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tech / rec.audio.pro / Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Anders Nielsen
`* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Scott Dorsey
 `* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Chuck
  `* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Scott Dorsey
   `* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Jeff Hecht
    `* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Scott Dorsey
     `* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Jeff Hecht
      `* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?ray brodeur
       +* Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?ray brodeur
       |`- Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?geoff
       `- Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?Scott Dorsey

1
Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
From: forstuvn...@gmail.com (Anders Nielsen)
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 by: Anders Nielsen - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 20:03 UTC

Hi
I’m from the future! Thank you so much for all the advice. My TC-252w can now celebrate 50 years anniversary in style :)
The pinch roller arm was greased 100% stuck, needed lube everywhere else and needed some adjustment but now it’s almost there.. still running slower when it’s warm but that might be the take up idler that’s too tight on the motor shaft.. if not the motors’ about to die,

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
Date: 27 Mar 2022 20:22:12 -0000
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 by: Scott Dorsey - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 20:22 UTC

Anders Nielsen <forstuvning@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi=20
>I=E2=80=99m from the future! Thank you so much for all the advice. My TC-2=
>52w can now celebrate 50 years anniversary in style :)
>The pinch roller arm was greased 100% stuck, needed lube everywhere else an=
>d needed some adjustment but now it=E2=80=99s almost there.. still running =
>slower when it=E2=80=99s warm but that might be the take up idler that=E2=
>=80=99s too tight on the motor shaft.. if not the motors=E2=80=99 about to =
>die,

Replace the pinch roller and if there is an internal idler, replace that too.
Those are wear items that just need to be done every five or ten years.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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From: chuc...@dejanews.net (Chuck)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2022 11:38:21 -0500
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 by: Chuck - Mon, 28 Mar 2022 16:38 UTC

On 27 Mar 2022 20:22:12 -0000, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Anders Nielsen <forstuvning@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi=20
>>I=E2=80=99m from the future! Thank you so much for all the advice. My TC-2=
>>52w can now celebrate 50 years anniversary in style :)
>>The pinch roller arm was greased 100% stuck, needed lube everywhere else an=
>>d needed some adjustment but now it=E2=80=99s almost there.. still running =
>>slower when it=E2=80=99s warm but that might be the take up idler that=E2=
>>=80=99s too tight on the motor shaft.. if not the motors=E2=80=99 about to =
>>die,
>
>Replace the pinch roller and if there is an internal idler, replace that too.
>Those are wear items that just need to be done every five or ten years.
>--scott
Scott,
Where are these parts available? Thanks. Chuck

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
Date: 28 Mar 2022 18:45:56 -0000
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 by: Scott Dorsey - Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:45 UTC

Chuck <chuck23@dejanews.net> wrote:
>On 27 Mar 2022 20:22:12 -0000, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>>Anders Nielsen <forstuvning@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi=20
>>>I=E2=80=99m from the future! Thank you so much for all the advice. My TC-2=
>>>52w can now celebrate 50 years anniversary in style :)
>>>The pinch roller arm was greased 100% stuck, needed lube everywhere else an=
>>>d needed some adjustment but now it=E2=80=99s almost there.. still running =
>>>slower when it=E2=80=99s warm but that might be the take up idler that=E2=
>>>=80=99s too tight on the motor shaft.. if not the motors=E2=80=99 about to =
>>>die,
>>
>>Replace the pinch roller and if there is an internal idler, replace that too.
>>Those are wear items that just need to be done every five or ten years.
>
>Scott,
>Where are these parts available? Thanks. Chuck

Terry's Rubber Rollers should be willing to rebuild the existing ones if
you don't have a source for spares. Russell Industries may have spares
for belts and internal idlers on the shelf.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
From: hechtn...@gmail.com (Jeff Hecht)
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 by: Jeff Hecht - Sun, 5 Jun 2022 21:26 UTC

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 2:45:59 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Terry's Rubber Rollers should be willing to rebuild the existing ones if
> you don't have a source for spares. Russell Industries may have spares
> for belts and internal idlers on the shelf.

I have a circa 1968 Sony 250A that I have been using to convert my original tapes to digital format. After long disuse, it started very slowly, but I was able to get it running again long enough to record digitize 10-20 tapes before it slowed down again with what seems to be the same problem here. The 250A seems quite similar to the 252, as described by paulc. I have a couple of questions.
I found a site offering replacement belts for Sony recorders https://www.vintage-electronics.net/sonyreeltoreelspeedproblems.aspx Has anybody used them and are they any good?
I have tried http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/ but the site appears to be down.
I also want to add a bit on using other recorders to play old tapes. I picked up a TEAC 1230 10 or 20 years ago which works reasonably well but does not pick up the right channel well -- or sometimes at all -- on some tapes I recorded on the Sony, which the Sony can pick up. Could that be a problem with head alignment?
Thanks, Jeff

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
Date: 6 Jun 2022 14:42:09 -0000
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 by: Scott Dorsey - Mon, 6 Jun 2022 14:42 UTC

Jeff Hecht <hechtnews@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have a circa 1968 Sony 250A that I have been using to convert my original=
> tapes to digital format. After long disuse, it started very slowly, but I =
>was able to get it running again long enough to record digitize 10-20 tapes=
> before it slowed down again with what seems to be the same problem here. T=
>he 250A seems quite similar to the 252, as described by paulc. I have a cou=
>ple of questions.

Okay, so you have a machine that has maybe fifty years of deferred maintenance.
When was the last time it got a clean and lube? Forty years ago maybe?

You need to go through the complete lubrication procedure in the manual,
and it's going to be harder than it would normally be because there is
crusty varnished-up stuff all over everything. Everything comes apart,
gets oiled or greased, goes back together. All rubber parts get replaced,
and all of the connectors needs to be cleaned with DeOxit or Cramolin.
Then you do the alignment and see what else is wrong. Which will almost
certainly involve capacitor replacement.

>I found a site offering replacement belts for Sony recorders https://www.vi=
>ntage-electronics.net/sonyreeltoreelspeedproblems.aspx Has anybody used th=
>em and are they any good?=20

I haven't. I have always used Russell Industries (Projector-Recorder Belt)
which are good people and have been in business for a long long time.

>I have tried http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/ but the site appears to b=
=>e down.=20

He's old. Call him on the phone. There are a bunch of other places that
will do rubber rebuilding and there are several listed on the Ampex Mailing
List guide to parts suppliers which can be found online somewhere.

>I also want to add a bit on using other recorders to play old tapes. I pick=
>ed up a TEAC 1230 10 or 20 years ago which works reasonably well but does n=
>ot pick up the right channel well -- or sometimes at all -- on some tapes I=
> recorded on the Sony, which the Sony can pick up. Could that be a problem =
>with head alignment?=20

Sure, it could be a head alignment issue. But it might also be that you are
trying to play back half-track tapes on a quarter-track machine. Almost
certainly it has bad electrolytics throughout the electronics and all of the
contacts are dirty. When you put the alignment tape on the thing it will
likely become clear what is going on. There is fifty years worth of
maintenance on this machine that hasn't been done and now you need to do it
all at once.

Budget maybe ten hours for a tech who knows what he is doing to tear one of
these things down and get it meet original specs. But please be aware that
original specs aren't really all that good... it really is not worth the time
to work on single-motor consumer machines.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
From: hechtn...@gmail.com (Jeff Hecht)
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 by: Jeff Hecht - Wed, 8 Jun 2022 00:10 UTC

Thanks for the detailed comments.
> Okay, so you have a machine that has maybe fifty years of deferred maintenance.
> When was the last time it got a clean and lube? Forty years ago maybe?
Actually, probably about 10 years on the Sony, but I get your point. When I got started
on this project I was more worried about the tapes than the reel-to-reall,
but turns out the old machines are more in need of attention. What "manual" do
you mean? I have the original owner's manual which includes routine lubrication
and cleaning instructions, but not much detail about other things. Are there detailed
repair manuals and where would I find them?
>
> You need to go through the complete lubrication procedure in the manual,
> and it's going to be harder than it would normally be because there is
> crusty varnished-up stuff all over everything. Everything comes apart,
> gets oiled or greased, goes back together. All rubber parts get replaced,
> and all of the connectors needs to be cleaned with DeOxit or Cramolin.
> Then you do the alignment and see what else is wrong. Which will almost
> certainly involve capacitor replacement.
>
I have not tried aligning the tape heads, but about 25 years ago I had a local
repair place, now long gone, do an overhaul. What kind of equipment does it
require and where can I find alignment tapes?

> >I also want to add a bit on using other recorders to play old tapes. I pick=
> >ed up a TEAC 1230 10 or 20 years ago which works reasonably well but does n=
> >ot pick up the right channel well -- or sometimes at all -- on some tapes I=
> > recorded on the Sony, which the Sony can pick up. Could that be a problem =
> >with head alignment?=20
>
> Sure, it could be a head alignment issue. But it might also be that you are
> trying to play back half-track tapes on a quarter-track machine. Almost
> certainly it has bad electrolytics throughout the electronics and all of the
> contacts are dirty. When you put the alignment tape on the thing it will
> likely become clear what is going on. There is fifty years worth of
> maintenance on this machine that hasn't been done and now you need to do it
> all at once.
I don't think the TEAC had much care before I found it, but it did work. I cleaned
and oiled it recently, but that's all. I doubt I have any half-track tapes kicking
around; but some tapes play quite differently on the two machines,
with the TEAC being weaker on the right channel. Others seem to play
the same on both. If I can get both machines up and running, I may try
to figure out what's going on. I recorded some on new tapes, some on used
tapes, and bought some used tapes and saved the music on them.
>
> Budget maybe ten hours for a tech who knows what he is doing to tear one of
> these things down and get it meet original specs. But please be aware that
> original specs aren't really all that good... it really is not worth the time
> to work on single-motor consumer machines.
> --scott
> --
Good advice. Fortunately none of the music is irreplaceable original recordings.
This is largely fiddling around with interesting old stuff.
-- Jeff

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
From: telem...@verizon.net (ray brodeur)
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 by: ray brodeur - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 17:46 UTC

Ok. Y friends,where the heck do I get rubber wheels and belts and whatever turns theserereels around anyway??
On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 8:10:50 PM UTC-4, Jeff Hecht wrote:
> Thanks for the detailed comments.
> > Okay, so you have a machine that has maybe fifty years of deferred maintenance.
> > When was the last time it got a clean and lube? Forty years ago maybe?
> Actually, probably about 10 years on the Sony, but I get your point. When I got started
> on this project I was more worried about the tapes than the reel-to-reall,
> but turns out the old machines are more in need of attention. What "manual" do
> you mean? I have the original owner's manual which includes routine lubrication
> and cleaning instructions, but not much detail about other things. Are there detailed
> repair manuals and where would I find them?
> >
> > You need to go through the complete lubrication procedure in the manual,
> > and it's going to be harder than it would normally be because there is
> > crusty varnished-up stuff all over everything. Everything comes apart,
> > gets oiled or greased, goes back together. All rubber parts get replaced,
> > and all of the connectors needs to be cleaned with DeOxit or Cramolin.
> > Then you do the alignment and see what else is wrong. Which will almost
> > certainly involve capacitor replacement.
> >
> I have not tried aligning the tape heads, but about 25 years ago I had a local
> repair place, now long gone, do an overhaul. What kind of equipment does it
> require and where can I find alignment tapes?
> > >I also want to add a bit on using other recorders to play old tapes. I pick=
> > >ed up a TEAC 1230 10 or 20 years ago which works reasonably well but does n=
> > >ot pick up the right channel well -- or sometimes at all -- on some tapes I=
> > > recorded on the Sony, which the Sony can pick up. Could that be a problem =
> > >with head alignment?=20
> >
> > Sure, it could be a head alignment issue. But it might also be that you are
> > trying to play back half-track tapes on a quarter-track machine. Almost
> > certainly it has bad electrolytics throughout the electronics and all of the
> > contacts are dirty. When you put the alignment tape on the thing it will
> > likely become clear what is going on. There is fifty years worth of
> > maintenance on this machine that hasn't been done and now you need to do it
> > all at once.
> I don't think the TEAC had much care before I found it, but it did work. I cleaned
> and oiled it recently, but that's all. I doubt I have any half-track tapes kicking
> around; but some tapes play quite differently on the two machines,
> with the TEAC being weaker on the right channel. Others seem to play
> the same on both. If I can get both machines up and running, I may try
> to figure out what's going on. I recorded some on new tapes, some on used
> tapes, and bought some used tapes and saved the music on them.
> >
> > Budget maybe ten hours for a tech who knows what he is doing to tear one of
> > these things down and get it meet original specs. But please be aware that
> > original specs aren't really all that good... it really is not worth the time
> > to work on single-motor consumer machines.
> > --scott
> > --
> Good advice. Fortunately none of the music is irreplaceable original recordings.
> This is largely fiddling around with interesting old stuff.
> -- Jeff

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
From: telem...@verizon.net (ray brodeur)
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 by: ray brodeur - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 18:00 UTC

Isn’t there anyone who makes reel to reel affordable tape machines anymore??
On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 1:46:34 PM UTC-4, ray brodeur wrote:
> Ok. Y friends,where the heck do I get rubber wheels and belts and whatever turns theserereels around anyway??
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 8:10:50 PM UTC-4, Jeff Hecht wrote:
> > Thanks for the detailed comments.
> > > Okay, so you have a machine that has maybe fifty years of deferred maintenance.
> > > When was the last time it got a clean and lube? Forty years ago maybe?
> > Actually, probably about 10 years on the Sony, but I get your point. When I got started
> > on this project I was more worried about the tapes than the reel-to-reall,
> > but turns out the old machines are more in need of attention. What "manual" do
> > you mean? I have the original owner's manual which includes routine lubrication
> > and cleaning instructions, but not much detail about other things. Are there detailed
> > repair manuals and where would I find them?
> > >
> > > You need to go through the complete lubrication procedure in the manual,
> > > and it's going to be harder than it would normally be because there is
> > > crusty varnished-up stuff all over everything. Everything comes apart,
> > > gets oiled or greased, goes back together. All rubber parts get replaced,
> > > and all of the connectors needs to be cleaned with DeOxit or Cramolin..
> > > Then you do the alignment and see what else is wrong. Which will almost
> > > certainly involve capacitor replacement.
> > >
> > I have not tried aligning the tape heads, but about 25 years ago I had a local
> > repair place, now long gone, do an overhaul. What kind of equipment does it
> > require and where can I find alignment tapes?
> > > >I also want to add a bit on using other recorders to play old tapes. I pick=
> > > >ed up a TEAC 1230 10 or 20 years ago which works reasonably well but does n=
> > > >ot pick up the right channel well -- or sometimes at all -- on some tapes I=
> > > > recorded on the Sony, which the Sony can pick up. Could that be a problem =
> > > >with head alignment?=20
> > >
> > > Sure, it could be a head alignment issue. But it might also be that you are
> > > trying to play back half-track tapes on a quarter-track machine. Almost
> > > certainly it has bad electrolytics throughout the electronics and all of the
> > > contacts are dirty. When you put the alignment tape on the thing it will
> > > likely become clear what is going on. There is fifty years worth of
> > > maintenance on this machine that hasn't been done and now you need to do it
> > > all at once.
> > I don't think the TEAC had much care before I found it, but it did work.. I cleaned
> > and oiled it recently, but that's all. I doubt I have any half-track tapes kicking
> > around; but some tapes play quite differently on the two machines,
> > with the TEAC being weaker on the right channel. Others seem to play
> > the same on both. If I can get both machines up and running, I may try
> > to figure out what's going on. I recorded some on new tapes, some on used
> > tapes, and bought some used tapes and saved the music on them.
> > >
> > > Budget maybe ten hours for a tech who knows what he is doing to tear one of
> > > these things down and get it meet original specs. But please be aware that
> > > original specs aren't really all that good... it really is not worth the time
> > > to work on single-motor consumer machines.
> > > --scott
> > > --
> > Good advice. Fortunately none of the music is irreplaceable original recordings.
> > This is largely fiddling around with interesting old stuff.
> > -- Jeff

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?
Date: 17 Sep 2022 20:17:29 -0000
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 by: Scott Dorsey - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 20:17 UTC

In article <304f7df8-7731-412b-9ffa-2a7a43093330n@googlegroups.com>,
ray brodeur <teleman1@verizon.net> wrote:
>Ok. Y friends,where the heck do I get rubber wheels and belts and whatever turns theserereels around anyway??

Russell Industries.

You get things like pinch rollers rebuilt by places like Terry's Rubber
Rollers.

The Ampex Mailing List website has a list of parts suppliers which include
quite a few that will have parts for consumer recorders too.

I don't personally think it's worth the time and money to refurbish consumer
machines, but it's your time and money and not mine.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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 by: geoff - Sun, 18 Sep 2022 00:08 UTC

On 18/09/2022 6:00 am, ray brodeur wrote:
> Isn’t there anyone who makes reel to reel affordable tape machines anymore??

Why would they ?

geoff


tech / rec.audio.pro / Re: Sony TC-252 reel to reel slowing down?

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