https://www.science.org/content/article/your-simple-throat-reason-you-don-t-sound-chimp

When it comes to the plumbing required to produce human
speech, less is more. A new study suggests our larynx evolved
to have much simpler vocal anatomy than that of our ancestors.
These simplifications may have allowed our species to produce
stable, even-toned, and comprehensible speech instead of the
rough, warbling vocalizations of other primates.

“It’s a fair conclusion,” says Bart de Boer, a linguist who studies
the evolution of speech at the Free University of Brussels who
wasn’t involved in the work. “Researchers … have been wondering
about the evolution of the vocal folds for a long time.” Yet he and
others say there aren’t enough data yet to prove these
simplifications evolved specifically for speech.

Mammals vocalize by forcing air through their larynges, which
causes folds of tissue to oscillate and produce a wide repertoire
of sounds. In humans, a twin pair of such folds known as the vocal
cords is responsible for creating these sounds. The vocal tracts of
nonhuman primates, meanwhile, hold an additional feature: thin
flaps known as vocal membranes, or vocal lips, often found near
or connected to the vocal folds.

Just what these lips do has long been unclear. “We didn’t really
know the function, and we really didn’t know how widespread
they were,” says William Tecumseh Fitch, an evolutionary biologist
at the University of Vienna who studies why primates sound the
way they do.
....
Deep scans of the larynges of 44 primate species revealed that
every nonhuman primate—from baboons to marmosets to
orangutans—possessed these vocal membranes, the researchers
report today in Science.

The results suggest humans lost our vocal membranes in order to
make our speech more stable and intelligible as the need to
communicate ever more sophisticated information grew, Fitch says.
....
Vocal membranes don’t fossilize, however, so we can’t say when
our species lost them, explains the study’s first author, Takeshi
Nishimura, a primatologist at Kyoto University. Yet if scientists can
one day identify the genes responsible, he says, they might be able
to show if they disappeared, say, only after humans evolved.
....

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm1574
Evolutionary loss of complexity in human vocal anatomy as an adaptation
for speech

Complexity from simplification
Human speech and language are highly complex, consisting of a
large number of sounds. The human phonal apparatus, the larynx,
has acquired the capability to create a wider array of sounds, even
though previous work has revealed many similarities between our
larynx and those in other primates. Looking across a large number
of primates, Nishimura et al. used a combination of anatomical,
phonal, and modeling approaches to characterize sound production
in the larynx (see the Perspective by Gouzoules). They found that
instead of the human larynx having increased complexity, it has
actually simplified relative to other primates, allowing for clearer
sound production with less aural chaos. —SNV

Abstract
Human speech production obeys the same acoustic principles as vocal
production in other animals but has distinctive features: A stable vocal
source is filtered by rapidly changing formant frequencies. To
understand speech evolution, we examined a wide range of primates,
combining observations of phonation with mathematical modeling. We
found that source stability relies upon simplifications in laryngeal
anatomy, specifically the loss of air sacs and vocal membranes. We
conclude that the evolutionary loss of vocal membranes allows human
speech to mostly avoid the spontaneous nonlinear phenomena and
acoustic chaos common in other primate vocalizations. This loss allows
our larynx to produce stable, harmonic-rich phonation, ideally
highlighting formant changes that convey most phonetic information.
Paradoxically, the increased complexity of human spoken language
thus followed simplification of our laryngeal anatomy.

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 11:53:33 PM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> https://www.science.org/content/article/your-simple-throat-reason-you-don-t-sound-chimp
>
> When it comes to the plumbing required to produce human
> speech, less is more. A new study suggests our larynx evolved
> to have much simpler vocal anatomy than that of our ancestors.
> These simplifications may have allowed our species to produce
> stable, even-toned, and comprehensible speech instead of the
> rough, warbling vocalizations of other primates.
>
> “It’s a fair conclusion,” says Bart de Boer, a linguist who studies
> the evolution of speech at the Free University of Brussels who
> wasn’t involved in the work. “Researchers … have been wondering
> about the evolution of the vocal folds for a long time.” Yet he and
> others say there aren’t enough data yet to prove these
> simplifications evolved specifically for speech.
>
> Mammals vocalize by forcing air through their larynges, which
> causes folds of tissue to oscillate and produce a wide repertoire
> of sounds. In humans, a twin pair of such folds known as the vocal
> cords is responsible for creating these sounds. The vocal tracts of
> nonhuman primates, meanwhile, hold an additional feature: thin
> flaps known as vocal membranes, or vocal lips, often found near
> or connected to the vocal folds.
>
> Just what these lips do has long been unclear. “We didn’t really
> know the function, and we really didn’t know how widespread
> they were,” says William Tecumseh Fitch, an evolutionary biologist
> at the University of Vienna who studies why primates sound the
> way they do.
> ...
> Deep scans of the larynges of 44 primate species revealed that
> every nonhuman primate—from baboons to marmosets to
> orangutans—possessed these vocal membranes, the researchers
> report today in Science.
>
> The results suggest humans lost our vocal membranes in order to
> make our speech more stable and intelligible as the need to
> communicate ever more sophisticated information grew, Fitch says.
> ...
> Vocal membranes don’t fossilize, however, so we can’t say when
> our species lost them, explains the study’s first author, Takeshi
> Nishimura, a primatologist at Kyoto University. Yet if scientists can
> one day identify the genes responsible, he says, they might be able
> to show if they disappeared, say, only after humans evolved.
> ...
>
>
> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm1574
> Evolutionary loss of complexity in human vocal anatomy as an adaptation
> for speech
>
> Complexity from simplification
> Human speech and language are highly complex, consisting of a
> large number of sounds. The human phonal apparatus, the larynx,
> has acquired the capability to create a wider array of sounds, even
> though previous work has revealed many similarities between our
> larynx and those in other primates. Looking across a large number
> of primates, Nishimura et al. used a combination of anatomical,
> phonal, and modeling approaches to characterize sound production
> in the larynx (see the Perspective by Gouzoules). They found that
> instead of the human larynx having increased complexity, it has
> actually simplified relative to other primates, allowing for clearer
> sound production with less aural chaos. —SNV
>
> Abstract
> Human speech production obeys the same acoustic principles as vocal
> production in other animals but has distinctive features: A stable vocal
> source is filtered by rapidly changing formant frequencies. To
> understand speech evolution, we examined a wide range of primates,
> combining observations of phonation with mathematical modeling. We
> found that source stability relies upon simplifications in laryngeal
> anatomy, specifically the loss of air sacs and vocal membranes. We
> conclude that the evolutionary loss of vocal membranes allows human
> speech to mostly avoid the spontaneous nonlinear phenomena and
> acoustic chaos common in other primate vocalizations. This loss allows
> our larynx to produce stable, harmonic-rich phonation, ideally
> highlighting formant changes that convey most phonetic information.
> Paradoxically, the increased complexity of human spoken language
> thus followed simplification of our laryngeal anatomy.
- Not sure if I agree with either of these claims, neither mention social sheltering selection, which was critical to human language, charades/physical gestures/grooming being diurnal while speech is also nocturnal-domeshield darkened & cave-darkened, breathyness does not prevent conversation.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25333792-600-how-language-evolved-a-new-idea-suggests-its-all-just-a-game/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2333278-losing-parts-of-our-voice-box-may-have-helped-humans-evolve-to-speak/

somebody:

> ... social sheltering selection, which was critical to human language, charades/physical gestures/grooming being diurnal while speech is also nocturnal-domeshield darkened & cave-darkened, breathyness does not prevent conversation.

:-DDDDD

incredible!

> https://www.science.org/content/article/your-simple-throat-reason-you-don-t-sound-chimp
> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm1574

> Evolutionary loss of complexity in human vocal anatomy as an adaptation
> for speech
> Abstract
> Human speech production obeys the same acoustic principles as vocal
> production in other animals but has distinctive features: A stable vocal
> source is filtered by rapidly changing formant frequencies. To
> understand speech evolution, we examined a wide range of primates,
> combining observations of phonation with mathematical modeling. We
> found that source stability relies upon simplifications in laryngeal
> anatomy, specifically the loss of air sacs and vocal membranes. We
> conclude that the evolutionary loss of vocal membranes allows human
> speech to mostly avoid the spontaneous nonlinear phenomena and
> acoustic chaos common in other primate vocalizations. This loss allows
> our larynx to produce stable, harmonic-rich phonation, ideally
> highlighting formant changes that convey most phonetic information.
> Paradoxically, the increased complexity of human spoken language
> thus followed simplification of our laryngeal anatomy.

Very interesting!
But did we lose these vocal membranes *in order to* make speech more stable+intelligible?
Or for another reason?
Google "Seafood, diving, song and speech".

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> Very interesting!
> But did we lose these vocal membranes *in order to* make speech more stable+intelligible?
> Or for another reason?
> Google "Seafood, diving, song and speech".

That's a very good question, because as our intelligence grew and
cooperation became more important, communication was
destined to grow in complexity. But it didn't have to take the present
form of speech. There's sign language, yes, plus grown and sighs
which are near universal, and let's not forget the clicks that are still
in use by some...

So communication may have been destined but does that require
our present form of speech?

I don't think so.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/692386667024285696

On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 6:02:54 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > https://www.science.org/content/article/your-simple-throat-reason-you-don-t-sound-chimp
> > https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm1574
>
> > Evolutionary loss of complexity in human vocal anatomy as an adaptation
> > for speech
> > Abstract
> > Human speech production obeys the same acoustic principles as vocal
> > production in other animals but has distinctive features: A stable vocal
> > source is filtered by rapidly changing formant frequencies. To
> > understand speech evolution, we examined a wide range of primates,
> > combining observations of phonation with mathematical modeling. We
> > found that source stability relies upon simplifications in laryngeal
> > anatomy, specifically the loss of air sacs and vocal membranes. We
> > conclude that the evolutionary loss of vocal membranes allows human
> > speech to mostly avoid the spontaneous nonlinear phenomena and
> > acoustic chaos common in other primate vocalizations. This loss allows
> > our larynx to produce stable, harmonic-rich phonation, ideally
> > highlighting formant changes that convey most phonetic information.
> > Paradoxically, the increased complexity of human spoken language
> > thus followed simplification of our laryngeal anatomy.
> Very interesting!
> But did we lose these vocal membranes *in order to* make speech more stable+intelligible?

Gibbons share many traits with humans not found in great apes. These vocal membranes may have enlarged in arboreal apes with laryngeal air sacs not found in gibbons & humans. So maybe we did not lose them. Note that both gibbon song and human song is much clearer than other hominoids. Note too that songbirds have clearer more melodious song than both waterfowl and open plains birds. Do weaverbirds & Baltimore orioles which build enclosed arboreal nests have different vocal traits than open-bowl nesting songbirds?

> Or for another reason?
> Google "Seafood, diving, song and speech".

See Gareth Morgan's analysis of human laryngeal tract, principally formed due to upright orthograde posture and locomotion.

Op zaterdag 13 augustus 2022 om 17:11:50 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > https://www.science.org/content/article/your-simple-throat-reason-you-don-t-sound-chimp
> > > https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm1574

> > > Evolutionary loss of complexity in human vocal anatomy as an adaptation for speech
> > > Human speech production obeys the same acoustic principles as vocal
> > > production in other animals but has distinctive features: A stable vocal
> > > source is filtered by rapidly changing formant frequencies. To
> > > understand speech evolution, we examined a wide range of primates,
> > > combining observations of phonation with mathematical modeling. We
> > > found that source stability relies upon simplifications in laryngeal
> > > anatomy, specifically the loss of air sacs and vocal membranes. We
> > > conclude that the evolutionary loss of vocal membranes allows human
> > > speech to mostly avoid the spontaneous nonlinear phenomena and
> > > acoustic chaos common in other primate vocalizations. This loss allows
> > > our larynx to produce stable, harmonic-rich phonation, ideally
> > > highlighting formant changes that convey most phonetic information.
> > > Paradoxically, the increased complexity of human spoken language
> > > thus followed simplification of our laryngeal anatomy.

> > Very interesting! But did we lose these vocal membranes *in order to* make speech more stable+intelligible?

> Gibbons share many traits with humans not found in great apes. These vocal membranes may have enlarged in arboreal apes with laryngeal air sacs not found in gibbons & humans.

Siamangs have large air-sacs AFAIK.

> So maybe we did not lose them. Note that both gibbon song and human song is much clearer than other hominoids. Note too that songbirds have clearer more melodious song than both waterfowl and open plains birds. Do weaverbirds & Baltimore orioles which build enclosed arboreal nests have different vocal traits than open-bowl nesting songbirds?

> > Or for another reason? Google "Seafood, diving, song and speech".

> See Gareth Morgan's analysis of human laryngeal tract, principally formed due to upright orthograde posture and locomotion.

Just-so thinking AFAICS, probably wrong.

Why did we lose our vocal membranes?
- We had developed voluntary breathing at least since early-Pleist.(shallow-diving), this made voluntary sound production possible.
- And/or, more directly, did the loss of voc.membranes allow a better closure of the airways? safer in diving?

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 5:50:54 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zaterdag 13 augustus 2022 om 17:11:50 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > https://www.science.org/content/article/your-simple-throat-reason-you-don-t-sound-chimp
> > > > https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm1574
>
> > > > Evolutionary loss of complexity in human vocal anatomy as an adaptation for speech
> > > > Human speech production obeys the same acoustic principles as vocal
> > > > production in other animals but has distinctive features: A stable vocal
> > > > source is filtered by rapidly changing formant frequencies. To
> > > > understand speech evolution, we examined a wide range of primates,
> > > > combining observations of phonation with mathematical modeling. We
> > > > found that source stability relies upon simplifications in laryngeal
> > > > anatomy, specifically the loss of air sacs and vocal membranes. We
> > > > conclude that the evolutionary loss of vocal membranes allows human
> > > > speech to mostly avoid the spontaneous nonlinear phenomena and
> > > > acoustic chaos common in other primate vocalizations. This loss allows
> > > > our larynx to produce stable, harmonic-rich phonation, ideally
> > > > highlighting formant changes that convey most phonetic information.
> > > > Paradoxically, the increased complexity of human spoken language
> > > > thus followed simplification of our laryngeal anatomy.
>
> > > Very interesting! But did we lose these vocal membranes *in order to* make speech more stable+intelligible?
>
> > Gibbons share many traits with humans not found in great apes. These vocal membranes may have enlarged in arboreal apes with laryngeal air sacs not found in gibbons & humans.
> Siamangs have large air-sacs AFAIK.

And siamangs are much larger than gibbons.
Do gibbons have these membranes?

> > So maybe we did not lose them. Note that both gibbon song and human song is much clearer than other hominoids. Note too that songbirds have clearer more melodious song than both waterfowl and open plains birds. Do weaverbirds & Baltimore orioles which build enclosed arboreal nests have different vocal traits than open-bowl nesting songbirds?
>
> > > Or for another reason? Google "Seafood, diving, song and speech".
>
> > See Gareth Morgan's analysis of human laryngeal tract, principally formed due to upright orthograde posture and locomotion.
> Just-so thinking AFAICS, probably wrong.

Nope.

> Why did we lose our vocal membranes?

Ground-based shelter dwelling - no more advantage to being safely in tree branches seeing ground predators and united warning screams to avert predator and alert group.

> - We had developed voluntary breathing at least since early-Pleist.(shallow-diving), this made voluntary sound production possible.
> - And/or, more directly, did the loss of voc.membranes allow a better closure of the airways? safer in diving?

....

> > Why did we lose our vocal membranes?

> Ground-based shelter dwelling -

:-DDD

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> https://www.science.org/content/article/your-simple-throat-reason-you-don-t-sound-chimp
>> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm1574
>
>> Evolutionary loss of complexity in human vocal anatomy as an adaptation
>> for speech
>> Abstract
>> Human speech production obeys the same acoustic principles as vocal
>> production in other animals but has distinctive features: A stable vocal
>> source is filtered by rapidly changing formant frequencies. To
>> understand speech evolution, we examined a wide range of primates,
>> combining observations of phonation with mathematical modeling. We
>> found that source stability relies upon simplifications in laryngeal
>> anatomy, specifically the loss of air sacs and vocal membranes. We
>> conclude that the evolutionary loss of vocal membranes allows human
>> speech to mostly avoid the spontaneous nonlinear phenomena and
>> acoustic chaos common in other primate vocalizations. This loss allows
>> our larynx to produce stable, harmonic-rich phonation, ideally
>> highlighting formant changes that convey most phonetic information.
>> Paradoxically, the increased complexity of human spoken language
>> thus followed simplification of our laryngeal anatomy.
>
> Very interesting!
> But did we lose these vocal membranes *in order to* make speech more stable+intelligible?
> Or for another reason?

No.
> Google "Seafood, diving, song and speech".
>

Google "we live on land"

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> Google "we live on land"

Another rider of the Short Bus thinking that "Aquatic Ape" is French
for "Sea Monkeys."

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/693572982046588928

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:04:29 PM UTC-4, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
> > Google "we live on land"
> Another rider of the Short Bus thinking that "Aquatic Ape" is French
> for "Sea Monkeys."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/693572982046588928

Landlubber.

JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> Google "we live on land"
>
> Another rider of the Short Bus thinking that "Aquatic Ape" is French
> for "Sea Monkeys."

Looks like your space aliens probed you a little too deeply.

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> > Primum Sapienti wrote:
> >
> >> Google "we live on land"
> >
> > Another rider of the Short Bus thinking that "Aquatic Ape" is French
> > for "Sea Monkeys."

> Looks like your space aliens probed you a little too deeply.

You don't know what an "Argument" is, do you? For example, I can
directly challenge you to explain what you think you're refuting, and
how, and you can't even begin to try. Because you're not refuting
anything. You're not "Arguing" a position. You're just angry and
lashing out.

(Consider that a challenge)

Also: Do the Google on parrots.

Much of evolutionary biology is simply looking at what exists and
then assuming it was an inescapable conclusion. It's a trap that
you should make every effort to avoid.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/696159783196246016