https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abq4884

Op vrijdag 19 augustus 2022 om 02:47:53 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abq4884

The developmental impacts of natural selection on human pelvic morphology
Mariel Young cs 2022 Sci.Adv.8,33 doi 10.1126/sciadv.abq4884
Evol.responses to selection for BPism & childbirth have shaped the human pelvis ...
Here, we pinpoint & characterize a key gestational window when human-specific pelvic morphology becomes recognizable, as the ilium & the entire pelvis acquire traits essential for human walking & birth.
We use functional genomics to molecularly characterize chondrocytes from different pelvic sub-elements during this window, to reveal their developmental-genetic architectures.
We find evidence of ancient selection & genetic constraint on regulatory sequences involved in ilium expansion & growth,
findings + our phenotypic analyses show: variation in iliac traits is reduced in humans vs Afr.apes ...

Thanks, I sent them a comment (hope they'll publish):
- pelvic birthing adaptations are probably Pleist. (Homo: very large brain),
- pelvic orthograde adaptations are at least Miocene (Hominoidea),
interesting study, but it can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abq4884
>

Also, popular press type version

https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking

With the consent of women who had legally terminated their pregnancies, the
researchers examined 4- to 12-week-old embryos under a microscope. They
found that roughly around the 6- to 8-week mark, the ilium begins to form and
then rotates into its telltale basinlike shape. Even as other cartilage
within the
embryo starts to ossify into bone, Capellini’s team found this cartilage
stage in
the pelvis seems to persist for several more weeks, giving the developing
structure more time to curve and rotate. “These aren’t bones, this is
cartilage
that is growing and expanding and taking that shape,” Capellini says.

“We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.

Op maandag 22 augustus 2022 om 06:41:42 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:

> Also, popular press type version
> https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking
> ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.

:-DDD
Their study is intersting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.

All hominoids had orthograde ancestors: not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.

- Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
- Orthogrady was at least Miocene.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 5:52:31 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op maandag 22 augustus 2022 om 06:41:42 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:
> > Also, popular press type version
> > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking
> > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.
> :-DDD
> Their study is intersting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.
>
> All hominoids had arboreal bipedal orthograde slow walking, bimanual slow brachiating ancestors. [Fixed]
==
: not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
>
> - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
> - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.

On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 5:52:31 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op maandag 22 augustus 2022 om 06:41:42 UTC+2 schreef Primum Sapienti:
> > Also, popular press type version
> > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking
> > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.
> :-DDD
> Their study is intersting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.
>
> All hominoids had orthograde ancestors: not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
>
> - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.

Homo brain: 2.25% of body weight, consumes 20% of oxygen.
Peter's elephantnose (Ubangi mormyrin) brain: 3% of body weight, consumes 30% of oxygen.

> - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.

Op maandag 22 augustus 2022 om 15:59:24 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking
> > > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.

> > :-DDD

> > Their study is interesting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.

> All hominoids had arboreal bipedal orthograde slow walking, bimanual slow brachiating ancestors. [Fixed]

Rather
- slow bipedal wading in forest swamp,
- slow climbing in the branches above the swamp.

> > : not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
> > - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
> > - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.

On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 3:28:13 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op maandag 22 augustus 2022 om 15:59:24 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking
> > > > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > > > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.
>
> > > :-DDD
> > > Their study is interesting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.
> > All hominoids had arboreal bipedal orthograde slow walking, bimanual slow brachiating ancestors. [Fixed]
> Rather
> - slow bipedal wading in forest swamp,
> - slow climbing in the branches above the swamp.
> > > : not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
> > > - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
> > > - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.

Sahelanthropus biped arboreal

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/08/220824120832.htm

Note: the foramen magnum position does not indicate quadru vs bipedalism in hominoids, chimps & gorillas knucklewalk which is derived from archaic arboreal bipedalism.

Op donderdag 25 augustus 2022 om 04:47:46 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > > > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking

> > > > > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > > > > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.

> > > > :-DDD
> > > > Their study is interesting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.

> > > All hominoids had arboreal bipedal orthograde slow walking, bimanual slow brachiating ancestors. [Fixed]

> > Rather
> > - slow bipedal wading in forest swamp,
> > - slow climbing in the branches above the swamp.

> > > > : not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
> > > > - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
> > > > - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.

> Sahelanthropus biped arboreal

Yes, bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead

> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/08/220824120832.htm

Yes, all hominoids were orthograde aquarborealists.

> Note: the foramen magnum position does not indicate quadru vs bipedalism in hominoids, chimps & gorillas knucklewalk which is derived from archaic arboreal bipedalism.

:-DDD
My little boy: derived from aquarboreal BPism.
Inform a little bit & google "aquarboreal".

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:20:36 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op donderdag 25 augustus 2022 om 04:47:46 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking
>
> > > > > > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > > > > > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.
>
> > > > > :-DDD
> > > > > Their study is interesting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.
>
> > > > All hominoids had arboreal bipedal orthograde slow walking, bimanual slow brachiating ancestors. [Fixed]
>
> > > Rather
> > > - slow bipedal wading in forest swamp,
> > > - slow climbing in the branches above the swamp.
>
> > > > > : not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
> > > > > - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
> > > > > - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.
>
> > Sahelanthropus biped arboreal
> Yes, bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead
>
> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/08/220824120832.htm
>
> Yes, all hominoids were orthograde aquarborealists.
> > Note: the foramen magnum position does not indicate quadru vs bipedalism in hominoids, chimps & gorillas knucklewalk which is derived from archaic arboreal bipedalism.
> :-DDD
> My little boy: derived from aquarboreal BPism.
> Inform a little bit & google "aquarboreal".

the new study "makes quite unlikely that the common ancestor we share with the chimpanzees was looking like a chimpanzee," Guy said.

True, it was a quasi-hylobatid, resembling a shorter-armed gibbon.

Op donderdag 25 augustus 2022 om 13:04:54 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > > > > > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking

> > > > > > > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > > > > > > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.

> > > > > > :-DDD Their study is interesting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.

> > > > > All hominoids had arboreal bipedal orthograde slow walking, bimanual slow brachiating ancestors. [Fixed]

> > > > Rather slow bipedal wading in forest swamp + slow climbing in the branches above the swamp.

> > > > > > : not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
> > > > > > - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
> > > > > > - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.

> > > Sahelanthropus biped arboreal

> > Yes, bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead

> > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/08/220824120832.htm

> > Yes, all hominoids were orthograde aquarborealists.

> > > Note: the foramen magnum position does not indicate quadru vs bipedalism in hominoids, chimps & gorillas knucklewalk which is derived from archaic arboreal bipedalism.

> > :-DDD My little boy: derived from aquarboreal BPism.
> > Inform a little bit & google "aquarboreal".

> the new study "makes quite unlikely that the common ancestor we share with the chimpanzees was looking like a chimpanzee," Guy said.

Of course, as we're saying for ages: it didn't knuckle-walk,
but simply waded bipedally & clmibed arms overhead in swamp forests,
google "aquarboreal".

> True, it was a quasi-hylobatid, resembling a shorter-armed gibbon.

:-DDD
Grow up, my boy!

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:52:43 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op donderdag 25 augustus 2022 om 13:04:54 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > > > > https://www.science.org/content/article/genes-reveal-how-our-pelvis-evolved-upright-walking
>
> > > > > > > > ... “We think this is really pointing to the origins of bipedalism in our
> > > > > > > > genome,” Capellini says of his team’s work.
>
> > > > > > > :-DDD Their study is interesting, but can't discern between innovations in Homo & losses in Pan & Gorilla, & v.v.
>
> > > > > > All hominoids had arboreal bipedal orthograde slow walking, bimanual slow brachiating ancestors. [Fixed]
> > > > > Rather slow bipedal wading in forest swamp + slow climbing in the branches above the swamp.
> > > > > > > : not for running over savannas as some imbeciles still believe, of course, but simply for wading upright & climbing arms overhead in swamp forests.
> > > > > > > - Very large brains (more difficult birthing) probably began early-Pleistocene.
> > > > > > > - Orthogrady was at least Miocene.
>
> > > > Sahelanthropus biped arboreal
>
> > > Yes, bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead
>
> > > > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/08/220824120832.htm
>
> > > Yes, all hominoids were orthograde aquarborealists.
>
>
> > > > Note: the foramen magnum position does not indicate quadru vs bipedalism in hominoids, chimps & gorillas knucklewalk which is derived from archaic arboreal bipedalism.
>
> > > :-DDD My little boy: derived from aquarboreal BPism.
> > > Inform a little bit & google "aquarboreal".
>
> > the new study "makes quite unlikely that the common ancestor we share with the chimpanzees was looking like a chimpanzee," Guy said.
> Of course, as we're saying for ages: it didn't knuckle-walk,
> but simply waded bipedally & clmibed arms overhead in swamp forests,
> google "aquarboreal".
> > True, it was a quasi-hylobatid, resembling a shorter-armed gibbon.
> :-DDD
> Grow up, my boy!

Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.

Op vrijdag 26 augustus 2022 om 02:46:07 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

....

> Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.

Of course, my little boy, rhe hominoid LCA was aquarboreal, unlike monkeys.
Thanks for the argument.

On Saturday, August 27, 2022 at 2:27:03 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op vrijdag 26 augustus 2022 om 02:46:07 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
>
> ...
> > Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.
.

Op zondag 28 augustus 2022 om 06:42:58 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.

Can't you read well, my little boy? or is it perhaps too difficult for you??
Of course, some monkeys wade occasionally (those that wade more frequently such as Nasalis concolor evolve shorter tails),
but early Hominoidea were most of the time during the day wading bipedally in forest swamps:
they evolved orthogrady = wading bipeally & climbing arms overhead in the branches above the water, e.g.
-centrally placed & less mobile spine (less lumbar vertebrae, but sacralisation),
-complete tail loss, much wide sternum,
-thorax & pelvis (with lateral arms & legs) etc.etc.
Can't you see the differences between monkeys & apes, my boy?? ever heard of anatomy??
Please inform before trying to say something, google e.g. "aquarboreal".
Perhaps you could better try to help a bit: did they mostly wade in inland, or in coastal forests? mangroves??

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 10:28:00 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zondag 28 augustus 2022 om 06:42:58 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.
> Can't you read well, my little boy? or is it perhaps too difficult for you??
> Of course, some monkeys wade occasionally (those that wade more frequently such as Nasalis concolor evolve shorter tails),
> but early Hominoidea were most of the time during the day wading bipedally in forest swamps:
> they evolved orthogrady = wading bipeally & climbing arms overhead in the branches above the water, e.g.
> -centrally placed & less mobile spine (less lumbar vertebrae, but sacralisation),
> -complete tail loss, much wide sternum,
> -thorax & pelvis (with lateral arms & legs) etc.etc.
> Can't you see the differences between monkeys & apes, my boy?? ever heard of anatomy??
> Please inform before trying to say something, google e.g. "aquarboreal".
> Perhaps you could better try to help a bit: did they mostly wade in inland, or in coastal forests? mangroves??

N concolor wades more frequently?? Wrong again.

Habitat
The habitat of S. concolor includes hillsides in primary forests. This species is entirely arboreal and only comes down from the trees when it is disturbed. (Burton, 1995; Nowak, 1999)

Habitat Regions: tropical terrestrial
Terrestrial Biomes: rainforest

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 2:39:16 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 10:28:00 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Op zondag 28 augustus 2022 om 06:42:58 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.
> > Can't you read well, my little boy? or is it perhaps too difficult for you??
> > Of course, some monkeys wade occasionally (those that wade more frequently such as Nasalis concolor evolve shorter tails),
> > but early Hominoidea were most of the time during the day wading bipedally in forest swamps:
> > they evolved orthogrady = wading bipeally & climbing arms overhead in the branches above the water, e.g.
> > -centrally placed & less mobile spine (less lumbar vertebrae, but sacralisation),
> > -complete tail loss, much wide sternum,
> > -thorax & pelvis (with lateral arms & legs) etc.etc.
> > Can't you see the differences between monkeys & apes, my boy?? ever heard of anatomy??
> > Please inform before trying to say something, google e.g. "aquarboreal".
> > Perhaps you could better try to help a bit: did they mostly wade in inland, or in coastal forests? mangroves??
> N concolor wades more frequently?? Wrong again.
>
> Habitat
> The habitat of S. concolor includes hillsides in primary forests. This species is entirely arboreal and only comes down from the trees when it is disturbed. (Burton, 1995; Nowak, 1999)
>
> Habitat Regions: tropical terrestrial
> Terrestrial Biomes: rainforest

MV still wrong: "If they had simply evolved from above- to below-branch, they'd been more Ateles-like I'd think, e.g. with long tails"
- Atelids pluck with hands only (never feet), while hanging by prehensile tail.
Apes pluck with feet while hanging from hands. Tails gave no advantage, so were lost.

Op zondag 28 augustus 2022 om 20:57:21 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > > > > Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.

> > > Can't you read well, my little boy? or is it perhaps too difficult for you??
> > > Of course, some monkeys wade occasionally (those that wade more frequently such as Nasalis concolor evolve shorter tails),
> > > but early Hominoidea were most of the time during the day wading bipedally in forest swamps:
> > > they evolved orthogrady = wading bipeally & climbing arms overhead in the branches above the water, e.g.
> > > -centrally placed & less mobile spine (less lumbar vertebrae, but sacralisation),
> > > -complete tail loss, much wide sternum,
> > > -thorax & pelvis (with lateral arms & legs) etc.etc.
> > > Can't you see the differences between monkeys & apes, my boy?? ever heard of anatomy??
> > > Please inform before trying to say something, google e.g. "aquarboreal".
> > > Perhaps you could better try to help a bit: did they mostly wade in inland, or in coastal forests? mangroves??

No answer, of course.

> > N concolor wades more frequently?? Wrong again.
> > Habitat
> > The habitat of S. concolor includes hillsides in primary forests. This species is entirely arboreal and only comes down from the trees when it is disturbed. (Burton, 1995; Nowak, 1999)
> > Habitat Regions: tropical terrestrial
> > Terrestrial Biomes: rainforest

Yes, it's its close relative Nasalis larvatus that wades more: their LCA probably waded regularly.

> MV still wrong: "If they had simply evolved from above- to below-branch, they'd been more Ateles-like I'd think, e.g. with long tails"
> Atelids pluck with hands only (never feet), while hanging by prehensile tail.
> Apes pluck with feet while hanging from hands. Tails gave no advantage, so were lost.

:-DDD
Purely arboreal tetrapods don't lose the tail, my boy.
It's very simply: early hominoids lost the tail because they waded upright:
do you understand the word "upright", "orthograde", "vertical"??
Hominoids have centrally-placed spines, not dorsally as in monkeys & +-all mammals:
do you understand the word "aquarboreal"??

On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 4:34:09 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zondag 28 augustus 2022 om 20:57:21 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > > > Wading & climbing Brazzas monkeys have narrow chests like crabeating macaques, unlike hylobatids & humans.
>
> > > > Can't you read well, my little boy? or is it perhaps too difficult for you??
> > > > Of course, some monkeys wade occasionally (those that wade more frequently such as Nasalis concolor evolve shorter tails),
> > > > but early Hominoidea were most of the time during the day wading bipedally in forest swamps:
> > > > they evolved orthogrady = wading bipeally & climbing arms overhead in the branches above the water, e.g.
> > > > -centrally placed & less mobile spine (less lumbar vertebrae, but sacralisation),
> > > > -complete tail loss, much wide sternum,
> > > > -thorax & pelvis (with lateral arms & legs) etc.etc.
> > > > Can't you see the differences between monkeys & apes, my boy?? ever heard of anatomy??
> > > > Please inform before trying to say something, google e.g. "aquarboreal".
> > > > Perhaps you could better try to help a bit: did they mostly wade in inland, or in coastal forests? mangroves??
> No answer, of course.

You're still wrong.

> > > N concolor wades more frequently?? Wrong again.
> > > Habitat
> > > The habitat of S. concolor includes hillsides in primary forests. This species is entirely arboreal and only comes down from the trees when it is disturbed. (Burton, 1995; Nowak, 1999)
> > > Habitat Regions: tropical terrestrial
> > > Terrestrial Biomes: rainforest
> Yes, it's its close relative Nasalis larvatus that wades more: their LCA probably waded regularly.

You're still wrong.

> > MV still wrong: "If they had simply evolved from above- to below-branch, they'd been more Ateles-like I'd think, e.g. with long tails"
> > Atelids pluck with hands only (never feet), while hanging by prehensile tail.
> > Apes pluck with feet while hanging from hands. Tails gave no advantage, so were lost.
> :-DDD
> Purely arboreal tetrapods don't lose the tail, my boy.

Hominoids are arboreal bipeds, tail became functionless. Same happened to perching bipedal pterosaurs, birds and hominoids, all lost the long tail.

> It's very simply: early hominoids lost the tail because they waded upright:

Nasalis larvatus & brazzas monkey disprove your claim.

> do you understand the word "upright", "orthograde", "vertical"??
> Hominoids have centrally-placed spines, not dorsally as in monkeys & +-all mammals:
> do you understand the word "aquarboreal"??

You're still wrong. Slow brachiation and slow bipedal branch locomotion seeking fruit & nuts...