A rainy winter's day here. Leafing through some word lists in an old
journal, I noticed something that seemed like an answer to a question I
raised here some years ago, but never got an answer to.

We've discussed "Burma" and "Myanmar", and agreed that they are just
different versions of the same name; and that the [r] in rhotic
speakers' pronunciation of the first syllable results from non-rhotic
speakers' using <ur> to spell [a:].

But what's the origin of Japanese Biruma and French Birmanie (and some
others)? Where did they get /i/ in the first syllable? and /r/, for that
matter? Not from English, certainly.

The word of interest is Old Mon mirmā 'Burmese'. If that's not the exact
source of the Japanese and French words, it's close enough to convince
me that they have a genuine local origin. (Old Mon inscriptions date
from XIIc. or earlier.)

Other forms mentioned in this comparative vocabulary: Modern Mon bamā;
Old Burmese mranmā; several Austro-Asiatic languages of northern Myanmar
have forms like mlan, məran, bran; and Chinese mien.

On 2022-07-25, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> We've discussed "Burma" and "Myanmar", and agreed that they are just
> different versions of the same name; and that the [r] in rhotic
> speakers' pronunciation of the first syllable results from non-rhotic
> speakers' using <ur> to spell [a:].

.... using <ur> to spell their NURSE vowel [ɜː], which non-rhotic
Brits used to approximate some central vowel in Burmese.

> But what's the origin of Japanese Biruma and French Birmanie (and some
> others)? Where did they get /i/ in the first syllable? and /r/, for that
> matter?

German usage has vacillated between Burma and Birma. Since <ir>
is another option to spell the NURSE vowel in English, I assume
both variants are simply borrowed from English.

Wiktionary lists "Birma, Birmah" as obsolete alternative forms in
English.

I don't think there's any mystery there.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On 2022-07-25 12:17:15 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

> On 2022-07-25, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> We've discussed "Burma" and "Myanmar", and agreed that they are just
>> different versions of the same name; and that the [r] in rhotic
>> speakers' pronunciation of the first syllable results from non-rhotic
>> speakers' using <ur> to spell [a:].
>
> ... using <ur> to spell their NURSE vowel [ɜː], which non-rhotic
> Brits used to approximate some central vowel in Burmese.
>
>> But what's the origin of Japanese Biruma and French Birmanie (and some
>> others)? Where did they get /i/ in the first syllable? and /r/, for that
>> matter?
>
> German usage has vacillated between Burma and Birma. Since <ir>
> is another option to spell the NURSE vowel in English, I assume
> both variants are simply borrowed from English.
>
> Wiktionary lists "Birma, Birmah" as obsolete alternative forms in
> English.

The oil company was Burmah Oil.
>
> I don't think there's any mystery there.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 1:35:50 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> A rainy winter's day here. Leafing through some word lists in an old
> journal, I noticed something that seemed like an answer to a question I
> raised here some years ago, but never got an answer to.
>
> We've discussed "Burma" and "Myanmar", and agreed that they are just
> different versions of the same name; and that the [r] in rhotic
> speakers' pronunciation of the first syllable results from non-rhotic
> speakers' using <ur> to spell [a:].
>
> But what's the origin of Japanese Biruma and French Birmanie (and some
> others)? Where did they get /i/ in the first syllable? and /r/, for that
> matter? Not from English, certainly.
>
> The word of interest is Old Mon mirmā 'Burmese'. If that's not the exact
> source of the Japanese and French words, it's close enough to convince
> me that they have a genuine local origin. (Old Mon inscriptions date
> from XIIc. or earlier.)
>
> Other forms mentioned in this comparative vocabulary: Modern Mon bamā;
> Old Burmese mranmā; several Austro-Asiatic languages of northern Myanmar
> have forms like mlan, məran, bran; and Chinese mien.

Both Burma and Myanmar in today's Thai are 'Myanmarpye'.
Biruma (Jpn) probably sounded more like Bir ma than biruma, no real u sound..

On 26/07/2022 12:17 a.m., Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2022-07-25, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> We've discussed "Burma" and "Myanmar", and agreed that they are just
>> different versions of the same name; and that the [r] in rhotic
>> speakers' pronunciation of the first syllable results from non-rhotic
>> speakers' using <ur> to spell [a:].
>
> ... using <ur> to spell their NURSE vowel [ɜː], which non-rhotic
> Brits used to approximate some central vowel in Burmese.
>
>> But what's the origin of Japanese Biruma and French Birmanie (and some
>> others)? Where did they get /i/ in the first syllable? and /r/, for that
>> matter?
>
> German usage has vacillated between Burma and Birma. Since <ir>
> is another option to spell the NURSE vowel in English, I assume
> both variants are simply borrowed from English.
>
> Wiktionary lists "Birma, Birmah" as obsolete alternative forms in
> English.
>
> I don't think there's any mystery there.

I'm suggesting that the Old Mon form provides a more likely explanation
of all the -i- 's.