My experience capturing the coyote audio was good, but I always want to
strive for the "excellent" category. As I could only get so close to
them now, I have considered alternate set ups to maybe lessen the
distance gap, either through travel to a remote area, much further away,
or electronically.

I'm thinking electronically if I stay put and continue the remote
recordings. I recently came across the chart and information here:

https://practicalmechanic.com/2021/01/24/should-i-get-a-zoom-h2n-pros-and-cons-final-verdict/

Unfortunately, my H2 is about the worst in this category! According to
the info there, I would need a Zoom H4n Pro or further on down the chart
to meet the needs of "field recording." Is my Zoom H2 that bad??

Considering an upgrade, but the following factors apply:

1) As almost everyone here who has been following my posts knows, I can
only get so close to the coyotes. The remote area where I mount the
recorder nightly is a lot closer, but I still have to use compression
and even NR to bring out a better result. With a recorder like the H4n
Pro, after normalizing the quiet recordings, would the background noise,
theoretically assuming I wouldn't have it, be low enough that the
resultant amplitude increase would sound good without having to use NR?

2) The kicker IS the background noise. Close to the neighborhood with
cars coming and going,, etc. All of this has shown up in my recordings
to date even with the rear side of the Zoom facing the neighborhood and
set to the front 90 deg setting. I can't use my homemade dish at that
location, but maybe there's a more directional mike I could make like
shown here:

https://acousticnature.com/journal/how-to-make-diy-microphone-with-em172-272-capsules

I don't think those elements are directional, but I think I encountered
some, perhaps made by the same firm, that were. My research also
suggests that a simple low noise, external mic from one of these or
similar elements might negate the high inherent noise from my Zoom as
well (but I'm not sure how if my Zoom unit itself starts off with that
-99 dB noise).

As you know from other posts, I am primarily a DIYer with a limited
budget. Something like a used Zoom H4n or 5 would be stretching it.

Your thoughts would be welcome, as always. Thanks in advance.

Jake T <jaketbone@steak.com> said...news:suj0bs$4s0$1@dont-email.me:

-snippage-
>
> 1) As almost everyone here who has been following my posts knows, I can
> only get so close to the coyotes. The remote area where I mount the
> recorder nightly is a lot closer, but I still have to use compression
> and even NR to bring out a better result. With a recorder like the H4n
> Pro, after normalizing the quiet recordings, would the background noise,
> theoretically assuming I wouldn't have it, be low enough that the
> resultant amplitude increase would sound good without having to use NR?
>
> 2) The kicker IS the background noise. Close to the neighborhood with
> cars coming and going,, etc. All of this has shown up in my recordings
> to date even with the rear side of the Zoom facing the neighborhood and
> set to the front 90 deg setting. I can't use my homemade dish at that
> location, but maybe there's a more directional mike I could make like
> shown here:
>
>
> https://acousticnature.com/journal/how-to-make-diy-microphone-with-em172-
> 272-capsules
>
>
> I don't think those elements are directional, but I think I encountered
> some, perhaps made by the same firm, that were. My research also
> suggests that a simple low noise, external mic from one of these or
> similar elements might negate the high inherent noise from my Zoom as
> well (but I'm not sure how if my Zoom unit itself starts off with that
> -99 dB noise).
>
> As you know from other posts, I am primarily a DIYer with a limited
> budget. Something like a used Zoom H4n or 5 would be stretching it.
>
> Your thoughts would be welcome, as always. Thanks in advance.
>
>
>

I just got an H4n Pro and love it. It's quiet and has been great for
getting outdoor sounds. I usually put it on a stand and walk away, but
will try some external mics soon. Lots of great built-in features, too.

They go on sale occasionally, or check Reverb.

david

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2/16/22 11:10, david gourley wrote:
>
>>
>
> I just got an H4n Pro and love it. It's quiet and has been great for
> getting outdoor sounds. I usually put it on a stand and walk away, but
> will try some external mics soon. Lots of great built-in features, too.
>
> They go on sale occasionally, or check Reverb.
>
> david
>

Initially, I was leaning perhaps towards that one, but then came across
this site which seems to have better noise testing results:

https://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

According to the specs there, the noise isn't much better than the Zoom
H2 I use now. So, now I'm looking at the H5 as a possible candidate.

On 16/02/2022 16:19, Jake T wrote:

> Initially, I was leaning perhaps towards that one, but then came across
> this site which seems to have better noise testing results:
>
> https://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/
>
> According to the specs there, the noise isn't much better than the Zoom
> H2 I use now. So, now I'm looking at the H5 as a possible candidate.
>
The problem is that, especially with the built in mics, all the portable
recorders, no matter who makes them, are pushing the same limits for
noise and gain. There is only so much that the laws of physics say can
be done with small diaphragm microphones. The limits are thermal noise
and low signal in the preamps and brownian motion noise related to the
diaphragms. The smaller the diaphragm the smaller the signal and the
larger the brownian motion noise in relation to the signal picked up.

I have the early H2 and an H4n Pro, and in normal use, they are
practically indistinguishable. The H2 scores by having 4 microphones
available so it is sometimes possible, with a bit of jiggery pokery, to
reduce sound levels from the back, such as audience noise and room
sound. As the H4 only has two built in microphones, this trick can't be
used.

There are also some noise reduction tricks which can be used in the
preamp if there is enough power available, but a couple of pen cells
can't provide that amount of power with a reasonable battery life.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 2/16/22 09:05, Jake T wrote:

So, I'm going to try renting a Zoom H5 for a couple of weeks. If anyone
is familiar, I would appreciate some tips before it arrives. One thing
I like is that it apparently records a double file of 12 dB less volume
if so desired. I hope I can try that with my SDHC card at 24bit/44.
May be too high a sampling rate.

It looks like it's directional when in stereo mode, but, instead of
being vertical, has to be horizontal with the top mics in the direction
of the desired sound.

On 17/02/2022 00:06, Jake T wrote:
> On 2/16/22 09:05, Jake T wrote:
>
> So, I'm going to try renting a Zoom H5 for a couple of weeks. If anyone
> is familiar, I would appreciate some tips before it arrives. One thing
> I like is that it apparently records a double file of 12 dB less volume
> if so desired. I hope I can try that with my SDHC card at 24bit/44. May
> be too high a sampling rate.
>
> It looks like it's directional when in stereo mode, but, instead of
> being vertical, has to be horizontal with the top mics in the direction
> of the desired sound.

If you read the information page on the Zoom website, you will find
there are a number of capsules available, ranging from a side facing
mono one to an end-on stereo short shotgun capsule with a short
description of each one's features. The preamps are better than the H2
and H4n ones, as they are identical to the H6

https://zoomcorp.com/en/gb/handheld-recorders/handheld-recorders/h5/

The capsule that comes with it is as standard is a 90 degree stereo
crossed XY setup, whose design means the recorder need to be end on to
the source, as do all the others except the mono capsule.

Have you read the manual which is available online?

https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_H5_0.pdf

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 17/02/2022 10:13 am, John Williamson wrote:
..
>
> There are also some noise reduction tricks which can be used in the
> preamp if there is enough power available, but a couple of pen cells
> can't provide that amount of power with a reasonable battery life.
>

Not with Alkaline, Ni-HM or Ni-Cd (remember them ?!!!) or dry-cells.

But Lithium cells make a few things more practical.

geoff

geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:

> On 17/02/2022 10:13 am, John Williamson wrote:
> .
> >
> > There are also some noise reduction tricks which can be used in the
> > preamp if there is enough power available, but a couple of pen cells
> > can't provide that amount of power with a reasonable battery life.
> >
>
> Not with Alkaline, Ni-HM or Ni-Cd (remember them ?!!!) or dry-cells.
>
> But Lithium cells make a few things more practical.

Use bigger batteies on the outside and connect them via. a couple of
bits of wooden dowel with contact screws (dummy batteries) in the
battery compartment.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 17/02/2022 22:29, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:
>
>> On 17/02/2022 10:13 am, John Williamson wrote:
>> .
>>>
>>> There are also some noise reduction tricks which can be used in the
>>> preamp if there is enough power available, but a couple of pen cells
>>> can't provide that amount of power with a reasonable battery life.
>>>
>>
>> Not with Alkaline, Ni-HM or Ni-Cd (remember them ?!!!) or dry-cells.
>>
>> But Lithium cells make a few things more practical.
>
> Use bigger batteies on the outside and connect them via. a couple of
> bits of wooden dowel with contact screws (dummy batteries) in the
> battery compartment.
>
>
All very well, bur the preamps in the recorders are designed to minimise
power consumption, not noise. For instance, the H5 adverts claim to use
Class A biasing in the preamps, but I'd guess it's as close to class B
biasing as they can get it, for instance.

On the H5, all you need is a phone type recharging power bank and a USB
lead. By using a 6 volt pack, you can connect to the mains supply point
on the H2 without any bodgery.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"bodgery". I must try to work this word into my daily lexicon.
It sounds British, is it?

It's on its way. I always use an external lithium battery with my H2,
otherwise it would never last the 12-13 hours a night I usually record.
Also, I must heat the recorder with some heat tape wrapped around it
at very low wattage; otherwise it shuts down if temps drop below
freezing for too long. The same battery and heater can be used for the
H5. Looks like the H5 has USB input for power also, so can use the USB
output from my battery.

I almost went with the H4n Pro, but it didn't have a feature I wanted to
try and that was the backup recording feature the H5 has. I want to try
recording both compressed and non-compressed audio simultaneously. I
suppose I could have used the H2 for one mode, but then more to have to
set up at the remote site and there is limited space.

The H5 should arrive here in about a week, then I have a two week rental.

On 2/17/22 03:52, John Williamson wrote:
> On 17/02/2022 00:06, Jake T wrote:
>> On 2/16/22 09:05, Jake T wrote:
>>
>> So, I'm going to try renting a Zoom H5 for a couple of weeks.  If anyone
>> is familiar, I would appreciate some tips before it arrives.  One thing
>> I like is that it apparently records a double file of 12 dB less volume
>> if so desired.  I hope I can try that with my SDHC card at 24bit/44. May
>> be too high a sampling rate.
>>
>> It looks like it's directional when in stereo mode, but, instead of
>> being vertical, has to be horizontal with the top mics in the direction
>> of the desired sound.
>
> If you read the information page on the Zoom website, you will find
> there are a number of capsules available, ranging from a side facing
> mono one to an end-on stereo short shotgun capsule with a short
> description of each one's features. The preamps are better than the H2
> and H4n ones, as they are identical to the H6
>
> https://zoomcorp.com/en/gb/handheld-recorders/handheld-recorders/h5/
>
> The capsule that comes with it is as standard is a 90 degree stereo
> crossed XY setup, whose design means the recorder need to be end on to
> the source, as do all the others except the mono capsule.
>
> Have you read the manual which is available online?
>
> https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_H5_0.pdf
>
>
Thanks, John, yes I read the manual more in detail today as I wanted to
compare the H5 with the H4n pro. I almost rented the latter, but it
lacked the back up recording feature the H5 has and I wanted to try that.
Who knows, I may like it enough to take it traveling to where I'm told
there is a lot more coyote activity. The area is away from
neighborhoods and traffic, so the H5 might shine in that case or I could
even use my dish.

On 17/02/2022 23:39, Tobiah wrote:
> "bodgery". I must try to work this word into my daily lexicon.
> It sounds British, is it?
>
You are unlikely to find it in a dictionary, but I am British.,

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Tobiah <toby@tobiah.org> wrote:

> "bodgery". I must try to work this word into my daily lexicon.
> It sounds British, is it?

The word should be "Botchery". and it is definitely British english:

"Botch: Make a clumsy patch; bungled work; repair badly. (From English
'patch' or German 'batzen'.)"

A 'Bodger' was an itinerant chair leg maker who carried a small pole
lathe on his back and turned chair legs from suitable pieces of wood
which he found in the forest. He was a skilled worker and it is a pity
that bodgery has become confused with botchery, which is highly
unskilled ( although I have raised it to a fine art on certain
occasions).

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk