I have claimed that dogs were first domesticated at Phu Quoc island (Viet Nam, Cambodia) from an island-isolated population of tibetan grey wolves, being used to pull coracles. This new article claims an Asian origin.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> I have claimed that dogs were first domesticated at Phu Quoc island (Viet Nam, Cambodia) from an island-isolated population of tibetan grey wolves, being used to pull coracles. This new article claims an Asian origin.
>
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
>
>

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04824-9
Grey wolf genomic history reveals a dual ancestry of dogs

Abstract
The grey wolf (Canis lupus) was the first species to give rise to a domestic
population, and they remained widespread throughout the last Ice Age
when many other large mammal species went extinct. Little is known,
however, about the history and possible extinction of past wolf populations
or when and where the wolf progenitors of the present-day dog lineage
(Canis familiaris) lived. Here we analysed 72 ancient wolf genomes spanning
the last 100,000 years from Europe, Siberia and North America. We found
that wolf populations were highly connected throughout the Late Pleistocene,
with levels of differentiation an order of magnitude lower than they are
today.
This population connectivity allowed us to detect natural selection across
the
time series, including rapid fixation of mutations in the gene IFT88
40,000–30,000 years ago. We show that dogs are overall more closely related
to ancient wolves from eastern Eurasia than to those from western Eurasia,
suggesting a domestication process in the east. However, we also found that
dogs in the Near East and Africa derive up to half of their ancestry from a
distinct population related to modern southwest Eurasian wolves, reflecting
either an independent domestication process or admixture from local wolves.
None of the analysed ancient wolf genomes is a direct match for either of
these dog ancestries, meaning that the exact progenitor populations remain to
be located.

See also
https://www.science.org/content/article/ancient-wolves-give-clues-origins-dogs

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> I have claimed that dogs were first domesticated at Phu Quoc island (Viet Nam, Cambodia)
> from an island-isolated population of tibetan grey wolves, being used to pull coracles. This
> new article claims an Asian origin.
>
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm

The problem is that DNA doesn't work the way their "Conclusions" are
based on.

I'd argue that dogs were most likely domesticated more than once. I've
even argued that perhaps man created WOLVES as we know them by
domesticating dogs.

See, by drawing off the less aggressive animals, the ones that could
be "Tamed," we left the most aggressive to breed with each other.

The most docile LEFT the pack, the most aggressive STAYED and
interbred...

Of course there's an other argument to be made that man dialed down
the aggression in ALL the wild dogs. That, domesticated animals still
encountered/bred with the wild population, spreading the human
selected DNA into the wild.

AND, I never saw any good work on Rabbis. The disease would have
been spread by human migration, if we had dogs, perhaps cycling our
ancestors through periods with and without the animals...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688436643965894656

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 12:13:56 AM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > I have claimed that dogs were first domesticated at Phu Quoc island (Viet Nam, Cambodia)
> > from an island-isolated population of tibetan grey wolves, being used to pull coracles. This
> > new article claims an Asian origin.
> >
> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
>
> AND, I never saw any good work on Rabbis.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688436643965894656

Thanks for sharing that, jermy.

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

[...]

I would call you retarded but that would no doubt solicit
an angry response from a bevy of Down Syndrome
patients, infuriated by the comparison to the likes of
you.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688436643965894656

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 7:13:10 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 12:13:56 AM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:
> > DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > I have claimed that dogs were first domesticated at Phu Quoc island (Viet Nam, Cambodia)
> > > from an island-isolated population of tibetan grey wolves, being used to pull coracles. This
> > > new article claims an Asian origin.
> > >
> > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
> >
> > AND, I never saw any good work on Rabbis.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- --
> >
> > https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688436643965894656
>

> Thanks for sharing that, jermy.

Op donderdag 30 juni 2022 om 06:13:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm

Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
This gradually led to domestication.

Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 21:11:52 UTC+2 schreef littor...@gmail.com:

> > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm

> Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> This gradually led to domestication.

Aquatic prey incl. ducks.
All dogs are excellent swimmers.

From my book:
Afrika heeft geen wolven. Ik stel me eendenjacht voor met of zonder bootjes, netten of speren, bv. in het rietland van de Marsh Arabs Arab al-Ahwār later, tussen Tigris en Eufraat. Het wild, soms al gewond, vluchtte weg, aan de kant spoedig opgewacht door wolven. Mens en wolf gunden elkaar stilaan een deel van de zoveel rijkere buit. Welpjes grootgebracht op drijvende hutten gingen hun baas beschermen, later ook op het droge: dan was de Out of Africa (~60 ka) eerder een Out of Arabia met tamme ‘waterwolven’? Vergelijkbare samenwerking is ook beschreven in de Rode Zee tussen zaagbaars, jagend in open water, en reuzenmurene, jagend in de spleten van het koraal (Bshary 2006).

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:11:52 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op donderdag 30 juni 2022 om 06:13:56 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
>
>
> > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
>
> Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> This gradually led to domestication.

Wolves do not naturally cooperate with humans. You are fantasizing again. Wake up little mermaid.

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:17:08 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 21:11:52 UTC+2 schreef littor...@gmail.com:
> > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
>
> > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever..
> > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > This gradually led to domestication.
> Aquatic prey incl. ducks.
> All dogs are excellent swimmers.
>
> From my book:
> Afrika heeft geen wolven.

Hunting dogs are pack-hunters like grey wolves.

Ik stel me eendenjacht voor met of zonder bootjes, netten of speren, bv. in het rietland van de Marsh Arabs Arab al-Ahwār later, tussen Tigris en Eufraat.

Coracles still used in Tigris and Euphrates.

Het wild, soms al gewond, vluchtte weg, aan de kant spoedig opgewacht door wolven. Mens en wolf gunden elkaar stilaan een deel van de zoveel rijkere buit. Welpjes grootgebracht op drijvende hutten gingen hun baas beschermen, later ook op het droge: dan was de Out of Africa

Not unless the bitch was kept 'locked' under the domeshield.

(~60 ka) eerder een Out of Arabia met tamme ‘waterwolven’? Vergelijkbare samenwerking is ook beschreven in de Rode Zee tussen zaagbaars, jagend in open water, en reuzenmurene, jagend in de spleten van het koraal (Bshary 2006).

water wolves?? Nonsense.

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> schreef I Envy JTEM:
>
>
> > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
>
> Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> This gradually led to domestication.

My issue isn't due to domestication -- that much is a fact. It's not even as to HOW
domestication occurred, as my position would allow for numerous ways. No, my
issue is how the DNA "evidence" is being misrepresented.

In more than one example of dogs, ancient breeds still exist in appearance but
according to their DNA they are quite modern. Make no mistake here, they are
ancient breeds. We can find depictions of some, mummies of a few and of course
the physical remains of varying states. But, these breeds did exist in ancient and
some even in prehistoric times, they exist now in all appearance but a test of their
DNA says that they're not ancient.

How?

Breeding is very often NOT natural. It's not random. In the case of dogs there really
is "Intelligent Design," a "Creator" guiding "Evolution." So as Europeans arrived in the
Americas or Egypt or anyplace, they brought dogs. They sparked a steady influx of
dog DNA from elsewhere. And that mingled with the local population but even as
they acquired foreign, modern DNA they were still being SELECTED for their ancient
qualities (traits).

In human beings we call this "Regional Continuity." Australia proves it, elevates it
beyond hypothesis, as the LM1 Insert proves beyond a sliver of a doubt that
BILLIONS of humans alive and walking around right now trace their ancestry to
an Eurasian ancestor far older than any "Mitochondrial Eve." but nobody would or
could ever know this if it weren't for that freak mutation moving mtDNA to
Chromosome 11...

So the much-older-than-Out-Of-Africa DNA is for all intents and purposes invisible
to us -- GONE! -- but we know for a fact that the ancestry is there, that the lineage
dates back far further than the INTERPRETATIONS of the DNA tells us... just as in
the case of many dogs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/05/24/doggone-gene-research-leads-to-surprises-for-dog-lovers/1cad66cc-c66d-4a98-a21c-269d657cec4e/

The real model here, for both people and dogs, is a brick house. Over the years
a brick may fail here & there, being replaced. Maybe an entire section could get
replaced due to fire damage or a tree falling. Over centuries every last brick might
find itself replaced, many or most several times, but to the naked eye the house
would appear identical to it's original form. If you found photographs from the
19th century or painting from even earlier the house might not appear to have
ever changed, yet none of the bricks might be original.

Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution

If any of the wood is original it's not a major portion of the ship.

Sails? Ropes?

THAT is how DNA works!

THAT is what we are seeing in the case of dogs.

We're not seeing the first or earliest or whatever, we're seeing the DNA
of the most numerous. Or longest lived breeds. The most resistant
to diseases such as Rabbis or perhaps even the least tasty.

That's what we're seeing.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688504308198735872

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> Wolves do not naturally cooperate with humans.

So you're looking at the present yet think you're looking at the past.

Typical.

Google: Dogs domesticated themselves

Or you could just read any of the commentary over the years, or
even just the comments on the subject directed at you, rather
then chewing cud like you're doing now.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688504308198735872

I Envy JTEM wrote:

> In human beings we call this "Regional Continuity." Australia proves it, elevates it
> beyond hypothesis, as the LM1 Insert proves beyond a sliver of a doubt that
> BILLIONS of humans alive and walking around right now trace their ancestry to
> an Eurasian ancestor far older than any "Mitochondrial Eve."

LM3

Lake Mungo 3.

Googling it just now, there's FAR LESS readily available information on it than there
was in the past. But that's because paleo anthropology is fake. It's not science. And
the insert proves that Out of Africa purity is just plain wrong.

NOTE: The chunk that copied itself over to Chromosome 11, and remains in
billions of humans today, isn't changing. The imaginary "Molecular Clock"
doesn't exist for it.

So that's another PROVEN falsehood, the molecular dating idiocy, and yet the owners
of paleo anthropology insist that it's fact. Still.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/688504308198735872

Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:41:08 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm

> > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > This gradually led to domestication.

> Wolves do not naturally cooperate with humans. You are fantasizing again.

Wake up, little kudu runner.
What don't you understand: gradual??

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:46:07 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:17:08 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 21:11:52 UTC+2 schreef littor...@gmail.com:
> > > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
> >
> > > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> > > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > > This gradually led to domestication.
> > Aquatic prey incl. ducks.
> > All dogs are excellent swimmers.
> >
> > From my book:
> > Afrika heeft geen wolven.
> Hunting dogs are pack-hunters like grey wolves.
> Ik stel me eendenjacht voor met of zonder bootjes, netten of speren, bv. in het rietland van de Marsh Arabs Arab al-Ahwār later, tussen Tigris en Eufraat.
> Coracles still used in Tigris and Euphrates.
> Het wild, soms al gewond, vluchtte weg, aan de kant spoedig opgewacht door wolven. Mens en wolf gunden elkaar stilaan een deel van de zoveel rijkere buit. Welpjes grootgebracht op drijvende hutten gingen hun baas beschermen, later ook op het droge: dan was de Out of Africa
> Not unless the bitch was kept 'locked' under the domeshield.
> (~60 ka) eerder een Out of Arabia met tamme ‘waterwolven’? Vergelijkbare samenwerking is ook beschreven in de Rode Zee tussen zaagbaars, jagend in open water, en reuzenmurene, jagend in de spleten van het koraal (Bshary 2006).
> water wolves?? Nonsense.

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:46:53 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 4:46:07 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 3:17:08 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 21:11:52 UTC+2 schreef littor...@gmail.com:
> > > > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
> > >
> > > > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> > > > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > > > This gradually led to domestication.
> > > Aquatic prey incl. ducks.
> > > All dogs are excellent swimmers.
> > >
> > > From my book:
> > > Afrika heeft geen wolven.
> > Hunting dogs are pack-hunters like grey wolves.
> > Ik stel me eendenjacht voor met of zonder bootjes, netten of speren, bv.. in het rietland van de Marsh Arabs Arab al-Ahwār later, tussen Tigris en Eufraat.
> > Coracles still used in Tigris and Euphrates.

Coracles were pulled by early maned dogs, their manes held in hand while dog paddling across currents, first at Phu Quic island, then expanding to Tigris, Australia dingos, papuan singing dogs, , Kanaan dog across Jordan inland and along coasts, dogsleds.

> > Het wild, soms al gewond, vluchtte weg, aan de kant spoedig opgewacht door wolven. Mens en wolf gunden elkaar stilaan een deel van de zoveel rijkere buit. Welpjes grootgebracht op drijvende hutten gingen hun baas beschermen, later ook op het droge: dan was de Out of Africa
> > Not unless the bitch was kept 'locked' under the domeshield.
> > (~60 ka) eerder een Out of Arabia met tamme ‘waterwolven’? Vergelijkbare samenwerking is ook beschreven in de Rode Zee tussen zaagbaars, jagend in open water, en reuzenmurene, jagend in de spleten van het koraal (Bshary 2006).
> > water wolves?? Nonsense.

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:51:46 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:41:08 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
>
> > > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> > > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > > This gradually led to domestication.
>
> > Wolves do not naturally cooperate with humans. You are fantasizing again.
> Wake up, little kudu runner.

No kudus in rainforest except on Java.

> What don't you understand: gradual??

The idea is wrong, groupers did not domesticate eels nor vv, vultures did not domesticate lions nor vv, gradually. Only humans pen fauna for reproduction.

> > > > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> > > > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > > > This gradually led to domestication.
> > > Wolves do not naturally cooperate with humans. You are fantasizing again.

> > Wake up, little kudu runner.

> No kudus in rainforest except on Java.

> > What don't you understand: gradual??

> The idea is wrong,

:-D
The *only¨ argument of kudu runners...
Grow up.

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 8:28:13 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:51:46 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:41:08 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
> >
> > > > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> > > > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > > > This gradually led to domestication.
> >
> > > Wolves do not naturally cooperate with humans. You are fantasizing again.
> > Wake up, little kudu runner.
> No kudus in rainforest except on Java.
> > What don't you understand: gradual??

> The idea is wrong, groupers did not domesticate eels nor vv, vultures did not domesticate lions nor vv, gradually. Only humans pen fauna for reproduction.

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 8:26:07 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 8:28:13 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 6:51:46 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Op vrijdag 1 juli 2022 om 22:41:08 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/06/220629121135.htm
> > >
> > > > > Later-Pleistocene humans chased aquatic mammals with spears or whatever.
> > > > > At the other side of the river or lake, wolves were waiting, naturally cooperating with humans.
> > > > > This gradually led to domestication.
> > >
> > > > Wolves do not naturally cooperate with humans. You are fantasizing again.
> > > Wake up, little kudu runner.
> > No kudus in rainforest except on Java.
> > > What don't you understand: gradual??
>
> > The idea is wrong, groupers did not domesticate eels nor vv, vultures did not domesticate lions nor vv, gradually. Only humans pen fauna for reproduction.

Question on Quora: Is it possible to build a bond with a Lion or Tiger, and domesticate it to an extent? https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-build-a-bond-with-a-Lion-or-Tiger-and-domesticate-it-to-an-extent?ch=15&oid=37803819&share=20293723&srid=RPhZF&target_type=question