Hi,

working as a repair tech, I often get strange fault reports from customers.
Along the lines of my xxxxx is "doing funny things" followed by a condition that sounds impossible to me.
Examples:

1. DJ complains that the bass keeps audibly dropping out when he uses the crossfader on his desk. " Please fix crossfader ".

2. The headphone output on a large desk is "leaking into the FOH". The owner insists that when he hits the PFL button on a channel with the fader fully down - signal from the associated mic pops up audibly in the FOH mix.

Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?

...... Phil

On 12/20/2021 11:25 AM, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> working as a repair tech, I often get strange fault reports from customers.
> Along the lines of my xxxxx is "doing funny things" followed by a condition that sounds impossible to me.
> Examples:
>
> 1. DJ complains that the bass keeps audibly dropping out when he uses the crossfader on his desk. " Please fix crossfader ".
>
> 2. The headphone output on a large desk is "leaking into the FOH". The owner insists that when he hits the PFL button on a channel with the fader fully down - signal from the associated mic pops up audibly in the FOH mix.
>
> Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?
>
> ..... Phil
>
>
>

Obviously neither claim is valid because both customers
are fucking morons. :)

Tobiah wrote:
==========
>
> > Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?
> >
> >
> >
> Obviously neither claim is valid because both customers
> are fucking morons. :)

** Nope - but you are.

Both reported what the heard quite accurately.

...... Phil

On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:25:05 -0800 (PST), "palli...@gmail.com"
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>working as a repair tech, I often get strange fault reports from customers.
>Along the lines of my xxxxx is "doing funny things" followed by a condition that sounds impossible to me.
>Examples:
>
>1. DJ complains that the bass keeps audibly dropping out when he uses the crossfader on his desk. " Please fix crossfader ".
>
>2. The headphone output on a large desk is "leaking into the FOH". The owner insists that when he hits the PFL button on a channel with the fader fully down - signal from the associated mic pops up audibly in the FOH mix.
>
> Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?
>
>..... Phil
>
>
Symptom 1. is ill defined. If he meant when the cross-fade was
somewhere near centre, I would be looking for an incorrectly phased
balanced connection on one source.

Number 2 - again poor diagnostic info. If it is just one channel, my
first check for number 2 would be a missing or poor ground on the
fader.

d

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On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 10:43:11 GMT, spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:25:05 -0800 (PST), "palli...@gmail.com"
><pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>working as a repair tech, I often get strange fault reports from customers.
>>Along the lines of my xxxxx is "doing funny things" followed by a condition that sounds impossible to me.
>>Examples:
>>
>>1. DJ complains that the bass keeps audibly dropping out when he uses the crossfader on his desk. " Please fix crossfader ".
>>
>>2. The headphone output on a large desk is "leaking into the FOH". The owner insists that when he hits the PFL button on a channel with the fader fully down - signal from the associated mic pops up audibly in the FOH mix.
>>
>> Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?
>>
>>..... Phil
>>
>>
>Symptom 1. is ill defined. If he meant when the cross-fade was
>somewhere near centre, I would be looking for an incorrectly phased
>balanced connection on one source.
>
>Number 2 - again poor diagnostic info. If it is just one channel, my
>first check for number 2 would be a missing or poor ground on the
>fader.
>
>d

Moral of the story - you don't try to diagnose from second hand
reports of symptoms. You need the thing on your bench.
d

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Don Pearce need to Read Carefully:
==================
>
> >1. DJ complains that the bass keeps audibly dropping out when he uses the crossfader
> > on his desk. " Please fix crossfader ".
> >
> >2. The headphone output on a large desk is "leaking into the FOH". The owner insists that
> >when he hits the PFL button on a channel with the fader fully down - signal from the associated
> > mic pops up audibly in the FOH mix.
> >
> > Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?
> >
> >
> Symptom 1. is ill defined. If he meant when the cross-fade was
> somewhere near centre, I would be looking for an incorrectly phased
> balanced connection on one source.
>
> Number 2 - again poor diagnostic info. If it is just one channel, my
> first check for number 2 would be a missing or poor ground on the
> fader.
>

** Just to be clear, there were NO faults with either piece of gear NOR any wrong connections or settings.

The reports were correct but spurious.

....... Phil

On Tuesday, December 21, 2021 at 6:25:08 AM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> working as a repair tech, I often get strange fault reports from customers.
> Along the lines of my xxxxx is "doing funny things" followed by a condition that sounds impossible to me.
> Examples:
>
> 1. DJ complains that the bass keeps audibly dropping out when he uses the crossfader on his desk. " Please fix crossfader ".
>
> 2. The headphone output on a large desk is "leaking into the FOH". The owner insists that when he hits the PFL button on a channel with the fader fully down - signal from the associated mic pops up audibly in the FOH mix.
>
> Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?
>

** OK - Complaint 1 was dopey.
---------------------------------------------------
DJs like to run 2 turntables and crossfade between them.
However, before they do that they try to "synch" the beat so the changeover is seamless.
Most Disco and rave dance music has steady 120 bpm or so rate.
So, the speed controls of both TTs are tweaked to get a match as heard in their headphones first.

Then they move the crossfader from TT1 to TT2 over a few seconds, while listening to the room speakers.
On many occasions, with fader around mid position, phase cancellation occurs ( at their listening position) temporarily removing the "thump" from the beat.

Complaint 2 is a lot more technical and bizarre.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My customer was listening to the FOH sound with the headphones turned up loud and *resting* on the desk in front of him.
But he could hear them faintly and a bit squeaky.

The crucial fact is that sound arrived at his ears from the phones 30 to 50 mS *before" that from the FOH system.
Human ears react more strongly to the first arrival of a sound in preference to a delayed version or "echo".
This allows our brain to locate the direction of the source instantly, it might be a predator sneaking up.

The phenomenon is called the "Hass effect".
I soon figured this out after clearing the desk of any issue.

My customer was initially very reluctant to believe me.
Till he did as told and dropped the headphones on the floor instead.
Whence the false illusion disappeared.

Audio is simple - right ?

....... Phil

On 22/12/2021 5:22 pm, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 21, 2021 at 6:25:08 AM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> working as a repair tech, I often get strange fault reports from customers.
>> Along the lines of my xxxxx is "doing funny things" followed by a condition that sounds impossible to me.
>> Examples:
>>
>> 1. DJ complains that the bass keeps audibly dropping out when he uses the crossfader on his desk. " Please fix crossfader ".
>>
>> 2. The headphone output on a large desk is "leaking into the FOH". The owner insists that when he hits the PFL button on a channel with the fader fully down - signal from the associated mic pops up audibly in the FOH mix.
>>
>> Both these complaints are nonsense - but can you say why?
>>
>
> ** OK - Complaint 1 was dopey.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> DJs like to run 2 turntables and crossfade between them.
> However, before they do that they try to "synch" the beat so the changeover is seamless.
> Most Disco and rave dance music has steady 120 bpm or so rate.
> So, the speed controls of both TTs are tweaked to get a match as heard in their headphones first.
>
> Then they move the crossfader from TT1 to TT2 over a few seconds, while listening to the room speakers.
> On many occasions, with fader around mid position, phase cancellation occurs ( at their listening position) temporarily removing the "thump" from the beat.
>
>
> Complaint 2 is a lot more technical and bizarre.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> My customer was listening to the FOH sound with the headphones turned up loud and *resting* on the desk in front of him.
> But he could hear them faintly and a bit squeaky.
>
> The crucial fact is that sound arrived at his ears from the phones 30 to 50 mS *before" that from the FOH system.
> Human ears react more strongly to the first arrival of a sound in preference to a delayed version or "echo".
> This allows our brain to locate the direction of the source instantly, it might be a predator sneaking up.
>
> The phenomenon is called the "Hass effect".
> I soon figured this out after clearing the desk of any issue.
>
> My customer was initially very reluctant to believe me.
> Till he did as told and dropped the headphones on the floor instead.
> Whence the false illusion disappeared.
>
> Audio is simple - right ?
>
>
> ...... Phil
>

Surprised he hadn't blown his headphones long before ....

geoff

geoff the prick wrote:
============
>
> Surprised he hadn't blown his headphones long before ....
>

** Bet you're surprised whenever poo comes out your arse.

On 22/12/2021 6:12 pm, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> geoff the prick wrote:
> ============
>>
>> Surprised he hadn't blown his headphones long before ....
>>
>
> ** Bet you're surprised whenever poo comes out your arse.

Not surprised when poo comes out your mouth.

geoff