Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their
location private, according to newly unredacted court documents.

Even Google execs and employees in charge of location data were
confused about how privacy settings worked.

Google was sued by Arizona's attorney general over its data
collection practices last year.

See more stories on Insider's business page.

Newly unredacted documents in a lawsuit against Google reveal
that the company's own executives and engineers knew just how
difficult the company had made it for smartphone users to keep
their location data private.

Google continued collecting location data even when users turned
off various location-sharing settings, made popular privacy
settings harder to find, and even pressured LG and other phone
makers into hiding settings precisely because users liked them,
according to the documents.

Jack Menzel, a former vice president overseeing Google Maps,
admitted during a deposition that the only way Google wouldn't
be able to figure out a user's home and work locations is if
that person intentionally threw Google off the trail by setting
their home and work addresses as some other random locations.

Jen Chai, a Google senior product manager in charge of location
services, didn't know how the company's complex web of privacy
settings interacted with each other, according to the documents.

Google and LG did not respond to requests for comment on this
story.

The documents are part of a lawsuit brought against Google by
the Arizona attorney general's office last year, which accused
the company of illegally collecting location data from
smartphone users even after they opted out.

A judge ordered new sections of the documents to be unredacted
last week in response to a request by trade groups Digital
Content Next and News Media Alliance, which argued that it was
in the public's interest to know and that Google was using its
legal resources to suppress scrutiny of its data collection
practices.

The unsealed versions of the documents paint an even more
detailed picture of how Google obscured its data collection
techniques, confusing not just its users but also its own
employees.

Google uses a variety of avenues to collect user location data,
according to the documents, including WiFi and even third-party
apps not affiliated with Google, forcing users to share their
data in order to use those apps or, in some cases, even connect
their phones to WiFi.

"So there is no way to give a third party app your location and
not Google?" one employee said, according to the documents,
adding: "This doesn't sound like something we would want on the
front page of the [New York Times]."

When Google tested versions of its Android operating system that
made privacy settings easier to find, users took advantage of
them, which Google viewed as a "problem," according to the
documents. To solve that problem, Google then sought to bury
those settings deeper within the settings menu.

Google also tried to convince smartphone makers to hide location
settings "through active misrepresentations and/or concealment,
suppression, or omission of facts" - that is, data Google had
showing that users were using those settings - "in order to
assuage [manufacturers'] privacy concerns."

Google employees appeared to recognize that users were
frustrated by the company's aggressive data collection
practices, potentially hurting its business.

"Fail #2: *I* should be able to get *my* location on *my* phone
without sharing that information with Google," one employee said.

"This may be how Apple is eating our lunch," they added, saying
Apple was "much more likely" to let users take advantage of
location-based apps and services on their phones without sharing
the data with Apple.

Read the original article on Business Insider

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apple-eating-lunch-google-employees-
021605239.html

On 5/29/2021 11:31 PM, cricket wrote:
> Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their
> location private, according to newly unredacted court documents.

Actually quite easy on Android to spoof your location. No rooting
required. There's a Developer Option to enable mock locations and free
apps to use this feature.

At least one VPN (Surfshark) lets you set your mock location to the same
place as their VPN server
<https://support.surfshark.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011517640-How-to-enable-the-GPS-override-function-#:>.

Apparently some people use the GPS override to bypass geographic
restrictions on services like Hulu where just using a VPN alone isn't
sufficient because Hulu looks at the GPS location of the device (for
phones, obviously not for computers without a GPS or Wi-Fi only iPads
(most Android tablets, even those without a cellular modem, still have a
GPS)).

Mock GPS locations aren't an option on iPhones (unless the iPhone is
jailbroken) or on iPads with a cellular modem.

In article <s9k8bi$m9a$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Mock GPS locations aren't an option on iPhones (unless the iPhone is
> jailbroken) or on iPads with a cellular modem.

false

nospam wrote on 06.06.2021 20:50
>> Mock GPS locations aren't an option on iPhones (unless the iPhone is
>> jailbroken) or on iPads with a cellular modem.
>
> false

Let's do a quick test to see if *nospam is full of shit* again, shall we?
(He's used to Apple newsgroups where the bar for facts is set very low.)

*I have an iOS device with GPS right here in front of me.*
What free ad free mock location app do you suggest I get from the App Store?

When I search in the App Store there's an app named "Change My Location FREE
- Location Faker" by Lucas Yamashita which has a 1.4 and terrible reviews
(which say it doesn't do what it claims to say it does).

Only one other app was found in my "mock location" search which had even
_worse_ reviews (1.3) and also said it doesn't do what it claims.

Both Steve and I read multiple articles that said there is no mock location
app that actually fakes the GPS location so it's not surprising nospam
imagines there is one.

Nospam hates that iOS can't do even the simplest things Android easily does.
Hence nospam _always_ fabricate functionality for iOS that doesn't exist.

Let's all hold our breath to see how nospam response to a simple request
that if he's so confident that a free ad free app exists (or any app exists)
that actually mocks the GPS location on iOS - then tell us what it is.
--
(Expect silence or childish insults from nospam when asked adult questions.)

paul wrote on 07.06.2021 20:02
> Let's do a quick test to see if *nospam is full of shit* again, shall we?
> (He's used to Apple newsgroups where the bar for facts is set very low.)
>
> *I have an iOS device with GPS right here in front of me.*
> What free ad free mock location app do you suggest I get from the App Store?

The expected silence from nospam is (at least) better than the expected
childish insults from nospam when he's asked to simply back up his claims.

Why does nospam always claim functionality for iOS that doesn't even exist?
I don't know why.

I think perhaps he just _hates_ that iOS doesn't have this functionality.
The sad thing is that he _believes_ what he claims (even sans any facts).
--
Nospam is like those flat earthers who truly believe the earth is flat.

This Android OS is quite good and is continuously being updated.
I have switched to it. De-googled Android OS.

https://calyxos.org/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CalyxOS/new/

anon wrote on 12.07.2021 07:0
> This Android OS is quite good and is continuously being updated.
> I have switched to it. De-googled Android OS.
> https://calyxos.org/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CalyxOS/new/

While replacing the entire operating system works fine for Android...
A less radical option is to easily de-google without needing to root.
1. Don't set up any accounts on the phone
2. Replace each key Google app with FOSS privacy based apps
3. Disable as many permissions to as many google modules as you can
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. are all ashamed by the fact Apple is never what it said it was.

Am 12.07.21 um 14:08 schrieb anon:
> This Android OS is quite good and is continuously being updated.
> I have switched to it. De-googled Android OS.
>
> https://calyxos.org/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CalyxOS/new/

This alone disqualifies Android for serious private and business use.

Am 12.07.21 um 15:42 schrieb paul:
> anon wrote on 12.07.2021 07:0
>> This Android OS is quite good and is continuously being updated.
>> I have switched to it. De-googled Android OS.
>> https://calyxos.org/
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/CalyxOS/new/
>
> While replacing the entire operating system works fine for Android...
> A less radical option is to easily de-google without needing to root.
> 1. Don't set up any accounts on the phone
> 2. Replace each key Google app with FOSS privacy based apps
> 3. Disable as many permissions to as many google modules as you can

This makes an Android device completely unusable and ist ridiculous.
Might be sufficient for paulie's kindergarten needs ... *ROTFLSTC*

In article <scm82b$66v$1@dont-email.me>
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
> Am 12.07.21 um 14:08 schrieb anon:
> > This Android OS is quite good and is continuously being updated.
> > I have switched to it. De-googled Android OS.
> >
> > https://calyxos.org/
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/CalyxOS/new/
>
> This alone disqualifies Android for serious private and business use.

Right, and we're going to embrace a piece of junk made by Apple
to run and manage businesses?

iPhones are for social media whore retards. That's all they are
good for.

On 2021-07-14 2:24 a.m., Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> In article <scm82b$66v$1@dont-email.me>
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>> Am 12.07.21 um 14:08 schrieb anon:
>>> This Android OS is quite good and is continuously being updated.
>>> I have switched to it. De-googled Android OS.
>>>
>>> https://calyxos.org/
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/CalyxOS/new/
>>
>> This alone disqualifies Android for serious private and business use.
>
> Right, and we're going to embrace a piece of junk made by Apple
> to run and manage businesses?
>
> iPhones are for social media whore retards. That's all they are
> good for.
>

Wow.

With a cogent argument like that...

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 14.07.2021 10:45
>> While replacing the entire operating system works fine for Android...
>> A less radical option is to easily de-google without needing to root.
>> 1. Don't set up any accounts on the phone
>> 2. Replace each key Google app with FOSS privacy based apps
>> 3. Disable as many permissions to as many google modules as you can
>
> This makes an Android device completely unusable and ist ridiculous.
> Might be sufficient for paulie's kindergarten needs ... *ROTFLSTC*

WTF?
*Why are Apple apologists like Jeorg Lorenz so utterly ignorant of Android?*

My phone is vastly _more_ functional using the FOSS Google replacements
than it would have been had I been using only those Google apps instead.

Since I'm not like Joeg, I prove what I say, which is why my credibility is
stellar. For one (of many) examples, the "NewPipe" YouTube replacement is so
much more functional it's like YouTube on steroids.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zqptz2MQ/share02.jpg>

*Almost everything NewPipe does is _impossible_ to do with Google YouTube.*
<https://i.postimg.cc/g0wQpDwx/newpipe01.jpg>
(Once you use the NewPipe scraper, you'll _never_ want YouTube ever again!)
<https://i.postimg.cc/90BNbgkn/newpipe03.jpg>

As another example, to prove what I say, using the Aurora FOSS replacement
for the Google Play store client is like Google Play the way it should be.
<https://i.postimg.cc/zf8ybgYB/apk01.jpg>

*Almost everything Aurora does is _impossible_ to do with a Google client.*
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTdMwgnW/apk02.jpg>
(Once you use the Aurora scraper, you'll _never_ want GP ever again!)
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvF024NZ/apk03.jpg>

In summary, only these ignorant Apple apologists like Joerg Lorenz are
unaware there is a one-to-one _better_ replacement for almost every Google
app out there - where - contrary to what Joerg says - the functionality of
Android is vastly improved by using these FOSS Google replacement apps.

Whom do you trust on credibility of stated facts? Joerg Lorenz or me?
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. are all fantastically ignorant of the simplest Android features.

Fritz Wuehler wrote on 14.07.2021 11:24
>> This alone disqualifies Android for serious private and business use.
> Right, and we're going to embrace a piece of junk made by Apple
> to run and manage businesses?
>
> iPhones are for social media whore retards. That's all they are
> good for.

*The list of things we do every day that are _impossible_ on iOS, is huge.*

The iPhone is so brain dead that we, on Android, do scores of things a day
which are literally _impossible_ to do on the iPhone toys apologists use.
*Existing app functionality which is free on Android*
*and yet which doesn't even exist for iOS*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/dpen5KKvpkU>

The iOS homescreen launcher is so primitive it has never been improved upon
since the archaic stone age of smartphone designs - where it can't even put
the users' icons on any grid they want and save it for re-use on all phones.

On the iPhone, they can't even debug their own WiFi or cellular using free
FOSS wireless network debugging tools, they can't automatically record phone
calls, they can't watch YouTube videos without ads, they can't automatically
save IPAs upon installation, even backup and restore apps already on their
devices to any other device, even if that specific app version they love is
no longer on the app store.

*The list of things we do every day that are _impossible_ on iOS, is huge.*

And yet, there isn't a _single_ app functionality on iOS not already on
Android, for a simple, logical, sensible, and rational reason.
1. Apple limits what the market can provide to the iOS user
2. Google can't.
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. are ashamed & embarrassed at the utter lack of iOS functionality.

On 2021-07-14 12:13 p.m., paul wrote:
> Fritz Wuehler wrote on 14.07.2021 11:24
>>> This alone disqualifies Android for serious private and business use.
>> Right, and we're going to embrace a piece of junk made by Apple
>> to run and manage businesses?
>>
>> iPhones are for social media whore retards. That's all they are
>> good for.
>
> *The list of things we do every day that are _impossible_ on iOS, is huge.*
>
> The iPhone is so brain dead that we, on Android, do scores of things a day
> which are literally _impossible_ to do on the iPhone toys apologists use.
> *Existing app functionality which is free on Android*
> *and yet which doesn't even exist for iOS*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/dpen5KKvpkU>
>
> The iOS homescreen launcher is so primitive it has never been improved upon
> since the archaic stone age of smartphone designs - where it can't even put
> the users' icons on any grid they want and save it for re-use on all phones.

How many people have more than one phone?

>
> On the iPhone, they can't even debug their own WiFi or cellular using free
> FOSS wireless network debugging tools, they can't automatically record phone
> calls, they can't watch YouTube videos without ads, they can't automatically
> save IPAs upon installation, even backup and restore apps already on their
> devices to any other device, even if that specific app version they love is
> no longer on the app store.

Most users don't need or want to debug WiFi or cellular.

>
> *The list of things we do every day that are _impossible_ on iOS, is huge.*
>
> And yet, there isn't a _single_ app functionality on iOS not already on
> Android, for a simple, logical, sensible, and rational reason.
> 1. Apple limits what the market can provide to the iOS user
> 2. Google can't.

Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.

:-)

On 7/14/2021 10:15 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.

As does Donald Trump.

On 2021-07-14 1:54 p.m., Heron wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 10:15 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.
>
> As does Donald Trump.

That you can compare the two says a lot more about you than it does
about reality.

On 7/14/2021 4:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.
>>
>> As does Donald Trump.
>
> That you can compare the two says a lot more about you than it does
> about reality.

If the only good thing you can claim about Apple is that it has loyal
followers, how is your claim any different from anyone claiming that Trump
has loyal followers too?

Being loyal doesn't make anyone smart.
In fact, being loyal to Apple is just as dumb as being loyal to Trump is.

Both only have radical loyal followers who are imbecilic cult followers.

On 2021-07-14 2:14 p.m., Heron wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 4:00 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.
>>>
>>> As does Donald Trump.
>>
>> That you can compare the two says a lot more about you than it does
>> about reality.
>
> If the only good thing you can claim about Apple is that it has loyal
> followers, how is your claim any different from anyone claiming that Trump
> has loyal followers too?

An iPhone isn't a politician.

>
> Being loyal doesn't make anyone smart.
> In fact, being loyal to Apple is just as dumb as being loyal to Trump is.

People are loyal to products for very different reasons than they are
loyal to politicians

>
> Both only have radical loyal followers who are imbecilic cult followers.

On 7/14/2021 1:54 PM, Heron wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 10:15 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.
>
> As does Donald Trump.

In the U.S., a majority of people are buying iPhones (currently 54%
iPhone to 46% Android). Donald Trump has never gotten a majority of
votes. In the most recent election it was Biden 51.3% to Trump 46.9%.

However when Obama dumped his Blackberry he moved to a Samsung Galaxy
phone because of the presence of KNOX technology which includes secure
boot. But Obama also had a specially modified iPad. Reportedly Obama's
Android phone had a specially modified OS. Trump was once an iPhone
user, then he called for a boycott of Apple and switched to Android when
Apple refused to unlock an iPhone (as demanded by the FBI), but
reportedly he is back to an iPhone now. Not sure about Biden's phone,
but he does have an Apple Watch.

In article <scovs3$vtg$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Trump was once an iPhone
> user, then he called for a boycott of Apple and switched to Android when
> Apple refused to unlock an iPhone (as demanded by the FBI),

that was *before* he was elected, when he was using android.

after trump was elected, he was given an iphone.

also, apple has *no* way to unlock any iphone. full stop.

apple has *no* way to know what passcodes people use, and without that,
there's *nothing* they can do.

what the fbi did was request that apple to add a back door so that the
fbi could crack it, thereby setting a legal precedent so that in the
future, *any* smartphone, ios or android, could be unlocked. that's
*bad*. the fbi also lied under oath about having 'tried everything to
unlock it'. they realized just how deep they dug themselves a hole, so
the fbi withdrew the case and unlocked it on their own, what they said
they couldn't do.

On 7/14/2021 7:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> An iPhone isn't a politician.

Apple on both throttling & right to repair just like Trump lies on the vote.

Apple lost in many legal systems all around the world and on this second set
of lies Apple hopefully will lose soon based on Biden's recent moves for
right to repair consumer protection laws which Apple doesn't want to happen.

You believe Apple's lies just like Trump supporters believe his lies.

>> Being loyal doesn't make anyone smart.
>> In fact, being loyal to Apple is just as dumb as being loyal to Trump is.
>
> People are loyal to products for very different reasons than they are
> loyal to politicians.

Advertising is no different than political propaganda.

Being a loyal Trump supporter means you believe Trump's lies.
Being a loyal Apple supporter means you believe Apple's lies.

Both will lose in court.

On 7/15/2021 4:41 AM, sms wrote:
>>> Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.
>>
>> As does Donald Trump.
>
> In the U.S., a majority of people are buying iPhones (currently 54%
> iPhone to 46% Android). Donald Trump has never gotten a majority of
> votes. In the most recent election it was Biden 51.3% to Trump 46.9%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin
Donald Trump 56.5% to Hillary Clinton 46.1% (2016)

The loyal supporters of Trump (54% of the US vote) believe Trump's lies.
The loyal supporters of Apple (54% of the US owners) believe Apple's lies.

> However when Obama dumped his Blackberry he moved to a Samsung Galaxy
> phone because of the presence of KNOX technology which includes secure
> boot. But Obama also had a specially modified iPad. Reportedly Obama's
> Android phone had a specially modified OS. Trump was once an iPhone
> user, then he called for a boycott of Apple and switched to Android when
> Apple refused to unlock an iPhone (as demanded by the FBI), but
> reportedly he is back to an iPhone now. Not sure about Biden's phone,
> but he does have an Apple Watch.

Being loyal to Apple (54%) is no different than being loyal to Trump (54%).
You can only be loyal if you're stupid enough to believe their many lies.

On 7/15/2021 8:39 AM, Heron wrote:
> On 7/15/2021 4:41 AM, sms wrote:
>>>> Yet iPhones have tremendous customer loyalty.
>>>
>>> As does Donald Trump.
>>
>> In the U.S., a majority of people are buying iPhones (currently 54%
>> iPhone to 46% Android). Donald Trump has never gotten a majority of
>> votes. In the most recent election it was Biden 51.3% to Trump 46.9%.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin
>
> Donald Trump 56.5% to Hillary Clinton 46.1% (2016)

Uh, you got that backwards. Trump got 46.1%, Clinton got 48.2%. A
Republican hasn't won the popular vote for president since 2004.

Am 14.07.21 um 17:38 schrieb Alan Baker:
> On 2021-07-14 2:24 a.m., Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>> In article <scm82b$66v$1@dont-email.me>
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>> This alone disqualifies Android for serious private and business use.
>>
>> Right, and we're going to embrace a piece of junk made by Apple
>> to run and manage businesses?
>>
>> iPhones are for social media whore retards. That's all they are
>> good for.
>>
>
> Wow.
>
> With a cogent argument like that...

;-)

Am 14.07.21 um 21:13 schrieb paul:
> Fritz Wuehler wrote on 14.07.2021 11:24
>>> This alone disqualifies Android for serious private and business use.
>> Right, and we're going to embrace a piece of junk made by Apple
>> to run and manage businesses?
>>
>> iPhones are for social media whore retards. That's all they are
>> good for.
>
> *The list of things we do every day that are _impossible_ on iOS, is huge.*
>
> The iPhone is so brain dead that we, on Android, do scores of things a day
> which are literally _impossible_ to do on the iPhone toys apologists use.
> *Existing app functionality which is free on Android*
> *and yet which doesn't even exist for iOS*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/dpen5KKvpkU>

It is inevitable: Paulie misses the point once more.