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tech / alt.engineering.electrical / Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

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* Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer ingfretwell
`* Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer inPasieka
 `* Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer ingfretwell
  `* Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and noDimitris Tzortzakakis
   +* Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer ingfretwell
   |`- Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer inmark.pasieka@gmail.com
   `- Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer inmark.pasieka@gmail.com

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Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

<561vdhl62lma3npih7g34abflfu9dfmjhd@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 02:10:09 -0400
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Tue, 26 Jul 2022 06:10 UTC

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 06:01:26 +0000, Pasieka
<1e8dbacd6cbe854c1c2e33544319180f@example.com> wrote:

>looking for a run capacitor to the 5 HP Doerr motor powering the families air compressor... no-one knows or has documentation as to what is supposed to be... and the cap in it is rusted beyond legibility. compressor is Emglo model Y5B-80V serial 102588029 powered by a Doerr 5HP Motor 5 hp probably made 1988 as that is when the
pressure tank was made. the UL and CSA file on it is LR13758 label reads: 5HP 1 Phase 1740 Rpm m184t frame Mtr ref: r75334af881 thinking this is like a model number... 60Hetz, 230 volts, 23.0 amps, SF amps 24.5, SF 1.15 insulation class BR type TX KVA code G and then a final long number in the bottom right that is not labeled is
20(B or 8)046370200 ....it says everything but does not tell me the capacitor sizes. would appreciate a call if someone can educate me on this.. wife is pissed the compressor is still preventing me from finishing cleaning the garage... I am at the point where I want to simply measure current draw and try to dial in a size
iteratively.
>however, I am not sure what my target characteristic setup should be and I am hoping you would advise 773-2258558 is my cell Mark...I used formulas from websites and calculated 98uF if its 84 percent efficient and 91uF if its 78 percent efficient but the efficiency is not specified and I dont know how to extract it from the data
available... more importantly another website says a 5hp run cap is never over 40uF so I am begging for help.. will venmo or quickpay BEER MONEY! already replaced bearing and cleaned and painted this compressor up..
>snippits from emails I sent to allot of people that may be applicable but basically someone has this motor and if they could remove the cover and tell me what the cap is supposed to be I WOULD LOVE YOU FOR IT
>
>since the efficiency is not specified on the label I am uncomfortable doing the calculation with a 75percent approximation which also gives me an uncomfortable 88.14uF Capacitor and it goes up from there...98.71uF for 84 percent efficiency using this formula....
>
>The single-phase capacitance C(µF) in microfarad is equal to 1000 times the product of power P(W) in watts and efficiency η divided by the product of voltage V(V) in volts square and the frequency F(Hz). The formula for calculating capacitor value is
>
>C(µF) = (P(W) x η x 1000) / (V(V) x V(V) x f)
>
>found on this website calculator:
>
>Single phase Motor Capacitor Calculation calculator | Electrical4u
>
>Maybe this was supposed to be a starting capacitance? but what's in there now is much bigger. This has been occupying my mind for months
>and months', searching for a solution...wife is going nuts so i have to finish this compressor off to finish the garage clean up... thinking of trying a 30 uF and then increasing receiving current draw by trial and error on the two legs of the single phase electrical connection and searching for the capacitance value resulting in
smallest current but I am just guessing at this point ... what I am thinking is the motor actually spun over in the winter with the blown capacitor so as long as I do not exceed the capacitance I believe I won't damage the motor, I really would appreciate learning a good method of getting to a value as this is not the first time
in my life this would have been useful and I'm pretty sure it won't be the last..... I am in a dangerous state, I don't know what I don't know.
>https://www.polytechforum.com/img/n9n
>https://www.polytechforum.com/img/n9p
>https://www.polytechforum.com/img/n9r
>https://www.polytechforum.com/img/n9t
>https://www.polytechforum.com/img/n9v
>https://www.polytechforum.com/img/n9x

Do you have a clamp amp meter? Try some close to your computation and
shoot for the lowest current under a load. (like tank about half
full). The current will be a bell curve over the pressure.

Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

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From: 1e8dbacd...@example.com (Pasieka)
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Subject: Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available
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 by: Pasieka - Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:01 UTC

BEll curve...That's is a useful insight thank you... wanted to get some data logging current meters and rpm meters to work together so I can plot and get a better idea of iterative capacity values and performance / operational chacteristics.. was going to do the pump as a load without building pressure until I get closer to what I am hoping the correct value will be... thinking back emf voltage on the capacitor would also be relavent but do not know what to expect... maybe I will collect data on another working compressor with a 3 hp motor i have access too and know the original capacitor values of and then start working on the 5 hp..... any advice is appreciated... need to get a student copy of labview and get my daughter to install it... it's been years.. wonder if I will remember how to do the DAta acquisition... and I my old NI USB-6008 can still be used or if it's to old for current support....

--
For full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/electrical/run-capacitor-sizing-cannot-determine-original-size-and-no-1550939-.htm

Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

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From: gfretw...@aol.com
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Subject: Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2022 16:18:27 -0400
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Mon, 1 Aug 2022 20:18 UTC

On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 19:01:35 +0000, Pasieka
<1e8dbacd6cbe854c1c2e33544319180f@example.com> wrote:

>BEll curve...That's is a useful insight thank you... wanted to get some data logging current meters and rpm meters to work together so I can plot and get a better idea of iterative capacity values and performance / operational chacteristics.. was going to do the pump as a load without building pressure until I get closer to what I am hoping the correct value will be... thinking back emf voltage on the capacitor would also be relavent but do not know what to expect... maybe I will collect data on another working compressor with a 3 hp motor i have access too and know the original capacitor values of and then start working on the 5 hp..... any advice is appreciated... need to get a student copy of labview and get my daughter to install it... it's been years.. wonder if I will remember how to do the DAta acquisition... and I my old NI USB-6008 can still be used or if it's to old for current support....

I was playing with my 3HP compressor in a similar situation. The run
cap burnt beyond recognition. I had a box of capacitors and used the
trial and error method to pick a size based on current draw at about
half the rated pressure., That seems to be when it actually draws the
most. As the pressure starts reaching max the current actually drops
because you are moving less air and doing less work. That is similar
to why a vacuum cleaner actually speeds up when you block the air
flow.
I started around 40 MFD as I recall and ended up at 50.

Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

<tcb3r8$1fok0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: noo...@nospam.com (Dimitris Tzortzakakis)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical
Subject: Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no
manufacturer info is available
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 by: Dimitris Tzortzakaki - Tue, 2 Aug 2022 12:03 UTC

Στις 1/8/2022 11:18 μ.μ., ο/η gfretwell@aol.com έγραψε:
> On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 19:01:35 +0000, Pasieka
> <1e8dbacd6cbe854c1c2e33544319180f@example.com> wrote:
>
>> BEll curve...That's is a useful insight thank you... wanted to get some data logging current meters and rpm meters to work together so I can plot and get a better idea of iterative capacity values and performance / operational chacteristics.. was going to do the pump as a load without building pressure until I get closer to what I am hoping the correct value will be... thinking back emf voltage on the capacitor would also be relavent but do not know what to expect... maybe I will collect data on another working compressor with a 3 hp motor i have access too and know the original capacitor values of and then start working on the 5 hp..... any advice is appreciated... need to get a student copy of labview and get my daughter to install it... it's been years.. wonder if I will remember how to do the DAta acquisition... and I my old NI USB-6008 can still be used or if it's to old for current support....
>
> I was playing with my 3HP compressor in a similar situation. The run
> cap burnt beyond recognition. I had a box of capacitors and used the
> trial and error method to pick a size based on current draw at about
> half the rated pressure., That seems to be when it actually draws the
> most. As the pressure starts reaching max the current actually drops
> because you are moving less air and doing less work. That is similar
> to why a vacuum cleaner actually speeds up when you block the air
> flow.
> I started around 40 MFD as I recall and ended up at 50.
google is your friend.

https://air-compressor-help.com/how-to-size-a-run-capacitor-for-air-compressor/
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+calculate+run+capacitor+size+for+a+compressor&rlz=1C1GIWA_enGR882GR882&oq=how+to+calculate+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0i512j69i59j0i512l7.15053j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2022 14:09:17 -0400
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Tue, 2 Aug 2022 18:09 UTC

On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 15:03:48 +0300, Dimitris Tzortzakakis
<noone@nospam.com> wrote:

>???? 1/8/2022 11:18 ?.?., ?/? gfretwell@aol.com ??????:
>> On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 19:01:35 +0000, Pasieka
>> <1e8dbacd6cbe854c1c2e33544319180f@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> BEll curve...That's is a useful insight thank you... wanted to get some data logging current meters and rpm meters to work together so I can plot and get a better idea of iterative capacity values and performance / operational chacteristics.. was going to do the pump as a load without building pressure until I get closer to what I am hoping the correct value will be... thinking back emf voltage on the capacitor would also be relavent but do not know what to expect... maybe I will collect data on another working compressor with a 3 hp motor i have access too and know the original capacitor values of and then start working on the 5 hp..... any advice is appreciated... need to get a student copy of labview and get my daughter to install it... it's been years.. wonder if I will remember how to do the DAta acquisition... and I my old NI USB-6008 can still be used or if it's to old for current support....
>>
>> I was playing with my 3HP compressor in a similar situation. The run
>> cap burnt beyond recognition. I had a box of capacitors and used the
>> trial and error method to pick a size based on current draw at about
>> half the rated pressure., That seems to be when it actually draws the
>> most. As the pressure starts reaching max the current actually drops
>> because you are moving less air and doing less work. That is similar
>> to why a vacuum cleaner actually speeds up when you block the air
>> flow.
>> I started around 40 MFD as I recall and ended up at 50.
>google is your friend.
>
>https://air-compressor-help.com/how-to-size-a-run-capacitor-for-air-compressor/
>https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+calculate+run+capacitor+size+for+a+compressor&rlz=1C1GIWA_enGR882GR882&oq=how+to+calculate+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0i512j69i59j0i512l7.15053j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I just looked and add 100 to the numbers I posted. I am running a 150
(not 50) and when I went to 162 (the next higher I could make with the
caps I had) current actually increased. I used the calc and I get to
190 MFD. The FLA marked on the motor is higher than actual readings so
that may explain it. My guess is this motor was over sized for the
application and never actually gets close to FLA. The bottom line is
you want the one that makes the motor most efficient over the range it
runs in.

Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

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Subject: Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available
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 by: mark.pasieka@gmail.c - Wed, 3 Aug 2022 19:15 UTC

your link is broken... but more importantly. GOOGLE IS NOT MY FRIEND.. and you know that as well I hope... tried online calcs... they are say 80 plus microfarads... something is not right...

--
For full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/electrical/run-capacitor-sizing-cannot-determine-original-size-and-no-1550939-.htm

Re: run capacitor sizing ? cannot determine original size and no manufacturer info is available

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Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 19:15:03 +0000
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 by: mark.pasieka@gmail.c - Wed, 3 Aug 2022 19:15 UTC

full load amps continuous would most probably damage a motor.... I think you have a capacitive start motor. I am dealing with a capacitive run capacitive start... slightly bigger single-phase motor... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xqxFkFUNXw

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For full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/electrical/run-capacitor-sizing-cannot-determine-original-size-and-no-1550939-.htm

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server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor