Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
> Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
> one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
> art documentation.
>
> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE

$13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
https://groups.io/g/myolympus
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
> > Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
> > > Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
> > > one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
> > > art documentation.
> > >
> > > https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
> > $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
> > --
> > Alfred Molon
> >
> > Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
> > https://groups.io/g/myolympus
> > https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
> Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.

Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
if the company thinks you'll buy more.
We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.

On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
>>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>>> Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
>>>>> Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
>>>>> one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
>>>>> art documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
>>>> $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
>>>> --
>>>> Alfred Molon
>>>>
>>>> Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
>>>> https://groups.io/g/myolympus
>>>> https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
>>> Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
>> Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
>> if the company thinks you'll buy more.
>> We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.
>
> I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
> I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.

It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
so costly to design, manufacture and manage.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On 2023-04-27 16:17, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
>>>>>> Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
>>>>>>> Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
>>>>>>> one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
>>>>>>> art documentation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
>>>>>> $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Alfred Molon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
>>>>>> https://groups.io/g/myolympus
>>>>>> https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
>>>>> Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
>>>> Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
>>>> if the company thinks you'll buy more.
>>>> We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.
>>>
>>> I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
>>> I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
>> It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
>> so costly to design, manufacture and manage.
>
> Making circuit boards isn't that expensive, the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.

The cost is in designing the kit.
Kitting out the kit.
S/w interfaces (by whatever name) that go with the kit (ie: starter/demo
code.
Making the low run boards. (PCB ordering, costs, card stuffing, testing)
Bits and bobs, packaging, instructions, support, etc.

So all that cost is spread over a small number of dev kit buyers (and
probably at a loss charged to marketing).

(It always sound "easy" until you "do it").

<irrelevancies snipped>

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 21:17:44 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
> > On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
> > >>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
> > >>>> Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
> > >>>>> Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
> > >>>>> one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
> > >>>>> art documentation.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
> > >>>> $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Alfred Molon
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
> > >>>> https://groups.io/g/myolympus
> > >>>> https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
> > >>> Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
> > >> Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
> > >> if the company thinks you'll buy more.
> > >> We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.
> > >
> > > I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
> > > I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
> > It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
> > so costly to design, manufacture and manage.
> Making circuit boards isn't that expensive,

But you have to pay someone to design them, they you have to get a board fabricated and then tested.
Materail costs might be cheap but the rest is where the costs mount.

>the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.

or they can be cheap depending on how many you intended to produce, and taking into account failure rate.

> A university local to me has their own mini-wafer fab. Of course it's not capable of the kind of density
> cutting-edge stuff can do. The price of the machines to make the latest chips was $30M. The price for
> the newest machines for the next-gen CPUs and GPUs is $300M each.

Yes we used to send our chips off to another university for making but even that got to expensive and slow to do.
Now most things are simulated

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 00:30:43 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
> On Friday, 28 April 2023 at 10:06:04 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
> > On Thursday, 27 April 2023 at 21:17:44 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 26 April 2023 at 12:13:32 UTC-4, Alan Browne wrote:
> > > > On 2023-04-25 23:49, RichA wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 05:26:12 UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
> > > > >> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 04:09:17 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
> > > > >>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 12:18:28 UTC-4, Alfred Molon wrote:
> > > > >>>> Am 24.04.2023 um 05:19 schrieb RichA:
> > > > >>>>> Sensor's been floating around since 2018, it could have been a really amazing
> > > > >>>>> one to put in a camera. Lots of applications from microscopy, architecture and
> > > > >>>>> art documentation.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/canon/2511C002/10269344?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Zombie%20SKUs&utm_term=&productid=10269344&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dMsX2iQMScLTHH58OLELObMylNrQMd7n41nJX9AuSt-5iDlUa4ykPRoCX10QAvD_BwE
> > > > >>>> $13,898.40 for the sensor. How much would the camera have cost?
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >>>> Alfred Molon
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Olympus 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras forum at
> > > > >>>> https://groups.io/g/myolympus
> > > > >>>> https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
> > > > >>> Odd. The entire development kit is only $10,000.
> > > > >> Probably to encourage development, sometimes you can get samples for free if your a developer or
> > > > >> if the company thinks you'll buy more.
> > > > >> We as a university can get good discounts on some products, sometimes they give out free samples.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've gotten free samples of Texas Instruments CCDs when they made them, but the kits never cost anywhere near $10k.
> > > > > I think the price is a test to see if you are a serious developer or not. A serious developer can amortize the cost if need be.
> > > > It's partly that, but mainly that dev kits are small in number overall
> > > > so costly to design, manufacture and manage.
> > > Making circuit boards isn't that expensive,
> > But you have to pay someone to design them, they you have to get a board fabricated and then tested.
> > Materail costs might be cheap but the rest is where the costs mount.
> > >the chips cost money, depending on their size and density.
> > or they can be cheap depending on how many you intended to produce, and taking into account failure rate.
> > > A university local to me has their own mini-wafer fab. Of course it's not capable of the kind of density
> > > cutting-edge stuff can do. The price of the machines to make the latest chips was $30M. The price for
> > > the newest machines for the next-gen CPUs and GPUs is $300M each.
> > Yes we used to send our chips off to another university for making but even that got to expensive and slow to do.
> > Now most things are simulated
> Good they can nail down a design that way.

Only in theory they miss so much when not doing anything practical.