On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > iztitl nail
> > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > Gate: otl
> > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > Azt iztitl nail
> > Basque azkazal nail
> > Azt acatl arrow dart
> >
> > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe

> Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
> in comparisons.

Thanks, I wasn't certain, but I'd thought -tli was a special suffix, not -tl.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:36:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > >
> > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
>
> > Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
> > in comparisons.
> Thanks, I wasn't certain, but I'd thought -tli was a special suffix, not -tl.

Would you say that 'atl' is not water, but "the water"?

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:36:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:

> > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
> > > in comparisons.
> > Thanks, I wasn't certain, but I'd thought -tli was a special suffix, not -tl.

Whether it gets the final vowel depends on what precedes in the word

> Would you say that 'atl' is not water, but "the water"?

_I_ wouldn't say it, but Gordon Whittaker, *Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs*
(2021) p. 48-49, says so. (And it's a long a.)

Unlikely to be related to atla(tl) 'spearthrower'.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 1:29:50 PM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:36:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
> > > > in comparisons.
> > > Thanks, I wasn't certain, but I'd thought -tli was a special suffix, not -tl.
> Whether it gets the final vowel depends on what precedes in the word
> > Would you say that 'atl' is not water, but "the water"?
> _I_ wouldn't say it, but Gordon Whittaker, *Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs*
> (2021) p. 48-49, says so. (And it's a long a.)
>
> Unlikely to be related to atla(tl) 'spearthrower'.

Thanks for the cite. IIRC, Carlos L. told me the -tli suffix had been a historic addition/modification, perhaps related to societal formalization or writing or to European contact.
Water as 'long a' isn't unreasonable imo.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 6:31:39 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 1:29:50 PM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:36:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > > Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
> > > > > in comparisons.
> > > > Thanks, I wasn't certain, but I'd thought -tli was a special suffix, not -tl.
> > Whether it gets the final vowel depends on what precedes in the word
> > > Would you say that 'atl' is not water, but "the water"?
> > _I_ wouldn't say it, but Gordon Whittaker, *Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs*
> > (2021) p. 48-49, says so. (And it's a long a.)
> >
> > Unlikely to be related to atla(tl) 'spearthrower'.
> Thanks for the cite. IIRC, Carlos L. told me the -tli suffix had been a historic addition/modification, perhaps related to societal formalization or writing or to European contact.
> Water as 'long a' isn't unreasonable imo.
-

Arrow

From Middle English arow, arwe, from Old English earh, arewe, arwe, from Proto-Germanic *arhwō, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂érkʷo- (“bow, arrow”). Cognate with Faroese ørv, ørvur (“arrow”), Icelandic ör (“arrow”), örvar (“arrows”), Gothic 𐌰𐍂𐍈𐌰𐌶𐌽𐌰 (arƕazna, “dart”), Latin arquus, arcus (“bow”)

dart (n.)

early 14c., "metal-pointed missile weapon thrown by the hand," from Old French dart "throwing spear, arrow," from Proto-Germanic *darothuz (source also of Old English daroð, Old High German tart "a dart, javelin," Old Norse darraþr "dart"

Note similarity of arhua@Goth, darothuz@PGrm, and atla@Azt.

xyuambu.atla.chya | njambu.angdualua
Open-through/comb-sieve/bore-born-bou.nd.ary

atla + hu{a?}lche + nuqaq + ankule >

nkhu.atlæ ~ hwarhwe ~ *h₂érkʷo- , arche.ry

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 7:39:43 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 6:31:39 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 1:29:50 PM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:36:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > > > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > > > Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
> > > > > > in comparisons.
> > > > > Thanks, I wasn't certain, but I'd thought -tli was a special suffix, not -tl.
> > > Whether it gets the final vowel depends on what precedes in the word
> > > > Would you say that 'atl' is not water, but "the water"?
> > > _I_ wouldn't say it, but Gordon Whittaker, *Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs*
> > > (2021) p. 48-49, says so. (And it's a long a.)
> > >
> > > Unlikely to be related to atla(tl) 'spearthrower'.
> > Thanks for the cite. IIRC, Carlos L. told me the -tli suffix had been a historic addition/modification, perhaps related to societal formalization or writing or to European contact.
> > Water as 'long a' isn't unreasonable imo.
> -
>
> Arrow
>
> From Middle English arow, arwe, from Old English earh, arewe, arwe, from Proto-Germanic *arhwō, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂érkʷo- (“bow, arrow”). Cognate with Faroese ørv, ørvur (“arrow”), Icelandic ör (“arrow”), örvar (“arrows”), Gothic 𐌰𐍂𐍈𐌰𐌶𐌽𐌰 (arƕazna, “dart”), Latin arquus, arcus (“bow”)
>
> dart (n.)
>
> early 14c., "metal-pointed missile weapon thrown by the hand," from Old French dart "throwing spear, arrow," from Proto-Germanic *darothuz (source also of Old English daroð, Old High German tart "a dart, javelin," Old Norse darraþr "dart"
>
> Note similarity of arhua@Goth, darothuz@PGrm, and atla@Azt.
>
> xyuambu.atla.chya | njambu.angdualua
> Open-through/comb-sieve/bore-born-bou.nd.ary
>
> atla + hu{a?}lche + nuqaq + ankule >
>
> nkhu.atlæ ~ hwarhwe ~ *h₂érkʷo- , arche.ry
ndu.la@Mbuti: interior (p.en.etra.te thicket)
(njamb/P)uaNgDuATLuA needle nail atla arrow dart entr mitl izti- izten

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 10:01:33 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:34:54 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:23:18 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 5:47:41 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:30:08 PM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > > > > > On 2022-01-20, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > So Engl. door also has German kinship, basicly Tür/Dür/Döör.
> > > > > > According to Pfeifer, there are two closely related Germanic words,
> > > > > > one giving rise to German "Tür", Dutch "deur", Swedisch "dörr", and
> > > > > > the other one to English "door", German "Tor".
> > > > > > https://www.dwds.de/wb/etymwb/T%C3%BCr
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
> > > > > I wondered about the etymology of gate, also Germanic source.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gate (n.)
> > > > > "opening, entrance," Old English geat (plural geatu) "gate, door, opening, passage, hinged framework barrier," from Proto-Germanic *gatan (source also of Old Norse gat "opening, passage," Old Saxon gat "eye of a needle, hole," Old Frisian gat "hole, opening," Dutch gat "gap, hole, breach," German Gasse "street, lane, alley"), of unknown origin.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suspect related to gather (open arms [gap] get & close/clasp) & aligns with mate/grid-grate/eat-ate, probably term for "doorway"?
> > > > >
> > > > > njambuanGDuaTlua?
> > > > Rather njuambuanGduATluA (thru.borne.hole, woambelle)
> > > > xyuambGATlachya (G insertion atypical, replaced u?, cf generate bereshit)
> > > Aside
> > > Cogenerate cognate cognition gnate gate grate mate date late
> > > mata@Mly: eye, stigmata, , stomata
> > Very interesting link between genus/genesis, (co)gnate, genu (knee) paternal version of generation has son touching father's knee, maternal version has birth.
> > https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/01/si-amun.html
> >
> > "In it I talked about the fact that the word for generation and the word for knee have the same root in many languages. Why?
> > Because of this: The English etymological dictionary says something interesting about the etymology of the word genus: "...could come from Latin genu (knee) from a supposed ancient custom of a father acknowledging paternity of a newborn by placing it on his knee..."
> https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cognatus#Latin
> Kinsman, sibling, co-generate
-

July 7 2007 thread post:

OK sage, would you tell me are the words like Latin prognatus prefixed
> >or not; pro + gnatus?

> There is an English word "prognathous" (or "prognathic")
> [C19: from pro- (before) + Greek gnathos (jaw)]
The Latin word "progantus" is indeed prefixed. The Latin
prefix "pro-" corresponds to the English "for(e)-", the German "vor-",
the Polish "pro-" and "przed-", and the Serbian "pro-" and "pred-".
For more information, see:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE395.html

The "gn" in "prognatus" comes from the PIE stem "gen-", which means
"give birth to, beget. See:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE143.html

As for the Greek-derivous "prognathous", the Greek prefix "pro-" is
cognate with the prefixes listed above, and the stem "gnatho" is
derived from one of two Pie stems "genu-", the first of which means
"knee", and the other of which means "jaw, chin". See:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE145.html
-

Note:
Bungu@*Proto-Australian: riverbend, knee (could fit bent knee and bending jaw)
Bongo@Proto-Bantu: knee
Bukna@Kartvel: squat dance
B:u:Ka@Georgian: bend/t
Birgul@Mingrel: knee
Br@Hbr: give
Beri@Mly: give; bawa: bear/carry
B/\nt'/\@Hbr?: bind
Bnt@Hamitic: bind, kr@Ham-Sem: to bind

https://www.academia.edu/49246886/BASIC_VOCABULARY_GLOBALITY_KARTVELIAN_EPISODES?email_work_card=thumbnail

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM UTC-5, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, daud....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > iztitl nail
> > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > Gate: otl
> > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > Azt iztitl nail
> > Basque azkazal nail
> > Azt acatl arrow dart
> >
> > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> Aztec -tl is 'the'. Not part of the word. Cannot be taken into account
> in comparisons.

Nahua suffixes

Peter, I have not found agreement with your (cite's) claim that -tl means 'the', while -tli might be used in that way. Below has a mention that -tl(i) is a suffix that makes nouns.
The word Nahuatl appears to be an abbreviation/contraction, since "nahuatl" just means clear-pleasant sound.

Nahuatl (English)

Origin & history

Spanish, from Nahuatl nahuatl, nahuatlatolli ("the clear or understandable language"

https://eapolanco.com/nahuatl-lesson-abstract-nouns-the-liztli-and-iztli-suffixes/
-(l)iztli

Nemi – To live.

You can say, ninemi (ni-nemi) I live.

You could also say, tinemi (ti-nemi), you live.

You are not soundly capable of saying nonemi (no-nemi) my live.

This changes when we add the -liztli suffix to nemi. Giving us Nemiliztli, living or life. The savy reader will notice that close connection to the root verb- Nemi, but also that there is now an absolutive suffix on the word, in fact making it a noun.

To the proper nouns, nouns and adjectives that refer to animate or inanimate things is sometimes added tzin or tzintli. This happens in order to denote a noble upbringing, courtesy, or reverence.
   huentli ("offering") → huentzintli ("sacrifice, sacrificial offering")
   tonān ("our mother") → tonāntzin ("our revered mother")
   īyeliz ("his, her, its nature") → īyeliztzin in Dios ("God's nature, godhood")

(added to nouns) A diminutive suffix; forms nouns denoting smallness.
   pilli ("child, youth") → piltzintli ("small child")
   tletl ("fire") → tletzintli ("small fire")

Popocatzin: Popocatzin (Classical Nahuatl) Pronunciation IPA: /popoːkatsin/ Origin & history popōca "to smoke" + -tzin (honorific suffix) Proper noun Popōcatzin

-tl ‎ in

Classical Nahuatl

Eastern Huasteca Nahuatl

-tl (Classical Nahuatl)

Suffix

-tl

Absolutive suffix for noun bases that end with a vowel.

-tl (Eastern Huasteca Nahuatl)

Suffix

-tl

a suffix that makes nouns.

Entries with "-tl"

-ton: …If the stem does not take an absolutive suffix (i.e. -tli and its assimilated forms, -tl and -li), the resulting diminutive does not either, and -tin is omitted in the plural.

-tla

Cf. Classical Nahuatl -tlah‎.

Pronunciation

IPA: [-t͜ɬa]

Suffix

-tla

place containing
-

tlaxilli: tlaxilli (Nahuatl) Origin & history tla- ("something") + ixili ("pierce") + -tli Noun tlaxilli Pierced; stabbed

-tloc (Classical Nahuatl)

Pronunciation

IPA: /t͡ɬoːk/

Suffix

-tlōc

(added to nouns) A locative suffix: near or next to something.
   no- ("1st singular possessive") → notlōc ("near me, next to me")
   tenāmitl ("wall") → tenāntlōc ("near to a wall")

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 10:01:33 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:34:54 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:23:18 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 5:47:41 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:30:08 PM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > > > > > > On 2022-01-20, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > So Engl. door also has German kinship, basicly Tür/Dür/Döör.
> > > > > > > According to Pfeifer, there are two closely related Germanic words,
> > > > > > > one giving rise to German "Tür", Dutch "deur", Swedisch "dörr", and
> > > > > > > the other one to English "door", German "Tor".
> > > > > > > https://www.dwds.de/wb/etymwb/T%C3%BCr
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
> > > > > > I wondered about the etymology of gate, also Germanic source.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gate (n.)
> > > > > > "opening, entrance," Old English geat (plural geatu) "gate, door, opening, passage, hinged framework barrier," from Proto-Germanic *gatan (source also of Old Norse gat "opening, passage," Old Saxon gat "eye of a needle, hole," Old Frisian gat "hole, opening," Dutch gat "gap, hole, breach," German Gasse "street, lane, alley"), of unknown origin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I suspect related to gather (open arms [gap] get & close/clasp) & aligns with mate/grid-grate/eat-ate, probably term for "doorway"?
> > > > > >

Kumpul@Mly: gather, collect, cone (funnel?)

> > > > > > njambuanGDuaTlua?
> > > > > Rather njuambuanGduATluA (thru.borne.hole, woambelle)
> > > > > xyuambGATlachya (G insertion atypical, replaced u?, cf generate bereshit)
> > > > Aside
> > > > Cogenerate cognate cognition gnate gate grate mate date late
> > > > mata@Mly: eye, stigmata, , stomata
> > > Very interesting link between genus/genesis, (co)gnate, genu (knee) paternal version of generation has son touching father's knee, maternal version has birth.
> > > https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/01/si-amun.html
> > >
> > > "In it I talked about the fact that the word for generation and the word for knee have the same root in many languages. Why?
> > > Because of this: The English etymological dictionary says something interesting about the etymology of the word genus: "...could come from Latin genu (knee) from a supposed ancient custom of a father acknowledging paternity of a newborn by placing it on his knee..."
> > https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cognatus#Latin
> > Kinsman, sibling, co-generate
> -
>
> July 7 2007 thread post:
>
> OK sage, would you tell me are the words like Latin prognatus prefixed
> > >or not; pro + gnatus?
>
> > There is an English word "prognathous" (or "prognathic")
> > [C19: from pro- (before) + Greek gnathos (jaw)]
> The Latin word "progantus" is indeed prefixed. The Latin
> prefix "pro-" corresponds to the English "for(e)-", the German "vor-",
> the Polish "pro-" and "przed-", and the Serbian "pro-" and "pred-".
> For more information, see:
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE395.html
>
> The "gn" in "prognatus" comes from the PIE stem "gen-", which means
> "give birth to, beget. See:
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE143.html
>
> As for the Greek-derivous "prognathous", the Greek prefix "pro-" is
> cognate with the prefixes listed above, and the stem "gnatho" is
> derived from one of two Pie stems "genu-", the first of which means
> "knee", and the other of which means "jaw, chin". See:
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE145.html
> -
>
> Note:
> Bungu@*Proto-Australian: riverbend, knee (could fit bent knee and bending jaw)
> Bongo@Proto-Bantu: knee
> Bukna@Kartvel: squat dance
> B:u:Ka@Georgian: bend/t
> Birgul@Mingrel: knee
> Br@Hbr: give
> Beri@Mly: give; bawa: bear/carry
> B/\nt'/\@Hbr?: bind
> Bnt@Hamitic: bind, kr@Ham-Sem: to bind
>
> https://www.academia.edu/49246886/BASIC_VOCABULARY_GLOBALITY_KARTVELIAN_EPISODES?email_work_card=thumbnail

On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 5:13:25 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 10:01:33 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 6:43:18 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:34:54 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:23:18 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 5:47:41 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 4:30:08 PM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 2022-01-20, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > So Engl. door also has German kinship, basicly Tür/Dür/Döör.
> > > > > > > > According to Pfeifer, there are two closely related Germanic words,
> > > > > > > > one giving rise to German "Tür", Dutch "deur", Swedisch "dörr", and
> > > > > > > > the other one to English "door", German "Tor".
> > > > > > > > https://www.dwds.de/wb/etymwb/T%C3%BCr
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
> > > > > > > I wondered about the etymology of gate, also Germanic source.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gate (n.)
> > > > > > > "opening, entrance," Old English geat (plural geatu) "gate, door, opening, passage, hinged framework barrier," from Proto-Germanic *gatan (source also of Old Norse gat "opening, passage," Old Saxon gat "eye of a needle, hole," Old Frisian gat "hole, opening," Dutch gat "gap, hole, breach," German Gasse "street, lane, alley"), of unknown origin.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I suspect related to gather (open arms [gap] get & close/clasp) & aligns with mate/grid-grate/eat-ate, probably term for "doorway"?
> > > > > > >

> Kumpul@Mly: gather, collect, cone (funnel?)

Kumpul compile combine sum/cum/(gen?) cumulative compute
XyUaMBUaTL

> > > > > > > njambuanGDuaTlua?
> > > > > > Rather njuambuanGduATluA (thru.borne.hole, woambelle)
> > > > > > xyuambGATlachya (G insertion atypical, replaced u?, cf generate bereshit)
> > > > > Aside
> > > > > Cogenerate cognate cognition gnate gate grate mate date late
> > > > > mata@Mly: eye, stigmata, , stomata
> > > > Very interesting link between genus/genesis, (co)gnate, genu (knee) paternal version of generation has son touching father's knee, maternal version has birth.
> > > > https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/01/si-amun.html
> > > >
> > > > "In it I talked about the fact that the word for generation and the word for knee have the same root in many languages. Why?
> > > > Because of this: The English etymological dictionary says something interesting about the etymology of the word genus: "...could come from Latin genu (knee) from a supposed ancient custom of a father acknowledging paternity of a newborn by placing it on his knee..."
> > > https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cognatus#Latin
> > > Kinsman, sibling, co-generate
> > -
> >
> > July 7 2007 thread post:
> >
> > OK sage, would you tell me are the words like Latin prognatus prefixed
> > > >or not; pro + gnatus?
> >
> > > There is an English word "prognathous" (or "prognathic")
> > > [C19: from pro- (before) + Greek gnathos (jaw)]
> > The Latin word "progantus" is indeed prefixed. The Latin
> > prefix "pro-" corresponds to the English "for(e)-", the German "vor-",
> > the Polish "pro-" and "przed-", and the Serbian "pro-" and "pred-".
> > For more information, see:
> > http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE395.html
> >
> > The "gn" in "prognatus" comes from the PIE stem "gen-", which means
> > "give birth to, beget. See:
> > http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE143.html
> >
> > As for the Greek-derivous "prognathous", the Greek prefix "pro-" is
> > cognate with the prefixes listed above, and the stem "gnatho" is
> > derived from one of two Pie stems "genu-", the first of which means
> > "knee", and the other of which means "jaw, chin". See:
> > http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE145.html
> > -
> >
> > Note:
> > Bungu@*Proto-Australian: riverbend, knee (could fit bent knee and bending jaw)
> > Bongo@Proto-Bantu: knee
> > Bukna@Kartvel: squat dance
> > B:u:Ka@Georgian: bend/t
> > Birgul@Mingrel: knee
> > Br@Hbr: give
> > Beri@Mly: give; bawa: bear/carry
> > B/\nt'/\@Hbr?: bind
> > Bnt@Hamitic: bind, kr@Ham-Sem: to bind
> >
> > https://www.academia.edu/49246886/BASIC_VOCABULARY_GLOBALITY_KARTVELIAN_EPISODES?email_work_card=thumbnail

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:30:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g.. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it)..
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > > Need word lists!!
> > > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > > >
> > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > >
> > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > >
> > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > >
> > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > iztitl nail
> > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > Gate: otl
> > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > Azt iztitl nail
> > Basque azkazal nail
> > Azt acatl arrow dart
> >
> > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:01:22 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:30:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e..g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > > > Need word lists!!
> > > > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > >
> > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > >
> > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > >
> > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > >
> > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> Cwrwgl@Welsh: coracle
> Corita: coracle/bullboat used on Colorado River by Amerindians (via Spn corona/cordita?)
> > > >
> > > > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.
> > !ai @ !kung San bushmen, Ju/wasi "!ai" digging stick
> >
> > Tschu @ The dome grass hut or "tshu", such as those of the Ju/wasi (San "bushmen") is probably one of the oldest shelters used by humans
> >
> > <https://books.google.nl/books?id=rtHR8_gK_WwC&lpg=PA164&hl=nl&pg=PA14#v
Loom as noun and verb appear to link as up and down/over-under motion of weaving/waving of ships

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:41:41 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:01:22 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:30:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > > > > Need word lists!!
> > > > > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > >
> > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > >
> > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > >
> > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> > Cwrwgl@Welsh: coracle
> > Corita: coracle/bullboat used on Colorado River by Amerindians (via Spn corona/cordita?)
> > > > >
> > > > > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.
> > > !ai @ !kung San bushmen, Ju/wasi "!ai" digging stick
> > >
> > > Tschu @ The dome grass hut or "tshu", such as those of the Ju/wasi (San "bushmen") is probably one of the oldest shelters used by humans
> > >
> > > <https://books.google.nl/books?id=rtHR8_gK_WwC&lpg=PA164&hl=nl&pg=PA14#v> Loom as noun and verb appear to link as up and down/over-under motion of weaving/waving of ships
>
> Compare (mon)golu to geloma/lama/loom and harigolu@Indic: coracle weaving, as finger-hand-needle tool, also cf pendulum cf penis, pintu-pintle-s.pin
>
> loom (n.)
> weaving machine, early 13c. shortening of Old English geloma "utensil, tool," from ge-, perfective prefix, + -loma, an element of unknown origin (compare Old English andloman (plural) "apparatus, article of furniture"). Originally "implement or tool of any kind" (as in heirloom); thus, "the penis" (c. 1400-1600). Specific meaning "a machine in which yarn or thread is woven into fabric" is from c. 1400.
>
> loom (v.)
> 1540s, "to come into view largely and indistinctly," of uncertain origin. According to OED perhaps from a Scandinavian or Low German source (compare dialectal Swedish loma, East Frisian lomen "move slowly"), which is perhaps from the root of lame (adj.). Early used also of ships moving up and down.. Figurative use from 1590s. Related: Loomed; looming

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 8:11:30 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:41:41 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:01:22 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:30:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > > > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > > > > > Need word lists!!
> > > > > > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > > >
> > > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > > > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> > > Cwrwgl@Welsh: coracle
> > > Corita: coracle/bullboat used on Colorado River by Amerindians (via Spn corona/cordita?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.
> > > > !ai @ !kung San bushmen, Ju/wasi "!ai" digging stick
> > > >
> > > > Tschu @ The dome grass hut or "tshu", such as those of the Ju/wasi (San "bushmen") is probably one of the oldest shelters used by humans
> > > >
> > > > <https://books.google.nl/books?id=rtHR8_gK_WwC&lpg=PA164&hl=nl&pg=PA14#v=
> > Loom as noun and verb appear to link as up and down/over-under motion of weaving/waving of ships
> >
> > Compare (mon)golu to geloma/lama/loom and harigolu@Indic: coracle weaving, as finger-hand-needle tool, also cf pendulum cf penis, pintu-pintle-s.pin
> >
> > loom (n.)
> > weaving machine, early 13c. shortening of Old English geloma "utensil, tool," from ge-, perfective prefix, + -loma, an element of unknown origin (compare Old English andloman (plural) "apparatus, article of furniture"). Originally "implement or tool of any kind" (as in heirloom); thus, "the penis" (c. 1400-1600). Specific meaning "a machine in which yarn or thread is woven into fabric" is from c. 1400.
> >
> > loom (v.)
> > 1540s, "to come into view largely and indistinctly," of uncertain origin. According to OED perhaps from a Scandinavian or Low German source (compare dialectal Swedish loma, East Frisian lomen "move slowly"), which is perhaps from the root of lame (adj.). Early used also of ships moving up and down. Figurative use from 1590s. Related: Loomed; looming
> I suspect links to elementum@Ltn, ex liman/eliminate: off threshold, and limit/bounds
> https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/elementum#Latin

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:41:41 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:01:22 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:30:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > > > > Need word lists!!
> > > > > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > >
> > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > >
> > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > >
> > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> > Cwrwgl@Welsh: coracle
> > Corita: coracle/bullboat used on Colorado River by Amerindians (via Spn corona/cordita?)
> > > > >
> > > > > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.
> > > !ai @ !kung San bushmen, Ju/wasi "!ai" digging stick
> > >
> > > Tschu @ The dome grass hut or "tshu", such as those of the Ju/wasi (San "bushmen") is probably one of the oldest shelters used by humans
> > >
> > > <https://books.google.nl/books?id=rtHR8_gK_WwC&lpg=PA164&hl=nl&pg=PA14#v> Loom as noun and verb appear to link as up and down/over-under motion of weaving/waving of ships
>
> Compare (mon)golu to geloma/lama/loom and harigolu@Indic: coracle weaving, as finger-hand-needle tool, also cf pendulum cf penis, pintu-pintle-s.pin
>
> loom (n.)
> weaving machine, early 13c. shortening of Old English geloma "utensil, tool," from ge-, perfective prefix, + -loma, an element of unknown origin (compare Old English andloman (plural) "apparatus, article of furniture"). Originally "implement or tool of any kind" (as in heirloom); thus, "the penis" (c. 1400-1600). Specific meaning "a machine in which yarn or thread is woven into fabric" is from c. 1400.
>
> loom (v.)
> 1540s, "to come into view largely and indistinctly," of uncertain origin. According to OED perhaps from a Scandinavian or Low German source (compare dialectal Swedish loma, East Frisian lomen "move slowly"), which is perhaps from the root of lame (adj.). Early used also of ships moving up and down.. Figurative use from 1590s. Related: Loomed; looming

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:35:38 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:41:41 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:01:22 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:30:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > > > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > > > > > Need word lists!!
> > > > > > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > > >
> > > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > > > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> > > Cwrwgl@Welsh: coracle
> > > Corita: coracle/bullboat used on Colorado River by Amerindians (via Spn corona/cordita?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.
> > > > !ai @ !kung San bushmen, Ju/wasi "!ai" digging stick
> > > >
> > > > Tschu @ The dome grass hut or "tshu", such as those of the Ju/wasi (San "bushmen") is probably one of the oldest shelters used by humans
> > > >
> > > > <https://books.google.nl/books?id=rtHR8_gK_WwC&lpg=PA164&hl=nl&pg=PA14#v=
> > Loom as noun and verb appear to link as up and down/over-under motion of weaving/waving of ships
> >
> > Compare (mon)golu to geloma/lama/loom and harigolu@Indic: coracle weaving, as finger-hand-needle tool, also cf pendulum cf penis, pintu-pintle-s.pin
> >
> > loom (n.)
> > weaving machine, early 13c. shortening of Old English geloma "utensil, tool," from ge-, perfective prefix, + -loma, an element of unknown origin (compare Old English andloman (plural) "apparatus, article of furniture"). Originally "implement or tool of any kind" (as in heirloom); thus, "the penis" (c. 1400-1600). Specific meaning "a machine in which yarn or thread is woven into fabric" is from c. 1400.
> >
> > loom (v.)
> > 1540s, "to come into view largely and indistinctly," of uncertain origin. According to OED perhaps from a Scandinavian or Low German source (compare dialectal Swedish loma, East Frisian lomen "move slowly"), which is perhaps from the root of lame (adj.). Early used also of ships moving up and down. Figurative use from 1590s. Related: Loomed; looming
> Interesting that loom as referred to ships moving (only) up and down not forward or right/left, which is exactly what coracles do:
>
> https://images.app.goo.gl/xaB7StBarPLq72Xz6
>
> Also interesting, coracle as boat, backpack, bucket/basket, shelter/domeshield...is it really believable that it was independently invented just a few thousand years ago in Celtic Britain, Basque Spain, Herakles Greece, Mesopotamia, India, Vietnam, Tibet, North Dakota, Colorado, and nobody thought of it before then?
>
> Etymology
> Related to Welsh corwgl, Irish curach, corrach (“boat”) and Cornish gorhel (“ship”), from Proto-Celtic *kurukos (“boat”).
>
> (This etymology is missing or incomplete. Please add to it, or discuss it at the Etymology scriptorium. Particularly: “Is it related to currach?”)
>
> [DD: they do not know. Cwrwgl = kupharigolu
>
> kufa: Arab coracle
>
> gophar/teba: Hebrew ark (Moses's basket, Noah's ark, Sargon's ship, David's ark of the covenant {pre-rectified}))
>
> harigolu: Indian coracle
>
> Kuphos: Greek cup]

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:35:38 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:41:41 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 7:01:22 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:30:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:46:00 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 9:03:01 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 8:06:21 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:10:35 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 1:17:17 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:13:25 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 9:06:47 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:12:46 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13.02.2022 12:51, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Entrench/entrance/internal/endura-ndula under
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Entre entour into(r)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (I) INTER/INTRA
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > entre < Latin inter "between"/"among"/"in the midst of", along with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > preposition & adverb intra (from intera) "inside/within, in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > interior" &c.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > inter's kinship, inter alia: Engl. under, Germ. unter, Goth undar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanscrit antar.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Antara.bangsa@Mly: inter.national
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on, interlay?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) INDURARE, INDURAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas endur- is something else: Latin in- + duro, indurare
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "(getting, making etc) hard, dure" ("making dour"); compare Latin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > durus, dura, durum "hard; rough", which > French dur/-e and vb.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > endurer, Ital duro. Cf. Sanscr. daruna "hard, rough".
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ngduatlua ngDuAtLU(n)A ngDUatLA
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Induerre@Ltn: to put on durable skin/rough outerwear/shield-shell
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms: indurare, induravi, past participle as adjective induratus,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > indurata, induratum (e.g. "hardened"). Hence duress, dour ("harsh,"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "stern), endure/-ing, -ance; Ital. grano duro "durum wheat" &c
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (esp in Romance languages, with even more meanings, e.g. in Romanian
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > îndurare "mercy", i.e. begging for it, getting it).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > French/English/Hispanic en-/em- are mere new Romance forms for the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Latin in-, namely in western areas of the Romance world ("Romania").
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (iii) DURARE, DURATIO
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the other, related, "family" based on Latin durare with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a primordial meaning referring to time: hence Engl. "duration".
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Endura@Mbuti: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Etxe@Bsq: the people within the home = family intergenerational
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (iv) UNDA, UNDULAT-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > OTOH, undulatus, undulata, undulatum "making/having/showing waves-like
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > something", <= Lat. unda "wave". Unda & undula have nothing to do with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > indur- > endur-. Unda's IE kinship: Sanscr. ud-, und-, referring to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > being "wet", hence, uda "water;" Old Engl. ydhu "wave"; Slav. voda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "water"; Greek ὕδωρ, ὑάδες (compare Latin udor); Goth. vatō "water";
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc, incl. Gr. & "international": (h)ydr-a/o-. For Lat. unda: Hispania
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romance and Italian onda, French onde, Romanian unda, Lithuanian udens
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > atl@Azt: water
> > > > > > > > > > > > > *wahir@OMly: water
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (njamb)uangduatlua ATL UNDA WAngd(H)iA
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (v) TRENCH - trancher, tranchier, tranche
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > entrench is made of prefix en- + word: trench < French trenchier "to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cut" > trench ("ditch");
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Drainage {s}Tren(it)ch D(ren)itch .s.trict/s.ect/intersect/interest/spec.ies Streams cut through land
> > > > > > > > > > > > > tranche "portion, section" of sth., from Fr.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > trancher "cut a slice (etc)" > even in German tran(s)chieren "cut in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pieces: esp. boiled/roasted fowl", i.e. "to partition", to make por-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > tions out of one <corpus>. And also the French-German notion
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > die Tranche "installment/rate" ie, "part of a series of actions,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > esp. in payments" (pay/ment installment).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, great. Add this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sevivon@Hbr: swing/swivel, Semitic root sbb ("to turn")
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vibra.te/wobble/{xyUAmBuatL}/w.eb(b)/weave(over-under/ndula)/wavy/undula
> > > > > > > > > > > > Quibble
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Seems obvious to me that the derived forms mentioned above stemmed from the root familiarity of the family shelter, its texture, its form, its construction traits. If you are weaving wicker into a shelter, you can't use hand gestures to communicate, but you can vocalize freely, and vice versa. The word Unda came not from the sea but from the over-under handweaving of twigs to make a durable family home with a roomy interior, ndula, imo.
> > > > > > > > > > > Initially, only words relative to early human interactions existed. Mountains, rivers, sun/moon evolved from more basal terms.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > To cut is to enter between. Endura/ndula in two, en- duo, in- dual. To enter between the shield and the ground, thus interior
> > > > > > > > > > > En- trench, entre-
> > > > > > > > > > > Entrance ~ entrench
> > > > > > > > > > Malay ascend/descend naik/turun
> > > > > > > > > > To enter domeshield, one tilted it up and descended into the center
> > > > > > > > > > EnDURa-nDULa/inTERNa/TURuN
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Interestingly, 'center' reflects a po.inter which enters a t.ent as a NeeDLE (NDuLA), or skin as a spl.INTeR.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > center (n.)
> > > > > > > > > > late 14c., "middle point of a circle; point round which something revolves," from Old French centre (14c.), from Latin centrum "center," originally the fixed point of the two points of a drafting compass (hence "the center of a circle"), from Greek kentron "sharp point, goad, sting of a wasp," from kentein "stitch," from PIE root *kent- "to prick" (source also of Breton kentr "a spur," Welsh cethr "nail," Old High German hantag "sharp, pointed").
> > > > > > > > > When the Mbuti and Baka women build their mong(u/o)lu dome huts they gather ngongo leaves for shingles, they slit the woody stems clothespin-like and hang them from the wicker frame. What are their terms for this? Pin? (M/b)end? P.ndula?(pendulum) dalam@Mly: inside vs diluar: outside; pintu@Mly: frame-hung door. Undula wavy weaving.
> > > > > > > > > Need word lists!!
> > > > > > > > I've found none of Pygmy words.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pin, needle, arrow, dart, thorn, spine in Aztec
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thorn maguey spine; thorn: huitztli
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > their spine; their thorn: inhitzio
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > huitzmallotl azt: sewing needle
> > > > > > > > iztitl nail
> > > > > > > > arrow; bolt; dart; spear mitl
> > > > > > > > arrow; dart; reed acatl
> > > > > > > > peg , stake: tlaxichtli
> > > > > > > > Gate: otl
> > > > > > > > they hang it: quipipiloa
> > > > > > > Thus possibly Azt used -itzi/-izti/-ichtli to mean po.int.er, rather than inte-/endu-ra.
> > > > > > > Note that the Aztecs had migrated far from the tropical forests of central Africa, and used various materials for their shelters.
> > > > > > Basque ezten sting, izten awl
> > > > > > Azt iztitl nail
> > > > > > Basque azkazal nail
> > > > > > Azt acatl arrow dart
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Basque Oscol treebark, shell
> > > > > > Basque sabel belly (Xy)uA(m)BELe
> > > > > > > Igloo@Innuit and mongolu@Mbuti both retain the original sense and sound of "enclose/enclothe", igloo has no aboveground doorway, thus is closer to the original domeshield enclosure. Mongolu may have replaced (ua)ngolu when doorway & hearth were added, changing the transportable domeshield-coracle to the sedentary dome hut. This would explain why a coracle in India is called harigolu, not harimongolu, people had moved from Africa to India *before* inventing dome huts with internal hearths cf Mount Toba.
> > > > Cwrwgl@Welsh: coracle
> > > > Corita: coracle/bullboat used on Colorado River by Amerindians (via Spn corona/cordita?)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am still searching for the words used by the Pygmy women to describe their leaf pinning.
> > > > > !ai @ !kung San bushmen, Ju/wasi "!ai" digging stick
> > > > >
> > > > > Tschu @ The dome grass hut or "tshu", such as those of the Ju/wasi (San "bushmen") is probably one of the oldest shelters used by humans
> > > > >
> > > > > <https://books.google.nl/books?id=rtHR8_gK_WwC&lpg=PA164&hl=nl&pg=PA14#v=
> > > Loom as noun and verb appear to link as up and down/over-under motion of weaving/waving of ships
> > >
> > > Compare (mon)golu to geloma/lama/loom and harigolu@Indic: coracle weaving, as finger-hand-needle tool, also cf pendulum cf penis, pintu-pintle-s..pin
> > >
> > > loom (n.)
> > > weaving machine, early 13c. shortening of Old English geloma "utensil, tool," from ge-, perfective prefix, + -loma, an element of unknown origin (compare Old English andloman (plural) "apparatus, article of furniture"). Originally "implement or tool of any kind" (as in heirloom); thus, "the penis" (c. 1400-1600). Specific meaning "a machine in which yarn or thread is woven into fabric" is from c. 1400.
> > >
> > > loom (v.)
> > > 1540s, "to come into view largely and indistinctly," of uncertain origin. According to OED perhaps from a Scandinavian or Low German source (compare dialectal Swedish loma, East Frisian lomen "move slowly"), which is perhaps from the root of lame (adj.). Early used also of ships moving up and down. Figurative use from 1590s. Related: Loomed; looming
> > Interesting that loom as referred to ships moving (only) up and down not forward or right/left, which is exactly what coracles do:
> >
> > https://images.app.goo.gl/xaB7StBarPLq72Xz6
> >
> > Also interesting, coracle as boat, backpack, bucket/basket, shelter/domeshield...is it really believable that it was independently invented just a few thousand years ago in Celtic Britain, Basque Spain, Herakles Greece, Mesopotamia, India, Vietnam, Tibet, North Dakota, Colorado, and nobody thought of it before then?
> >
> > Etymology
> > Related to Welsh corwgl, Irish curach, corrach (“boat”) and Cornish gorhel (“ship”), from Proto-Celtic *kurukos (“boat”).
> >
> > (This etymology is missing or incomplete. Please add to it, or discuss it at the Etymology scriptorium. Particularly: “Is it related to currach?”)
> >
> > [DD: they do not know. Cwrwgl = kupharigolu
> >
> > kufa: Arab coracle
> >
> > gophar/teba: Hebrew ark (Moses's basket, Noah's ark, Sargon's ship, David's ark of the covenant {pre-rectified}))
> >
> > harigolu: Indian coracle
> >
> > Kuphos: Greek cup]
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
>
> GM: I am interested in human evolution.
>
> DD: Did ancient Homo sleep in sand castles, or underwater like whales, or back floating like sea otters, or in sea caves like super furred sea lions, or in coco palms like coconut crabs or tucked in giant clamshells like little mermaids? Imaginary..
>
> Or,
>
> did they sleep like nearly all real human people today, under rain-shedding sun-shading roofs?
>
> GM: Domeshields appear to have nothing whatsoever to do with why we are different from the other apes..
>
> DD: Non sequitur. No other great hominoids construct anything like them, but do sleep in hand-woven arboreal bowl nests with resulting convergent derived traits not seen in humans, gibbons or monkeys eg. short backs, short legs, quadrupedal ground knucklewalk locomotion. Chromosome inversion => domicile inversion. QED.
>
> Also, iirc, some East African people slept under sea turtle carapaces sometimes.
-