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tech / sci.lang / Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

SubjectAuthor
* IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?Dingbat
+* Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?Peter T. Daniels
|`* Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?Dingbat
| `- Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?Ruud Harmsen
`* Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?S K
 +- Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?Dingbat
 `- Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?Dingbat

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IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

<98e922d2-64d7-4d5c-b45f-829494186242n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
From: ranjit_m...@yahoo.com (Dingbat)
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 by: Dingbat - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 06:23 UTC

Subject: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

.... the sound represented by the symbol ɰ̊ is specified as unrounded ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_approximant

The webpage therefore suggests alternative ways to represent a voiceless velar approximant with unspecified rounding.

I ask: Why should the symbol specify degree of rounding when the symbols for velar plosives and approximants don`t?

Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

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Subject: Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:21 UTC

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 1:23:21 AM UTC-5, Dingbat wrote:

> Subject: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
>
> ... the sound represented by the symbol ɰ̊ is specified as unrounded ...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_approximant
>
> The webpage therefore suggests alternative ways to represent a voiceless velar approximant with unspecified rounding.
>
> I ask: Why should the symbol specify degree of rounding when the symbols for velar plosives and approximants don`t?

Does IPA mark "unspecified" anywhere?

It offers diacritics for rounding and for spread.

Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

<615351e8-45be-4ed0-940e-a3cf35914bafn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
From: skpfl...@gmail.com (S K)
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 by: S K - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:11 UTC

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 1:23:21 AM UTC-5, Dingbat wrote:
> Subject: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
>
> ... the sound represented by the symbol ɰ̊ is specified as unrounded ...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_approximant
>
> The webpage therefore suggests alternative ways to represent a voiceless velar approximant with unspecified rounding.
>
> I ask: Why should the symbol specify degree of rounding when the symbols for velar plosives and approximants don`t?

Ah. Ranjit's obsession with linguistic arcana. I looked it up and found this gem from wiki:

Voiced velar approximant

"like making a 'w' sound without the lips touching"

Who but Ranjit can explain how to make the sound "w" WITH the lips touching..

mental illness is a pre-requisite to get involved with linguistics.

Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

<aa8a09c5-b739-430f-8d99-4bd73aebab30n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
From: ranjit_m...@yahoo.com (Dingbat)
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 by: Dingbat - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:36 UTC

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 6:21:39 AM UTC-8, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 1:23:21 AM UTC-5, Dingbat wrote:
>
> > Subject: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
> >
> > ... the sound represented by the symbol ɰ̊ is specified as unrounded ...
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_approximant
> >
> > The webpage therefore suggests alternative ways to represent a voiceless velar approximant with unspecified rounding.
> >
> > I ask: Why should the symbol specify degree of rounding when the symbols for velar plosives and approximants don`t?
> Does IPA mark "unspecified" anywhere?
>
> It offers diacritics for rounding and for spread.

Very well, but as far as I can see, ɰ̊ and ɰ, mean voiceless and voiced velar approximants with unspecified rounding. I don't see why the little circle is above though; IPA's combining diacritic for voiceless appears below, not above, what it devoices. What is the narrow transcription for the English w though. It's always rounded. Is it w̹̹̹̹̹̹̹̹.?*

* Google Groups put the combining rounding diacritic on the right side rather than below the w. Google ought to fix that. It appears correctly in a different app.

Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

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Subject: Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
From: ranjit_m...@yahoo.com (Dingbat)
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 by: Dingbat - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:41 UTC

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 5:11:40 PM UTC-8, S K wrote:
> Voiced velar approximant
>
> "like making a 'w' sound without the lips touching"
>
No, it's like making an English w with the lips further apart, since the English w
does not have the lips touching.
>
> Who but Ranjit can explain how to make the sound "w" WITH the lips touching.
>
Erdoğan can, if I'm right that the ğ sounds like a voiced velar approximant.

Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

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Subject: Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
From: ranjit_m...@yahoo.com (Dingbat)
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 by: Dingbat - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 02:24 UTC

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 5:11:40 PM UTC-8, S K wrote:
> Voiced velar approximant
>
> "like making a 'w' sound without the lips touching"
>
English w doesn't have lips touching. It's like making a w with lips further
apart. Any Turk should be able to illustrate it if I'm right that it's the
articulation' of ğ in Erdoğan.
>
> Who but Ranjit can explain how to make the sound "w" WITH the lips touching.
>
A ridiculous description of the English w but any "Benezualan" should be able to
show how to mispronounce English w that way.
>
> mental illness is a pre-requisite to get involved with linguistics.
>
That makes Sanskrit grammarians, Panini et al, mentally ill for organizing
the sounds of Sanskrit in a fashion similar to an IPA chart and makes
Tamil grammarians similarly ill for organizing the Tamil abugida as
we see it today.

Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: IPA symbol for voiceless velar approximant?
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 8 Dec 2021 08:03 UTC

>> Does IPA mark "unspecified" anywhere?
>>
>> It offers diacritics for rounding and for spread.
>
>Very well, but as far as I can see, ?? and ?, mean voiceless and voiced velar approximants with unspecified rounding. I don't see why the little circle is above though; IPA's combining diacritic for voiceless appears below, not above, what it devoices.

It can appear above and below, just what is most convenient seeing the
symbol it is combined with:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet#Diacritics_and_prosodic_notation

What is the narrow transcription for the English w though. It's always
rounded. Is it w????????.?*

>* Google Groups put the combining rounding diacritic on the right side rather than below the w. Google ought to fix that. It appears correctly in a different app.

It's not Google Groups that does that, but the current font and its
rendering.

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