Avoda work, craft
Yod hand, forelimb

Like hand to handling, handicraft

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> Avoda work, craft
> Yod hand, forelimb
>
> Like hand to handling, handicraft

Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
Yod from yad (hand)

Avoda may refer to hand-carrying of items
Hand, handling

I haven't found any further etymologies.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:

> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > Avoda work, craft
> > Yod hand, forelimb
> >
> > Like hand to handling, handicraft
>
> Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> Yod from yad (hand)

And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
common etymology. Wow!

Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad".
I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.

--
Helmut Richter

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:27:17 AM UTC-5, Helmut Richter wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > Avoda work, craft
> > > Yod hand, forelimb
> > >
> > > Like hand to handling, handicraft
> >
> > Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> > Yod from yad (hand)
> And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
> common etymology. Wow!
>
> Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad"..
> I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.
>
> --
> Helmut Richter
Schlecht und shtetl?
Bád & bath?
Surely you can add something sensible etymologically Helmut.

You see that the words both changed from 'a' to 'o' in parallel.
Both are related in meaning, manual...
I don't know if av- is a prefix, like English ap-, ab-, which may have caused the loss of initial 'y'.
So I inquired here.

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:25:27 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:27:17 AM UTC-5, Helmut Richter wrote:
> > On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > Avoda work, craft
> > > > Yod hand, forelimb
> > > >
> > > > Like hand to handling, handicraft
> > >
> > > Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> > > Yod from yad (hand)
> > And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
> > common etymology. Wow!
> >
> > Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad".
> > I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.
> >
> > --
> > Helmut Richter
> Schlecht und shtetl?
> Bád & bath?
> Surely you can add something sensible etymologically Helmut.
>
> You see that the words both changed from 'a' to 'o' in parallel.
> Both are related in meaning, manual...
> I don't know if av- is a prefix, like English ap-, ab-, which may have caused the loss of initial 'y'.
> So I inquired here.

Perhaps related to English 'load'? To carry, via 'lad'
c. 1200, lode, lade "that which is laid upon a person or beast, burden," a sense extension from Old English lad "a way, a course, a carrying; a street, watercourse; maintenance, support

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:00:57 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:25:27 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:27:17 AM UTC-5, Helmut Richter wrote:
> > > On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > Avoda work, craft
> > > > > Yod hand, forelimb
> > > > >
> > > > > Like hand to handling, handicraft
> > > >
> > > > Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> > > > Yod from yad (hand)
> > > And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
> > > common etymology. Wow!
> > >
> > > Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad".
> > > I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Helmut Richter
> > Schlecht und shtetl?
> > Bád & bath?
> > Surely you can add something sensible etymologically Helmut.
> >
> > You see that the words both changed from 'a' to 'o' in parallel.
> > Both are related in meaning, manual...
> > I don't know if av- is a prefix, like English ap-, ab-, which may have caused the loss of initial 'y'.
> > So I inquired here.
> Perhaps related to English 'load'? To carry, via 'lad'
> c. 1200, lode, lade "that which is laid upon a person or beast, burden," a sense extension from Old English lad "a way, a course, a carrying; a street, watercourse; maintenance, support
Then also to Malay 'bawa' to carry, and to English 'bear'?
Abad avoda load bear bawa, and on to birth bore born
Perhaps beit beth hut, portable tent made by hand
xyuAmBUAT xYUAmbUAT yo-t
What are words for hand, carry, work in Deutsch, Basque, Aztec?
Arbeit!

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:52:55 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:00:57 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:25:27 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:27:17 AM UTC-5, Helmut Richter wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > Avoda work, craft
> > > > > > Yod hand, forelimb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like hand to handling, handicraft
> > > > >
> > > > > Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> > > > > Yod from yad (hand)
> > > > And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
> > > > common etymology. Wow!
> > > >
> > > > Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad".
> > > > I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Helmut Richter
> > > Schlecht und shtetl?
> > > Bád & bath?
> > > Surely you can add something sensible etymologically Helmut.
> > >
> > > You see that the words both changed from 'a' to 'o' in parallel.
> > > Both are related in meaning, manual...
> > > I don't know if av- is a prefix, like English ap-, ab-, which may have caused the loss of initial 'y'.
> > > So I inquired here.
> > Perhaps related to English 'load'? To carry, via 'lad'
> > c. 1200, lode, lade "that which is laid upon a person or beast, burden," a sense extension from Old English lad "a way, a course, a carrying; a street, watercourse; maintenance, support
> Then also to Malay 'bawa' to carry, and to English 'bear'?
> Abad avoda load bear bawa, and on to birth bore born
> Perhaps beit beth hut, portable tent made by hand
> xyuAmBUAT xYUAmbUAT yo-t
> What are words for hand, carry, work in Deutsch, Basque, Aztec?
> Arbeit!
English aboard, dis.embark, off-load, em.belli.sh? uam.belle, belt, etc.
Oldest work: mother bearing child either in arms or piggyback
Basque carry : eraman
Basque carry on : jarraitu

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 9:20:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:52:55 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:00:57 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:25:27 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:27:17 AM UTC-5, Helmut Richter wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > Avoda work, craft
> > > > > > > Yod hand, forelimb
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Like hand to handling, handicraft
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> > > > > > Yod from yad (hand)
> > > > > And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
> > > > > common etymology. Wow!
> > > > >
> > > > > Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad".
> > > > > I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Helmut Richter
> > > > Schlecht und shtetl?
> > > > Bád & bath?
> > > > Surely you can add something sensible etymologically Helmut.
> > > >
> > > > You see that the words both changed from 'a' to 'o' in parallel.
> > > > Both are related in meaning, manual...
> > > > I don't know if av- is a prefix, like English ap-, ab-, which may have caused the loss of initial 'y'.
> > > > So I inquired here.
> > > Perhaps related to English 'load'? To carry, via 'lad'
> > > c. 1200, lode, lade "that which is laid upon a person or beast, burden," a sense extension from Old English lad "a way, a course, a carrying; a street, watercourse; maintenance, support
> > Then also to Malay 'bawa' to carry, and to English 'bear'?
> > Abad avoda load bear bawa, and on to birth bore born
> > Perhaps beit beth hut, portable tent made by hand
> > xyuAmBUAT xYUAmbUAT yo-t
> > What are words for hand, carry, work in Deutsch, Basque, Aztec?
> > Arbeit!
> English aboard, dis.embark, off-load, em.belli.sh? uam.belle, belt, etc.
> Oldest work: mother bearing child either in arms or piggyback
> Basque carry : eraman
> Basque carry on : jarraitu

Boat bowl bottle, kom @ Old Dut: bowl
bwato @Chichewa: (hand) dugout canoe boat
Maybe ship from kapal? XYuam(b/bh/P)uatl

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:07:58 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 9:20:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:52:55 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:00:57 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:25:27 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:27:17 AM UTC-5, Helmut Richter wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > Avoda work, craft
> > > > > > > > Yod hand, forelimb
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like hand to handling, handicraft
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> > > > > > > Yod from yad (hand)
> > > > > > And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
> > > > > > common etymology. Wow!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad".
> > > > > > I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Helmut Richter
> > > > > Schlecht und shtetl?
> > > > > Bád & bath?
> > > > > Surely you can add something sensible etymologically Helmut.
> > > > >
> > > > > You see that the words both changed from 'a' to 'o' in parallel.
> > > > > Both are related in meaning, manual...
> > > > > I don't know if av- is a prefix, like English ap-, ab-, which may have caused the loss of initial 'y'.
> > > > > So I inquired here.
> > > > Perhaps related to English 'load'? To carry, via 'lad'
> > > > c. 1200, lode, lade "that which is laid upon a person or beast, burden," a sense extension from Old English lad "a way, a course, a carrying; a street, watercourse; maintenance, support
> > > Then also to Malay 'bawa' to carry, and to English 'bear'?
> > > Abad avoda load bear bawa, and on to birth bore born
> > > Perhaps beit beth hut, portable tent made by hand
> > > xyuAmBUAT xYUAmbUAT yo-t
> > > What are words for hand, carry, work in Deutsch, Basque, Aztec?
> > > Arbeit!
> > English aboard, dis.embark, off-load, em.belli.sh? uam.belle, belt, etc..
> > Oldest work: mother bearing child either in arms or piggyback
Basque carry : eraman
Basque carry on : jarraitu
Basque hand : eskua
Basque work : lana

Aztec carry : xitlamama
Aztec hand : -mac-, -maitl
Aztec work : xitlatekiti

> Boat bowl bottle, kom @ Old Dut: bowl
> bwato @Chichewa: (hand) dugout canoe boat
> Maybe ship from kapal? XYuam(b/bh/P)uatl

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 9:41:54 PM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:07:58 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 9:20:01 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:52:55 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:00:57 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 7:25:27 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:27:17 AM UTC-5, Helmut Richter wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Avoda work, craft
> > > > > > > > > Yod hand, forelimb
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Like hand to handling, handicraft
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Avoda.h from abad (tilling, physical work)
> > > > > > > > Yod from yad (hand)
> > > > > > > And they have one letter in common which is a strong indication for a
> > > > > > > common etymology. Wow!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Much closer ist English "bad" which shares two letters with Hebrew "abad".
> > > > > > > I am sure you'll find a reason for this striking similarity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Helmut Richter
> > > > > > Schlecht und shtetl?
> > > > > > Bád & bath?
> > > > > > Surely you can add something sensible etymologically Helmut.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You see that the words both changed from 'a' to 'o' in parallel..
> > > > > > Both are related in meaning, manual...
> > > > > > I don't know if av- is a prefix, like English ap-, ab-, which may have caused the loss of initial 'y'.
> > > > > > So I inquired here.
> > > > > Perhaps related to English 'load'? To carry, via 'lad'
> > > > > c. 1200, lode, lade "that which is laid upon a person or beast, burden," a sense extension from Old English lad "a way, a course, a carrying; a street, watercourse; maintenance, support
> > > > Then also to Malay 'bawa' to carry, and to English 'bear'?
> > > > Abad avoda load bear bawa, and on to birth bore born
> > > > Perhaps beit beth hut, portable tent made by hand
> > > > xyuAmBUAT xYUAmbUAT yo-t
> > > > What are words for hand, carry, work in Deutsch, Basque, Aztec?
> > > > Arbeit!
> > > English aboard, dis.embark, off-load, em.belli.sh? uam.belle, belt, etc.
> > > Oldest work: mother bearing child either in arms or piggyback
> Basque carry : eraman
> Basque carry on : jarraitu
> Basque hand : eskua
> Basque work : lana
>
> Aztec carry : xitlamama
> Aztec hand : -mac-, -maitl
> Aztec work : xitlatekiti
> > Boat bowl bottle, kom @ Old Dut: bowl
> > bwato @Chichewa: (hand) dugout canoe boat
> > Maybe ship from kapal? XYuam(b/bh/P)uatl
- Hand Egl, hand Grm, yad Hbr, mac Azt, tangan Mly, eskua Bsq
Work Egl, arbeit Grm, avoda Hbr, xitlatekiti Azt, kerja Mly, lana Bsq
Load/lad Egl, lást Grm, abad Hbr, xitlamama Azt, bawa Mly, eraman Bsq

Note: Azt xiotl = shuttle; Egl lift, laden
"Embark upon a new trade"

On 05.12.2022 10:18, Daud Deden wrote:

>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,

The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
kinship in German:

the "family" of it based on ... _werk_

e.g. verbs werken and werkeln; nouns Werk (can have the meaning
"factory", esp. in the plural Werke), Gewerk. Etc.

E.g. composita with Werk-:

a raw material used to be processed is called in German
Werkstoff (ad-littaram this would be "work('s) matter").

Handwerker: "craftsman/people, artizan/manufacturer" as well
as "wright".

(In which there is a verbatim correspondence Hand + Werker
as in the Latin manu "hand" + facturer, with fact-ur- past
participle of facere "to do, make".)

Werkstudent: a student working part-time as an untrained
work force (esp. in companies/factories and institutions)
in order to be able to finance his/her studying.

Werk(s)tor: gate of a factory, plant & the like.

Werksarzt = Betriebsarzt: medical doctor (physician) for the
personnel of a factory.

Werktätige/r: a rather "socialist" word meaning "worker"
or "employed" by and large, ie, someone on a payroll
(as opposed to all self-employed and company owners).

This funny word compositum simply means "work doer".
(Tätig = Täter = "doer, someone who works, who performs
a task" & the like; only that the nice noun Täter can't
be used since in today's standard German it means a ...
"wrongdoer", a "criminal" who has broken the law.)

Seemingly quite as "versatile" as work in English, but
this one frequently alternates with the Romance word labo(u)r.

The German language also has many situations in which
synonymic solutions are preferred instead of "Werk"-
based vocabulary. Esp. Arbeit & composita, vb. arbeiten

But in various contexts and often such verbs as schaffen
(basicly meaning "to create, realize, do") and machen
("to make, to do") are in synonymic use. (Schaffen also
means "to work" as the ... first option in dialectal
German, e.g. esp. in the Suebian-Alemanian dialect, cf.
the dialectal saying "schaffe, schaffe, Häusle baue,"
which would give in a Berlitz German language "arbeite,
arbeite, damit du dir ein Häuslein bauen kannst". :-))

With the funny word creation:

Werkzeugmacher for "toolmaker", since a "tool" is a
"Werzeug" (verbatim: "work('s) thing; a thing used
for working").

Tim

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 7:37:55 AM UTC-5, Tim Lang wrote:
> On 05.12.2022 10:18, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> >Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
>
> The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
> Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
> kinship in German:
>
> the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
>
> e.g. verbs werken and werkeln; nouns Werk (can have the meaning
> "factory", esp. in the plural Werke), Gewerk. Etc.
>
> E.g. composita with Werk-:
>
> a raw material used to be processed is called in German
> Werkstoff (ad-littaram this would be "work('s) matter").
>
> Handwerker: "craftsman/people, artizan/manufacturer" as well
> as "wright".
>
> (In which there is a verbatim correspondence Hand + Werker
> as in the Latin manu "hand" + facturer, with fact-ur- past
> participle of facere "to do, make".)
>
> Werkstudent: a student working part-time as an untrained
> work force (esp. in companies/factories and institutions)
> in order to be able to finance his/her studying.
>
> Werk(s)tor: gate of a factory, plant & the like.
>
> Werksarzt = Betriebsarzt: medical doctor (physician) for the
> personnel of a factory.
>
> Werktätige/r: a rather "socialist" word meaning "worker"
> or "employed" by and large, ie, someone on a payroll
> (as opposed to all self-employed and company owners).
>
> This funny word compositum simply means "work doer".
> (Tätig = Täter = "doer, someone who works, who performs
> a task" & the like; only that the nice noun Täter can't
> be used since in today's standard German it means a ...
> "wrongdoer", a "criminal" who has broken the law.)
>
> Seemingly quite as "versatile" as work in English, but
> this one frequently alternates with the Romance word labo(u)r.
>
> The German language also has many situations in which
> synonymic solutions are preferred instead of "Werk"-
> based vocabulary. Esp. Arbeit & composita, vb. arbeiten
>
> But in various contexts and often such verbs as schaffen
> (basicly meaning "to create, realize, do") and machen
> ("to make, to do") are in synonymic use. (Schaffen also
> means "to work" as the ... first option in dialectal
> German, e.g. esp. in the Suebian-Alemanian dialect, cf.
> the dialectal saying "schaffe, schaffe, Häusle baue,"
> which would give in a Berlitz German language "arbeite,
> arbeite, damit du dir ein Häuslein bauen kannst". :-))
>
> With the funny word creation:
>
> Werkzeugmacher for "toolmaker", since a "tool" is a
> "Werzeug" (verbatim: "work('s) thing; a thing used
> for working").
>
> Tim

Wow, such diversity! I knew of werk(s) via BMW, it is also similar to avoda if werk was once pronounced with a little 'o' sound rather than a pure 'e' sound, like in English work could be written as werk or wurk based solely on modern pronunciation (US).

I wanted to stress the similar functions of hand & carrying as active work in the prehistoric sense, moms carrying infants in arms during nursing, on shoulders after weaning leaving hands free for holding baskets-pots, while fathers carried spears, shields & tools. Yad yod lad load abad avoda ... these differ from schaffe & mache & tätig I think.
But l.abo.r sounds a bit similar, (L)avo(da).
Hard to match words around the world, since they've evolved so much, as has technology (backpacks, wagons).

On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
>
> The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
> Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
> kinship in German:
>
> the "family" of it based on ... _werk_

Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
initial w.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Mon, 5 Dec 2022 05:45:52 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
<daud.deden@gmail.com> scribeva:
>Hard to match words around the world, since they've evolved so much, as has technology (backpacks, wagons)

So there is no match. Why is it so hard to accept that? Do all words
in the world HAVE to be matched? If so, why? Only because YOU would
find that nice? Life isn't always nice.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Mon, 5 Dec 2022 13:52:33 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber
<naddy@mips.inka.de> scribeva:

>On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
>>
>> The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
>> Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
>> kinship in German:
>>
>> the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
>
>Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
>That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
>initial w.

As did Danish, seeing its word Ordbok for what in Dutch is a
woordenboek, or could in theory have been woordboek.

So Danish and Greek MUST be related languages, no?

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On 2022-12-05, Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:

>>That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
>>initial w.
>
> As did Danish, seeing its word Ordbok for what in Dutch is a
> woordenboek, or could in theory have been woordboek.

That's already in Old Norse and is limited to w (spelled v) before
back vowels. Examples are "Odin" as opposed to Old English "Woden",
or ON "ulfr" for "wolf".

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Mon, 5 Dec 2022 18:36:11 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber
<naddy@mips.inka.de> scribeva:

>On 2022-12-05, Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:
>
>>>That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
>>>initial w.
>>
>> As did Danish, seeing its word Ordbok for what in Dutch is a
>> woordenboek, or could in theory have been woordboek.
>
>That's already in Old Norse and is limited to w (spelled v) before
>back vowels. Examples are "Odin" as opposed to Old English "Woden",
>or ON "ulfr" for "wolf".

<Daud-mode>Yeah, right, so Ancient Greek and Old Norse must have akin,
no? </Daud-mode>
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
> >
> > The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
> > Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
> > kinship in German:
> >
> > the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
> Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
> That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
> initial w.
>
> --
> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

Thanks Christian, I didn't know that.

Erg
From Ancient Greek ἔργον (érgon, “work”).

Arbeit
From Middle High German arbeit, from Old High German arbeit, from Proto-West Germanic *arbaiþi, from Proto-Germanic *arbaidiz, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h₃órbʰos (“orphan, servant, slave”), from which English orphan is also derived. Cognate with Yiddish אַרבעט‎ (arbet), Old English earfoþe.

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 9:51:35 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Mon, 5 Dec 2022 05:45:52 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >Hard to match words around the world, since they've evolved so much, as has technology (backpacks, wagons)
> So there is no match. Why is it so hard to accept that? Do all words
> in the world HAVE to be matched? If so, why? Only because YOU would
> find that nice? Life isn't always nice.
> --
> Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Troll alert. Please ignore.

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 4:36:54 PM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Mon, 5 Dec 2022 18:36:11 -0000 (UTC): Christian Weisgerber
> <na...@mips.inka.de> scribeva:
> >On 2022-12-05, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
> >>>initial w.
> >>
> >> As did Danish, seeing its word Ordbok for what in Dutch is a
> >> woordenboek, or could in theory have been woordboek.
> >
> >That's already in Old Norse and is limited to w (spelled v) before
> >back vowels. Examples are "Odin" as opposed to Old English "Woden",
> >or ON "ulfr" for "wolf".
> <Daud-mode>Yeah, right, so Ancient Greek and Old Norse must have akin,
> no? </Daud-mode>
> --
> Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
Troll alert. Please ignore.

Mon, 5 Dec 2022 14:29:17 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
<daud.deden@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>> On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
>> >
>> > The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
>> > Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
>> > kinship in German:
>> >
>> > the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
>> Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
>> That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
>> initial w.
>>
>> --
>> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
>
>Thanks Christian, I didn't know that.
>
>Erg
>From Ancient Greek ????? (érgon, “work”).

Yes.

>Arbeit
>From Middle High German arbeit, from Old High German arbeit, from Proto-West Germanic *arbaiþi, from Proto-Germanic *arbaidiz, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h?órb?os (“orphan, servant, slave”), from which English orphan is also derived. Cognate with Yiddish ??????? (arbet), Old English earfoþe.

NO!!!!! Arbeit is related to Czech robota and Russian rabotatj, to
work, but NOT with English work and Greek ergon.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 1:49:22 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Mon, 5 Dec 2022 14:29:17 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
> <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> >> On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
> >> >
> >> > The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
> >> > Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
> >> > kinship in German:
> >> >
> >> > the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
> >> Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
> >> That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
> >> initial w.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
> >
> >Thanks Christian, I didn't know that.
> >
> >Erg
> >From Ancient Greek ????? (érgon, “work”).
>
> Yes.
>
> >Arbeit
> >From Middle High German arbeit, from Old High German arbeit, from Proto-West Germanic *arbaiþi, from Proto-Germanic *arbaidiz, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h?órb?os (“orphan, servant, slave”), from which English orphan is also derived. Cognate with Yiddish ??????? (arbet), Old English earfoþe.
>
> NO!!!!! Arbeit is related to Czech robota and Russian rabotatj, to
> work, but NOT with English work and Greek ergon.

You misunderstood again. Arbeit is via erbe, not erg.

Orphan is from PIE *orbho- "bereft of father," also "deprived of free status," from root *orbh- "to change allegiance, to pass from one status to another" (source also of Hittite harb- "change allegiance," Latin orbus "bereft," Sanskrit arbhah "weak, child," Armenian orb "orphan," Old Irish orbe "heir," Old Church Slavonic rabu "slave," rabota "servitude" (see robot), Gothic arbja, German erbe, Old English ierfa "heir," Old High German arabeit, German Arbeit "work," Old Frisian arbed, Old English earfoð "hardship, suffering, trouble"

Arbhah @SKt: weak, child

Sounds like a tired toddler needing to ride piggyback

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:01:48 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 1:49:22 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Mon, 5 Dec 2022 14:29:17 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
> > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > >On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > >> On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
> > >> >
> > >> > The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
> > >> > Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
> > >> > kinship in German:
> > >> >
> > >> > the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
> > >> Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
> > >> That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
> > >> initial w.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
> > >
> > >Thanks Christian, I didn't know that.
> > >
> > >Erg
> > >From Ancient Greek ????? (érgon, “work”).
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > >Arbeit
> > >From Middle High German arbeit, from Old High German arbeit, from Proto-West Germanic *arbaiþi, from Proto-Germanic *arbaidiz, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h?órb?os (“orphan, servant, slave”), from which English orphan is also derived. Cognate with Yiddish ??????? (arbet), Old English earfoþe.
> >
> > NO!!!!! Arbeit is related to Czech robota and Russian rabotatj, to
> > work, but NOT with English work and Greek ergon.
> You misunderstood again. Arbeit is via erbe, not erg.
>
> Orphan is from PIE *orbho- "bereft of father," also "deprived of free status," from root *orbh- "to change allegiance, to pass from one status to another" (source also of Hittite harb- "change allegiance," Latin orbus "bereft," Sanskrit arbhah "weak, child," Armenian orb "orphan," Old Irish orbe "heir," Old Church Slavonic rabu "slave," rabota "servitude" (see robot), Gothic arbja, German erbe, Old English ierfa "heir," Old High German arabeit, German Arbeit "work," Old Frisian arbed, Old English earfoð "hardship, suffering, trouble"
>
> Arbhah @SKt: weak, child
>
> Sounds like a tired toddler needing to ride piggyback

Significantly, eruv in Hebrew describes the zone delineated by string where on the sabbath carrying is permitted. Beyond eruv, a child is not carried, must toddle along. Avoda is work in the sense of carrying (a thing, a child) by hand.
Erbe, arbeit, eruv, orphan, avoda, yod all seem connected to this. Right?

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:32:55 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:01:48 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 1:49:22 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > > Mon, 5 Dec 2022 14:29:17 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
> > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > > >On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > > >> On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
> > > >> > Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
> > > >> > kinship in German:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
> > > >> Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
> > > >> That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
> > > >> initial w.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
> > > >
> > > >Thanks Christian, I didn't know that.
> > > >
> > > >Erg
> > > >From Ancient Greek ????? (érgon, “work”).
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > > >Arbeit
> > > >From Middle High German arbeit, from Old High German arbeit, from Proto-West Germanic *arbaiþi, from Proto-Germanic *arbaidiz, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h?órb?os (“orphan, servant, slave”), from which English orphan is also derived. Cognate with Yiddish ??????? (arbet), Old English earfoþe.
> > >
> > > NO!!!!! Arbeit is related to Czech robota and Russian rabotatj, to
> > > work, but NOT with English work and Greek ergon.
> > You misunderstood again. Arbeit is via erbe, not erg.
> >
> > Orphan is from PIE *orbho- "bereft of father," also "deprived of free status," from root *orbh- "to change allegiance, to pass from one status to another" (source also of Hittite harb- "change allegiance," Latin orbus "bereft," Sanskrit arbhah "weak, child," Armenian orb "orphan," Old Irish orbe "heir," Old Church Slavonic rabu "slave," rabota "servitude" (see robot), Gothic arbja, German erbe, Old English ierfa "heir," Old High German arabeit, German Arbeit "work," Old Frisian arbed, Old English earfoð "hardship, suffering, trouble"
> >
> > Arbhah @SKt: weak, child
> >
> > Sounds like a tired toddler needing to ride piggyback
> Significantly, eruv in Hebrew describes the zone delineated by string where on the sabbath carrying is permitted. Beyond eruv, a child is not carried, must toddle along. Avoda is work in the sense of carrying (a thing, a child) by hand.
> Erbe, arbeit, eruv, orphan, avoda, yod all seem connected to this. Right?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/customs/eruv_1.shtml
---
There is a great light and importance in fulfilling the Mitzvah of Eruv. Because G-d created balanced oppositional forces in the world there is also a powerful opposition to it. For [the Mitzvah of] Eruv was established by King Solomon, the Father of Wisdom, as is stated in the Talmud (Shabbos 14b; Eruvin 21b). In my humble opinion, his primary intention was: since the [forbidden] Shabbos labor of carrying [in a public place] is a “unique labor” [DD: avoda] among the 39 [forbidden] labors, the [potential] to stumble in it is extremely common and likely. (Pasted from a torah site)
---
Inside eruv, carrying child as at home is allowed, but beyond eruv, child can't be carried or pushed in pram on sabbath. The work of carrying by hand is avoda. In that sense, the child is temporarily orphaned and must do his/her own work.

Do you understand now?

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:58:14 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:32:55 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:01:48 AM UTC-5, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 1:49:22 AM UTC-5, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > > > Mon, 5 Dec 2022 14:29:17 -0800 (PST): Daud Deden
> > > > <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> > > > >On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 9:30:07 AM UTC-5, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > > > >> On 2022-12-05, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >>Work Egl, arbeit Grm,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The real comparison English - German isn't provided by German
> > > > >> > Arbeit (which BTW is akin to ... robot/ic/s), but by its
> > > > >> > kinship in German:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > the "family" of it based on ... _werk_
> > > > >> Also cognate are the Greek roots erg-, org-, e.g., "organ".
> > > > >> That's less surprising when you remember that Ancient Greek lost
> > > > >> initial w.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks Christian, I didn't know that.
> > > > >
> > > > >Erg
> > > > >From Ancient Greek ????? (érgon, “work”).
> > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > > >
> > > > >Arbeit
> > > > >From Middle High German arbeit, from Old High German arbeit, from Proto-West Germanic *arbaiþi, from Proto-Germanic *arbaidiz, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h?órb?os (“orphan, servant, slave”), from which English orphan is also derived. Cognate with Yiddish ??????? (arbet), Old English earfoþe.
> > > >
> > > > NO!!!!! Arbeit is related to Czech robota and Russian rabotatj, to
> > > > work, but NOT with English work and Greek ergon.
> > > You misunderstood again. Arbeit is via erbe, not erg.
> > >
> > > Orphan is from PIE *orbho- "bereft of father," also "deprived of free status," from root *orbh- "to change allegiance, to pass from one status to another" (source also of Hittite harb- "change allegiance," Latin orbus "bereft," Sanskrit arbhah "weak, child," Armenian orb "orphan," Old Irish orbe "heir," Old Church Slavonic rabu "slave," rabota "servitude" (see robot), Gothic arbja, German erbe, Old English ierfa "heir," Old High German arabeit, German Arbeit "work," Old Frisian arbed, Old English earfoð "hardship, suffering, trouble"
> > >
> > > Arbhah @SKt: weak, child
> > >
> > > Sounds like a tired toddler needing to ride piggyback
> > Significantly, eruv in Hebrew describes the zone delineated by string where on the sabbath carrying is permitted. Beyond eruv, a child is not carried, must toddle along. Avoda is work in the sense of carrying (a thing, a child) by hand.
> > Erbe, arbeit, eruv, orphan, avoda, yod all seem connected to this. Right?
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/customs/eruv_1.shtml
> ---
> There is a great light and importance in fulfilling the Mitzvah of Eruv. Because G-d created balanced oppositional forces in the world there is also a powerful opposition to it. For [the Mitzvah of] Eruv was established by King Solomon, the Father of Wisdom, as is stated in the Talmud (Shabbos 14b; Eruvin 21b). In my humble opinion, his primary intention was: since the [forbidden] Shabbos labor of carrying [in a public place] is a “unique labor” [DD: avoda] among the 39 [forbidden] labors, the [potential] to stumble in it is extremely common and likely. (Pasted from a torah site)
> ---
> Inside eruv, carrying child as at home is allowed, but beyond eruv, child can't be carried or pushed in pram on sabbath. The work of carrying by hand is avoda. In that sense, the child is temporarily orphaned and must do his/her own work.
>
> Do you understand now?

Is there an etymological link between Latin Urbs (city, community) and Hebrew Eruv and German Erbe and Sanskrit Arbhah? I think so.

Eruv ~ Urb ~ Orb, Eruvim ~ Urbis ~ Orbit.
Urb
Etymology
Of uncertain origin.

From Proto-Italic *worβis, from Proto-Indo-European *werbʰ- (“to enclose”) (compare Umbrian 𐌖𐌄𐌓𐌚𐌀𐌋𐌄 (uerfale, “area for taking auspices”), Hittite [script needed] (warpa-, “enclosure”), Tocharian A warpi (“garden”), Tocharian B werwiye (“garden”)).[1]
Derivation from Proto-Indo-European *gʰórdʰos (“city”) (from *gʰerdʰ- (“to enclose”), whence e.g. Hittite [script needed] (gurtas, “citadel”) Sanskrit गृह (gṛhá, “house”), English yard) has been proposed,[2] but suffers from irregularities: *horbus would be rather expected.

orb (n.)
mid-15c., "sphere, globe, something spherical or circular, orbit of a heavenly body," from Old French orbe "orb, globe" (13c.) and directly from Latin orbem (nominative orbis) "circle, disk, ring, hoop, orbit," probably related to orbita "wheel track, rut," a word of unknown and much-disputed origin.. [DD: home is original orderly (otli) central body of orbit]