On 26/04/2021 22.55, paul wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote on 26.04.2021 08:20
>
>> I thought like you in the past. Keep phone contacts in the SIM.
>> Then I lost a phone and its contacts when I took a swim in the sea...
>
> I thought like that also but the SIM doesn't store as much as the phone
> contacts database will does (either in size or in amount of detail per
> contact).
>
> So storing in the SIM card doesn't work well.
> Storing on the phone works well.

That's true.

So there is the phone, the SIM, and google contacts. Three places.

And you are right, I think the contacts I lost were in the phone itself,
the SIM I think it survived (it was long ago, I don't remember all details).

But if I create a new contact, the app I have doesn't ask where to save
it. It has no option to choose where.

> All the apps that need contacts use the database stored on the phone.
> Even apps that aren't supposed to need contacts probably (malware).
>
> It's best to store the contacts on the phone in the default contacts db.
> The OP's question I think is how to keep THAT out of Google's paws.
>
> I'm not sure how but NOT syncing your contacts to Google should help.

Nope. They would still be stored on google, albeit locally. You forget
and one day it syncs. It is designed for that use.

>
> For backup, there's nothing stopping you from exporting contacts to a file.
> That file can be encrypted if you like and stored on the cloud if you like.

I'm not sure that the local google contact list can be exported to file
on the phone, or has to be synced first.

Heck, I haven't bothered to save the list on file for years. Google does
a good job making things easy if you don't fight the system.

> That way the OP's phone contacts are backed up & STILL out of Google's paws.

To make sure you have to use the phone database, not the google
database. Even better, not use an Android phone if you don't like Google
to know things...

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| Heck, I haven't bothered to save the list on file for years. Google does
| a good job making things easy if you don't fight the system.
|

I think you might be old fashioned again. Why store other
peoples' personal info with a spyware company when you
can make your friends and family manage your contact list
themselves? I recently got an email from my nephew, asking
me to please log in to mailbook.app and enter my info into
his address book, so that he can send me a wedding invitation.
At this point I'm not sure if my nephew is a human or a spambot.

I wrote back and asked him to please not enter my personal
info in his online list. He responded that it's OK, because
mailbook.app is European. :) The Millennials are addicted to social
media. But the Gen-Zers don't even have a reference point of
non-social-media. Scary stuff.

Me, I'm still using my penta-digit computer, writing such
info in my 5"x7" notebook. I also keep a backup on disk, just in
case.

Carlos E.R. wrote on 27.04.2021 08:36

> So there is the phone, the SIM, and google contacts. Three places.

I wouldn't think of it that way but I understand why you (and most) might.

The way I think of it is there is the SIM and the sqlite db on the phone.
All your contacts/dialer/text apps simply READ "those".... hmmmmmm......

When I typed "those" I realized I don't know which apps read the SIM.
Do you know which apps read the SIM card contacts? I hadn't thought of it.

I think some of the duplicate cleaners read the SIM contact too.
Don't they?

Anyway most apps that use your contacts do read the sqlite db on the phone.

Once they read the sqlite db then they can store the results anywhere else.
Which in Google terminology, I think, is called "sync" but I'm not sure.

But more than just Google apps can read and write to the sqlite database.

> And you are right, I think the contacts I lost were in the phone itself,
> the SIM I think it survived (it was long ago, I don't remember all details).
>
> But if I create a new contact, the app I have doesn't ask where to save
> it. It has no option to choose where.

There are many contacts/phone/sms/dialer apps which read from the phone.
There are some that write to the phone (AFAIK).

Some of those that read/write to/from the phone can import/export the whole
db and there are also lots of contact cleaning apps (eg duplicate cleaners).

Once you can import/export the phone's contacts you are free to archive that
file anywhere you like, including on the Google servers (or even iCloud).
>> All the apps that need contacts use the database stored on the phone.
>> Even apps that aren't supposed to need contacts probably (malware).
>>
>> It's best to store the contacts on the phone in the default contacts db.
>> The OP's question I think is how to keep THAT out of Google's paws.
>>
>> I'm not sure how but NOT syncing your contacts to Google should help.
>
> Nope. They would still be stored on google, albeit locally. You forget
> and one day it syncs. It is designed for that use.

Oooooooh. I get it. I think.
Are you use the term "google" as a term for the contacts app?
Or maybe the dialer?
Or the texting app?

Because if you search "where are contacts stored on Android" the correct
answer is in the sqlite database (which is located in the root filesystem).

>> For backup, there's nothing stopping you from exporting contacts to a file.
>> That file can be encrypted if you like and stored on the cloud if you like.
>
> I'm not sure that the local google contact list can be exported to file
> on the phone, or has to be synced first.

You keep using this term "google contact list" but you have contacts even on
a phone that doesn't have a google account set up. You don't need google.

Can you give me a reference on the net for what you call this "google
contact list" so that I can better understand why you call it that?

> Heck, I haven't bothered to save the list on file for years. Google does
> a good job making things easy if you don't fight the system.

I'm not saying Google doesn't do a good job syncing contacts for those
people who set up their phone with a Google account to do that.

But the OP didn't want his contacts database synced to Google servers.
There are many solutions to the OP's problem I think.

One is to turn off sync.
The other is to manage his phone contacts away from the Google servers.
>> That way the OP's phone contacts are backed up & STILL out of Google's paws.
>
> To make sure you have to use the phone database, not the google
> database. Even better, not use an Android phone if you don't like Google
> to know things...

That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The simple solution for the OP to keep his email contacts separate from his
phone contacts is, as far as I know, to turn off the Google sync on his
phone.

If he wants to back up his contacts he can export them to a file.
If he wants to import his contacts he can import them to a file.

I'm just trying to help answer the OP's questions.

Mayayana wrote on 27.04.2021 13:38

> Why store other
> peoples' personal info with a spyware company when you
> can make your friends and family manage your contact list
> themselves?

Mayayana is saying exactly what irks me about the rudeness of other people.

Why do most people (not Mayayana and not me) put all their friends,
neighbor's, their kids, their kid's friends, their relatives - everyone - on
the net just because they are too lazy to bother to protect their privacy?

It's the same with people uploading everyone's access point to the net.
*Who is that rude to not care about protecting _other_ people's data?*

> I recently got an email from my nephew, asking
> me to please log in to mailbook.app and enter my info into
> his address book, so that he can send me a wedding invitation.
> At this point I'm not sure if my nephew is a human or a spambot.

I get the same thing.
I have to create an account on some web site just to accept an invite.
I call them up and respond by phone instead.

> I wrote back and asked him to please not enter my personal
> info in his online list. He responded that it's OK, because
> mailbook.app is European. :) The Millennials are addicted to social
> media. But the Gen-Zers don't even have a reference point of
> non-social-media. Scary stuff.

A lot of people don't know what you and I know about privacy.

> Me, I'm still using my penta-digit computer, writing such
> info in my 5"x7" notebook. I also keep a backup on disk, just in
> case.

Me, I'm using a non-Google contacts app, a non-Google dialer (which isn't
really needed anymore), a non-Google texting app, and a non-Google MUA.

They work just as well (or better) than do the Google apps.
The contacts app has an import/export for backup/restore of contacts.

Every once in a while I clean up the mess using Excel on the PC.

But to your point, I am not so rude as to upload my contacts to Google.
Nor am I so rude as to upload every access point I see to Google.

I'm nice to other people.
Like you are.

Am 27.04.21 um 14:42 schrieb paul:
> Mayayana wrote on 27.04.2021 13:38
>
>> Why store other
>> peoples' personal info with a spyware company when you
>> can make your friends and family manage your contact list
>> themselves?
>
> Mayayana is saying exactly what irks me about the rudeness of other people.
>
> Why do most people (not Mayayana and not me) put all their friends,
> neighbor's, their kids, their kid's friends, their relatives - everyone - on
> the net just because they are too lazy to bother to protect their privacy?
>
> It's the same with people uploading everyone's access point to the net.
> *Who is that rude to not care about protecting _other_ people's data?*
>
>> I recently got an email from my nephew, asking
>> me to please log in to mailbook.app and enter my info into
>> his address book, so that he can send me a wedding invitation.
>> At this point I'm not sure if my nephew is a human or a spambot.
>
> I get the same thing.
> I have to create an account on some web site just to accept an invite.
> I call them up and respond by phone instead.
>
>> I wrote back and asked him to please not enter my personal
>> info in his online list. He responded that it's OK, because
>> mailbook.app is European. :) The Millennials are addicted to social
>> media. But the Gen-Zers don't even have a reference point of
>> non-social-media. Scary stuff.
>
> A lot of people don't know what you and I know about privacy.

Sorry, but you do not have really a clue about privacy and the use of
today's technolgy responsibly. Most of what you write here are prejudices.

If you want to do something for your privacy switch to another
OS-provider. You can easyly use the cloud for contacts and the like in
case the data is end-to-end encrypted.

Digital natives do not use one single device they have usually half a
dozen and they want the data available on all devices at the same time.

On 27/04/2021 13.38, Mayayana wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | Heck, I haven't bothered to save the list on file for years. Google does
> | a good job making things easy if you don't fight the system.
> |
>
> I think you might be old fashioned again. Why store other
> peoples' personal info with a spyware company when you
> can make your friends and family manage your contact list
> themselves?

Why would I not, when I know that they are doing the same thing as me?

> I recently got an email from my nephew, asking
> me to please log in to mailbook.app and enter my info into
> his address book, so that he can send me a wedding invitation.
> At this point I'm not sure if my nephew is a human or a spambot.

Sounds familiar. means I have heard of this, but i don't know what is
mailbook.app

> I wrote back and asked him to please not enter my personal
> info in his online list. He responded that it's OK, because
> mailbook.app is European. :) The Millennials are addicted to social
> media. But the Gen-Zers don't even have a reference point of
> non-social-media. Scary stuff.
>
> Me, I'm still using my penta-digit computer, writing such
> info in my 5"x7" notebook. I also keep a backup on disk, just in
> case.
>
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 27.04.2021 21:58

> Sorry, but you do not have really a clue about privacy and the use of
> today's technolgy responsibly. Most of what you write here are prejudices.

All hackers know iOS/macOS is inherently insecure; you don't.
You can't even patch most Apple devices because of the built in flaws.

There are so many security holes in macOS & iOS it's "mind blowing"
Here is just the most recent of so many they can't be counted easily.

macOS
https://techosmo.com/wired/hackers-used-mind-blowing-bug-to-sneak-past-macos-safeguards/

iOS
https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/26/apple-says-ios-14-4-fixes-three-security-bugs-under-active-attack/

You don't know ANY of this because Apple doesn't advertise the truth.
All you know is the immense advertising bullshit Apple tells you to believe.
> If you want to do something for your privacy switch to another
> OS-provider. You can easyly use the cloud for contacts and the like in
> case the data is end-to-end encrypted.

Name a cloud provider who does NOT scan all your uploads unencrypted.
> Digital natives do not use one single device they have usually half a
> dozen and they want the data available on all devices at the same time.

If you're intelligent you can EASILY share data on all devices WITHOUT
sharing that same data with your cloud provider (see question above).

Am 28.04.21 um 01:01 schrieb paul:
> If you're intelligent you can EASILY share data on all devices WITHOUT
> sharing that same data with your cloud provider (see question above).

QED

In article <s6a53l$1npn$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

> There are so many security holes in macOS & iOS it's "mind blowing"

not as mind blowing as what exists in other operating systems.

nothing is perfect.

> Name a cloud provider who does NOT scan all your uploads unencrypted.

all of them when the user encrypts before uploading.

quite a few of them when the user does not.

> > Digital natives do not use one single device they have usually half a
> > dozen and they want the data available on all devices at the same time.
>
> If you're intelligent you can EASILY share data on all devices WITHOUT
> sharing that same data with your cloud provider (see question above).

that disqualifies you.

Am 28.04.21 um 01:01 schrieb paul:
> Joerg Lorenz wrote on 27.04.2021 21:58
>
>> Sorry, but you do not have really a clue about privacy and the use of
>> today's technolgy responsibly. Most of what you write here are prejudices.
>
> All hackers know iOS/macOS is inherently insecure; you don't.
> You can't even patch most Apple devices because of the built in flaws.

nospam@nospam.invalid

This flawed and invalid mailaddress as well as the use of an anonymous
(troll)newsserver says almost everything about you and your lack of
knowledge. You are just a Troll.

*PLONK*

Am 28.04.21 um 01:08 schrieb nospam:
> In article <s6a53l$1npn$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> There are so many security holes in macOS & iOS it's "mind blowing"
>
> not as mind blowing as what exists in other operating systems.
>
> nothing is perfect.
>
>
>
>> Name a cloud provider who does NOT scan all your uploads unencrypted.
>
> all of them when the user encrypts before uploading.
>
> quite a few of them when the user does not.
>
>>> Digital natives do not use one single device they have usually half a
>>> dozen and they want the data available on all devices at the same time.
>>
>> If you're intelligent you can EASILY share data on all devices WITHOUT
>> sharing that same data with your cloud provider (see question above).
>
> that disqualifies you.

+1 and SIC.

On 27/04/2021 14.33, paul wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote on 27.04.2021 08:36
>
>> So there is the phone, the SIM, and google contacts. Three places.
>
> I wouldn't think of it that way but I understand why you (and most) might.
>
> The way I think of it is there is the SIM and the sqlite db on the phone.
> All your contacts/dialer/text apps simply READ "those".... hmmmmmm......
>
> When I typed "those" I realized I don't know which apps read the SIM.
> Do you know which apps read the SIM card contacts? I hadn't thought of it.

On an Android phone? No, I do no longer know.

>
> I think some of the duplicate cleaners read the SIM contact too.
> Don't they?

Possibly, yes.

> Anyway most apps that use your contacts do read the sqlite db on the phone.

No. They read the Google contact list. On an Android phone, the default
is read (and write) the Google contact list. And we are talking of
Android phones, as we are in comp.mobile.android

The Google contact list has, of course, a local copy which is what is
normally used and is synced periodically.

> Once they read the sqlite db then they can store the results anywhere else.
> Which in Google terminology, I think, is called "sync" but I'm not sure.
>
> But more than just Google apps can read and write to the sqlite database.
>
>> And you are right, I think the contacts I lost were in the phone itself,
>> the SIM I think it survived (it was long ago, I don't remember all details).
>>
>> But if I create a new contact, the app I have doesn't ask where to save
>> it. It has no option to choose where.
>
> There are many contacts/phone/sms/dialer apps which read from the phone.
> There are some that write to the phone (AFAIK).
>
> Some of those that read/write to/from the phone can import/export the whole
> db and there are also lots of contact cleaning apps (eg duplicate cleaners).
>
> Once you can import/export the phone's contacts you are free to archive that
> file anywhere you like, including on the Google servers (or even iCloud).
>
>>> All the apps that need contacts use the database stored on the phone.
>>> Even apps that aren't supposed to need contacts probably (malware).
>>>
>>> It's best to store the contacts on the phone in the default contacts db.
>>> The OP's question I think is how to keep THAT out of Google's paws.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how but NOT syncing your contacts to Google should help.
>>
>> Nope. They would still be stored on google, albeit locally. You forget
>> and one day it syncs. It is designed for that use.
>
> Oooooooh. I get it. I think.
> Are you use the term "google" as a term for the contacts app?
> Or maybe the dialer?
> Or the texting app?

Everything... An Android phone is a Google phone. Everything is stored
locally, and synced periodically on Google servers. You can choose what
is synced and what not, but... mistakes are possible.

>
> Because if you search "where are contacts stored on Android" the correct
> answer is in the sqlite database (which is located in the root filesystem).

Well, ok. But this is different from some phones that have a contact
application and list that is fully separate from the Android/Google
system. I Samsung has/had this. The list could be uploaded to a
different "cloud" on Samsung servers. I'm not sure of this anymore.

>
>>> For backup, there's nothing stopping you from exporting contacts to a file.
>>> That file can be encrypted if you like and stored on the cloud if you like.
>>
>> I'm not sure that the local google contact list can be exported to file
>> on the phone, or has to be synced first.
>
> You keep using this term "google contact list" but you have contacts even on
> a phone that doesn't have a google account set up. You don't need google.

This is rare. On an Android phone, this is rare.

>
> Can you give me a reference on the net for what you call this "google
> contact list" so that I can better understand why you call it that?

No, I don't have references.

If on the phone I tap on "Play Store" (full name is Google Play Store"),
then go to "my apps" (I'm translating from Spanish, so actual name could
be different), then on "installed" tab, I get a list of the installed
apps. One of them is "Contacts", written by "Google LLC". Thus the full
name of the app is "Google Contacts".

This one:

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.contacts>

>> Heck, I haven't bothered to save the list on file for years. Google does
>> a good job making things easy if you don't fight the system.
>
> I'm not saying Google doesn't do a good job syncing contacts for those
> people who set up their phone with a Google account to do that.
>
> But the OP didn't want his contacts database synced to Google servers.
> There are many solutions to the OP's problem I think.
>
> One is to turn off sync.
> The other is to manage his phone contacts away from the Google servers.

The best is not to use an Android phone.

>>> That way the OP's phone contacts are backed up & STILL out of Google's paws.
>>
>> To make sure you have to use the phone database, not the google
>> database. Even better, not use an Android phone if you don't like Google
>> to know things...
>
> That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
>
> The simple solution for the OP to keep his email contacts separate from his
> phone contacts is, as far as I know, to turn off the Google sync on his
> phone.

Eventually, this will fail, unless the phone doesn't have a google account.

> If he wants to back up his contacts he can export them to a file.
> If he wants to import his contacts he can import them to a file.
>
> I'm just trying to help answer the OP's questions.

Of course, so do we all :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

nospam wrote on 27.04.2021 20:38

>> There are so many security holes in macOS & iOS it's "mind blowing"
>
> not as mind blowing as what exists in other operating systems.

When security bugs are found on Windows like the recent *massive* bugs in
macOS - nobody brings up Apple to atone for these *massive* Apple OS bugs.

Only you Apple people do that when *massive* bugs are found on Apple stuff

All Your Macs Are Belong To Us
https://objective-see.com/blog/blog_0x64.html
"This bug trivially bypasses many core Apple security mechanisms"

> nothing is perfect.

Google & Microsoft don't highly advertise their security like Apple does.
So when Apple has *massive* bugs that are long exploited - it's instructive.

These *massive* bugs in Apple security have been going on for decades.

There's a *Massive* Security Vulnerability in the New macOS
https://gizmodo.com/theres-a-massive-security-vulnerability-in-the-new-maco-1820810018

>> Name a cloud provider who does NOT scan all your uploads unencrypted.
>
> all of them when the user encrypts before uploading.

Of course.

You know that - I know that - but Joerg Lorenz doesn't appear to know that.

Joerg Lorenz is apparently technically unqualified to understand that little
twist you just added about adding encryption BEFORE uploading to the cloud.

> quite a few of them when the user does not.

You know that - I know that - but Joerg Lorenz doesn't appear to know that.

My prior response was to Joerg Lorenz who is not technically qualified to
post the troll that he clearly was making about OS privacy & security.

If you want to claim that Apple OS's don't often have *massive* security
vulnerabilities then make that claim & I'll refute it with more facts.

You believe EVERYTHING Apple tells you to believe - I don't.

Carlos E.R. wrote on 27.04.2021 20:43

>> Do you know which apps read the SIM card contacts? I hadn't thought of it.
>
> On an Android phone? No, I do no longer know.

I'm with you in that it looks like you implied you no longer store much on
the SIM card and neither do I so it's not worth looking up further details.

I do seem to remember though that some contact duplication elimination
utilities asked whether or not to include the contacts on the SIM card.

But like you implied above - the database that matters most is the sqlite.

>> Anyway most apps that use your contacts do read the sqlite db on the phone.
>
> No. They read the Google contact list. On an Android phone, the default
> is read (and write) the Google contact list. And we are talking of
> Android phones, as we are in comp.mobile.android

What you call the "Google contact list" - I think you mean the "Gmail
contact list" - don't you? https://www.gmass.co/blog/gmail-contact-list/

Just to be clear - the Android phone dialer & SMS (& other apps) work
without Internet which means they work without logging into Google servers
just to store or retrieve a contact found in the phone's local default
contacts sqlite database (or on the SIM card).

https://www.fonecope.com/where-are-contacts-stored-on-android.html
"/data/data/com.android.providers.contacts/databases/contacts.db"
"/data/data/com.motorola.blur.providers.contacts/databases/contacts2.db"

> The Google contact list has, of course, a local copy which is what is
> normally used and is synced periodically.

I think you're referring to the "Gmail contact list" - aren't you?
https://support.contactsplus.com/article/55-contacts-in-gmail-understanding-and-organizing-your-google-contacts

Are you aware that GMail is not a required app for Android phones to work?
https://android.imyfone.com/undelete-android/where-are-contacts-stored-on-android/

Contacts Are Stored on Internal Storage
data/data/com.Android.providers.contacts/databases/contacts.db

"Contacts on Android Are Stored on SIM Card"
"Android Contacts Are Stored on SD Card"

You don't need to log into Google servers for Android phones to work.

>> Are you use the term "google" as a term for the contacts app?
>> Or maybe the dialer?
>> Or the texting app?
>
> Everything... An Android phone is a Google phone. Everything is stored
> locally, and synced periodically on Google servers. You can choose what
> is synced and what not, but... mistakes are possible.

I think in the case of the OP that optional "sync" is what is going on.
But he doesn't want that sync to Google servers to be going on (AFAICT).

I'm trying to help him by answering his questions as best I can.
As are you.

I showed him how to turn off the syncing of his phone contacts to Google
servers where I think it's rude that technically incompetent people sync
their contacts by default to Google servers - as apparently did Mayayana
(who is clearly technically competent also).

The OP doesn't appear to be technically competent so we have to give him
simplified instructions as he just wants to keep his GMail contacts separate
from his phone contacts (which is easy if you're technically competent).

>> Because if you search "where are contacts stored on Android" the correct
>> answer is in the sqlite database (which is located in the root filesystem).
>
> Well, ok. But this is different from some phones that have a contact
> application and list that is fully separate from the Android/Google
> system.

I don't know all that much about the sqlite contacts database but based on
your terminology of the "Google contact list" I think you may know even less
than I do.

The facts as I understand them are that there is one and only one sqlite
database on any given Android phone and THAT sqlite database is "THE"
contacts list for that phone.

The LOCATION of that sqlite contacts database varies by manufacturer but
it's ALWAYS in the root filesystem and it is what ALL the apps that need to
read/write to/from the contacts access (AFAIK).

Whether or not you choose to further upload the contents of that sqlite
contacts database to Google or Apple or Microsoft (or whatever) servers is
up to you but that doesn't mean that sync to servers is the contacts
database for the phone.

As I said - the contacts have to work without the Internet (and they do).

Also they work on Android without Google being involved in the process.
https://www.computerworld.com/article/2832391/can-an-android-phone-run-without-google-.html

But the OP's problem is related to how Google is involved (by default).
So let's work on solving the OP's problem.

> I Samsung has/had this. The list could be uploaded to a
> different "cloud" on Samsung servers. I'm not sure of this anymore.

The Android phone contacts are stored in the contacts sqlite database.
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/how-to-view-and-locate-sqlite-database-in-android-studio/

If the user chooses to upload those contacts to Google (or to any other
cloud service) that's fine - but uploading your contacts to Google servers
is not a requirement for Android to work as a phone.

Android phones without Google accounts do everything they do with them
https://blog.en.uptodown.com/use-android-without-google/

>> You keep using this term "google contact list" but you have contacts even on
>> a phone that doesn't have a google account set up. You don't need google.
>
> This is rare. On an Android phone, this is rare.

I agree it's rare for people to know they don't need to set up a Google
account and the Android phone does everything they need it to do.
https://gizmodo.com/a-guide-to-using-android-without-selling-your-soul-to-g-1827875582
>
>>
>> Can you give me a reference on the net for what you call this "google
>> contact list" so that I can better understand why you call it that?
>
> No, I don't have references.

I looked it up.
You almost certainly mean the "GMail contact list" which is NOT the Android
contact list. It's specific to Google.

Android phones work just fine without setting up a Google account on them.
https://www.howtogeek.com/358166/using-android-without-google-a-kind-of-guide/

Android phones even work fine without Android! :)
https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/03/27/install-use-custom-rom-no-google-apps/

> If on the phone I tap on "Play Store" (full name is Google Play Store"),
> then go to "my apps" (I'm translating from Spanish, so actual name could
> be different), then on "installed" tab, I get a list of the installed
> apps. One of them is "Contacts", written by "Google LLC". Thus the full
> name of the app is "Google Contacts".
>
> This one:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.contacts>

That's just 1 of many - all of which access the phone's sqlite contacts db.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=contacts&c=apps

>> One is to turn off sync.
>> The other is to manage his phone contacts away from the Google servers.
>
> The best is not to use an Android phone.

???

The best is to be intelligent about managing your contacts with privacy.
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/24331/add-contact-without-using-google-account

Anyone technically competent will be able to set up contacts without Google
https://www.computerworld.com/article/2832391/can-an-android-phone-run-without-google-.html

>> The simple solution for the OP to keep his email contacts separate from his
>> phone contacts is, as far as I know, to turn off the Google sync on his
>> phone.
>
> Eventually, this will fail, unless the phone doesn't have a google account.

The trick is to NOT use the Google GMail app which often syncs the contacts.

There are many non-Google MUA's which work well with Google email accounts.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=email%20mail%20user%20agent%20client

>> I'm just trying to help answer the OP's questions.
>
> Of course, so do we all :-)

Back to helping the OP - I think he needs to understand that the sqlite
contacts database on his phone IS his contacts database for Android.

The OP needs to realize that he can use ANY contacts app - all of which will
read/write from/to that default sqlite contacts database for Android.

Once the OP chooses which app he wants to use to read/write from/to the
default contacts sqlite database - the only thing left is for the OP to
figure out how to make THAT contacts app NOT sync to Google servers.

It's EASY if the OP chooses to use non-Google contacts and mail clients.

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 28.04.2021 01:09

> says almost everything about you and your lack of knowledge.

And yet you're the one who trolled up Apple & everything I said was correct.

What's interesting is you Apple trolls don't have any technical competence.

You only know what Apple says on their web site - all of which you BELIEVE.

In article <s6aa6u$1eha$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

> These *massive* bugs in Apple security have been going on for decades.

not decades and not unique to apple.

all platforms have longstanding bugs, such as these, one of which was
around for *25* *years*:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)>
Shellshock, also known as Bashdoor, is a family of security bugs
in the Unix Bash shell, the first of which was disclosed on 24
September 2014. Shellshock could enable an attacker to cause
Bash to execute arbitrary commands and gain unauthorized
access to many Internet-facing services, such as web servers,
that use Bash to process requests.
....
The Shellshock bug affects Bash, a program that various Unix-based
systems use to execute command lines and command scripts. It is often
installed as the system's default command-line interface. Analysis of
the source code history of Bash shows the bug was introduced on 5
August 1989, and released in Bash version 1.03 on 1 September
1989.

<https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/26/qualys_sudo_bug/>
The bug (CVE-2021-3156) found by Qualys, though, allows any
local user to gain root-level access on a vulnerable host in its
default configuration. Qualys is disclosing its findings in a
coordinated release with operating systems vendors, and
has bestowed the errant code with the memorable name
Baron_Samedit.
....
The bug was introduced in July 2011 (commit 8255ed69) and
has persisted unfixed until now.

nospam wrote on 28.04.2021 05:21

> not decades and not unique to apple.

Apple has always had constant & *massive* security holes from the beginning.

https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/02/remote-control-of-iphones-security-fail/
https://www.mactrast.com/2013/03/massive-apple-id-security-hole-allows-password-resets-using-only-your-email-address-and-date-of-birth/
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/mobile-computing/apple/computing/massive-apple-ipad-data-breach-reveals-114-000-subscriber-emails-695461

> all platforms have longstanding bugs, such as these, one of which was
> around for *25* *years*

Nobody defends Microsoft or Google like you tirelessly shelter Apple.

> The bug was introduced in July 2011 (commit 8255ed69) and
> has persisted unfixed until now.

You Apple lovers are who habitually accuse everyone but Apple for Apple's
*massive* security holes whenever it's reported that Apple goofed again.

Am 28.04.21 um 02:28 schrieb paul:
> nospam wrote on 27.04.2021 20:38
>> all of them when the user encrypts before uploading.
>
> Of course.
>
> You know that - I know that - but Joerg Lorenz doesn't appear to know that.
>
> Joerg Lorenz is apparently technically unqualified to understand that little
> twist you just added about adding encryption BEFORE uploading to the cloud.

This shows that you do not really know what end-to-end encryption means.

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 28.04.2021 11:18

>> You know that - I know that - but Joerg Lorenz doesn't appear to know that.
>>
>> Joerg Lorenz is apparently technically unqualified to understand that little
>> twist you just added about adding encryption BEFORE uploading to the cloud.
>
> This shows that you do not really know what end-to-end encryption means.

Are you claiming Apple does NOT scan your uploads to the iCloud Joerg?

Apple changed their privacy policy to say they can look for *ANYTHING* they
want to find - no exceptions. Read the policy changes BEFORE you respond.

It even includes content going against Apple's monetary business interests.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:36:48 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 26/04/2021 22.55, paul wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote on 26.04.2021 08:20
>>
>>> I thought like you in the past. Keep phone contacts in the SIM.
>>> Then I lost a phone and its contacts when I took a swim in the sea...
>>
>> I thought like that also but the SIM doesn't store as much as the phone
>> contacts database will does (either in size or in amount of detail per
>> contact).
>>
>> So storing in the SIM card doesn't work well.
>> Storing on the phone works well.
>
>That's true.
>
>So there is the phone, the SIM, and google contacts. Three places.
>
>And you are right, I think the contacts I lost were in the phone itself,
>the SIM I think it survived (it was long ago, I don't remember all details).
>
>But if I create a new contact, the app I have doesn't ask where to save
>it. It has no option to choose where.

Yes, that is the problem.

I think it was caused by "Up"dating (downgrading) to a new version of
Android, with less functionality.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve Hayes wrote on 29.04.2021 11:26

> I think it was caused by "Up"dating (downgrading) to a new version of
> Android, with less functionality.

Why would contact management have anything to do with the Android version?