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tech / sci.lang / What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

SubjectAuthor
* What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"S K
`* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Daud Deden
 `* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Tim Lang
  `* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"wugi
   +* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?Daud Deden
   |`* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?Daud Deden
   | +- Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Daud Deden
   | `- Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Daud Deden
   `* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual;Christian Weisgerber
    +* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Tim Lang
    |+* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Daud Deden
    ||`* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Tim Lang
    || `* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?Daud Deden
    ||  `- Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Daud Deden
    |`- Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Daud Deden
    `* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"wugi
     +* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual;Christian Weisgerber
     |+* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?Ruud Harmsen
     ||`- Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?Ruud Harmsen
     |`* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"wugi
     | `* Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual;Christian Weisgerber
     |  `- Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"wugi
     `- Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"Daud Deden

1
What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
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<eom>

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Mon, 29 Nov 2021 06:42 UTC

On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:53:29 AM UTC-5, S K wrote:
> <eom>

Plausibly derived from
*Xyua-/Njua- thru
as in xyua.mbuatl ~ thru.mesh

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

<so29l3$1ovq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: me...@privacy.net (Tim Lang)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 11:22:28 +0100
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 by: Tim Lang - Mon, 29 Nov 2021 10:22 UTC

On 29.11.2021 07:42, Daud Deden wrote:

>On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:53:29 AM UTC-5, S K wrote:
>
>><eom>
>
>Plausibly derived from
>*Xyua-/Njua- thru
>as in xyua.mbuatl ~ thru.mesh

AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
the Romance ones. Cf.:

константа
конституция
консул
конвенция
коллекция
коллектив(ный)
коммуникация
контур
кооперация
кооператив
кооперировать
кооперироваться
кооперативный магазин
комиссар
комплементарный
композиция
конклав ('papal conclave'; < a room; Lat. con clave "with (a) key")
компаунд (via English)
конъюнктив
комбинация
комбинирование
комбинат ('factory, plant')
комбайн (via English 'to combine')
комбинезон (via French 'combinaison')
конфигурация
коммуна
коммунизм
коммунист
консервы
консервативный
консеквентность

Tim

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

<so5f1c$1j6f$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: wug...@scrlt.com (wugi)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 16:12:44 +0100
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 by: wugi - Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:12 UTC

Op 29-11-2021 om 11:22 schreef Tim Lang:
> On 29.11.2021 07:42, Daud Deden wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:53:29 AM UTC-5, S K wrote:
> >
>>> <eom>
>>
>> Plausibly derived from
>> *Xyua-/Njua- thru
>> as in xyua.mbuatl ~ thru.mesh
>
> AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> the Romance ones. Cf.:
>
> константа
> конституция
> консул
> конвенция
> коллекция
> коллектив(ный)
> коммуникация
> контур
> кооперация
> кооператив
> кооперировать
> кооперироваться
> кооперативный магазин
> комиссар
> комплементарный
> композиция
> конклав ('papal conclave'; < a room; Lat. con clave "with (a) key")
> компаунд (via English)
> конъюнктив
> комбинация
> комбинирование
> комбинат ('factory, plant')
> комбайн (via English 'to combine')
> комбинезон (via French 'combinaison')
> конфигурация
> коммуна
> коммунизм
> коммунист
> консервы
> консервативный
> консеквентность

And corrective correlation.

And related to germanic ge-
https://www.quora.com/Germanic-languages-like-German-and-Dutch-use-the-prefix-ge-a-lot-Why-does-English-also-being-West-Germanic-not-use-it-at-all-Did-it-ever-use-it-in-the-past/answer/Guido-Wuyts

And salaam aleikum of course, peace "with" ye :O)

--
guido wugi

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:52 UTC

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, wugi wrote:
> Op 29-11-2021 om 11:22 schreef Tim Lang:
> > On 29.11.2021 07:42, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> >> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:53:29 AM UTC-5, S K wrote:
> > >
> >>> <eom>
> >>
> >> Plausibly derived from
> >> *Xyua-/Njua- thru
> >> as in xyua.mbuatl ~ thru.mesh
> >
> > AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> > Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> > like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> > used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> > the Romance ones. Cf.:
> >
> > константа
> > конституция
> > консул
> > конвенция
> > коллекция
> > коллектив(ный)
> > коммуникация
> > контур
> > кооперация
> > кооператив
> > кооперировать
> > кооперироваться
> > кооперативный магазин
> > комиссар
> > комплементарный
> > композиция
> > конклав ('papal conclave'; < a room; Lat. con clave "with (a) key")
> > компаунд (via English)
> > конъюнктив
> > комбинация
> > комбинирование
> > комбинат ('factory, plant')
> > комбайн (via English 'to combine')
> > комбинезон (via French 'combinaison')
> > конфигурация
> > коммуна
> > коммунизм
> > коммунист
> > консервы
> > консервативный
> > консеквентность
> And corrective correlation.
>
> And related to germanic ge-
> https://www.quora.com/Germanic-languages-like-German-and-Dutch-use-the-prefix-ge-a-lot-Why-does-English-also-being-West-Germanic-not-use-it-at-all-Did-it-ever-use-it-in-the-past/answer/Guido-Wuyts
>
> And salaam aleikum of course, peace "with" ye :O)
>
> --
> guido wugi
Thanks, very enlightening!
Another answer at Quora, by DW:
"I believe the ge- was pronounced with a soft g, like ye-, in Old English, unlike in German. By the time you get to Middle English it was spelled y- or i- —that Old English geweox is the past of geweaxen, which became Middle English iwaxen, which turned into archaic Modern English wax in the sense of “to grow” (cognate with German wachsen)."
-
I think the ge- was variably pronounced per region as hard G and soft G and e or a. I don't think it all began from ga-, as one writer there noted, but as xyua-.
You note the Arabic -kum.
In Malay, jumpa = meet, jambu = attract(ive), sampai = reach (agreement), jom = let's (do together), along with the Arabic phrase.
DD

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual;
common" etc. ?
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 19:58:53 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Tue, 30 Nov 2021 19:58 UTC

On 2021-11-30, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:

>> AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
>> Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
>> like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
>> used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
>> the Romance ones. Cf.:
>
> And corrective correlation.

And cognate with Slavic "s".

> And related to germanic ge-

How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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From: me...@privacy.net (Tim Lang)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 23:17:20 +0100
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 by: Tim Lang - Tue, 30 Nov 2021 22:17 UTC

On 30.11.2021 20:58, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

>On 2021-11-30, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:
>
>>>AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
>>>Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
>>>like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
>>>used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
>>>the Romance ones. Cf.:
>>
>>And corrective correlation.
>
>And cognate with Slavic "s".
>
>>And related to germanic ge-
>
>How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?

Some of the collective Ge- constructions seemingly fit the
Romance cum-, con-, co- derivations:

Gevatter vs. compadre
gemein(sam) vs. commun-
Gemeinwohl vs. commonwealth
Gemeinsamkeit "which some have in ... common"
& al.

BTW, in most cases, gemeinsam means "together"/"ensemble".

(In Southern dialects also said & written as g- without -e-,
e.g. gscheit, Gscheidle, Gfrett, Gfrast, Gfrieß, Gmoa/Gmoi
(= Gemeinde "commune & community").)

*

OTOH, as for the pronunciation of gV, i.e. the semivowel y
transformation of g, it is also typical of northern German dialects
(within 'Low German' i.e. Niederdeutsch, Niedersächsisch) or in standard
High German slightly influenced in their pronunciation by them (e.g.
in Berlin and Cologne).

e.g. /g/ > /j/:

jenuch (genug cf. Engl. enough), jestern (gestern), janz (ganz),
Jurke (Gurke), juten Tach (guten Tag), morjen/moin (morgen)
as well as 'hypercorrect' words such as gezz for High German jetzt,
that Northerners might interprete as being "Low German,"
and thus have to be "corrected" (which is of course an error :)).

As well as in Georg ("George"): Northern Gorch and Southern Girg(l),
Schorsch and Götz vs. Jörg/en/s, Jürg/en/s, Johrens, Jorissen,
Orje. Simil. in August, Gustav vs. (pronunciation) Justav/Justaf, fem.
Auguste vs. (Au)Juste. Etc. In the seventies, as it was discovered
that an assistant to the then chancelor of W-Germany was an eastern
spy, Guillaume (of old French extraction), people e.g. from Rhineland
(in the regions of the lower Rhine) typically misspronounced that
French name: Juliom (Yuliom). But as soon as a "limit" to the South at
least for Middle German dialects is passed, the G > J /j/ transformation
vanishes, G remaining /g/. High & South German Garn and gähn for English
(ie., a "low German" dialect ;-)) yarn & jawn.

Tim

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Thu, 2 Dec 2021 23:44 UTC

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:17:22 PM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 30.11.2021 20:58, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
> >On 2021-11-30, wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> >>>Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> >>>like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> >>>used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> >>>the Romance ones. Cf.:
> >>
> >>And corrective correlation.
> >
> >And cognate with Slavic "s".
> >
> >>And related to germanic ge-
> >
> >How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
> Some of the collective Ge- constructions seemingly fit the
> Romance cum-, con-, co- derivations:
>
> Gevatter vs. compadre
> gemein(sam) vs. commun-
> Gemeinwohl vs. commonwealth
> Gemeinsamkeit "which some have in ... common"
> & al.
>
> BTW, in most cases, gemeinsam means "together"/"ensemble".
>
> (In Southern dialects also said & written as g- without -e-,
> e.g. gscheit, Gscheidle, Gfrett, Gfrast, Gfrieß, Gmoa/Gmoi
> (= Gemeinde "commune & community").)
>
> *
>
> OTOH, as for the pronunciation of gV, i.e. the semivowel y
> transformation of g, it is also typical of northern German dialects
> (within 'Low German' i.e. Niederdeutsch, Niedersächsisch) or in standard
> High German slightly influenced in their pronunciation by them (e.g.
> in Berlin and Cologne).
>
> e.g. /g/ > /j/:
>
> jenuch (genug cf. Engl. enough), jestern (gestern), janz (ganz),
> Jurke (Gurke), juten Tach (guten Tag), morjen/moin (morgen)
> as well as 'hypercorrect' words such as gezz for High German jetzt,
> that Northerners might interprete as being "Low German,"
> and thus have to be "corrected" (which is of course an error :)).
>
> As well as in Georg ("George"): Northern Gorch and Southern Girg(l),
> Schorsch and Götz vs. Jörg/en/s, Jürg/en/s, Johrens, Jorissen,
> Orje. Simil. in August, Gustav vs. (pronunciation) Justav/Justaf, fem.
> Auguste vs. (Au)Juste. Etc. In the seventies, as it was discovered
> that an assistant to the then chancelor of W-Germany was an eastern
> spy, Guillaume (of old French extraction), people e.g. from Rhineland
> (in the regions of the lower Rhine) typically misspronounced that
> French name: Juliom (Yuliom). But as soon as a "limit" to the South at
> least for Middle German dialects is passed, the G > J /j/ transformation
> vanishes, G remaining /g/. High & South German Garn and gähn for English
> (ie., a "low German" dialect ;-)) yarn & jawn.
>
> Tim
- Thus Ge-rmany (soft G) means com-mun-(it)y?

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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From: me...@privacy.net (Tim Lang)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2021 01:52:26 +0100
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 by: Tim Lang - Fri, 3 Dec 2021 00:52 UTC

On 03.12.2021 00:44, Daud Deden wrote:

>Thus Ge-rmany (soft G) means com-mun-(it)y?

Germany, German, Germanic aren't German words.
They are Latin, based on germanus, germana,
germanum as well as on germen. So, ge- in
Germany is not the one in the German words
gemein, gemeinsam, Gemeinwohl, nor in the
German collective nouns that are prefixed
with a ge-. (And only such German words
have regional pronunciations ye-.)

Tim

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Fri, 3 Dec 2021 06:07 UTC

On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 7:52:35 PM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 03.12.2021 00:44, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> >Thus Ge-rmany (soft G) means com-mun-(it)y?
> Germany, German, Germanic aren't German words.
> They are Latin, based on germanus, germana,
> germanum as well as on germen. So, ge- in
> Germany is not the one in the German words
> gemein, gemeinsam, Gemeinwohl, nor in the
> German collective nouns that are prefixed
> with a ge-. (And only such German words
> have regional pronunciations ye-.)
>
> Tim
Thanks. I was playing a bit, not really expecting Ge-rman to be more than coincidental. But I see german (g not capitalized) is a word unfamiliar to me, related to germ and gene. That brings me back to ge-main etc. Because the ge- in gene is the *xyua- in both 'through' and in 'with' regarding regeneration, 'through birth canal' and 'with child'.

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Fri, 3 Dec 2021 06:09 UTC

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 1:07:26 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 7:52:35 PM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > On 03.12.2021 00:44, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > >Thus Ge-rmany (soft G) means com-mun-(it)y?
> > Germany, German, Germanic aren't German words.
> > They are Latin, based on germanus, germana,
> > germanum as well as on germen. So, ge- in
> > Germany is not the one in the German words
> > gemein, gemeinsam, Gemeinwohl, nor in the
> > German collective nouns that are prefixed
> > with a ge-. (And only such German words
> > have regional pronunciations ye-.)
> >
> > Tim

Thanks. I was playing a bit, not really expecting Ge-rman to be more than coincidental. But I see german (g not capitalized) is a word unfamiliar to me, related to germ and gene. That brings me back to ge-main etc. Because the ge- in gene is the *xyua- in both 'through' and in 'with' regarding regeneration, 'through birth canal' and 'with child'.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/*gene-#etymonline_v_52600

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?
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 by: Daud Deden - Wed, 15 Dec 2021 19:23 UTC

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 7:52:36 AM UTC-8, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, wugi wrote:
> > Op 29-11-2021 om 11:22 schreef Tim Lang:
> > > On 29.11.2021 07:42, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:53:29 AM UTC-5, S K wrote:
> > > >
> > >>> <eom>
> > >>
> > >> Plausibly derived from
> > >> *Xyua-/Njua- thru
> > >> as in xyua.mbuatl ~ thru.mesh
> > >
> > > AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> > > Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> > > like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> > > used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> > > the Romance ones. Cf.:
> > >
> > > константа
> > > конституция
> > > консул
> > > конвенция
> > > коллекция
> > > коллектив(ный)
> > > коммуникация
> > > контур
> > > кооперация
> > > кооператив
> > > кооперировать
> > > кооперироваться
> > > кооперативный магазин
> > > комиссар
> > > комплементарный
> > > композиция
> > > конклав ('papal conclave'; < a room; Lat. con clave "with (a) key")
> > > компаунд (via English)
> > > конъюнктив
> > > комбинация
> > > комбинирование
> > > комбинат ('factory, plant')
> > > комбайн (via English 'to combine')
> > > комбинезон (via French 'combinaison')
> > > конфигурация
> > > коммуна
> > > коммунизм
> > > коммунист
> > > консервы
> > > консервативный
> > > консеквентность
> > And corrective correlation.
> >
> > And related to germanic ge-
> > https://www.quora.com/Germanic-languages-like-German-and-Dutch-use-the-prefix-ge-a-lot-Why-does-English-also-being-West-Germanic-not-use-it-at-all-Did-it-ever-use-it-in-the-past/answer/Guido-Wuyts
> >
> > And salaam aleikum of course, peace "with" ye :O)
> >
> > --
> > guido wugi
> Thanks, very enlightening!
>
> Another answer at Quora, by DW:
> "I believe the ge- was pronounced with a soft g, like ye-, in Old English, unlike in German. By the time you get to Middle English it was spelled y- or i- —that Old English geweox is the past of geweaxen, which became Middle English iwaxen, which turned into archaic Modern English wax in the sense of “to grow” (cognate with German wachsen)."
> -
> I think the ge- was variably pronounced per region as hard G and soft G and e or a. I don't think it all began from ga-, as one writer there noted, but as xyua-.
>
> You note the Arabic -kum.
>
> In Malay, jumpa = meet, jambu = attract(ive), sampai = reach (agreement), jom = let's (do together), along with the Arabic phrase.
>
> DD
Also the Hebrew -chem and the Indonesian kem- (kembali: return, repeat) are probable links, though not the Kannada kembali: paint with pigment.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kembali
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kembali

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:58 UTC

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 2:23:43 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 7:52:36 AM UTC-8, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, wugi wrote:
> > > Op 29-11-2021 om 11:22 schreef Tim Lang:
> > > > On 29.11.2021 07:42, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:53:29 AM UTC-5, S K wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >>> <eom>
> > > >>
> > > >> Plausibly derived from
> > > >> *Xyua-/Njua- thru
> > > >> as in xyua.mbuatl ~ thru.mesh
> > > >
> > > > AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> > > > Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> > > > like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> > > > used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> > > > the Romance ones. Cf.:
> > > >
> > > > константа
> > > > конституция
> > > > консул
> > > > конвенция
> > > > коллекция
> > > > коллектив(ный)
> > > > коммуникация
> > > > контур
> > > > кооперация
> > > > кооператив
> > > > кооперировать
> > > > кооперироваться
> > > > кооперативный магазин
> > > > комиссар
> > > > комплементарный
> > > > композиция
> > > > конклав ('papal conclave'; < a room; Lat. con clave "with (a) key")
> > > > компаунд (via English)
> > > > конъюнктив
> > > > комбинация
> > > > комбинирование
> > > > комбинат ('factory, plant')
> > > > комбайн (via English 'to combine')
> > > > комбинезон (via French 'combinaison')
> > > > конфигурация
> > > > коммуна
> > > > коммунизм
> > > > коммунист
> > > > консервы
> > > > консервативный
> > > > консеквентность
> > > And corrective correlation.
> > >
> > > And related to germanic ge-
> > > https://www.quora.com/Germanic-languages-like-German-and-Dutch-use-the-prefix-ge-a-lot-Why-does-English-also-being-West-Germanic-not-use-it-at-all-Did-it-ever-use-it-in-the-past/answer/Guido-Wuyts
> > >
> > > And salaam aleikum of course, peace "with" ye :O)
> > >
> > > --
> > > guido wugi
> > Thanks, very enlightening!
> >
> > Another answer at Quora, by DW:
> > "I believe the ge- was pronounced with a soft g, like ye-, in Old English, unlike in German. By the time you get to Middle English it was spelled y- or i- —that Old English geweox is the past of geweaxen, which became Middle English iwaxen, which turned into archaic Modern English wax in the sense of “to grow” (cognate with German wachsen)."
> > -
> > I think the ge- was variably pronounced per region as hard G and soft G and e or a. I don't think it all began from ga-, as one writer there noted, but as xyua-.
> >
> > You note the Arabic -kum.
> >
> > In Malay, jumpa = meet, jambu = attract(ive), sampai = reach (agreement), jom = let's (do together), along with the Arabic phrase.
> >
> > DD
> Also the Hebrew -chem and the Indonesian kem- (kembali: return, repeat) are probable links, though not the Kannada kembali: paint with pigment.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kembali
> https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kembali

A possible link?

Xam@Persian: raw (as in unprocessed, pre-sieved?)

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=53003#comments

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Sat, 18 Dec 2021 11:38 UTC

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 2:23:43 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 7:52:36 AM UTC-8, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 10:12:46 AM UTC-5, wugi wrote:
> > > Op 29-11-2021 om 11:22 schreef Tim Lang:
> > > > On 29.11.2021 07:42, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:53:29 AM UTC-5, S K wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >>> <eom>
> > > >>
> > > >> Plausibly derived from
> > > >> *Xyua-/Njua- thru
> > > >> as in xyua.mbuatl ~ thru.mesh
> > > >
> > > > AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> > > > Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> > > > like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> > > > used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> > > > the Romance ones. Cf.:
> > > >
> > > > константа
> > > > конституция
> > > > консул
> > > > конвенция
> > > > коллекция
> > > > коллектив(ный)
> > > > коммуникация
> > > > контур
> > > > кооперация
> > > > кооператив
> > > > кооперировать
> > > > кооперироваться
> > > > кооперативный магазин
> > > > комиссар
> > > > комплементарный
> > > > композиция
> > > > конклав ('papal conclave'; < a room; Lat. con clave "with (a) key")
> > > > компаунд (via English)
> > > > конъюнктив
> > > > комбинация
> > > > комбинирование
> > > > комбинат ('factory, plant')
> > > > комбайн (via English 'to combine')
> > > > комбинезон (via French 'combinaison')
> > > > конфигурация
> > > > коммуна
> > > > коммунизм
> > > > коммунист
> > > > консервы
> > > > консервативный
> > > > консеквентность
> > > And corrective correlation.
> > >
> > > And related to germanic ge-
> > > https://www.quora.com/Germanic-languages-like-German-and-Dutch-use-the-prefix-ge-a-lot-Why-does-English-also-being-West-Germanic-not-use-it-at-all-Did-it-ever-use-it-in-the-past/answer/Guido-Wuyts
> > >
> > > And salaam aleikum of course, peace "with" ye :O)
> > >
> > > --
> > > guido wugi
> > Thanks, very enlightening!
> >
> > Another answer at Quora, by DW:
> > "I believe the ge- was pronounced with a soft g, like ye-, in Old English, unlike in German. By the time you get to Middle English it was spelled y- or i- —that Old English geweox is the past of geweaxen, which became Middle English iwaxen, which turned into archaic Modern English wax in the sense of “to grow” (cognate with German wachsen)."
> > -
> > I think the ge- was variably pronounced per region as hard G and soft G and e or a. I don't think it all began from ga-, as one writer there noted, but as xyua-.
> >
> > You note the Arabic -kum.
> >
> > In Malay, jumpa = meet, jambu = attract(ive), sampai = reach (agreement), jom = let's (do together), along with the Arabic phrase.
> >
> > DD
> Also the Hebrew -chem and the Indonesian kem- (kembali: return, repeat) are probable links, though not the Kannada kembali: paint with pigment.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kembali
> https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kembali

Here's another possible link to kembali@Kannada: ochre pigment, QUORA

of the north European soil was for a long time a SWAMPY PLACE.

To my knowledge even the etimology of the russian MOSKVA = MOSKOW comes from an indo-european word which means SWAMP.

That indo european word is related to romanian word MÂZGĂ = sticky mud and romanian verb a MÂZGĂLI = TO PAINT /TO DRAW WITH WET DIRTH…MUD.

But romanian a MÂZGĂLI is also related to italian word MASCARA = TO PAINT YOUR FACE aka MAKE UP (see also french MACHILAGE = MAKEUP) from which comes the modern word that we all use today…especially TODAY aka the word MASK…so I think there is no coincidence between the word MASK and MASK+VA = MOSCOW
- Balinese dancers wore masks to portray epic Hindi characters.

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Thu, 30 Dec 2021 00:35 UTC

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:17:22 PM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 30.11.2021 20:58, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>
> >On 2021-11-30, wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> >>>Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> >>>like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> >>>used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> >>>the Romance ones. Cf.:
> >>
> >>And corrective correlation.
> >
> >And cognate with Slavic "s".
> >
> >>And related to germanic ge-
> >
> >How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
> Some of the collective Ge- constructions seemingly fit the
> Romance cum-, con-, co- derivations:
>
> Gevatter vs. compadre
> gemein(sam) vs. commun-
> Gemeinwohl vs. commonwealth
> Gemeinsamkeit "which some have in ... common"
> & al.
>
> BTW, in most cases, gemeinsam means "together"/"ensemble".
>
> (In Southern dialects also said & written as g- without -e-,
> e.g. gscheit, Gscheidle, Gfrett, Gfrast, Gfrieß, Gmoa/Gmoi
> (= Gemeinde "commune & community").)

Geheime = concealment, hidden
shielded (together)

> *
>
> OTOH, as for the pronunciation of gV, i.e. the semivowel y
> transformation of g, it is also typical of northern German dialects
> (within 'Low German' i.e. Niederdeutsch, Niedersächsisch) or in standard
> High German slightly influenced in their pronunciation by them (e.g.
> in Berlin and Cologne).
>
> e.g. /g/ > /j/:
>
> jenuch (genug cf. Engl. enough), jestern (gestern), janz (ganz),
> Jurke (Gurke), juten Tach (guten Tag), morjen/moin (morgen)
> as well as 'hypercorrect' words such as gezz for High German jetzt,
> that Northerners might interprete as being "Low German,"
> and thus have to be "corrected" (which is of course an error :)).
>
> As well as in Georg ("George"): Northern Gorch and Southern Girg(l),
> Schorsch and Götz vs. Jörg/en/s, Jürg/en/s, Johrens, Jorissen,
> Orje. Simil. in August, Gustav vs. (pronunciation) Justav/Justaf, fem.
> Auguste vs. (Au)Juste. Etc. In the seventies, as it was discovered
> that an assistant to the then chancelor of W-Germany was an eastern
> spy, Guillaume (of old French extraction), people e.g. from Rhineland
> (in the regions of the lower Rhine) typically misspronounced that
> French name: Juliom (Yuliom). But as soon as a "limit" to the South at
> least for Middle German dialects is passed, the G > J /j/ transformation
> vanishes, G remaining /g/. High & South German Garn and gähn for English
> (ie., a "low German" dialect ;-)) yarn & jawn.
>
> Tim

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

<sqpq0u$kkr$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: wug...@scrlt.com (wugi)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 15:55:25 +0100
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 by: wugi - Sat, 1 Jan 2022 14:55 UTC

Op 30-11-2021 om 20:58 schreef Christian Weisgerber:
> On 2021-11-30, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:
>
>>> AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
>>> Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
>>> like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
>>> used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
>>> the Romance ones. Cf.:
>>
>> And corrective correlation.
>
> And cognate with Slavic "s".
>
>> And related to germanic ge-
>
> How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
>

BTW, eg, https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/ge2
see also German Beitrag below there.

in short: anlaut, in continuous speech and unstressed prefix, treated as
inlaut and softened. I suppose germ. h ~ [X], > softened and voiced.

--
guido wugi

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

<slrnst1hr9.45k.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual;
common" etc. ?
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:28:09 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:28 UTC

On 2022-01-01, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:

>>> And related to germanic ge-
>>
>> How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
>
> BTW, eg, https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/ge2

These all agree that the common semantics and parallel formations
support that the Germanic prefix is a cognate, but that the phonology
doesn't match. They then engage in argument by vigorous handwaving:

- It's a special case of "grammatischer Wechsel" (Verner's Law).
- Maybe it was treated as an inlaut in continous speech.
- It must be assumed that the spirant became voiced.
- Most probably there was a special development in weekly accented
position.

> see also German Beitrag below there.

Prokorny doesn't even offer an explanation.

> in short: anlaut, in continuous speech and unstressed prefix, treated as
> inlaut and softened. I suppose germ. h ~ [X], > softened and voiced.

It has to be treated as an irregular development.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sun, 2 Jan 2022 08:20 UTC

Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:28:09 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber
<naddy@mips.inka.de> scribeva:

>On 2022-01-01, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:
>
>>>> And related to germanic ge-
>>>
>>> How does that work? How do you go from PIE *?- to PGmc *g-?
>>
>> BTW, eg, https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/ge2

There I read:
"Inheems Germaans voorvoegsel, wrsch. met oorspr. betekenis ‘met,
samen’."

Noteworthy fact: it has that meaning in Esperanto! Patro = father,
patrino = mother, gepatroj = parents.

Perhaps this is in fact the etymology of the Esperanto prefix? One of
the languages that Ludwig Zamenhof was familiar with from an early age
was Yiddish.

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2022 09:24:22 +0100
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sun, 2 Jan 2022 08:24 UTC

Sun, 02 Jan 2022 09:20:47 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com>
scribeva:

>Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:28:09 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber
><naddy@mips.inka.de> scribeva:
>
>>On 2022-01-01, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> And related to germanic ge-
>>>>
>>>> How does that work? How do you go from PIE *?- to PGmc *g-?
>>>
>>> BTW, eg, https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/ge2

Nice word, "klankwettig". Klank = sound, wet = law, so klankwettig =
according to the sound laws.

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

<sqrtlu$1024$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: wug...@scrlt.com (wugi)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 11:10:05 +0100
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 by: wugi - Sun, 2 Jan 2022 10:10 UTC

Op 1-1-2022 om 22:28 schreef Christian Weisgerber:
> On 2022-01-01, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:
>
>>>> And related to germanic ge-
>>>
>>> How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
>>
>> BTW, eg, https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/ge2
>
> These all agree that the common semantics and parallel formations
> support that the Germanic prefix is a cognate, but that the phonology
> doesn't match. They then engage in argument by vigorous handwaving:
>
> - It's a special case of "grammatischer Wechsel" (Verner's Law).
> - Maybe it was treated as an inlaut in continous speech.
> - It must be assumed that the spirant became voiced.
> - Most probably there was a special development in weekly accented
> position.
>
>> see also German Beitrag below there.
>
> Prokorny doesn't even offer an explanation.
>
>> in short: anlaut, in continuous speech and unstressed prefix, treated as
>> inlaut and softened. I suppose germ. h ~ [X], > softened and voiced.
>
> It has to be treated as an irregular development.

Well, that ought to be expected of a very frequent non-stressed
particle, oughtn't it?

--
guido wugi

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

<slrnst3a74.mpb.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual;
common" etc. ?
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 13:30:12 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Sun, 2 Jan 2022 13:30 UTC

On 2022-01-02, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:

>>>> How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
>>
>> - It's a special case of "grammatischer Wechsel" (Verner's Law).
>> - Maybe it was treated as an inlaut in continous speech.
>> - It must be assumed that the spirant became voiced.
>> - Most probably there was a special development in weekly accented
>> position.
>>
>> It has to be treated as an irregular development.
>
> Well, that ought to be expected of a very frequent non-stressed
> particle, oughtn't it?

The fact that none of the authors point to a comparable development
for some other PGmc particle makes me suspect that there isn't any.

Voicing of initial þ- in function words in Middle English comes to
mind.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
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 by: Daud Deden - Sun, 2 Jan 2022 15:59 UTC

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 9:55:32 AM UTC-5, wugi wrote:
> Op 30-11-2021 om 20:58 schreef Christian Weisgerber:
> > On 2021-11-30, wugi <wu...@scrlt.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> AFAIK, Latin /cum/ ("with; together; associate/d" & the like).
> >>> Along with archaic /com/ and some rare spelling occurences
> >>> like /quum/ and /quom/. As a prefix /cum-/ and /co(n)-/, also
> >>> used in various European languages, i.e. not only English and
> >>> the Romance ones. Cf.:
> >>
> >> And corrective correlation.
> >
> > And cognate with Slavic "s".
> >
> >> And related to germanic ge-
> >
> > How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
> >
> BTW, eg, https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/ge2
> see also German Beitrag below there.
>
> in short: anlaut, in continuous speech and unstressed prefix, treated as
> inlaut and softened. I suppose germ. h ~ [X], > softened and voiced.
>
> --
> guido wugi

комбинат ('factory, plant')
комбайн (via English 'to combine')
комбинезон (via French 'combinaison')

Combine components into compound assemblages, where individual parts submerge into whole mechanisms/machines.
The first was the domeshield, weaving wicker saplings (joined) together into a dome (network/grid/matrix) frame, then 'submerging'/concealing/covering it with (pinned) broadleaf shingles arround surface shell.
Combine compact manufacture
Umlaut ~ rounded
(H)om(e) dome domus tumuli xyuam
Geheime gemain commun camp.aign co.mp.ound champs

Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common" etc. ?

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Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: What is the origin of prefix "co" meaning "joint; mutual; common"
etc. ?
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 by: wugi - Sun, 2 Jan 2022 21:41 UTC

Op 2-1-2022 om 14:30 schreef Christian Weisgerber:
> On 2022-01-02, wugi <wugi@scrlt.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> How does that work? How do you go from PIE *ḱ- to PGmc *g-?
>>>
>>> - It's a special case of "grammatischer Wechsel" (Verner's Law).
>>> - Maybe it was treated as an inlaut in continous speech.
>>> - It must be assumed that the spirant became voiced.
>>> - Most probably there was a special development in weekly accented
>>> position.
>>>
>>> It has to be treated as an irregular development.
>>
>> Well, that ought to be expected of a very frequent non-stressed
>> particle, oughtn't it?
>
> The fact that none of the authors point to a comparable development
> for some other PGmc particle makes me suspect that there isn't any.
>
> Voicing of initial þ- in function words in Middle English comes to
> mind.

Well, one has to choose between the reasonable similarity of usage and
semantics, and the less reasonable strictness of sound laws, isn't it? ;)

--
guido wugi

1
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