When I say that paleo anthropology is a farce, that
it's not a real science or anything approaching a
real science, that it's long since been replaced by
politics, a social program... well... I'm not kidding.

Here:

https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/lCJUZc7EFqs/m/90DfETjfWd4J

That was 16 years ago. Now go read Wiki, the
easily manipulated "Source" for idiots!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee–human_last_common_ancestor

They're pretending as far back as 13 million years or
more! And to turn this into an even bigger farce:

They claim that this is supported by the fossil
evidence!

It's a joke played on people who want knowledge.
They're actually PUNISHING you for seeking to not
be ignorant. It's only the people after information,
who are trying to not be ignorant who can fall victim
to this bullshit.

It's in every way, shape & form EVIL.

How else can you describe it?

Does anyone actually believe that the self imposed
elite fully intended to propagate legitimate science
only they sneezed and ACCIDENTALLY spewed all
the BULLSHIT that people are being told?

We have at this point two generation traumatized by
the thought of the planet burning up during an ice
age, all caused by fossil fuels which will run out long
before they do, and we have to enact highly regressive
"Carbon" taxes on the people with the least money,
the least power and the least responsibility for
ANYTHING, all while exempting private jet planes?

This is evil. It's genuine evil. The self imposed elite
want people stupid.

...the good doctor is right in that the ancestor to
Chimps didn't look like a Chimp. I disagree on when
that ancestor lived -- I place it more recent than he
does -- but the evidence, ALL THE EVIDENCE, points
to it being boatloads more recent than anything this
Wiki idiocy is claiming.

There is literally NOTHING supporting such old dating
and PLENTY proving it wrong.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/715578920636907520

Op donderdag 27 april 2023 om 09:51:18 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:

> When I say that paleo anthropology is a farce, that
> it's not a real science or anything approaching a
> real science, that it's long since been replaced by
> politics, a social program... well... I'm not kidding. Here:
> https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/lCJUZc7EFqs/m/90DfETjfWd4J
> That was 16 years ago. Now go read Wiki, the
> easily manipulated "Source" for idiots!
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee–human_last_common_ancestor
> They're pretending as far back as 13 million years or
> more! And to turn this into an even bigger farce:
> They claim that this is supported by the fossil evidence!
> It's a joke played on people who want knowledge.
> They're actually PUNISHING you for seeking to not
> be ignorant. It's only the people after information,
> who are trying to not be ignorant who can fall victim
> to this bullshit.
> It's in every way, shape & form EVIL.
> How else can you describe it?
> Does anyone actually believe that the self imposed
> elite fully intended to propagate legitimate science
> only they sneezed and ACCIDENTALLY spewed all
> the BULLSHIT that people are being told?
> We have at this point two generation traumatized by
> the thought of the planet burning up during an ice
> age, all caused by fossil fuels which will run out long
> before they do, and we have to enact highly regressive
> "Carbon" taxes on the people with the least money,
> the least power and the least responsibility for
> ANYTHING, all while exempting private jet planes?
> This is evil. It's genuine evil. The self imposed elite
> want people stupid.
> ...the good doctor is right in that the ancestor to
> Chimps didn't look like a Chimp. I disagree on when
> that ancestor lived -- I place it more recent than he
> does -- but the evidence, ALL THE EVIDENCE, points
> to it being boatloads more recent than anything this
> Wiki idiocy is claiming.
> There is literally NOTHING supporting such old dating
> and PLENTY proving it wrong.

"more recent"?

If I am (was!) the good doctor :-)
I place (my 2022 book)
- aquarboreal Hominoidea: Mio-Pliocene, already >20 Ma?
- shallow-diving archaic Homo: early-Pleistocene, c 2 Ma?

https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/

-- Miocene Hominoidea = BP,
-- Lucy = early Gorilla,
-- out-of-Africa = nonsense,
-- savanna running = nonsense,
google "aquarboreal".

littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> If I am (was!) the good doctor :-)
> I place (my 2022 book)
> - aquarboreal Hominoidea: Mio-Pliocene, already >20 Ma?
> - shallow-diving archaic Homo: early-Pleistocene, c 2 Ma?
>
> https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
>
>
> -- Miocene Hominoidea = BP,
> -- Lucy = early Gorilla,
> -- out-of-Africa = nonsense,
> -- savanna running = nonsense,
> google "aquarboreal".

The first "Cite" I offered was a usenet (f)Lame war from 16 years
ago, where I "Cited" a then recent study placing the LCA no further
back then 6.3 million years ago, assuming another 1.2 million
years of interbreeding beyond that.

So, clean split no further back than 5.1 million years ago.

Now other studies, unfortunately all looking at the DNA, but more
comprehensive, put the number closer to 4 million years, give or
take. So, anyway, we've got your dating, we've got my dating and
then Wiki...

: While "original divergence" between populations may have occurred
: as early as 13 million years ago

This is based on nothing. The 16 year old cite was saying that it
couldn't goo back any further than 6.3 million years, Wiki is claiming
13 million! They slightly more than DOUBLED IT!

Based on nothing.

Here. More from Wiki:

: In effect, there is now no a priori reason to presume that human-chimpanzee
: split times are especially recent, and the fossil evidence is now fully
: compatible with older chimpanzee–human divergence dates [7 to 10 Ma...

There are no fossils. None. So non-existing fossils confirm an early date for
the LCA, which in turn is contradicted by their own molecular dating.

"Our own molecular dating says we're wrong, that we're WAY off, there is
absolutely no fossils to support anything we're claiming so... WE ARE
DEFINITELY RIGHT BECAUSE THE FOSSILS PROVE IT!"

It's a social program. "Science" has absolutely nothing to do any of it.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/707618448275095552

Op vrijdag 28 april 2023 om 14:27:06 UTC+2 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > If I am (was!) the good doctor :-) I place (my 2022 book)
> > - aquarboreal Hominoidea: Mio-Pliocene, already >20 Ma?
> > - shallow-diving archaic Homo: early-Pleistocene, c 2 Ma?
> > https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/the-waterside-hypothesis-wading-led-to-upright-walking-in-early-humans/
> > -- Miocene Hominoidea = BP,
> > -- Lucy = early Gorilla,
> > -- out-of-Africa = nonsense,
> > -- savanna running = nonsense,
> > google "aquarboreal".

> The first "Cite" I offered was a usenet (f)Lame war from 16 years
> ago, where I "Cited" a then recent study placing the LCA no further
> back then 6.3 million years ago, assuming another 1.2 million
> years of interbreeding beyond that.
> So, clean split no further back than 5.1 million years ago.

You know my view:
the HPG-LCA was aquarboreal in swamp forests of the (incipient) Red Sea,
Gorilla 8 or 7 Ma followed the (incipient) northern Rift -> Afar,
and if the Red Sea opened into the Gulf 5.33 Ma (Francesca),
- Homo went left,
- Pan went right:
5 Ma is perfect. :-)

And yes, we agree:
Wiki = nonsense (here at least):

> Now other studies, unfortunately all looking at the DNA, but more
> comprehensive, put the number closer to 4 million years, give or
> take. So, anyway, we've got your dating, we've got my dating and
> then Wiki...
> : While "original divergence" between populations may have occurred
> : as early as 13 million years ago
> This is based on nothing. The 16 year old cite was saying that it
> couldn't goo back any further than 6.3 million years, Wiki is claiming
> 13 million! They slightly more than DOUBLED IT!
> Based on nothing.
> Here. More from Wiki:
> : In effect, there is now no a priori reason to presume that human-chimpanzee
> : split times are especially recent, and the fossil evidence is now fully
> : compatible with older chimpanzee–human divergence dates [7 to 10 Ma...
> There are no fossils. None. So non-existing fossils confirm an early date for
> the LCA, which in turn is contradicted by their own molecular dating.
> "Our own molecular dating says we're wrong, that we're WAY off, there is
> absolutely no fossils to support anything we're claiming so... WE ARE
> DEFINITELY RIGHT BECAUSE THE FOSSILS PROVE IT!"
> It's a social program. "Science" has absolutely nothing to do any of it.