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interests / sci.anthropology.paleo / St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

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* St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the riverlittor...@gmail.com
`* Re: St.Césaire NeandertPandora
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     `* Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the riPrimum Sapienti
      `* Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the rJTEM is so reasonable
       `* Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the rClaudius Denk
        `- Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the rJTEM is so reasonable

1
St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

<dd3b08b7-86ea-41af-8f84-04da6a69ceebn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: St.Césaire_Neandertal_seasonally_followed_the_river
_inland:_salmon_trek?
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Thu, 2 Feb 2023 14:16 UTC

Saint-Césaire, PA site in SW-France, where in 1979 the remains of a young adult male Hn were found buried in a small pit. The skeleton was recovered during archaeological salvage excavations at the back of the Roche-à-Pierrot rock shelter, near the village of Saint-Césaire. It was found in ass.x tools & other artifacts formerly ass.x only with early Hs, and not Hn. Despite the inland location of the site, a marine shell was found buried with the individual. ...

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Subject: Re: St.Césaire_Neandert
al_seasonally_follo
wed_the_river_inlan
d:_salmon_trek?
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 by: Pandora - Fri, 3 Feb 2023 13:15 UTC

On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 06:16:48 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Saint-Césaire, PA site in SW-France, where in 1979 the remains of a young adult
>male Hn were found buried in a small pit. The skeleton was recovered during
>archaeological salvage excavations at the back of the Roche-à-Pierrot rock shelter,
>near the village of Saint-Césaire. It was found in ass.x tools & other artifacts formerly
>ass.x only with early Hs, and not Hn. Despite the inland location of the site,
>a marine shell was found buried with the individual. ...

You can deduce all that (seasonal migration, piscivory) from a single
marine shell?
Amazing! You really are good.

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

<51a1e6f2-61da-4cdc-bfd3-6192f68d6aa7n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re:_St.Césaire_Neandertal_seasonally_followed_the_r
iver_inland:_salmon_trek?
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Fri, 3 Feb 2023 15:33 UTC

Kudu runner:

> >Saint-Césaire, PA site in SW-France, where in 1979 the remains of a young adult
> >male Hn were found buried in a small pit. The skeleton was recovered during
> >archaeological salvage excavations at the back of the Roche-à-Pierrot rock shelter,
> >near the village of Saint-Césaire. It was found in ass.x tools & other artifacts formerly
> >ass.x only with early Hs, and not Hn. Despite the inland location of the site,
> >a marine shell was found buried with the individual. ...

> You can deduce all that (seasonal migration, piscivory) from a single
> marine shell?

From a single shell??
Ah? And why does our little boy think that?

> Amazing! You really are good.

Thanks, my boy.
Unfortunately I can't say the same about you... :-DDD

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

<10dstht2sc2fb6g92apa70tr1i2sgo8jbe@4ax.com>

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Subject: Re: St.Césaire_Neandert
al_seasonally_follo
wed_the_river_inlan
d:_salmon_trek?
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 by: Pandora - Sat, 4 Feb 2023 10:31 UTC

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 07:33:57 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >Saint-Césaire, PA site in SW-France, where in 1979 the remains of a young adult
>> >male Hn were found buried in a small pit. The skeleton was recovered during
>> >archaeological salvage excavations at the back of the Roche-à-Pierrot rock shelter,
>> >near the village of Saint-Césaire. It was found in ass.x tools & other artifacts formerly
>> >ass.x only with early Hs, and not Hn. Despite the inland location of the site,
>> >a marine shell was found buried with the individual. ...
>
>> You can deduce all that (seasonal migration, piscivory) from a single
>> marine shell?
>
>From a single shell??

That's the only evidende you mention, while there really was much more
context: https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_682543

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

<b66745bd-4a00-4200-99c2-817accf1b748n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re:_St.Césaire_Neandertal_seasonally_followed_the_r
iver_inland:_salmon_trek?
From: littoral...@gmail.com (littor...@gmail.com)
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 by: littor...@gmail.com - Sat, 4 Feb 2023 13:19 UTC

> >> >Saint-Césaire, PA site in SW-France, where in 1979 the remains of a young adult
> >> >male Hn were found buried in a small pit. The skeleton was recovered during
> >> >archaeological salvage excavations at the back of the Roche-à-Pierrot rock shelter,
> >> >near the village of Saint-Césaire. It was found in ass.x tools & other artifacts formerly
> >> >ass.x only with early Hs, and not Hn. Despite the inland location of the site,
> >> >a marine shell was found buried with the individual. ...

Kudu runner:
> >> You can deduce all that (seasonal migration, piscivory) from a single
> >> marine shell?

> >From a single shell??

> That's the only evidende you mention

I'm not responsible for your selective reading... :-DDD

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

<pirstht8gl5k6agdis4tmru0pt82cms881@4ax.com>

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From: pand...@knoware.nl (Pandora)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Subject: Re: St.Césaire_Neandert
al_seasonally_follo
wed_the_river_inlan
d:_salmon_trek?
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 by: Pandora - Sat, 4 Feb 2023 14:41 UTC

On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 05:19:27 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >> >Saint-Césaire, PA site in SW-France, where in 1979 the remains of a young adult
>> >> >male Hn were found buried in a small pit. The skeleton was recovered during
>> >> >archaeological salvage excavations at the back of the Roche-à-Pierrot rock shelter,
>> >> >near the village of Saint-Césaire. It was found in ass.x tools & other artifacts formerly
>> >> >ass.x only with early Hs, and not Hn. Despite the inland location of the site,
>> >> >a marine shell was found buried with the individual. ...
>
>Kudu runner:
>> >> You can deduce all that (seasonal migration, piscivory) from a single
>> >> marine shell?
>
>> >From a single shell??
>
>> That's the only evidende you mention
>
>I'm not responsible for your selective reading... :-DDD

What else is there that would suggest seasonal migration and piscivory
at the site? You don't mention fishbones.

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

<trngtm$2cln6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Primum Sapienti)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Subject: Re:_St.Césaire_Neandertal_seasonally_followed_the_ri
ver_inland:_salmon_trek?
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 23:04:36 -0700
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 by: Primum Sapienti - Sun, 5 Feb 2023 06:04 UTC

Pandora wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 05:19:27 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
> <littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Saint-Césaire, PA site in SW-France, where in 1979 the remains of a young adult
>>>>>> male Hn were found buried in a small pit. The skeleton was recovered during
>>>>>> archaeological salvage excavations at the back of the Roche-à-Pierrot rock shelter,
>>>>>> near the village of Saint-Césaire. It was found in ass.x tools & other artifacts formerly
>>>>>> ass.x only with early Hs, and not Hn. Despite the inland location of the site,
>>>>>> a marine shell was found buried with the individual. ...
>>
>> Kudu runner:
>>>>> You can deduce all that (seasonal migration, piscivory) from a single
>>>>> marine shell?
>>
>>> >From a single shell??
>>
>>> That's the only evidende you mention
>>
>> I'm not responsible for your selective reading... :-DDD
>
> What else is there that would suggest seasonal migration and piscivory
> at the site? You don't mention fishbones.
>

In AA land, a single shell is enough to prove aquaticness. However,
real scientists do more...

From 2006 (a bit more recent)

http://perso.ens-lyon.fr/vincent.balter/Articles/Balter(JHE)06.pdf
Diet and behavior of the Saint-Ce´saire Neanderthal
inferred from biogeochemical data inversion

Abstract
Biogeochemistry is a powerful tool for dietary
reconstruction, and mixing equations can be used to
quantify the contribution of multiple sources to an
individual's diet. The goals of this paper are: 1) to
generalize the inverse method to dietary mixtures;
and 2) to reconstruct the diet of the Saint-Césaire
Neanderthal using Sr/Ca and Ba/Ca data of the mineral
fraction of bone (hydroxylapatite), and with published
δ13C and δ15N data of the associated organic fraction
of bone (collagen). A new method is proposed to
calculate the maximum diagenetic contribution of the
Sr/Ba ratio, assuming that the soil soluble fraction
is the diagenetic end-member and, for a given fraction
of diagenesis, allows the restoration of the original
Sr/Ba ratio. Considering the Saint-Césaire
Châtelperronian mammalian assemblage as the meat
source, and on the basis of available Sr, Ba, and Ca
contents of plants, the results indicate that the
percentage of plants in the Neanderthal's diet must
have been close to zero for realistic Sr and Ba
impoverishment between diet and hydroxylapatite.
Contrary to previous studies, it is shown that fish
could constitute a significant proportion (30%) of
the diet of the Saint-Césaire Neanderthal. However,
this mass balance solution is not supported by the
zooarchaeological data. When the entire faunal
assemblage is considered as the dietary source, the
calculation shows that bovids (except reindeer)
represent the greatest percentage of consumed meat
(58%), followed by horses/rhinoceros (22%), reindeer
(13%), and mammoths (7%). These respective percentages
are in close accordance with zooarchaeological records,
suggesting that the faunal assemblage associated with
the Neanderthal of Saint-Césaire reliably reflects what
he ate during the last few years of his life. In
behavioral terms, this result supports the hypothesis
that this Neanderthal carried the foodstuffs back to
the Saint-Césaire shelter before their consumption.

From the conclusion:

"In the case of the Middle-Upper Palaeolithic site of
Saint-Ce´saire, it is shown that even if 27% of the
Sr/Ba ratio of the Neanderthal could be explained by
diagenesis, plant resources did not constitute a
sizable proportion of the diet of the Neanderthal.
However, from the elemental and isotopic points of
view, it is possible that fish may have contributed
to the overall biogeochemical signature of the
Neanderthal, although this result is not supported by
zooarchaeological data. When the ungulates are pooled
according to their elemental and isotopic pattern,
their respective proportions in the diet of the
Neanderthal resemble those deduced by zooarchaeology.
This suggests that this Neanderthal brought the
foodstuffs back to the site before their consumption,
and thus did not practice passive scavenging."

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

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Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re:_St.Césaire_Neandertal_seasonally_followed_the_r
iver_inland:_salmon_trek?
From: jte...@gmail.com (JTEM is so reasonable)
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 by: JTEM is so reasonabl - Sat, 1 Apr 2023 00:52 UTC

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> In AA land, a single shell is enough to prove aquaticness. However,
> real scientists do more...

As opposed to ZERO sources for the DHA to build our brains found
on the savanna...

It's easy to make a case when you cherry pick ONE claim and avoid
every other piece of evidence, not to mention avoid trying to build a
model to account for everything...

You're a contradictionist. You're defending dogma, not making a
case.

As I told you before; "Any jackass can kick down a barn," the saying
goes, "But only a carpenter can build one." Well you're not a
carpenter and you haven't got a barn.

-- --

https://uapro.tumblr.com/post/713343256368381952/conspiracy-time-ii

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

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Subject: Re:_St.Césaire_Neandertal_seasonally_followed_the_r
iver_inland:_salmon_trek?
From: claudius...@sbcglobal.net (Claudius Denk)
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 by: Claudius Denk - Sat, 1 Apr 2023 18:19 UTC

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 5:52:51 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
> > In AA land, a single shell is enough to prove aquaticness. However,
> > real scientists do more...
> As opposed to ZERO sources for the DHA to build our brains found
> on the savanna...

You are full of shit. You are NOT an expert on brain growth. Nobody but you and other AAT idiots think that DHA is necessary for brain growth.

Your dumbass aquatic ape nonsense would have the public believe that the animals on the DHA-free (according to you) savanna should be brainless. But the fucking aren't brainless. Pull your head out of your ass you dimwitted scinence groupy!!!

Explain how savanna animals grew brains without your magical DHA.

You can't, because in actuality you are a moron who barely understands any of this!!!

CD

Re: St.Césaire Neandertal seasonally followed the river inland: salmon trek?

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Subject: Re:_St.Césaire_Neandertal_seasonally_followed_the_r
iver_inland:_salmon_trek?
From: jte...@gmail.com (JTEM is so reasonable)
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 by: JTEM is so reasonabl - Sat, 1 Apr 2023 22:10 UTC

So DHA, all by itself, is more than enough to prove Aquatic Ape.

Our brains need DHA, even now, and there's only two ways to get
it: The genetic mutation that allows us to synthesize it form ALA,
which just plain isn't that old and even today falls short of the
optimum quantity necessary, or we can get it my exploiting marine
resources.

Yeah, it absolutely positively had to be from marine resources...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/713373848091934720

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