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tech / sci.lang / Re: Paleo-etymology

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
`* Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
 `* Re: Paleo-etymologyRoss Clark
  +* Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
  |+- Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
  |`* Re: Paleo-etymologyRoss Clark
  | `- Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
  `* Re: Paleo-etymologyArnaud Fournet
   `* Re: Paleo-etymologyRoss Clark
    `* Re: Paleo-etymologyRoss Clark
     `* Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
      +* Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
      |+* Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
      ||`- Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
      |`- Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
      `* Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden
       `- Re: Paleo-etymologyDaud Deden

1
Re: Paleo-etymology

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Fri, 13 May 2022 11:00 UTC

Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
skyphos = scoop, drinking cup

I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield

Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl

https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain

Re: Paleo-etymology

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Fri, 20 May 2022 15:08 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
>
> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
>
> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
>
> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain

Skyphos scoop cup
Kyphos dome cap kuphos

Cup [invert] Cap

Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
Caping @Indo: cap, cone straw hat

Topa @Hnd: cup coracle
Topi @Hnd: cap

Chum @Evenki: cone hut, tipi

All from xyuambuatluachualua / kupharigolu domeshield-basket-coracle

Re: Paleo-etymology

<t6996g$dl7$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=14648&group=sci.lang#14648

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From: benli...@ihug.co.nz (Ross Clark)
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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 11:45:13 +1200
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 by: Ross Clark - Fri, 20 May 2022 23:45 UTC

On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
>>
>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
>>
>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
>>
>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain
>
>
> Skyphos scoop cup
> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
>
> Cup [invert] Cap
>
> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
(cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn

> Caping @Indo: cap, cone straw hat
Indo dictionary says "metal cover; lobe of ear (caping telinga)"
Winstedt says "metal or coconut-shell modesty-piece (for infant
girls); scutcheon (over keyhole); ankle-guard (of footballers)"
Interesting range of "covers". Apparently not Austronesian.
>
> Topa @Hnd: cup coracle
> Topi @Hnd: cap
>
> Chum @Evenki: cone hut, tipi
>
> All from xyuambuatluachualua / kupharigolu domeshield-basket-coracle
>

Re: Paleo-etymology

<8477e5f5-17cc-4b51-895f-4614b63c30f2n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Sat, 21 May 2022 01:51 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> >> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> >> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> >> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> >>
> >> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> >>
> >> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> >> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> >>
> >> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther..html?m=1
> >> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> >> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain
> >
> > NJ
> > Skyphos scoop cup
> > Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> >
> > Cup [invert] Cap
> >
> > Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn

Thanks, I thought of cha/tea only after posting. Teh Cina is Malay for regular tea. I never heard of Japanese tea there.
Do you know if wàn bowl is linked to wok? Wok may have started as a ceramic cooking bowl before metal age, still older maybe turtle shells and large clam shells.

> > Caping @Indo: cap, cone straw hat

I got that from a Quora article comparing Philipino to Indonesian, rice straw hat in Phil is salakot, in Indo is caping, maybe South China source. Assamese: jaapi. Might be linked to Hindi & Malay: topi /hat.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-history-behind-Jaapi-the-conical-Assamese-hat-as-none-of-other-Northeastern-states-or-in-other-parts-of-India-are-these-types-of-headgear-or-hats-worn?ch=10&oid=71957106&share=13b272ac&srid=RPhZF&target_type=question

> Indo dictionary says "metal cover; lobe of ear (caping telinga)"
> Winstedt says "metal or coconut-shell modesty-piece (for infant
> girls); scutcheon (over keyhole); ankle-guard (of footballers)"
> Interesting range of "covers". Apparently not Austronesian.
> >
> > Topa @Hnd: cup coracle
> > Topi @Hnd: cap
> >
> > Chum @Evenki: cone hut, tipi
> >
> > All from xyuambuatluachualua / kupharigolu domeshield-basket-coracle

Re: Paleo-etymology

<d5a0cd32-d24c-45bf-822e-b8efbb9172dbn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Sat, 21 May 2022 02:50 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 9:51:35 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> > >> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> > >> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> > >>
> > >> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> > >>
> > >> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> > >> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> > >>
> > >> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> > >> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> > >> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain
> > >
> > > NJ
> > > Skyphos scoop cup
> > > Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> > >
> > > Cup [invert] Cap
> > >
> > > Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> > specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> > (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> > ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> Thanks, I thought of cha/tea only after posting. Teh Cina is Malay for regular tea. I never heard of Japanese tea there.
> Do you know if wàn bowl is linked to wok? Wok may have started as a ceramic cooking bowl before metal age, still older maybe turtle shells and large clam shells.
> > > Caping @Indo: cap, cone straw hat
> I got that from a Quora article comparing Philipino to Indonesian, rice straw hat in Phil is salakot, in Indo is caping, maybe South China source. Assamese: jaapi. Might be linked to Hindi & Malay: topi /hat.
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-history-behind-Jaapi-the-conical-Assamese-hat-as-none-of-other-Northeastern-states-or-in-other-parts-of-India-are-these-types-of-headgear-or-hats-worn?ch=10&oid=71957106&share=13b272ac&srid=RPhZF&target_type=question
> > Indo dictionary says "metal cover; lobe of ear (caping telinga)"
> > Winstedt says "metal or coconut-shell modesty-piece (for infant
> > girls); scutcheon (over keyhole); ankle-guard (of footballers)"
> > Interesting range of "covers". Apparently not Austronesian.
> > >
> > > Topa @Hnd: cup coracle
> > > Topi @Hnd: cap
> > >
> > > Chum @Evenki: cone hut, tipi
> > >
> > > All from xyuambuatluachualua / kupharigolu domeshield-basket-coracle

Hmm fearlessly reckoning further,
Wan @Chn/Jpn: bowl/cup m->n?
Kom @ODut: bowl/cup
Amphorae @AGrk: wine bowl-bearer (not flat base, closeable bowl)
XyUAM.BUATLuA: domeshield?
Kup.hari.golu coracle cwrwgl
Mon.golu Mbuti dome hut

Note: my phone keyboard doesn't have [a] with swoosh above. Æãåāàáâä

Re: Paleo-etymology

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
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 by: Ross Clark - Sat, 21 May 2022 04:04 UTC

On 21/05/2022 1:51 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
>>>>
>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
>>>>
>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
>>>>
>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain
>>>
>>> NJ
>>> Skyphos scoop cup
>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
>>>
>>> Cup [invert] Cap
>>>
>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
>
> Thanks, I thought of cha/tea only after posting. Teh Cina is Malay for regular tea. I never heard of Japanese tea there.

Exported names for tea fall into the "te" group from Amoy/Hokkien via
Dutch into Malay, English etc.; and the "cha(i)" group, from Mandarin
into Russian, Arabic, English ("char") etc.

> Do you know if wàn bowl is linked to wok?

Doesn't look like it. "Wok" (< Cantonese) has a completely different
character and apparently corresponds to Mandarin huò (per Wiki "Wok").
(The "wok" character uses the "metal" radical, whereas the "wan"
character seems to use either "stone" or "wood".)

Wok may have started as a ceramic cooking bowl before metal age, still
older maybe turtle shells and large clam shells.
>
>>> Caping @Indo: cap, cone straw hat
>
> I got that from a Quora article comparing Philipino to Indonesian, rice straw hat in Phil is salakot, in Indo is caping, maybe South China source. Assamese: jaapi. Might be linked to Hindi & Malay: topi /hat.
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-history-behind-Jaapi-the-conical-Assamese-hat-as-none-of-other-Northeastern-states-or-in-other-parts-of-India-are-these-types-of-headgear-or-hats-worn?ch=10&oid=71957106&share=13b272ac&srid=RPhZF&target_type=question
>
>> Indo dictionary says "metal cover; lobe of ear (caping telinga)"
>> Winstedt says "metal or coconut-shell modesty-piece (for infant
>> girls); scutcheon (over keyhole); ankle-guard (of footballers)"
>> Interesting range of "covers". Apparently not Austronesian.
>>>
>>> Topa @Hnd: cup coracle
>>> Topi @Hnd: cap
>>>
>>> Chum @Evenki: cone hut, tipi
>>>
>>> All from xyuambuatluachualua / kupharigolu domeshield-basket-coracle
>

Re: Paleo-etymology

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: fournet....@wanadoo.fr (Arnaud Fournet)
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 by: Arnaud Fournet - Sat, 21 May 2022 05:21 UTC

Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> >> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> >> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> >> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> >>
> >> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> >>
> >> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> >> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> >>
> >> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther..html?m=1
> >> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> >> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain
> >
> >
> > Skyphos scoop cup
> > Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> >
> > Cup [invert] Cap
> >
> > Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn

cha2bei1 sounds better
wan3 is more like a bowl of rice

Re: Paleo-etymology

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Sat, 21 May 2022 12:32 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 12:04:49 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 21/05/2022 1:51 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> >> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> >>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> >>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> >>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> >>>>
> >>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> >>>>
> >>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> >>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> >>>>
> >>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> >>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> >>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain
> >>>
> >>> NJ
> >>> Skyphos scoop cup
> >>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> >>>
> >>> Cup [invert] Cap
> >>>
> >>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> >> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> >> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> >> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> >
> > Thanks, I thought of cha/tea only after posting. Teh Cina is Malay for regular tea. I never heard of Japanese tea there.
> Exported names for tea fall into the "te" group from Amoy/Hokkien via
> Dutch into Malay, English etc.; and the "cha(i)" group, from Mandarin
> into Russian, Arabic, English ("char") etc.
> > Do you know if wàn bowl is linked to wok?
> Doesn't look like it. "Wok" (< Cantonese) has a completely different
> character and apparently corresponds to Mandarin huò (per Wiki "Wok").
> (The "wok" character uses the "metal" radical,

Coincidence:
Wok/huò - metal radical in character
Caping metal cover
Xyuamb

whereas the "wan"
> character seems to use either "stone" or "wood".)
> Wok may have started as a ceramic cooking bowl before metal age, still
> older maybe turtle shells and large clam shells.
> >
> >>> Caping @Indo: cap, cone straw hat
> >
> > I got that from a Quora article comparing Philipino to Indonesian, rice straw hat in Phil is salakot, in Indo is caping, maybe South China source. Assamese: jaapi. Might be linked to Hindi & Malay: topi /hat.
> > https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-history-behind-Jaapi-the-conical-Assamese-hat-as-none-of-other-Northeastern-states-or-in-other-parts-of-India-are-these-types-of-headgear-or-hats-worn?ch=10&oid=71957106&share=13b272ac&srid=RPhZF&target_type=question
> >
> >> Indo dictionary says "metal cover; lobe of ear (caping telinga)"
> >> Winstedt says "metal or coconut-shell modesty-piece (for infant
> >> girls); scutcheon (over keyhole); ankle-guard (of footballers)"
> >> Interesting range of "covers". Apparently not Austronesian.
> >>>
> >>> Topa @Hnd: cup coracle
> >>> Topi @Hnd: cap
> >>>
> >>> Chum @Evenki: cone hut, tipi
> >>>
> >>> All from xyuambuatluachualua / kupharigolu domeshield-basket-coracle
> >

Re: Paleo-etymology

<t6bjbc$r15$1@dont-email.me>

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From: benli...@ihug.co.nz (Ross Clark)
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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 08:50:45 +1200
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 by: Ross Clark - Sat, 21 May 2022 20:50 UTC

On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
>>>>
>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
>>>>
>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
>>>>
>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind separates chaff from grain
>>>
>>>
>>> Skyphos scoop cup
>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
>>>
>>> Cup [invert] Cap
>>>
>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
>
> cha2bei1 sounds better
> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
>

OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.

Re: Paleo-etymology

<t6c89v$k4p$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
Date: Sun, 22 May 2022 14:48:23 +1200
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 by: Ross Clark - Sun, 22 May 2022 02:48 UTC

On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
>> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
>>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
>>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
>>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
>>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
>>>>>
>>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
>>>>>
>>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
>>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
>>>>>
>>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
>>>>>
>>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
>>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
>>>>> separates chaff from grain
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Skyphos scoop cup
>>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
>>>>
>>>> Cup [invert] Cap
>>>>
>>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
>>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
>>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
>>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
>>
>> cha2bei1 sounds better
>> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
>>
>
> OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.

Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".

Re: Paleo-etymology

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Sun, 22 May 2022 05:22 UTC

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:48:34 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> >> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> >>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> >>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> >>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> >>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> >>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> >>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
> >>>>> separates chaff from grain
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Skyphos scoop cup
> >>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> >>>>
> >>>> Cup [invert] Cap
> >>>>
> >>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> >>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> >>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> >>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> >>
> >> cha2bei1 sounds better
> >> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
> >>
> >
> > OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> > The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> > from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> > Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> > gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> > Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> > have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> > Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.
> Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
> have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".

Cha- may have originally referred to a ja-m-packed container with its contents.

Tea and rice only date back about 2ka & 8ka. Oldest clay pots date to much older in both China & Japan.
Ostrich beads (holed-discs -> holed coins) have been found in China, porcelain teacups resemble ostrich eggshell water carriers.

Cha- ~ !hxaro @San: ostrich eggshell water insurance network, exchange beads between visiting women evidence (ja-mbo!
= greeting) in Africa 70ka. Malay archipelago switched to bamboo containers (fresh & sea water, rice, salt, maybe oldest bamboo rafts), Andamans used earthenware pots to carry embers, no firestarters.

Cha- !hxa- ja- xyua-(mbuatl water bottle) ca- ca-nal ka-yak cha-nnel ce-ramic c-lay ce-ll she-ll she-lter
canister kantong container cargo cache canada kampong camp /container of members
Malay dinners always have a water bowl for washing sticky fingers after meal, dunno the name.

Re: Paleo-etymology

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Subject: Re: Paleo-etymology
From: daud.de...@gmail.com (Daud Deden)
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 by: Daud Deden - Sun, 22 May 2022 15:41 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 1:22:37 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:48:34 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > > On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> > >> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> > >>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> > >>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> > >>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> > >>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> > >>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
> > >>>>> separates chaff from grain
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Skyphos scoop cup
> > >>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cup [invert] Cap
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> > >>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> > >>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> > >>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> > >>
> > >> cha2bei1 sounds better
> > >> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
> > >>
> > >
> > > OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> > > The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> > > from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> > > Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> > > gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> > > Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> > > have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> > > Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.
> > Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
> > have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".

> Cha- may have originally referred to a ja-m-packed container with its contents.

Jambalaya Frc prov stew from So Italy Naples, various names Ciambotta Giametta Gumbo Jumboot made in a pot or bowl
Not named for any individual ingredient but for the mixture cooking/consumed in a container, often a shared (!hxaro) bowl.
Jam @Egl: 18th C. property of a mix, music jam, machine jammed, fruit jam, door jamb(both inside and outside meet-mix-mate-gate).
Rice bowl is where other foods are mixed with rice. Tea cup is where stuff was mixed with water?

Jah is Rastafarian for God, Yahweh, Jehova, YHWH, the common pot-bowl-grail-gradel-god, Xyuambuatl?(Azt?)

grail (n.)
c. 1300, gral, "the Holy Grail," from Old French graal, greal "Holy Grail; cup," earlier "large shallow dish, basin," from Medieval Latin gradalis, also gradale, grasale, "a flat dish or shallow vessel." The original form is uncertain; the word is perhaps ultimately from Latin crater "bowl," which is from Greek krater "bowl, especially for mixing wine with water". Gradalis, krater from njambuanGuaDuaLua xyaCRaTR xyuambuatl (azt bowl??). A pot is a flat-bottomed bowl, a cone is a flat-angled bowl.

Yes, these are all derived from a common source. Xyua- or so.
Chum/chuum @Evenk common conical tent, the shared tipi, the whole band slept warm together in the big tent, cf Ukraine & Kostenki 43ka mammoth dome huts with curved tusks/ribs (from curved-wicker/saplings) evolved into cones with straight poles (easy to pull poles thru snow with reindeer/oxen/dogs/women). Winter access thru stepladder out/in the smokehole (santa's shaman flying chimney, Hopi-Zuni kachina smokehole ladder, Navajo hogan form, mandan winter lodge smokehole covered with furred coracle bullboat so night fire reduced to embers to prevent smoke inhalation while asleep cf Catlin)
>
> Tea and rice only date back about 2ka & 8ka. Oldest clay pots date to much older in both China & Japan.
> Ostrich beads (holed-discs -> holed coins) have been found in China, porcelain teacups resemble ostrich eggshell water carriers.
>
> Cha- ~ !hxaro @San: ostrich eggshell water insurance network, exchange beads between visiting women evidence (ja-mbo!
> = greeting) in Africa 70ka. Malay archipelago switched to bamboo containers (fresh & sea water, rice, salt, maybe oldest bamboo rafts), Andamans used earthenware pots to carry embers, no firestarters.
>
> Cha- !hxa- ja- xyua-(mbuatl water bottle) ca- ca-nal ka-yak cha-nnel ce-ramic c-lay ce-ll she-ll she-lter
> canister kantong container cargo cache canada kampong camp /container of members
> Malay dinners always have a water bowl for washing sticky fingers after meal, dunno the name.

Re: Paleo-etymology

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 by: Daud Deden - Mon, 23 May 2022 00:56 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:41:21 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 1:22:37 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:48:34 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > > > On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> > > >> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> > > >>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> > > >>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> > > >>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> > > >>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> > > >>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
> > > >>>>> separates chaff from grain
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Skyphos scoop cup
> > > >>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cup [invert] Cap
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> > > >>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> > > >>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> > > >>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> > > >>
> > > >> cha2bei1 sounds better
> > > >> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> > > > The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> > > > from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> > > > Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> > > > gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> > > > Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> > > > have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> > > > Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.
> > > Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
> > > have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".
>
> > Cha- may have originally referred to a ja-m-packed container with its contents.
> Jambalaya Frc prov stew from So Italy Naples, various names Ciambotta Giametta Gumbo Jumboot made in a pot or bowl
> Not named for any individual ingredient but for the mixture cooking/consumed in a container, often a shared (!hxaro) bowl.
> Jam @Egl: 18th C. property of a mix, music jam, machine jammed, fruit jam, door jamb(both inside and outside meet-mix-mate-gate).
> Rice bowl is where other foods are mixed with rice. Tea cup is where stuff was mixed with water?
>
> Jah is Rastafarian for God, Yahweh, Jehova, YHWH, the common pot-bowl-grail-gradel-god, Xyuambuatl?(Azt?)
>
> grail (n.)
> c. 1300, gral, "the Holy Grail," from Old French graal, greal "Holy Grail; cup," earlier "large shallow dish, basin," from Medieval Latin gradalis, also gradale, grasale, "a flat dish or shallow vessel." The original form is uncertain; the word is perhaps ultimately from Latin crater "bowl," which is from Greek krater "bowl, especially for mixing wine with water". Gradalis, krater from njambuanGuaDuaLua xyaCRaTR xyuambuatl (azt bowl??). A pot is a flat-bottomed bowl, a cone is a flat-angled bowl.
>
> Yes, these are all derived from a common source. Xyua- or so.
> Chum/chuum @Evenk common conical tent, the shared tipi, the whole band slept warm together in the big tent, cf Ukraine & Kostenki 43ka mammoth dome huts with curved tusks/ribs (from curved-wicker/saplings) evolved into cones with straight poles (easy to pull poles thru snow with reindeer/oxen/dogs/women). Winter access thru stepladder out/in the smokehole (santa's shaman flying chimney, Hopi-Zuni kachina smokehole ladder, Navajo hogan form, mandan winter lodge smokehole covered with furred coracle bullboat so night fire reduced to embers to prevent smoke inhalation while asleep cf Catlin)
> >
> > Tea and rice only date back about 2ka & 8ka. Oldest clay pots date to much older in both China & Japan.
> > Ostrich beads (holed-discs -> holed coins) have been found in China, porcelain teacups resemble ostrich eggshell water carriers.
> >
> > Cha- ~ !hxaro @San: ostrich eggshell water insurance network, exchange beads between visiting women evidence (ja-mbo!
> > = greeting) in Africa 70ka. Malay archipelago switched to bamboo containers (fresh & sea water, rice, salt, maybe oldest bamboo rafts), Andamans used earthenware pots to carry embers, no firestarters.
> >
> > Cha- !hxa- ja- xyua-(mbuatl water bottle) ca- ca-nal ka-yak cha-nnel ce-ramic c-lay ce-ll she-ll she-lter
> > canister kantong container cargo cache canada kampong camp /container of members
> > Malay dinners always have a water bowl for washing sticky fingers after meal, dunno the name.

Xyua-
Shaduof @Arb: bucket transfer water to canal to irrigate
xinehpaltic @Azt: stuck together, joined together, superposed, woven.
Xinepaloā to weave together

Re: Paleo-etymology

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 by: Daud Deden - Mon, 23 May 2022 01:11 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 8:56:42 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:41:21 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 1:22:37 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:48:34 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > > On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > > > > On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> > > > >> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> > > > >>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> > > > >>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> > > > >>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> > > > >>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> > > > >>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
> > > > >>>>> separates chaff from grain
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Skyphos scoop cup
> > > > >>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Cup [invert] Cap
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> > > > >>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> > > > >>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> > > > >>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> > > > >>
> > > > >> cha2bei1 sounds better
> > > > >> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> > > > > The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> > > > > from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> > > > > Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> > > > > gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> > > > > Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> > > > > have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> > > > > Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.
> > > > Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
> > > > have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".
> >
> > > Cha- may have originally referred to a ja-m-packed container with its contents.
> > Jambalaya Frc prov stew from So Italy Naples, various names Ciambotta Giametta Gumbo Jumboot made in a pot or bowl
> > Not named for any individual ingredient but for the mixture cooking/consumed in a container, often a shared (!hxaro) bowl.
> > Jam @Egl: 18th C. property of a mix, music jam, machine jammed, fruit jam, door jamb(both inside and outside meet-mix-mate-gate).
> > Rice bowl is where other foods are mixed with rice. Tea cup is where stuff was mixed with water?
> >
> > Jah is Rastafarian for God, Yahweh, Jehova, YHWH, the common pot-bowl-grail-gradel-god, Xyuambuatl?(Azt?)
> >
> > grail (n.)
> > c. 1300, gral, "the Holy Grail," from Old French graal, greal "Holy Grail; cup," earlier "large shallow dish, basin," from Medieval Latin gradalis, also gradale, grasale, "a flat dish or shallow vessel." The original form is uncertain; the word is perhaps ultimately from Latin crater "bowl," which is from Greek krater "bowl, especially for mixing wine with water". Gradalis, krater from njambuanGuaDuaLua xyaCRaTR xyuambuatl (azt bowl??). A pot is a flat-bottomed bowl, a cone is a flat-angled bowl.
> >
> > Yes, these are all derived from a common source. Xyua- or so.
> > Chum/chuum @Evenk common conical tent, the shared tipi, the whole band slept warm together in the big tent, cf Ukraine & Kostenki 43ka mammoth dome huts with curved tusks/ribs (from curved-wicker/saplings) evolved into cones with straight poles (easy to pull poles thru snow with reindeer/oxen/dogs/women). Winter access thru stepladder out/in the smokehole (santa's shaman flying chimney, Hopi-Zuni kachina smokehole ladder, Navajo hogan form, mandan winter lodge smokehole covered with furred coracle bullboat so night fire reduced to embers to prevent smoke inhalation while asleep cf Catlin)
> > >
> > > Tea and rice only date back about 2ka & 8ka. Oldest clay pots date to much older in both China & Japan.
> > > Ostrich beads (holed-discs -> holed coins) have been found in China, porcelain teacups resemble ostrich eggshell water carriers.
> > >
> > > Cha- ~ !hxaro @San: ostrich eggshell water insurance network, exchange beads between visiting women evidence (ja-mbo!
> > > = greeting) in Africa 70ka. Malay archipelago switched to bamboo containers (fresh & sea water, rice, salt, maybe oldest bamboo rafts), Andamans used earthenware pots to carry embers, no firestarters.
> > >
> > > Cha- !hxa- ja- xyua-(mbuatl water bottle) ca- ca-nal ka-yak cha-nnel ce-ramic c-lay ce-ll she-ll she-lter
> > > canister kantong container cargo cache canada kampong camp /container of members
> > > Malay dinners always have a water bowl for washing sticky fingers after meal, dunno the name.
> Xyua-
> Shaduof @Arb: bucket transfer water to canal to irrigate
> xinehpaltic @Azt: stuck together, joined together, superposed, woven.
> Xinepaloā to weave together
cuachiquihuitl @Azt: a high, deep basket. chicken ribs. [Rib rafter curved pole wicker lifter loft]

Re: Paleo-etymology

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 by: Daud Deden - Tue, 24 May 2022 21:06 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 1:22:37 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:48:34 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > > On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> > >> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> > >>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> > >>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> > >>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> > >>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> > >>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
> > >>>>> separates chaff from grain
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Skyphos scoop cup
> > >>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cup [invert] Cap
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> > >>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> > >>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> > >>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> > >>
> > >> cha2bei1 sounds better
> > >> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
> > >>
> > >
> > > OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> > > The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> > > from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> > > Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> > > gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> > > Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> > > have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> > > Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.
> > Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
> > have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".
> Cha- may have originally referred to a ja-m-packed container with its contents.
>
> Tea and rice only date back about 2ka & 8ka. Oldest clay pots date to much older in both China & Japan.
> Ostrich beads (holed-discs -> holed coins) have been found in China, porcelain teacups resemble ostrich eggshell water carriers.

Denisova cave (Siberia) had green jade bracelet, ivory headband, bird bone needle, ostrich eggshell beads (no ostrich in Siberia??) all linked to Denisovans ~ 50ka.

http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/neanderthal-womans-walk-of-love-some-90000-years-ago-between-two-caves-106-km-apart/

> Cha- ~ !hxaro @San: ostrich eggshell water insurance network, exchange beads between visiting women evidence (ja-mbo!
> = greeting) in Africa 70ka. Malay archipelago switched to bamboo containers (fresh & sea water, rice, salt, maybe oldest bamboo rafts), Andamans used earthenware pots to carry embers, no firestarters.
>
> Cha- !hxa- ja- xyua-(mbuatl water bottle) ca- ca-nal ka-yak cha-nnel ce-ramic c-lay ce-ll she-ll she-lter
> canister kantong container cargo cache canada kampong camp /container of members
> Malay dinners always have a water bowl for washing sticky fingers after meal, dunno the name.

Re: Paleo-etymology

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 by: Daud Deden - Wed, 25 May 2022 05:49 UTC

On Tuesday, May 24, 2022 at 5:06:30 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 1:22:37 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:48:34 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > > > On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> > > >> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> > > >>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> > > >>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> > > >>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> > > >>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> > > >>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
> > > >>>>> separates chaff from grain
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Skyphos scoop cup
> > > >>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cup [invert] Cap
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> > > >>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> > > >>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> > > >>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> > > >>
> > > >> cha2bei1 sounds better
> > > >> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> > > > The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> > > > from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> > > > Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> > > > gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> > > > Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> > > > have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> > > > Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.
> > > Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
> > > have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".
> > Cha- may have originally referred to a ja-m-packed container with its contents.
> >
> > Tea and rice only date back about 2ka & 8ka. Oldest clay pots date to much older in both China & Japan.
> > Ostrich beads (holed-discs -> holed coins) have been found in China, porcelain teacups resemble ostrich eggshell water carriers.
> Denisova cave (Siberia) had green jade bracelet, ivory headband, bird bone needle, ostrich eggshell beads (no ostrich in Siberia??) all linked to Denisovans ~ 50ka.
>
> http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/neanderthal-womans-walk-of-love-some-90000-years-ago-between-two-caves-106-km-apart/

The earliest fossils from this genus are from the early Miocene (20–25 mya [million years ago]) and are from Africa, so it is proposed that they originated there. Then by the middle to late Miocene (5–13 mya) they had spread to Eurasia.[7] By about 12 mya they had evolved into the larger size of which we are familiar. By this time they had spread to Mongolia and later southern Africa.[8] While the relationship of the African fossil species is comparatively straightforward, many Asian species of ostrich have been described from fragmentary remains, and their interrelationships and how they relate to the African ostriches are confusing. In China, ostriches are known to have become extinct only around or even after the end of the last ice age; images of ostriches have been found there on prehistoric pottery and petroglyphs.[9][10][11]

> > Cha- ~ !hxaro @San: ostrich eggshell water insurance network, exchange beads between visiting women evidence (ja-mbo!
> > = greeting) in Africa 70ka. Malay archipelago switched to bamboo containers (fresh & sea water, rice, salt, maybe oldest bamboo rafts), Andamans used earthenware pots to carry embers, no firestarters.
> >
> > Cha- !hxa- ja- xyua-(mbuatl water bottle) ca- ca-nal ka-yak cha-nnel ce-ramic c-lay ce-ll she-ll she-lter
> > canister kantong container cargo cache canada kampong camp /container of members
> > Malay dinners always have a water bowl for washing sticky fingers after meal, dunno the name.

Re: Paleo-etymology

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 by: Daud Deden - Fri, 27 May 2022 01:47 UTC

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 11:41:21 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 1:22:37 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 10:48:34 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > On 22/05/2022 8:50 a.m., Ross Clark wrote:
> > > > On 21/05/2022 5:21 p.m., Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> > > >> Le samedi 21 mai 2022 à 01:45:23 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> > > >>> On 21/05/2022 3:08 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 7:00:54 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >>>>> Kuphos = kyphos : hump, shieldborne aback
> > > >>>>> kyphosis : humpback hunchback, bent forward rounded
> > > >>>>> skyphos = scoop, drinking cup
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I had these confused, but are simply inverting shield
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Kūphos = (k/h)u(m)p dome tumulus xyuambuatl wombelle
> > > >>>>> Skyphos = scoop/cup quaffe kufa.rigolu coracle cwrgwl
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> https://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2022/05/demeter-riding-panther.html?m=1
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Demeter/Asherath/Innana with grain riding Leo = harvest month
> > > >>>>> Worshipped at threshing floor as temple at high place where wind
> > > >>>>> separates chaff from grain
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Skyphos scoop cup
> > > >>>> Kyphos dome cap kuphos
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cup [invert] Cap
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cauan @Indo: cup cawan
> > > >>> specifically a tea-cup, ?from Japanese chawan 'tea bowl'
> > > >>> (cha 'tea', wan 'bowl')
> > > >>> ?or Chinese of some sort, cf. Mandarin cháwăn
> > > >>
> > > >> cha2bei1 sounds better
> > > >> wan3 is more like a bowl of rice
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > OK, I put together the Mandarin word above from its two components.
> > > > The Japanese word could have been formed in Japanese, rather than copied
> > > > from a Chinese original. But the components are the same.
> > > > Interestingly, the little J-E dictionary gives "rice bowl" as the first
> > > > gloss, followed by "tea cup, tea bowl".
> > > > Maybe the Chinese don't use this term any more, or never did. I don't
> > > > have a big enough dictionary, or know enough about the history of
> > > > Japanese/Chinese tea-drinking practices, to investigate further.
> > > Just managed to find an older (1978) and larger Ch-Eng dictionary that I
> > > have, and they have both cha2bei1 and cha2wan3 translated as "tea-cup".
>
> > Cha- may have originally referred to a ja-m-packed container with its contents.
> Jambalaya Frc prov stew from So Italy Naples, various names Ciambotta Giametta Gumbo Jumboot made in a pot or bowl
> Not named for any individual ingredient but for the mixture cooking/consumed in a container, often a shared (!hxaro) bowl.
> Jam @Egl: 18th C. property of a mix, music jam, machine jammed, fruit jam, door jamb(both inside and outside meet-mix-mate-gate).
> Rice bowl is where other foods are mixed with rice. Tea cup is where stuff was mixed with water?
>
> Jah is Rastafarian for God, Yahweh, Jehova, YHWH, the common pot-bowl-grail-gradel-god, Xyuambuatl?(Azt?)
>
> grail (n.) L
> c. 1300, gral, "the Holy Grail," from Old French graal, greal "Holy Grail; cup," earlier "large shallow dish, basin," from Medieval Latin gradalis, also gradale, grasale, "a flat dish or shallow vessel." The original form is uncertain; the word is perhaps ultimately from Latin crater "bowl," which is from Greek krater "bowl, especially for mixing wine with water". Gradalis, krater from njambuanGuaDuaLua xyaCRaTR xyuambuatl (azt bowl??). A pot is a flat-bottomed bowl, a cone is a flat-angled bowl.

Calyx, chalice drinking cup
https://www.etymonline.com/word/*kel-#etymonline_v_52556

>
> Yes, these are all derived from a common source. Xyua- or so.
> Chum/chuum @Evenk common conical tent, the shared tipi, the whole band slept warm together in the big tent, cf Ukraine & Kostenki 43ka mammoth dome huts with curved tusks/ribs (from curved-wicker/saplings) evolved into cones with straight poles (easy to pull poles thru snow with reindeer/oxen/dogs/women). Winter access thru stepladder out/in the smokehole (santa's shaman flying chimney, Hopi-Zuni kachina smokehole ladder, Navajo hogan form, mandan winter lodge smokehole covered with furred coracle bullboat so night fire reduced to embers to prevent smoke inhalation while asleep cf Catlin)
> >
> > Tea and rice only date back about 2ka & 8ka. Oldest clay pots date to much older in both China & Japan.
> > Ostrich beads (holed-discs -> holed coins) have been found in China, porcelain teacups resemble ostrich eggshell water carriers.
> >
> > Cha- ~ !hxaro @San: ostrich eggshell water insurance network, exchange beads between visiting women evidence (ja-mbo!
> > = greeting) in Africa 70ka. Malay archipelago switched to bamboo containers (fresh & sea water, rice, salt, maybe oldest bamboo rafts), Andamans used earthenware pots to carry embers, no firestarters.
> >
> > Cha- !hxa- ja- xyua-(mbuatl water bottle) ca- ca-nal ka-yak cha-nnel ce-ramic c-lay ce-ll she-ll she-lter
> > canister kantong container cargo cache canada kampong camp /container of members
> > Malay dinners always have a water bowl for washing sticky fingers after meal, dunno the name.

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