On 27/04/2021 01:59, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:s676ec$2ng$1@dont-email.me...
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:s6638e$f7c$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 23/04/2021 21:19, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:s5ufe7$75r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:s5rr60$bc6$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>> On 21/04/2021 05:29, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:s5nbo5$bo5$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>>> paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris wrote on 20.04.2021 07:13
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My solution doesn't include destroying the Bill of Rights,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I repeat. What *is* your solution?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> First off it's not a problem that can easily be solved.
>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, in the scheme of things, it's not even a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>> Realize that the numbers quoted are bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> People will die by suicides no matter what, for example.
>>>>>>>>>>> Guns or no guns (look at Epstein - he used a sheet didn't he?)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rubbish. Suicide is not inevitable. Guns make it easier for
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> make sudden decisions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Secondly, people will be murdered guns or no guns.
>>>>>>>>>>> For you to claim otherwise is just not logical.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sure. The numbers a single person can kill are significantly
>>>>>>>>>> fewer
>>>>>>>>>> if they don't have guns. Compare the Borough Market attack in
>>>>>>>>>> London
>>>>>>>>>> with the Las Vegas attack. In London three attackers armed with
>>>>>>>>>> knives killed 8 ppl in a highly populated area.  The LV attacker
>>>>>>>>>> armed to the hilt with guns killed
>>>>>>>>>> 60 on his own.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So the number of deaths that matter are those which are purely
>>>>>>>>>>> accidental.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All avoidable deaths matter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bullshit they do when its voluntary suicide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Define "voluntary suicide"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the individual chooses to kill themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Those individuals often don't actually want die
>>>>>
>>>>> Far more often they do wasn’t to die.
>>>>
>>>> ??
>>>
>>> Far more often they do want to die.
>>>
>>>>>> and are simply in desperate situations which they want to get out of.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don’t have to pretend to kill yourself to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Of course you don't, but these people aren't thinking straight.
>>>
>>> You don’t get to decide who arent thinking straight.
>>
>> I'm not. Most suicidal people have clinical diagnoses.
>
> Try that again in english, even google
> translate doesn’t do gobbledegook yet.

That *was* English.

The point is that the majority of suicidal people are known to the
health service due to ongoing medical conditions which range from
anxiety and depression to severe mental illness. All of which
pre-dispose people to suicide often through a brief time of crisis.

>>>> That's why they need help.
>>>
>>> Making them resort to less successful ways of killing themselves
>>> like hanging themselves or poisoning themselves doesn’t help them.
>>
>> Letting people kill themselves does not constitute "help".
>
> Those that have decided to kill themselves don’t need help.
>
>> Even in countries where they allow euthanasia, they don't just hand out
>> guns. It's carefully controlled and requires special legal process.
>
> Its not even illegal in most of the first world now.

Wrong.

> No one has to get some stupid bureaucrat to allow them to kill themselves.

Yes they do.

>>>>>> Without guns many/ attempts are unsuccessful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fuck all who really do want to kill themselves fail to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Evidence?
>>>
>>> The success rate with guns.
>>
>> That's not evidence
>
> Corse it is.

Speak English...

>>>>>> With guns the "success rate" is much higher.
>>>>>
>>>>> So its stupid to make it harder to do an effective job by banning
>>>>> guns.
>>>>
>>>> Rather than help people in need
>>>
>>> You havent established that those who
>>> choose to kill themselves are in need.
>>
>> By definition anyone who is suicidal is in need.
>
> Mindlessly silly with those who have decided that
> they would prefer to be dead than to be alive.

Which is not a rational decision 99% of the time.

>>>> you want to make it easier for them to destroy themselves
>>>
>>> If that what they have chosen to do, yep.
>>>
>>>> and distress their family and friends.
>>>
>>> What matter is what they have chosen to do.
>>>
>>>> How pleasant of you.
>>>
>>> Whereas arseholes like you make it harder for those
>>> who have decided to kill themselves to do that reliably
>>> and effectively and more pleasantly.
>>>
>>>>>> https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's also very little chance of backing out from a gun suicide.
>>>>>> It's quick and easy. Others take time and/or planning which gives
>>>>>> individuals the chance to change their minds.
>>>>>
>>>>> More utterly mindless bullshit with hanging yourself, which is what
>>>>> most
>>>>> do.
>>>
>>>> Hanging is not easier than a gunshot to the head.
>>>
>>> And yet few fail to hang themselves.
>>
>> Wrong.
>
> Nope.
>
>> The research I provided above shows
>> 38.6% of hangings are unsuccessful.
>
> But it hasn’t been established that all of those
> did actually want to hang themselves. Many of
> them were just attention seeking. Just as true
> of those tho pretend that they are about to
> jump off the roof etc.

Correct. Meaning that your assertion is even more wrong. Your position
only makes sense if everyone who's successful genuinely and rationally
wanted to die. You can't guarantee that as it's pretty much impossible
to discern given that the person to ask has blown their brains out.

What we *do know* is that many people who survive regret trying or were
not mentally fit to make a rational decision.

>>> And shooting yourself is a hell of a lot better for others than
>>> jumping in front of a train or jumping off a building etc.
>
>> Less bad, sure.
>
> So its stupid to make it harder to shoot yourself.

"Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:s68sbt$m0n$1@dont-email.me...
> On 27/04/2021 01:59, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:s676ec$2ng$1@dont-email.me...
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:s6638e$f7c$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On 23/04/2021 21:19, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:s5ufe7$75r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:s5rr60$bc6$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>> On 21/04/2021 05:29, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:s5nbo5$bo5$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>>>> paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris wrote on 20.04.2021 07:13
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My solution doesn't include destroying the Bill of Rights,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I repeat. What *is* your solution?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> First off it's not a problem that can easily be solved.
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, in the scheme of things, it's not even a problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Realize that the numbers quoted are bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> People will die by suicides no matter what, for example.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Guns or no guns (look at Epstein - he used a sheet didn't he?)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rubbish. Suicide is not inevitable. Guns make it easier for
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> make sudden decisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Secondly, people will be murdered guns or no guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>> For you to claim otherwise is just not logical.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sure. The numbers a single person can kill are significantly
>>>>>>>>>>> fewer
>>>>>>>>>>> if they don't have guns. Compare the Borough Market attack in
>>>>>>>>>>> London
>>>>>>>>>>> with the Las Vegas attack. In London three attackers armed with
>>>>>>>>>>> knives killed 8 ppl in a highly populated area. The LV attacker
>>>>>>>>>>> armed to the hilt with guns killed
>>>>>>>>>>> 60 on his own.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So the number of deaths that matter are those which are purely
>>>>>>>>>>>> accidental.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All avoidable deaths matter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit they do when its voluntary suicide.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Define "voluntary suicide"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When the individual chooses to kill themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those individuals often don't actually want die
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Far more often they do wasn’t to die.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??
>>>>
>>>> Far more often they do want to die.
>>>>
>>>>>>> and are simply in desperate situations which they want to get out
>>>>>>> of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don’t have to pretend to kill yourself to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course you don't, but these people aren't thinking straight.
>>>>
>>>> You don’t get to decide who arent thinking straight.
>>>
>>> I'm not. Most suicidal people have clinical diagnoses.
>>
>> Try that again in english, even google
>> translate doesn’t do gobbledegook yet.
>
> That *was* English.
>
> The point is that the majority of suicidal people are known to the health
> service due to ongoing medical conditions which range from anxiety and
> depression to severe mental illness.

Easy to claim. Pity it doesn’t explain why the suicide rate in the
USA is much higher than in quite a bit of the rest of the first
world with the exception of a few like Japan where it has always
been much more common than in most of the rest of the first world.

> All of which pre-dispose people to suicide

That all is bullshit.

> often through a brief time of crisis.

And so is that.

>>>>> That's why they need help.
>>>>
>>>> Making them resort to less successful ways of killing themselves
>>>> like hanging themselves or poisoning themselves doesn’t help them.
>>>
>>> Letting people kill themselves does not constitute "help".
>>
>> Those that have decided to kill themselves don’t need help.
>>
>>> Even in countries where they allow euthanasia, they don't just hand out
>>> guns. It's carefully controlled and requires special legal process.
>>
>> Its not even illegal in most of the first world now.
>
> Wrong.

Nope, have fun listing those where its still stupidly illegal.

>> No one has to get some stupid bureaucrat to allow them to kill
>> themselves.
>
> Yes they do.

Bullshit they do.

>>>>>>> Without guns many/ attempts are unsuccessful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fuck all who really do want to kill themselves fail to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>
>>>> The success rate with guns.
>>>
>>> That's not evidence
>>
>> Corse it is.
>
> Speak English...

Pathetic.

>>>>>>> With guns the "success rate" is much higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So its stupid to make it harder to do an effective job by banning
>>>>>> guns.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather than help people in need
>>>>
>>>> You havent established that those who
>>>> choose to kill themselves are in need.
>>>
>>> By definition anyone who is suicidal is in need.
>>
>> Mindlessly silly with those who have decided that
>> they would prefer to be dead than to be alive.
>
> Which is not a rational decision 99% of the time.

That number is straight from your arse, we can tell by the smell.

>>>>> you want to make it easier for them to destroy themselves
>>>>
>>>> If that what they have chosen to do, yep.
>>>>
>>>>> and distress their family and friends.
>>>>
>>>> What matter is what they have chosen to do.
>>>>
>>>>> How pleasant of you.
>>>>
>>>> Whereas arseholes like you make it harder for those
>>>> who have decided to kill themselves to do that reliably
>>>> and effectively and more pleasantly.
>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's also very little chance of backing out from a gun suicide.
>>>>>>> It's quick and easy. Others take time and/or planning which gives
>>>>>>> individuals the chance to change their minds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More utterly mindless bullshit with hanging yourself, which is what
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> do.
>>>>
>>>>> Hanging is not easier than a gunshot to the head.
>>>>
>>>> And yet few fail to hang themselves.
>>>
>>> Wrong.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>> The research I provided above shows
>>> 38.6% of hangings are unsuccessful.
>>
>> But it hasn’t been established that all of those
>> did actually want to hang themselves. Many of
>> them were just attention seeking. Just as true
>> of those tho pretend that they are about to
>> jump off the roof etc.
>
> Correct. Meaning that your assertion is even more wrong.