On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-4, S K wrote:
> the rest of the data:
>
> Proto-IE: *mems-
> Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology
> Meaning: meat, flesh
> Tokharian: B mīsa 'meat, flesh' (Adams 464)
> Old Indian: māṁs-, mās-, māṁsá- n. `flesh, meat'
> Armenian: mis, gen. msoy `Fleisch'
> Old Greek: mē̂niŋks, - iŋgos f. `Haut, Häutchen, bes. Hirnhaut'; mēró-s, pl. mērói̯/mē̂ra m. `der obere fleischige Teil des Schenkels, Schenkelbein'
> Slavic: *mę̄̀so; *mę̄zdrā́
> Baltic: *meñs-ā̂ f.
> Germanic: *mimz-á- n.
> Latin: membrum, -ī n. `Körperglied; Glied, Teil'; membrāna f. `dünne, zarte Haut, Häutchen'
> Celtic: OIr mīr `Bissen'
> Albanian: miš Fleisch

Malay: makan eat, masak cook (what food must always be cooked? Meat.)

On 12/04/2022 5:35 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-4, S K wrote:
>> the rest of the data:
>>
>> Proto-IE: *mems-
>> Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology
>> Meaning: meat, flesh
>> Tokharian: B mīsa 'meat, flesh' (Adams 464)
>> Old Indian: māṁs-, mās-, māṁsá- n. `flesh, meat'
>> Armenian: mis, gen. msoy `Fleisch'
>> Old Greek: mē̂niŋks, - iŋgos f. `Haut, Häutchen, bes. Hirnhaut'; mēró-s, pl. mērói̯/mē̂ra m. `der obere fleischige Teil des Schenkels, Schenkelbein'
>> Slavic: *mę̄̀so; *mę̄zdrā́
>> Baltic: *meñs-ā̂ f.
>> Germanic: *mimz-á- n.
>> Latin: membrum, -ī n. `Körperglied; Glied, Teil'; membrāna f. `dünne, zarte Haut, Häutchen'
>> Celtic: OIr mīr `Bissen'
>> Albanian: miš Fleisch
>
> Malay: makan eat, masak cook (what food must always be cooked? Meat.)

Not a promising resemblance, since the ma-in both words is a prefix. The
roots are -kan < *kaen 'eat' and -sak < *esak 'cooked'.

On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 12/04/2022 5:35 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-4, S K wrote:
> >> the rest of the data:
> >>
> >> Proto-IE: *mems-
> >> Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology
> >> Meaning: meat, flesh
> >> Tokharian: B mīsa 'meat, flesh' (Adams 464)
> >> Old Indian: māṁs-, mās-, māṁsá- n. `flesh, meat'
> >> Armenian: mis, gen. msoy `Fleisch'
> >> Old Greek: mē̂niŋks, - iŋgos f. `Haut, Häutchen, bes. Hirnhaut'; mēró-s, pl. mērói̯/mē̂ra m. `der obere fleischige Teil des Schenkels, Schenkelbein'
> >> Slavic: *mę̄̀so; *mę̄zdrā́
> >> Baltic: *meñs-ā̂ f.
> >> Germanic: *mimz-á- n.
> >> Latin: membrum, -ī n. `Körperglied; Glied, Teil'; membrāna f. `dünne, zarte Haut, Häutchen'
> >> Celtic: OIr mīr `Bissen'
> >> Albanian: miš Fleisch
> >
> > Malay: makan eat, masak cook (what food must always be cooked? Meat.)
> Not a promising resemblance, since the ma-in both words is a prefix. The
> roots are -kan < *kaen 'eat' and -sak < *esak 'cooked'.

Ok, thanks. Ma- meant what? [No link to Chinese ma (4 tones, including mother and mare-horse)?]
Seems to me that it might still be related, depending upon what ma- contributed. Is it the same ma- in mandi (shower)? Or the same prefix as mem- or men- (to do)?

On 12/04/2022 8:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
>> On 12/04/2022 5:35 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-4, S K wrote:
>>>> the rest of the data:
>>>>
>>>> Proto-IE: *mems-
>>>> Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology
>>>> Meaning: meat, flesh
>>>> Tokharian: B mīsa 'meat, flesh' (Adams 464)
>>>> Old Indian: māṁs-, mās-, māṁsá- n. `flesh, meat'
>>>> Armenian: mis, gen. msoy `Fleisch'
>>>> Old Greek: mē̂niŋks, - iŋgos f. `Haut, Häutchen, bes. Hirnhaut'; mēró-s, pl. mērói̯/mē̂ra m. `der obere fleischige Teil des Schenkels, Schenkelbein'
>>>> Slavic: *mę̄̀so; *mę̄zdrā́
>>>> Baltic: *meñs-ā̂ f.
>>>> Germanic: *mimz-á- n.
>>>> Latin: membrum, -ī n. `Körperglied; Glied, Teil'; membrāna f. `dünne, zarte Haut, Häutchen'
>>>> Celtic: OIr mīr `Bissen'
>>>> Albanian: miš Fleisch
>>>
>>> Malay: makan eat, masak cook (what food must always be cooked? Meat.)
>> Not a promising resemblance, since the ma-in both words is a prefix. The
>> roots are -kan < *kaen 'eat' and -sak < *esak 'cooked'.
>
> Ok, thanks. Ma- meant what? [No link to Chinese ma (4 tones, including mother and mare-horse)?]
> Seems to me that it might still be related, depending upon what ma- contributed. Is it the same ma- in mandi (shower)? Or the same prefix as mem- or men- (to do)?

Ma- in masak is clearly the stative prefix. Different from mem-/men-.
*ma-(q)esak is glossed as 'cooked, ripe' [i.e. 'ready to eat']. In my
experience (of Oceanic languages), there is typically a word for
"cooked" which is lexically unrelated to the verbs of cooking and eating.

Makan is less clear. Blust glosses PAN *ma-kaen as 'will eat (?)', based
on a future prefix ma- in a couple of Formosan languages; but his (?)
indicates that it's still puzzling. Nevertheless, hundreds of languages
reflect *kaen without the ma-, so ma- is not part of the 'eat' root. I
don't see any AN root in the "eat"/"cooked" area that looks like *ma.

Mandi 'bathe' is apparently not Austronesian.

On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 5:00:49 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 12/04/2022 8:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> >> On 12/04/2022 5:35 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >>> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-4, S K wrote:
> >>>> the rest of the data:
> >>>>
> >>>> Proto-IE: *mems-
> >>>> Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology
> >>>> Meaning: meat, flesh
> >>>> Tokharian: B mīsa 'meat, flesh' (Adams 464)
> >>>> Old Indian: māṁs-, mās-, māṁsá- n. `flesh, meat'
> >>>> Armenian: mis, gen. msoy `Fleisch'
> >>>> Old Greek: mē̂niŋks, - iŋgos f. `Haut, Häutchen, bes. Hirnhaut'; mēró-s, pl. mērói̯/mē̂ra m. `der obere fleischige Teil des Schenkels, Schenkelbein'
> >>>> Slavic: *mę̄̀so; *mę̄zdrā́
> >>>> Baltic: *meñs-ā̂ f.
> >>>> Germanic: *mimz-á- n.
> >>>> Latin: membrum, -ī n. `Körperglied; Glied, Teil'; membrāna f. `dünne, zarte Haut, Häutchen'
> >>>> Celtic: OIr mīr `Bissen'
> >>>> Albanian: miš Fleisch
> >>>
> >>> Malay: makan eat, masak cook (what food must always be cooked? Meat.)
> >> Not a promising resemblance, since the ma-in both words is a prefix. The
> >> roots are -kan < *kaen 'eat' and -sak < *esak 'cooked'.
> >
> > Ok, thanks. Ma- meant what? [No link to Chinese ma (4 tones, including mother and mare-horse)?]
> > Seems to me that it might still be related, depending upon what ma- contributed. Is it the same ma- in mandi (shower)? Or the same prefix as mem- or men- (to do)?
> Ma- in masak is clearly the stative prefix. Different from mem-/men-.
> *ma-(q)esak is glossed as 'cooked, ripe' [i.e. 'ready to eat']. In my
> experience (of Oceanic languages), there is typically a word for
> "cooked" which is lexically unrelated to the verbs of cooking and eating.

'Prepared' food (for dinner/feast), perhaps.

> Makan is less clear. Blust glosses PAN *ma-kaen as 'will eat (?)', based
> on a future prefix ma- in a couple of Formosan languages; but his (?)
> indicates that it's still puzzling. Nevertheless, hundreds of languages
> reflect *kaen without the ma-, so ma- is not part of the 'eat' root. I
> don't see any AN root in the "eat"/"cooked" area that looks like *ma.

Thanks for checking, I had no knowledge of kaen.

> Mandi 'bathe' is apparently not Austronesian.

Aku akan makan makanan. = I will eat food. (roughly)

On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 8:13:13 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 5:00:49 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On 12/04/2022 8:23 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 1:57:52 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > >> On 12/04/2022 5:35 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > >>> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:46:50 PM UTC-4, S K wrote:
> > >>>> the rest of the data:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Proto-IE: *mems-
> > >>>> Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology
> > >>>> Meaning: meat, flesh
> > >>>> Tokharian: B mīsa 'meat, flesh' (Adams 464)
> > >>>> Old Indian: māṁs-, mās-, māṁsá- n.. `flesh, meat'
> > >>>> Armenian: mis, gen. msoy `Fleisch'
> > >>>> Old Greek: mē̂niŋks, - iŋgos f. `Haut, Häutchen, bes. Hirnhaut'; mēró-s, pl. mērói̯/mē̂ra m. `der obere fleischige Teil des Schenkels, Schenkelbein'
> > >>>> Slavic: *mę̄̀so; *mę̄zdrā́
> > >>>> Baltic: *meñs-ā̂ f.
> > >>>> Germanic: *mimz-á- n.
> > >>>> Latin: membrum, -ī n. `Körperglied; Glied, Teil'; membrāna f. `dünne, zarte Haut, Häutchen'
> > >>>> Celtic: OIr mīr `Bissen'
> > >>>> Albanian: miš Fleisch
> > >>>
> > >>> Malay: makan eat, masak cook (what food must always be cooked? Meat..)
> > >> Not a promising resemblance, since the ma-in both words is a prefix. The
> > >> roots are -kan < *kaen 'eat' and -sak < *esak 'cooked'.
> > >
> > > Ok, thanks. Ma- meant what? [No link to Chinese ma (4 tones, including mother and mare-horse)?]
> > > Seems to me that it might still be related, depending upon what ma- contributed. Is it the same ma- in mandi (shower)? Or the same prefix as mem- or men- (to do)?
> > Ma- in masak is clearly the stative prefix. Different from mem-/men-.
> > *ma-(q)esak is glossed as 'cooked, ripe' [i.e. 'ready to eat']. In my
> > experience (of Oceanic languages), there is typically a word for
> > "cooked" which is lexically unrelated to the verbs of cooking and eating.
> 'Prepared' food (for dinner/feast), perhaps.
> > Makan is less clear. Blust glosses PAN *ma-kaen as 'will eat (?)', based
> > on a future prefix ma- in a couple of Formosan languages; but his (?)
> > indicates that it's still puzzling. Nevertheless, hundreds of languages
> > reflect *kaen without the ma-, so ma- is not part of the 'eat' root. I
> > don't see any AN root in the "eat"/"cooked" area that looks like *ma.
> Thanks for checking, I had no knowledge of kaen.
> > Mandi 'bathe' is apparently not Austronesian.
> Aku akan makan makanan. = I will eat food. (roughly)

Stative vs dynamic verbs, stative prefix

Morphological markers Edit
In some languages, stative and dynamic verbs will use entirely different morphological markers on the verbs themselves. For example, in the Mantauran dialect of Rukai, an indigenous language of Taiwan, the two types of verbs take different prefixes in their finite forms, with dynamic verbs taking o- and stative verbs taking ma-. Thus, the dynamic verb "jump" is o-coroko in the active voice, while the stative verb "love" is ma-ðalamə. This sort of marking is characteristic of other Formosan languages as well.[4]