I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.

https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703

Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).

Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:51:47 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
> I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
> Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
>
> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
>
> Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
> The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
> reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
> one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
>
> Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)

P, wait for Part Two: The Other Human Lineage

Pandora wrote:

> Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)

Wow. It's almost as if when we say it's not a real science we mean it!

If it was a real science, if it wasn't a corrupt social program and the
play thing of a self-imposed elite we wouldn't be here!

You wouldn't be here.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/699952070805028864

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 6:35:13 PM UTC-4, JTEM is so special wrote:

> If it was a real science, we wouldn't be here!

Who is this 'we'? Jermy & MV.

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:51:47 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
> I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
> Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
>
> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
>
> Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
> The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
> reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
> one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
>
> Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)

Does chptr 4 Bipedal Ape focus on arboreal upright bipedalism or on savannah endurance running?

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:31:32 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 9:51:47 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
> > I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
> > Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
> >
> > https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
> >
> > Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
> > The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
> > reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
> > one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
> >
> > Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)
> Does chptr 4 Bipedal Ape focus on arboreal upright bipedalism or on savannah endurance running?
- https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fossils-upend-conventional-wisdom-about-evolution-of-human-bipedalism/
This article in Scientific American on human bipedalism is interesting. Near the end is the section Open Question, I am in agreement with the author's claims.

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

[...]

Oh, I forgot; you're retarded. You are hear misunderstanding &
misrepresenting Aquatic Ape, posting random "Cites" you
never read and couldn't understand anyway...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/700122004150517760

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 1:43:27 AM UTC-4, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> [...]
>
> Oh, I forgot; you're retarded. You are hear misunderstanding &
> misrepresenting Aquatic Ape, posting random "Cites" you
> never read and couldn't understand anyway...
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/700122004150517760

Jermy is from the proud state of Confusion.

People who've mastered breathing through their nose:

"Paleo anthropology is NOT a real science! It's agenda driven,
all about policy and prestige."

Mouth breathers: "Oh yeah how come, um, how come they
misrepresent Aquatic Ape then? If they don't aren't do science
why do they bother pretending that Aquatic Ape hasn't
advanced none in 40 years? Huh? You don't know so WRONG!"

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/699868931586932736

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 4:43:40 PM UTC-5, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> People who've mastered breathing through their nose:
>
> "Paleo anthropology is NOT a real science! It's agenda driven,
> all about policy and prestige."
>
> Mouth breathers: "Oh yeah how come, um, how come they
> misrepresent Aquatic Ape then? If they don't aren't do science
> why do they bother pretending that Aquatic Ape hasn't
> advanced none in 40 years? Huh? You don't know so WRONG!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/699868931586932736

And then there's turtles & jermy, that breathe thru their butts...

Op zaterdag 5 november 2022 om 14:51:47 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:
> I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
> Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
> Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
> The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
> reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
> one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
> Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)

No mentioning of Phillip Tobias?
"we were all profoundly wrong"

On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 05:36:40 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Op zaterdag 5 november 2022 om 14:51:47 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:
>> I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
>> Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
>> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
>> Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
>> The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
>> reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
>> one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
>> Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)
>
>No mentioning of Phillip Tobias?

Of course Tobias is mentioned, for he is well-known for his detailed
description and analysis of such specimens as OH 5 (Paranthropus
boisei) and the Homo habilis material from Olduvai Gorge, in volumes 2
and 4 respectively,
https://www.cambridge.org/9780521105194
https://www.cambridge.org/9780521758864
sources you have never even touched.

"The Human Lineage" 2nd edition by Cartmill and Smith is strongly
oriented toward such hard evidence.

"The robust faces and saggital crests of A. boisei and A. robustus
make them look somewhat ape-like; but their dished, vertical faces,
hypertrophied molars, and reduced front teeth make it clear that these
resemblances are superficial and misleading." (p. 161)

So, not likely ancestors of Gorilla.

>"we were all profoundly wrong"

Actually the quote is: "We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong!"
https://users.ugent.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm

Of course, Tobias was referring to one version of the SH, the one that
"depicted savannas as grasslands", the other one "as seasonal mosaic
environments".
"Research has shown that the former is no longer tenable, but an
increasing amount of paleoecological information provides compelling
support for the latter. Here a critical review of the available
paleoecological evidence is presented, and it is concluded that the
savanna hypothesis not only has not been falsified but its heuristics
are stronger than ever before."
https://sci-hub.se/10.1086/674530

See also:
https://doi.org/10.1017/9781139696470

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> And then there's turtles

Why are you here? You demonstrate ZERO interest in these topics, you
post random, irrelevant "cites" you never read and couldn't understand
anyway AND you engage in infantile behavior.

Go away.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/700232356642144256

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 12:58:38 PM UTC-5, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > And then there's turtles
> Why are you here? You demonstrate ZERO interest in these topics, you
> post random, irrelevant "cites" you never read and couldn't understand
> anyway AND you engage in infantile behavior.
>
> Go away.
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/700232356642144256
Hold your breath yurtle.

Op maandag 7 november 2022 om 18:17:59 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:

> >> I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
> >> Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
> >> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
> >> Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
> >> The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
> >> reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
> >> one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
> >> Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)

> >No mentioning of Phillip Tobias?

> Of course Tobias is mentioned, for he is well-known for his detailed
> description and analysis of such specimens as OH 5 (Paranthropus
> boisei) and the Homo habilis material from Olduvai Gorge, in volumes 2
> and 4 respectively,
> https://www.cambridge.org/9780521105194
> https://www.cambridge.org/9780521758864
> sources you have never even touched.

:-DDD

I have met Tobias a few times, my little boy or girl.
Why don't you grow up instead of writing ridiculous nonsense??

Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 00:31:56 UTC+1 schreef littor...@gmail.com:

> I have met Tobias a few times

One of the luckiest moments in my life when I was waiting for a lecture in the symposium organized by prof.Vaneechoutte in Ghent (see below):
I had written a few articles (see below) arguing that apiths were fossil relatives of Pan & Gorilla rather than of Homo, when prof.Tobias entered the room.
He came straight to me.
I was very very afraid he was going to reproach me to have said "his" fossils (Taung etc.) were fossil bonobos or chimps rather than "hominins",
but he opened his arms & embraced me... :-)

Report of the symposium 'Water and Human Evolution'
Mario Vaneechoutte (Univ.Gent)
2000 Hum.Evol.15:243-251

Anthropologists have found lots of fossil orangs & lots of fossil hominoids, but virtually no fossil relatives of Pan or Gorilla:
they assumed anthropocentrically that all African hominids were "hominins" (i.e. closer relatives of us than of P or G).
This is statistically impossible, of course.
Simple comparisons show indeed that the humanlike traits of apiths were no human innovations, but simply left-overs of the hominid LCA (Pan-Homo-Gorilla),
e.g.
1994 Hum.Evol.9:121-139 "Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes?"
1996 Hum.Evol.11:35-41 "Morphological distance between australopithecine, human and ape skulls"
1998 in MA Raath cs eds :128-9 "Australopithecine ancestors of African apes?"

Only incredible imbeciles still believe that
- their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes,
- apiths are human ancestors.

On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 15:31:55 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Op maandag 7 november 2022 om 18:17:59 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:
>
>
>> >> I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
>> >> Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
>> >> https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
>> >> Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
>> >> The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
>> >> reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
>> >> one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
>> >> Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)
>
>> >No mentioning of Phillip Tobias?
>
>> Of course Tobias is mentioned, for he is well-known for his detailed
>> description and analysis of such specimens as OH 5 (Paranthropus
>> boisei) and the Homo habilis material from Olduvai Gorge, in volumes 2
>> and 4 respectively,
>> https://www.cambridge.org/9780521105194
>> https://www.cambridge.org/9780521758864
>> sources you have never even touched.
>
>:-DDD
>
>I have met Tobias a few times, my little boy or girl.

And did you, on such occasions, also meet 'Nutcracker Man' (OH 5),
'Jonny's Child' (OH 7), 'Cinderella' (OH 13), 'George' (OH 16), and
'Twiggy' (OH 24)?

>Why don't you grow up instead of writing ridiculous nonsense??

To have met Tobias is not the same as to have studied his work.
1000 pages of description and comparative analysis does not magically
flow through a handshake, and cannot be shared in all its detail in a
half hour presentation at a conference.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 04:15:23 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 00:31:56 UTC+1 schreef littor...@gmail.com:
>
>
>> I have met Tobias a few times
>
>One of the luckiest moments in my life when I was waiting for a lecture in the symposium organized by prof.Vaneechoutte in Ghent (see below):
>I had written a few articles (see below) arguing that apiths were fossil relatives of Pan & Gorilla rather than of Homo, when prof.Tobias entered the room.
>He came straight to me.
>I was very very afraid he was going to reproach me to have said "his" fossils (Taung etc.) were fossil bonobos or chimps rather than "hominins",
>but he opened his arms & embraced me... :-)

Yeah, he was a nice guy.

>Report of the symposium 'Water and Human Evolution'
>Mario Vaneechoutte (Univ.Gent)
>2000 Hum.Evol.15:243-251
>
>
>Anthropologists have found lots of fossil orangs & lots of fossil hominoids, but virtually no fossil relatives of Pan or Gorilla:
>they assumed anthropocentrically that all African hominids were "hominins" (i.e. closer relatives of us than of P or G).
>This is statistically impossible, of course.
>Simple comparisons show indeed that the humanlike traits of apiths were no human innovations, but simply left-overs of the hominid LCA (Pan-Homo-Gorilla),
>e.g.
>1994 Hum.Evol.9:121-139 "Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes?"
>1996 Hum.Evol.11:35-41 "Morphological distance between australopithecine, human and ape skulls"
>1998 in MA Raath cs eds :128-9 "Australopithecine ancestors of African apes?"

Simple comparisons indeed, therefore superficial and misleading.
Every serious phylogenetic analysis of the last twenty years, with
extant hominoids as ingroup, using multiple fossil taxa, based on
multiple specimens, using multiple characters, have never supported
the inclusion of any australopithecine in a clade with Pan or Gorilla.
Therefore, the hypothesis that australopithecines are ancestors of the
African apes can be confidently rejected.

See, for example:
https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.jhevol.2004.08.008

https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.jhevol.2019.03.006

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:15:24 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 00:31:56 UTC+1 schreef littor...@gmail.com:
> > I have met Tobias a few times
> One of the luckiest moments in my life when I was waiting for a lecture in the symposium organized by prof.Vaneechoutte in Ghent (see below):
> I had written a few articles (see below) arguing that apiths were fossil relatives of Pan & Gorilla rather than of Homo, when prof.Tobias entered the room.
> He came straight to me.
> I was very very afraid he was going to reproach me to have said "his" fossils (Taung etc.) were fossil bonobos or chimps rather than "hominins",
> but he opened his arms & embraced me... :-)

You stood in for Elaine.

> Report of the symposium 'Water and Human Evolution'
> Mario Vaneechoutte (Univ.Gent)
> 2000 Hum.Evol.15:243-251
>
>
> Anthropologists have found lots of fossil orangs & lots of fossil hominoids, but virtually no fossil relatives of Pan or

Gibbons, meine kleine tochter. 8ma China.
Danuvius, meine kleine tochter. 11ma Bavaria.

Gorilla:
> they assumed anthropocentrically that all African hominids were "hominins" (i.e. closer relatives of us than of P or G).
> This is statistically impossible, of course.
> Simple comparisons show indeed that the humanlike traits of apiths were no human innovations, but simply left-overs of the hominid LCA (Pan-Homo-Gorilla),
> e.g.
> 1994 Hum.Evol.9:121-139 "Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes?"
> 1996 Hum.Evol.11:35-41 "Morphological distance between australopithecine, human and ape skulls"
> 1998 in MA Raath cs eds :128-9 "Australopithecine ancestors of African apes?"
>
>
> Only incredible imbeciles still believe that
> - their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes,
> - apiths are human ancestors.

Some netloon:

> And did you, on such occasions, also meet 'Nutcracker Man' (OH 5),
> 'Jonny's Child' (OH 7), 'Cinderella' (OH 13), 'George' (OH 16), and
> 'Twiggy' (OH 24)?

:-DDD

My little child, why don't you inform a *little* bit before talking such nonsense:
a few of my publications on these fossils:

1985 Med Hypoth 16:17-32 "The aquatic ape theory: evidence and a possible scenario"
1986 E Morgan, -- New Scient 1498:62-63 "In the beginning was the water"
1986 Marswin 7:64-69 "Een korte inleiding tot de waterapentheorie"
1987 Nature 325:305-6 "Origin of hominid bipedalism"
1987 Marswin 8:142-151 "Vertonen de fossiele hominiden tekens van wateraanpassing?"
1990 Hum Evol 5:295-7 "African ape ancestry"
1991 Med Hypoth 35:108-114 "Aquatic ape theory and fossil hominids"
1991 in M Roede cs eds :75-112 "Aquatic features in fossil hominids?"
1992 Hum Evol 7:63-64 "Did robust australopithecines partly feed on hard parts of Gramineae?"
1992 Language Origins Society Forum 15:17-18 "KNM-ER 1470 and KNM-ER 1805 endocasts"
1993 Nutr Health 9:165-191 "Aquatic versus savanna: comparative and paleo-environmental evidence"
1994 Hum Evol 9:121-139 "Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes?"
1996 Hum Evol 11:35-41 "Morphological distance between australopithecine, human and ape skulls"
1997 Hadewijch Antwerp 220pp "In den Beginne was het Water – Nieuwste Inzichten in de Evolutie van de Mens"
1997 R Bender, --, N Oser Anthropol Anz 55:1-14 "Der Erwerb menschlicher Bipedie aus der Sicht der Aquatic Ape Theory"
1997 New Scient 2091:53 "Sweaty humans"
1998 in MA Raath cs eds :128-9 "Australopithecine ancestors of African apes?"
1998 --, P-F Puech ib.:47 "Wetland apes: hominid palaeo-environment and diet"
1999 --, N McPhail, S Munro ESS Newsletter 50:4-12 "Bipedalism in chimpanzee and gorilla forebears"
1999 --, S Munro Water & Human Evolution Symposium Univ Gent :11-23 "Australopiths wading? Homo diving?"
2000 --, P-F Puech Hum Evol 15:175-186 "Hominid lifestyle and diet reconsidered: paleo-environmental and comparative data"
2002 --, P-F Puech, S Munro Trends Ecol Evol 17:212-7 "Aquarboreal ancestors?"
2007 --, S Munro in SI Muñoz ed.:1-4 "New directions in palaeoanthropology"
2011 --, S Munro, P-F Puech, M Vaneechoutte ib.:67-81 "Early Hominoids: orthograde aquarboreals in flooded forests?"
2013 Hum Evol 28:237-266 "The aquatic ape evolves: common misconceptions and unproven assumptions about the so-called Aquatic Ape Hypothesis"

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 5:56:45 PM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some netloon:
> > And did you, on such occasions, also meet 'Nutcracker Man' (OH 5),
> > 'Jonny's Child' (OH 7), 'Cinderella' (OH 13), 'George' (OH 16), and
> > 'Twiggy' (OH 24)?
> :-DDD
>
> My little child, why don't you inform a *little* bit before talking such nonsense:
> a few of my publications on these fossils:
>
> 1985 Med Hypoth 16:17-32 "The aquatic ape theory: evidence and a possible scenario"
> 1986 E Morgan, -- New Scient 1498:62-63 "In the beginning was the water"
> 1986 Marswin 7:64-69 "Een korte inleiding tot de waterapentheorie"
> 1987 Nature 325:305-6 "Origin of hominid bipedalism"
> 1987 Marswin 8:142-151 "Vertonen de fossiele hominiden tekens van wateraanpassing?"
> 1990 Hum Evol 5:295-7 "African ape ancestry"
> 1991 Med Hypoth 35:108-114 "Aquatic ape theory and fossil hominids"
> 1991 in M Roede cs eds :75-112 "Aquatic features in fossil hominids?"
> 1992 Hum Evol 7:63-64 "Did robust australopithecines partly feed on hard parts of Gramineae?"
> 1992 Language Origins Society Forum 15:17-18 "KNM-ER 1470 and KNM-ER 1805 endocasts"
> 1993 Nutr Health 9:165-191 "Aquatic versus savanna: comparative and paleo-environmental evidence"
> 1994 Hum Evol 9:121-139 "Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes?"
> 1996 Hum Evol 11:35-41 "Morphological distance between australopithecine, human and ape skulls"
> 1997 Hadewijch Antwerp 220pp "In den Beginne was het Water – Nieuwste Inzichten in de Evolutie van de Mens"
> 1997 R Bender, --, N Oser Anthropol Anz 55:1-14 "Der Erwerb menschlicher Bipedie aus der Sicht der Aquatic Ape Theory"
> 1997 New Scient 2091:53 "Sweaty humans"
> 1998 in MA Raath cs eds :128-9 "Australopithecine ancestors of African apes?"
> 1998 --, P-F Puech ib.:47 "Wetland apes: hominid palaeo-environment and diet"
> 1999 --, N McPhail, S Munro ESS Newsletter 50:4-12 "Bipedalism in chimpanzee and gorilla forebears"
> 1999 --, S Munro Water & Human Evolution Symposium Univ Gent :11-23 "Australopiths wading? Homo diving?"
> 2000 --, P-F Puech Hum Evol 15:175-186 "Hominid lifestyle and diet reconsidered: paleo-environmental and comparative data"
> 2002 --, P-F Puech, S Munro Trends Ecol Evol 17:212-7 "Aquarboreal ancestors?"
> 2007 --, S Munro in SI Muñoz ed.:1-4 "New directions in palaeoanthropology"
> 2011 --, S Munro, P-F Puech, M Vaneechoutte ib.:67-81 "Early Hominoids: orthograde aquarboreals in flooded forests?"
> 2013 Hum Evol 28:237-266 "The aquatic ape evolves: common misconceptions and unproven assumptions about the so-called Aquatic Ape Hypothesis"

Diagnosis: Verbal diarrhea in extremis.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:36:42 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zaterdag 5 november 2022 om 14:51:47 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:
> > I just received a copy of the second edition of "The Human Lineage" by
> > Matt Cartmill and Fred Smith.
> > https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Human+Lineage%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781119086703
> > Such a textbook should be representative of the field, right?
> > The reference section is over 100 pages long, but not a single
> > reference to Hardy, Vaneechoutte, Kuliukas, Verhaegen, etc., and only
> > one to Elaine Morgan (1982, The Aquatic Ape).
> > Where's the paradigm shift?! ;-)
> No mentioning of Phillip Tobias?
> "we were all profoundly wrong"
Admitting you were wrong is just the first step.

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 14:56:44 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Some netloon:
>
>> And did you, on such occasions, also meet 'Nutcracker Man' (OH 5),
>> 'Jonny's Child' (OH 7), 'Cinderella' (OH 13), 'George' (OH 16), and
>> 'Twiggy' (OH 24)?
>
>:-DDD
>
>My little child, why don't you inform a *little* bit before talking such nonsense:
>a few of my publications on these fossils:
>
>1985 Med Hypoth 16:17-32 "The aquatic ape theory: evidence and a possible scenario"
>1986 E Morgan, -- New Scient 1498:62-63 "In the beginning was the water"
>1986 Marswin 7:64-69 "Een korte inleiding tot de waterapentheorie"
>1987 Nature 325:305-6 "Origin of hominid bipedalism"
>1987 Marswin 8:142-151 "Vertonen de fossiele hominiden tekens van wateraanpassing?"
>1990 Hum Evol 5:295-7 "African ape ancestry"
>1991 Med Hypoth 35:108-114 "Aquatic ape theory and fossil hominids"
>1991 in M Roede cs eds :75-112 "Aquatic features in fossil hominids?"
>1992 Hum Evol 7:63-64 "Did robust australopithecines partly feed on hard parts of Gramineae?"
>1992 Language Origins Society Forum 15:17-18 "KNM-ER 1470 and KNM-ER 1805 endocasts"
>1993 Nutr Health 9:165-191 "Aquatic versus savanna: comparative and paleo-environmental evidence"
>1994 Hum Evol 9:121-139 "Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes?"
>1996 Hum Evol 11:35-41 "Morphological distance between australopithecine, human and ape skulls"
>1997 Hadewijch Antwerp 220pp "In den Beginne was het Water – Nieuwste Inzichten in de Evolutie van de Mens"
>1997 R Bender, --, N Oser Anthropol Anz 55:1-14 "Der Erwerb menschlicher Bipedie aus der Sicht der Aquatic Ape Theory"
>1997 New Scient 2091:53 "Sweaty humans"
>1998 in MA Raath cs eds :128-9 "Australopithecine ancestors of African apes?"
>1998 --, P-F Puech ib.:47 "Wetland apes: hominid palaeo-environment and diet"
>1999 --, N McPhail, S Munro ESS Newsletter 50:4-12 "Bipedalism in chimpanzee and gorilla forebears"
>1999 --, S Munro Water & Human Evolution Symposium Univ Gent :11-23 "Australopiths wading? Homo diving?"
>2000 --, P-F Puech Hum Evol 15:175-186 "Hominid lifestyle and diet reconsidered: paleo-environmental and comparative data"
>2002 --, P-F Puech, S Munro Trends Ecol Evol 17:212-7 "Aquarboreal ancestors?"
>2007 --, S Munro in SI Muñoz ed.:1-4 "New directions in palaeoanthropology"
>2011 --, S Munro, P-F Puech, M Vaneechoutte ib.:67-81 "Early Hominoids: orthograde aquarboreals in flooded forests?"
>2013 Hum Evol 28:237-266 "The aquatic ape evolves: common misconceptions and unproven assumptions about the so-called Aquatic Ape Hypothesis"

None of those papers lists the following in the reference section:

Tobias, P. (1967) Olduvai Gorge, Volume 2: The Cranium and Maxillary
Dentition of Australopithecus (Zinjanthropus) boisei. Cambridge:
Cambridge University Press.

Tobias, P. (1991) Olduvai Gorge, Volume 4: The Skulls, Endocasts and
Teeth of Homo habilis. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

So, you didn't even study Tobias' magnum opus?
Well, then you can't really claim to know these fossils.