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tech / sci.lang / [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)

SubjectAuthor
* [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)henh...@gmail.com
`* Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)Ruud Harmsen
 `* Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)Christian Weisgerber
  `* Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)henh...@gmail.com
   `- Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)Tim Lang

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[super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)

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Subject: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 18:01 UTC

i think... my high-school German teacher said [Toll !]
[Super!] a lot--------- i suppose they are like 1960's slang ( Cool, or Groovy)

‚Katjuscha‘ ist ein tolles Lied.

_________________________

[super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?) --- I'd love to find a usage example by someone famous like ....

I'm wondering... Did or would Freud, Rilke, Weber, Wagner or Marx use [super essen] in their letters

------- e.g. as: [Wir haben super gegessen dort]

_____________________

>>> Wir hatten so n Touristenladen am Rhein erwartet, und wurden mehr als positiv überrascht! Wir haben super gegessen dort, und hatten einen lieben zuvorkommenden Kellner !

Kommen wir wieder nach Köln, dann immer wieder gerne hierher!

Besuchsdatum: Juni 2020

Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2023 21:40:36 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 19:40 UTC

Sat, 3 Jun 2023 11:01:32 -0700 (PDT): "henh...@gmail.com"
<henhanna@gmail.com> scribeva:
>[super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?) --- I'd love to find a usage example by someone famous like ....

400, at least: https://www.dwds.de/wb/super

Quote:
===
super- erstes Glied in aus dem Lat. stammenden Zusammensetzungen mit
der Bedeutung ‘über alle Maßen, besonders’, entsprechend lat. super
Adv. ‘oben, darüber, (oben)darauf’, auch ‘mehr’, Präp. ‘über, oben
auf’. Im Lat. bildet super- vorwiegend verbale, aber auch nominale
Komposita, vgl. lat. superfundere ‘darüber-, daraufgießen’,
superscribere ‘darüberschreiben’, supervacuus ‘überflüssig, unnütz’,
spätlat. superglorificare ‘über die Maßen preisen’, supergloriosus
‘besonders ruhmreich’. Im Dt. wird vom 16. Jh. an super- als erstes
Kompositionsglied in nominalen Zusammensetzungen zur Bezeichnung einer
inhaltlichen Steigerung im Sinne von ‘besonders, über alle Maßen,
überdurchschnittlich’ geläufig, vgl. superfein Adj. ‘besonders,
überaus fein’ (16. Jh.), superklug Adj. ‘besonders klug,
überscharfsinnig’ (17. Jh.), dazu Superklugheit f. (18. Jh.),
superfaul Adj. ‘besonders faul’ (19. Jh.). Im 20. Jh. entstehen
Neubildungen (oft nach engl. bzw. amerik.-engl. Vorbild) wie
Superbenzin ‘Benzin mit hoher Oktanzahl’ (im Gegensatz zu
Normalbenzin), -bombe, superbraun, -billig, -schnell, Superhit,
-markt, -schau, -schiff, -star. Aus dieser Verwendung (und unter
amerik.-engl. Einfluss?) entwickelt die Umgangssprache super zum
selbständigen indeklinablen Adjektiv (20. Jh.) im Sinne von
‘hervorragend, großartig’. – Superintendent m. ‘leitender
evangelischer Pfarrer einer größeren kirchlichen Verwaltungseinheit’,
Entlehnung (16. Jh.) aus mlat. superintendens (Genitiv -intendentis),
Part. Präs. zu spätlat. superintendere ‘die Aufsicht haben’,
eigentlich also ‘Oberaufseher’ und in diesem Sinne bis ins 17. Jh.
gebraucht. Die Amtsbezeichnung innerhalb der evangelischen Kirche
entwickelt sich mit der Entstehung der evangelischen Landeskirchen (1.
Hälfte 16. Jh.). Superlativ m. Bezeichnung der zweiten
Steigerungsstufe des Adjektivs, Übernahme deutscher Grammatiker
(superlativus, um 1400, in lat. Form und Flexion bis ins 19. Jh.;
Superlativ seit 18. Jh.) von gleichbed. spätlat. superlativus (gradus)
‘höchster (Steigerungs)grad’, Intensivbildung zu lat. superlatus,
Part. Perf. von lat. superferre ‘darübertragen, -führen, -bringen,
-legen, über die Zeit hinaus tragen, den höchsten Grad bilden’. In dt.
Übersetzung der übertreter (um 1400), übertrager, der höchst
vbertrefflichst grad (15. Jh.), die oberste Stufe, höchste Staffel
(17. Jh.), dritte Staffel (18. Jh.). Heute auch allgemein, vgl. Jahr,
Film der Superlative ‘besonders herausragendes Jahr, herausragender,
nicht zu überbietender Film’.
===

Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)

<slrnu7n8e0.2n6h.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <slrnu7n8e0.2n6h.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 20:25 UTC

On 2023-06-03, Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:

>>[super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?) --- I'd love to find a usage example by someone famous like ....
>
> 400, at least: https://www.dwds.de/wb/super

Actually, only since sometime in the last century:

> Aus dieser Verwendung (und unter amerik.-engl. Einfluss?) entwickelt
> die Umgangssprache super zum selbständigen indeklinablen Adjektiv
> (20. Jh.) im Sinne von ‘hervorragend, großartig’.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)

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Subject: Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)
From: henha...@gmail.com (henh...@gmail.com)
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 by: henh...@gmail.com - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 22:15 UTC

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:30:06 PM UTC-7, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-06-03, Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com> wrote:
>
> >>[super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?) --- I'd love to find a usage example by someone famous like ....
> >
> > 400, at least: https://www.dwds.de/wb/super
> Actually, only since sometime in the last century:

Freud, Rilke,... --- in their most casual moments (say, in the 1920s), what would they say
when [they just had a Super (Cool, Groovy) lunch or meal] ?

ChatGPT (3.5) says:

In German (in the 1920s), some casual ways to say "We had a great meal!" or "The lunch was great!" could be:

- "Das Essen war wirklich köstlich!" (The food was really delicious!)

- "Wir haben heute vorzüglich gespeist!" (We had an excellent meal today!)

- "Das Mittagessen war hervorragend!" (The lunch was outstanding!)

- "Das war ein wahrer Gaumenschmaus!" (That was a true feast for the senses!)

- "Wir haben uns köstlich amüsiert und vorzüglich gegessen!" (We had a delightful time and ate excellently!)

Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)

<u5gj2m$3mj73$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@privacy.net (Tim Lang)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: [super essen] ---- (has this been around for 100 years?)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 01:41:08 +0200
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 by: Tim Lang - Sat, 3 Jun 2023 23:41 UTC

On 04.06.2023 00:15, henh...@gmail.com wrote:

>ChatGPT (3.5) says:

Oh, well. :)

> In German (in the 1920s), some casual ways to say "We had a great meal!" or "The lunch was great!" could be:
>
> - "Das Essen war wirklich köstlich!" (The food was really delicious!)
>
> - "Wir haben heute vorzüglich gespeist!" (We had an excellent meal today!)
>
> - "Das Mittagessen war hervorragend!" (The lunch was outstanding!)
>
> - "Das war ein wahrer Gaumenschmaus!" (That was a true feast for the senses!)
>
> - "Wir haben uns köstlich amüsiert und vorzüglich gegessen!" (We had a delightful time and ate excellently!)

This is not vernacular, but rather "artificial" German or, as they say,
"papierenes Deutsch". Only snobbish, "Etepetete" people, or those who
wanna show (off) they belong to the "upper class."

Most people would simply say: "Es hat (mir/uns) geschmeckt". And instead
of "köstlich amüsiert" "es hat (mir/uns) Spaß gemacht / ich/wir habe/n
Spaß" (or "Gschbass" in many Southern areas) "gehabt" (or "kopt"). (Etc,
zB reginally "sakrisch guad!" :))

The AI-application seemingly copies from written texts (perhaps fiction
literatury mostly) and combines, improvises & the like. Not (yet) being
able to pay heed to situations, esp. social ones, esp. at least to
differentiate.

Especially the hint: "the twenties" is significant: in those years,
almost none dared print written dialogs as they were in the genuine
vernacular. In contrast with the last 40-50 years, when even the
worst kinda German (incl. curses and cusses of all kind, i.e. fecal
and anal language) has been "salonfähig" everywhere (newspapers, books,
radio & tv broadcasting - let alone on the Net).

In many cases, in this context, "köstlich","gespeist", "hervorragend"
"vorzüglich" might be interpreted as a ... mockery or pulling one's leg,
if the environment/society/situation isn't the appropriate one. The
sentences above rather fit some fiction literature dialogs, in some
novels and and in some theater dramas or comedies. "Gaumenschmaus" might
be rather in use in colloquial talk; although almost everybody knows
that the "Gaumen" (palate) has no cells for tasting whatsoever, and
that those kind of cells are placed by nature on the tongue exclusively
(in the small spots called "Geschmacksknospen" in German, i.e., "taste
buds").

Most German-speaking areas (with very few exceptions; rather social
ones) talk colloquial and even slang German; but most areas rather
talk in dialects (some quite close to "High German," but some as
remote as Dutch, Danish, Swedish or the Swiss Alemanian subdialects).
Often combined with some slangy idiomatic phrases. In fact, "High
German" is kind of an "artificial" German ("papierenes Deutsch").

Tim

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