Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

BASIC is the Computer Science equivalent of `Scientific Creationism'.


tech / sci.math / Re: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART I

SubjectAuthor
* Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART IEric Baird
+- Re: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART Imitchr...@gmail.com
`- Re: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART Imitchr...@gmail.com

1
Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART I

<c63b7754-06c6-4b99-8848-e282baca18c4n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=141414&group=sci.math#141414

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.math
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3714:b0:767:f1e6:85ff with SMTP id de20-20020a05620a371400b00767f1e685ffmr14677qkb.2.1689806993813;
Wed, 19 Jul 2023 15:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:188d:b0:3a4:1e93:8988 with SMTP id
bi13-20020a056808188d00b003a41e938988mr7969597oib.10.1689806993395; Wed, 19
Jul 2023 15:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.math
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 15:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=188.31.208.249; posting-account=TQ5p4goAAACwUk5Byrf173e2igqmNbKF
NNTP-Posting-Host: 188.31.208.249
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <c63b7754-06c6-4b99-8848-e282baca18c4n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART I
From: erkde...@gmail.com (Eric Baird)
Injection-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 22:49:53 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4340
 by: Eric Baird - Wed, 19 Jul 2023 22:49 UTC

FYI, this, uploaded about a week ago:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372245510_Principles_of_Gravitomagnetism_I_-_Unavoidability

The paper gives between twenty or thirty arguments for the inescapable existence of velocity-dependent gravitomagnetic (v-gm) effects.

It also points out that special relativity's equations, designed for flat spacetime, can't be used as a foundation for a valid general theory of relativity.

IN THE SR WORLDVIEW:
* Special relativity has a very specific set of Doppler equations (1905 paper) derived from the assumption of flat, undisturbed spacetime.
* If we assume that these relationships are correct, and apply them, they //enforce// flat spacetime in the sense that they make it impossible for there to be intrinsic curvature of the metric as a function of the speed that bodies move through it: no such thing as a velocity-based GM effect.
* Without v-gm, a rotating star can't drag light around with it.
* ... and without v-GM, we can't have a higher-order version of GM for acceleration.

So the SR relationships, on their own, even without any of the interpretational infrastructure normally associated with SR, are sufficient to "prove" that there can be no such thing as gravitomagnetism.

//Snag is//, the general principle of relativity insists that GM effects must be real. Accelerative and rotational GM effects, for all accelerating and rotating masses, have to exist for the principles of relativity of acceleration and rotation to work. Without GM, we cannot have a general principle of relativity, or a general theory of relativity, and with SR, we can't have GM.

The SR equations make a general theory impossible.

So it's a little unfortunate that Einstein tried to build his 1916 general theory on an SR //foundation//, and wrote SR-compliance into the definitions of his theory.

Consequently:
1: If we want to believe that special relativity is truly correct physics, then we must give up forever the idea of having a general theory. SR just isn't extensible to cover moving gravitational objects, at the level of its basic equations. Ad you can't adapt or modify the SR equations without breaking the theory.
2: On the other hand, if we WANT a general theory of relativity (that works), then the price we have to pay is that we must give up special relativity.

SR is inertial physics in flat spacetime.
Under general theory, we cannot have inertia without gravitation/curvature, and the concept of "inertial physics in flat spacetime" becomes paradoxical. Under a GTR, "physics" and "flat spacetime" are mutually exclusive concepts: if a region is flat, then there is no mass present and no mass-physics going on ... if mass-physics IS going on, the region is, pretty much by definition, then not flat.

3. Einstein's 1916 attempt at a general theory, defined as supporting both the general principle AND the SR relationships, is a geometrical impossibility. It just can't be done. The 1916 theory is pathological.

Anyway, enjoy the paper
Eric Baird
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372245510_Principles_of_Gravitomagnetism_I_-_Unavoidability

Re: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART I

<1a267519-fd87-48cb-a2cc-1a67505a6fb9n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=141424&group=sci.math#141424

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.math
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4d46:0:b0:635:8c43:597e with SMTP id m6-20020ad44d46000000b006358c43597emr16005qvm.11.1689817551667;
Wed, 19 Jul 2023 18:45:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:9f07:0:b0:579:f831:f086 with SMTP id
s7-20020a819f07000000b00579f831f086mr44095ywn.8.1689817551388; Wed, 19 Jul
2023 18:45:51 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.math
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 18:45:51 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <c63b7754-06c6-4b99-8848-e282baca18c4n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:58e6:5fd7:4a25:4ccc;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:58e6:5fd7:4a25:4ccc
References: <c63b7754-06c6-4b99-8848-e282baca18c4n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <1a267519-fd87-48cb-a2cc-1a67505a6fb9n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART I
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 01:45:51 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4818
 by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Thu, 20 Jul 2023 01:45 UTC

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 3:49:58 PM UTC-7, Eric Baird wrote:
> FYI, this, uploaded about a week ago:
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372245510_Principles_of_Gravitomagnetism_I_-_Unavoidability
>
> The paper gives between twenty or thirty arguments for the inescapable existence of velocity-dependent gravitomagnetic (v-gm) effects.
>
> It also points out that special relativity's equations, designed for flat spacetime, can't be used as a foundation for a valid general theory of relativity.
>
> IN THE SR WORLDVIEW:
> * Special relativity has a very specific set of Doppler equations (1905 paper) derived from the assumption of flat, undisturbed spacetime.
> * If we assume that these relationships are correct, and apply them, they //enforce// flat spacetime in the sense that they make it impossible for there to be intrinsic curvature of the metric as a function of the speed that bodies move through it: no such thing as a velocity-based GM effect.
> * Without v-gm, a rotating star can't drag light around with it.
> * ... and without v-GM, we can't have a higher-order version of GM for acceleration.
>
> So the SR relationships, on their own, even without any of the interpretational infrastructure normally associated with SR, are sufficient to "prove" that there can be no such thing as gravitomagnetism.
>
> //Snag is//, the general principle of relativity insists that GM effects must be real. Accelerative and rotational GM effects, for all accelerating and rotating masses, have to exist for the principles of relativity of acceleration and rotation to work. Without GM, we cannot have a general principle of relativity, or a general theory of relativity, and with SR, we can't have GM.
>
> The SR equations make a general theory impossible.
>
> So it's a little unfortunate that Einstein tried to build his 1916 general theory on an SR //foundation//, and wrote SR-compliance into the definitions of his theory.
>
> Consequently:
> 1: If we want to believe that special relativity is truly correct physics, then we must give up forever the idea of having a general theory. SR just isn't extensible to cover moving gravitational objects, at the level of its basic equations. Ad you can't adapt or modify the SR equations without breaking the theory.
> 2: On the other hand, if we WANT a general theory of relativity (that works), then the price we have to pay is that we must give up special relativity.
>
> SR is inertial physics in flat spacetime.
> Under general theory, we cannot have inertia without gravitation/curvature, and the concept of "inertial physics in flat spacetime" becomes paradoxical. Under a GTR, "physics" and "flat spacetime" are mutually exclusive concepts: if a region is flat, then there is no mass present and no mass-physics going on ... if mass-physics IS going on, the region is, pretty much by definition, then not flat.
>
> 3. Einstein's 1916 attempt at a general theory, defined as supporting both the general principle AND the SR relationships, is a geometrical impossibility. It just can't be done. The 1916 theory is pathological.
>
> Anyway, enjoy the paper
> Eric Baird
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372245510_Principles_of_Gravitomagnetism_I_-_Unavoidability

The Earth is a rotating macro magnet that has its own gravity.
The Earth gravito-magnetism is in orbit.

Re: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART I

<411220f2-3afc-4f29-810d-52edaa433908n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=141426&group=sci.math#141426

  copy link   Newsgroups: sci.math
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4ae6:0:b0:637:85e2:af1b with SMTP id cp6-20020ad44ae6000000b0063785e2af1bmr90838qvb.0.1689819161948;
Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:220b:b0:3a3:89aa:21c1 with SMTP id
bd11-20020a056808220b00b003a389aa21c1mr685874oib.6.1689819161737; Wed, 19 Jul
2023 19:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.math
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <c63b7754-06c6-4b99-8848-e282baca18c4n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:1c0:c803:ab80:cdf6:67c3:c633:923a;
posting-account=Dg6LkgkAAABl5NRBT4_iFEO1VO77GchW
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:1c0:c803:ab80:cdf6:67c3:c633:923a
References: <c63b7754-06c6-4b99-8848-e282baca18c4n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <411220f2-3afc-4f29-810d-52edaa433908n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Principles of Gravitomagnetism, PART I
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:12:41 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4877
 by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:12 UTC

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 3:49:58 PM UTC-7, Eric Baird wrote:
> FYI, this, uploaded about a week ago:
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372245510_Principles_of_Gravitomagnetism_I_-_Unavoidability
>
> The paper gives between twenty or thirty arguments for the inescapable existence of velocity-dependent gravitomagnetic (v-gm) effects.
>
> It also points out that special relativity's equations, designed for flat spacetime, can't be used as a foundation for a valid general theory of relativity.
>
> IN THE SR WORLDVIEW:
> * Special relativity has a very specific set of Doppler equations (1905 paper) derived from the assumption of flat, undisturbed spacetime.
> * If we assume that these relationships are correct, and apply them, they //enforce// flat spacetime in the sense that they make it impossible for there to be intrinsic curvature of the metric as a function of the speed that bodies move through it: no such thing as a velocity-based GM effect.
> * Without v-gm, a rotating star can't drag light around with it.
> * ... and without v-GM, we can't have a higher-order version of GM for acceleration.
>
> So the SR relationships, on their own, even without any of the interpretational infrastructure normally associated with SR, are sufficient to "prove" that there can be no such thing as gravitomagnetism.
>
> //Snag is//, the general principle of relativity insists that GM effects must be real. Accelerative and rotational GM effects, for all accelerating and rotating masses, have to exist for the principles of relativity of acceleration and rotation to work. Without GM, we cannot have a general principle of relativity, or a general theory of relativity, and with SR, we can't have GM.
>
> The SR equations make a general theory impossible.
>
> So it's a little unfortunate that Einstein tried to build his 1916 general theory on an SR //foundation//, and wrote SR-compliance into the definitions of his theory.
>
> Consequently:
> 1: If we want to believe that special relativity is truly correct physics, then we must give up forever the idea of having a general theory. SR just isn't extensible to cover moving gravitational objects, at the level of its basic equations. Ad you can't adapt or modify the SR equations without breaking the theory.
> 2: On the other hand, if we WANT a general theory of relativity (that works), then the price we have to pay is that we must give up special relativity.
>
> SR is inertial physics in flat spacetime.
> Under general theory, we cannot have inertia without gravitation/curvature, and the concept of "inertial physics in flat spacetime" becomes paradoxical. Under a GTR, "physics" and "flat spacetime" are mutually exclusive concepts: if a region is flat, then there is no mass present and no mass-physics going on ... if mass-physics IS going on, the region is, pretty much by definition, then not flat.
>
> 3. Einstein's 1916 attempt at a general theory, defined as supporting both the general principle AND the SR relationships, is a geometrical impossibility. It just can't be done. The 1916 theory is pathological.
>
> Anyway, enjoy the paper
> Eric Baird
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372245510_Principles_of_Gravitomagnetism_I_-_Unavoidability

GR and SR are common in their basis. They are both based on speed.
Space travel shows time slow by accelerating motion.
Strength of gravity decelerates time.

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor