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tech / sci.lang / (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?

SubjectAuthor
* (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?henh...@gmail.com
`* Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?Arnaud Fournet
 `* Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?henh...@gmail.com
  `- Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?Ruud Harmsen

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(Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?

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Subject: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:57 UTC

BACH in Hebrew is באך
(Kaf Aleph Bet)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaph
> Kaf without the dagesh (khaf) -- When this letter appears
as כ‎ without the dagesh ("dot") in its center it represents [χ], like
the ch in German "Bach".

The following BACH has a Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?

בּאך

Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?

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Subject: Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?
From: fournet....@wanadoo.fr (Arnaud Fournet)
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 by: Arnaud Fournet - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 08:38 UTC

Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 15:57:10 UTC+1, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
> BACH in Hebrew is באך
> (Kaf Aleph Bet)
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaph
> > Kaf without the dagesh (khaf) -- When this letter appears
> as כ‎ without the dagesh ("dot") in its center it represents [χ], like
> the ch in German "Bach".
>
>
> The following BACH has a Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?
>
> בּאך
the dagesh ("dot") means "non fricative": ב=v vs בּ=b

Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?

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Subject: Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:13 UTC

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 1:39:01 AM UTC-7, Arnaud Fournet wrote:
> Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 15:57:10 UTC+1, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > BACH in Hebrew is באך
> > (Kaf Aleph Bet)
> >
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaph
> > > Kaf without the dagesh (khaf) -- When this letter appears
> > as כ‎ without the dagesh ("dot") in its center it represents [χ], like
> > the ch in German "Bach".
> >
> >
> > The following BACH has a Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?
> >
> > בּאך

> the dagesh ("dot") means "non fricative": ב=v vs בּ=b

thanks ! i noticed that 1. the Wikipedia page is too detailed
for a novice like me... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagesh
i can't extract the info that i wanted.

and 2. (the info that i wanted is hard to get by Net searching, etc.)

--- my B (Bach) example must be [dagesh lene] like Lenition (in Irish).

What is the uses of dagesh?
The dagesh sign was used mainly in two contexts. These are
(i) on a consonant that was geminated (traditionally referred to in modern grammars as dagesh forte)
and (ii) on the consonants תפכדגב when they were realized as plosives (traditionally referred to as dagesh lene).

Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
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Subject: Re: (Hebrew) Dot within Bet -- what does this Dot do?
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 18:00 UTC

Thu, 23 Mar 2023 08:13:11 -0700 (PDT): "henh...@gmail.com"
<henhanna@gmail.com> scribeva:
>thanks ! i noticed that 1. the Wikipedia page is too detailed
>for a novice like me... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagesh
>i can't extract the info that i wanted.

At some point in time in Aramaic, later also in Hebrew, 6 consonants
were fricatived after a vowel. k became X (like in German Bach or
Buch), p became f, t became th. g became gh, d became dh, b became v.
In modern Hebrew, only the changes of k, p and b are still audible,
the others were turned back under the influence of Sephardi Hebrew
(perhaps also Ashkenazi).

In some contexts, like when geminated (double), the change did not
take place. This was and is indicated with the diacritic called
dagesh.

There is also a diacritic that works in the other direction, called
rafe, but it is only used in certain spelling conventions of Yiddish,
not in Hebrew (or rarely so?). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafe

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