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tech / sci.lang / Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

SubjectAuthor
* (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]henh...@gmail.com
+* Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Athel Cornish-Bowden
|`* Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Arnaud Fournet
| `* Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Athel Cornish-Bowden
|  `- Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]henh...@gmail.com
`* Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Ruud Harmsen
 `* Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]henh...@gmail.com
  `* Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Arnaud Fournet
   +- Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Peter T. Daniels
   `* Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Ruud Harmsen
    +- Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]Arnaud Fournet
    `- Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]wugi

1
(corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

<d343c43b-d966-4c68-8520-47c66acbb588n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:01 UTC

1. a corpus of spoken English ---- which one should i use (first) ?

2. i got [SBCorpus.zip] which is only 1.2 MB
------- how do i search thru this in Windows 10 PC ?

3. Has anyone actually heard anyone use the expression _[tout court]_ in English or French speech ?

-------------- (i recently noticed it in a movie)

HH

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

<jengp9Fg2pdU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 20:32:07 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:32 UTC

On 2022-05-19 16:01:22 +0000, henh...@gmail.com said:

>
> [ … ]
>
>
> 3. Has anyone actually heard anyone use the expression _[tout court]_
> in English or French speech ?

Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

<o39d8h1i0pvag8dpl7313236mtgnfhq568@4ax.com>

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 22:13:05 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Thu, 19 May 2022 20:13 UTC

Thu, 19 May 2022 09:01:22 -0700 (PDT): "henh...@gmail.com"
<henhanna@gmail.com> scribeva:

Long time no see!

>1. a corpus of spoken English ---- which one should i use (first) ?

Don't understand the question, cannot reply.
>
>
>2. i got [SBCorpus.zip] which is only 1.2 MB
>------- how do i search thru this in Windows 10 PC ?

Linux:
unzip
grep

Windows:
wish you luck.

>3. Has anyone actually heard anyone use the expression _[tout court]_ in English or French speech ?

In Dutch, yes.

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

<39ce3a70-164f-4ac4-bc22-041c68c231b4n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 03:06:44 +0000
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Fri, 20 May 2022 03:06 UTC

A C-B says: --- Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.

i've heard monolingual white Americans (who know NO French) say things like [Voila!] and [Tout suite]

and maybe [Tout court] in English is much more common than i thought:

(Newsweek) Elon Musk Is a Hero, but He Shouldn't Have To Be | Opinion
.............. Either Section 230 must be reformed to prevent politically motivated censorship, or it must be repealed tout court if such fine-tuning... (1 week ago)

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/tout-court

--------------- So let's have a crack at sustainability, tout court.
Times, Sunday Times (2011)

---------------- Not the fate of this or that civilization, but of civilization tout court, might hang in the balance.
The Times Literary Supplement (2014)

------------------- I should address your host by his first name and surname tout court, without handle or suffix.
Times, Sunday Times (2008)

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 1:13:07 PM UTC-7, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Thu, 19 May 2022 09:01:22 -0700 (PDT): "henh...@gmail.com"
> <henh...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>
> Long time no see!
> >1. a corpus of spoken English ---- which one should i use (first) ?
> Don't understand the question, cannot reply.
> >
> >
> >2. i got [SBCorpus.zip] which is only 1.2 MB
> >------- how do i search thru this in Windows 10 PC ?
> Linux:
> unzip
> grep
>
> Windows:
> wish you luck.
> >3. Has anyone actually heard anyone use the expression _[tout court]_ in English or French speech ?
> In Dutch, yes.

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

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Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
From: fournet....@wanadoo.fr (Arnaud Fournet)
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 by: Arnaud Fournet - Sat, 21 May 2022 05:32 UTC

Le jeudi 19 mai 2022 à 20:32:12 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2022-05-19 16:01:22 +0000, henh...@gmail.com said:
>
> >
> > [ … ]
> >
> >
> > 3. Has anyone actually heard anyone use the expression _[tout court]_
> > in English or French speech ?
> Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.

I have the feeling that this expression "tout court" is a bit oldish in French,
I've books.googled it and most books are from before 1900.

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

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Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
From: fournet....@wanadoo.fr (Arnaud Fournet)
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 by: Arnaud Fournet - Sat, 21 May 2022 05:36 UTC

Le vendredi 20 mai 2022 à 05:06:45 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
> A C-B says: --- Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.
>
>
> i've heard monolingual white Americans (who know NO French) say things like [Voila!] and [Tout suite]

It should be "tout de suite" = immediately

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

<b7edd3f8-0bcb-4e9d-aba2-cd6989c9af17n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sat, 21 May 2022 13:48 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 1:36:22 AM UTC-4, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> Le vendredi 20 mai 2022 à 05:06:45 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :

> > A C-B says: --- Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.
> > i've heard monolingual white Americans (who know NO French) say things like [Voila!] and [Tout suite]
>
> It should be "tout de suite" = immediately

Pronounced in English "toute sweet" -- from which Prof. Peter
Schickele was able to discover a work for calliope by P. D. Q.
Bach called the Toot Suite.

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sat, 21 May 2022 13:53 UTC

Fri, 20 May 2022 22:36:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
<fournet.arnaud@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:

>Le vendredi 20 mai 2022 à 05:06:45 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>> A C-B says: --- Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.
>>
>>
>> i've heard monolingual white Americans (who know NO French) say things like [Voila!] and [Tout suite]
>
>It should be "tout de suite" = immediately

In fast speech by Frenc native speakers, the d can collide with the s,
become somewhat devoiced, and then resemble a "tout suite" with an
incorrectly expected (by Americans) to be sounded t? Any plausibility
in this little theory of mine?

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

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Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
From: fournet....@wanadoo.fr (Arnaud Fournet)
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 by: Arnaud Fournet - Sat, 21 May 2022 14:34 UTC

Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 15:53:36 UTC+2, Ruud Harmsen a écrit :
> Fri, 20 May 2022 22:36:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
> <fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
> >Le vendredi 20 mai 2022 à 05:06:45 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
> >> A C-B says: --- Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.
> >>
> >>
> >> i've heard monolingual white Americans (who know NO French) say things like [Voila!] and [Tout suite]
> >
> >It should be "tout de suite" = immediately
> In fast speech by Frenc native speakers, the d can collide with the s,
> become somewhat devoiced, and then resemble a "tout suite" with an
> incorrectly expected (by Americans) to be sounded t? Any plausibility
> in this little theory of mine?

possibly so, but I don't know how Americans actually pronounce "tout suite"..
A misanalysis of tout d' suit' as "tout suite" is indeed thinkable.

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

<jesd2qFdrodU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 16:59:36 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Sat, 21 May 2022 14:59 UTC

On 2022-05-21 05:32:43 +0000, Arnaud Fournet said:

> Le jeudi 19 mai 2022 à 20:32:12 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> On 2022-05-19 16:01:22 +0000, henh...@gmail.com said:>> >> > [ … ]
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. Has anyone actually heard anyone use the expression _[tout court]_>
>>> > in English or French speech ?
>> Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.
> I have the feeling that this expression "tout court" is a bit oldish in French,
> I've books.googled it and most books are from before 1900.

Maybe, but in an interview yesterday the interviewer (maybe Apolline de
Malherbe, but I'm not sure) said "tout court" in her first couple of
sentences.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

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From: wug...@scrlt.com (wugi)
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Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 20:59:19 -0300
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 by: wugi - Sat, 21 May 2022 23:59 UTC

Op 21/05/2022 om 10:53 schreef Ruud Harmsen:
> Fri, 20 May 2022 22:36:20 -0700 (PDT): Arnaud Fournet
> <fournet.arnaud@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
>
>> Le vendredi 20 mai 2022 à 05:06:45 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>> A C-B says: --- Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.
>>>
>>>
>>> i've heard monolingual white Americans (who know NO French) say things like [Voila!] and [Tout suite]
>>
>> It should be "tout de suite" = immediately
>
> In fast speech by Frenc native speakers, the d can collide with the s,
> become somewhat devoiced, and then resemble a "tout suite" with an

Rather "toute suite"

> incorrectly expected (by Americans) to be sounded t? Any plausibility
> in this little theory of mine?

I'd rather explain it as attraction of the (erroneous) "toute suite" form.

--
guido wugi

Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]

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Subject: Re: (corpus of spoken English) --- the expression [tout court]
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Sun, 22 May 2022 19:29 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 7:59:41 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-21 05:32:43 +0000, Arnaud Fournet said:
>
> > Le jeudi 19 mai 2022 à 20:32:12 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> >> On 2022-05-19 16:01:22 +0000, henh...@gmail.com said:>> >> > [ … ]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 3. Has anyone actually heard anyone use the expression _[tout court]_>
> >>> > in English or French speech ?
> >> Yes. It's a perfectly ordinary expression in French.
> > I have the feeling that this expression "tout court" is a bit oldish in French,
> > I've books.googled it and most books are from before 1900.
> Maybe, but in an interview yesterday the interviewer (maybe Apolline de
> Malherbe, but I'm not sure) said "tout court" in her first couple of
> sentences.
> --
> Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

> I already answered this last question at sci.lang. You showed no response.. Why should I waste more time on it?

thanks... So it seems quite common in French.

here's where i heard it recently:

https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/movie_script.php?movie=o-brother-where-art-thou

https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/o_brother.html

BIG MAN (John Goodman) --

Don't believe I've seen you boys
around here before! Allow me
t'innerduce myself: name of Daniel
Teague, known in these precincts as
Big Dan Teague or, to those who're
pressed for time, Big Dan toot court.

EVERETT --
How d'you do, Big Dan. I'm Ulysses Everett McGill;

----------- he (George Clooney) looks kind of dark and Mexican in this film, so i thought his name was Ulysses Everett Miguel

1
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