find much less test a representative sampling of neanderthals. We
find the ones who existed (died) in conditions that favored preservation. We
do not find any of the others.

One might argue that sampling dead people can tell you why THEY died instead
of how all the others lived...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/686063009321336832

Op dinsdag 7 juni 2022 om 00:32:24 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

Neandertal C & N isotopes were not only "supercarnivorous" (impossible, of course, except to idiots) but also simply intermediate between marine & freshwater-foods, nearer to freshwater.
I suggested Hn seasonally followed the river (Rhine, Meuse...) to the sea. Many (late-?)Pleistocene Homo populations might have done that, in parallel.
But I wonder: mostly during glacials? or during interglacials? cf. fossilisations at or below today's sea-level.

> > But which freshwater foods mostly??
> > fish? shellfish? algae? reeds? ..?

> There is a massive selection bias or sampling bias.
> Take what you know HERE and apply it to humans:
> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/saber-toothed-cats-survived-longer-dna-animals-science >
> It's a type of cat believed extinct in the region starting like 300,000 years
> ago. But, that was based on looking where it's easy to look, where
> fossils have the best chance of forming. Then they find some remains in
> Doggerland and now they know they were only off by like 300,000 years...
> The exact same issue exists for Aquatic Ape. The sea shores they lived
> on are drowned under more than 100 meters of water, so it's difficult,
> dangerous and hyper expensive to look. This is why the top-down
> authoritarian joke that pretends it's a science (paleo anthropology) cherry
> picks the easiest remains to find and then misrepresents them as
> representative of our ancestors.
> We don't find much less test a representative sampling of neanderthals. We
> find the ones who existed (died) in conditions that favored preservation. We
> do not find any of the others.
> One might argue that sampling dead people can tell you why THEY died instead
> of how all the others lived...