On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 6:44:37 AM UTC-7, Pandora wrote:
> Burials and engravings in a small-brained hominin, Homo naledi, from
> the late Pleistocene: contexts and evolutionary implications
>
> Abstract
>
> Data from recent explorations in the Dinaledi subsystem illustrates
> one of the earliest examples of a mortuary practice in hominins and
> offers the earliest evidence of multiple interments and funerary
> actions, as well as evidence of the early creation of meaning making
> by a hominin.

I think Lee Berger is trying to force a square peg into a round hole on this one. He refers to this as, "data." Clearly it is an interpretation of data. Aspects of this data are consistent with mortuary practices but other aspects are not.

A better interpretation, in my opinion, starts with realization that hominid communities often found themselves under siege during the depth of the dry season. Accordingly, the fossils found would have entered the caves in a state of extreme desperation as the rest of their community was massacred then they either couldn't get out or died of thirst waiting for the predators to leave the area.
Claudius Denk / Humane Revolution
How Hominids Actually Evolved:
https://youtu.be/Z7TwiVul7F0

James McGinn wrote:

> A better interpretation, in my opinion, starts with realization that hominid communities often found themselves under siege during the depth of the dry season. Accordingly, the fossils found would have entered the caves in a state of extreme desperation as the rest of their community was massacred then they either couldn't get out or died of thirst waiting for the predators to leave the area.

There's lots of interpretations.

One is that humans might've utilized the caves for tens of
thousands of years.

They are known to have been explored since at least the 1960s.

If fury cave monkeys were in there, and the stuff about the
fires is true, it sounds more like someone was burning them
out... possibly driving them in deeper in the process.

Most mammals find it difficult to breath smoke.

The fires, as described, were everywhere. In the passages, not
just the caverns.

This idea that no modern human noticed the caves much less
entered them for thousands of years sounds ridiculous.

And Lee Berger is NOT a tiny man. If he could get in there then
why not San or anyone else?

The problem isn't coming up with alternative explanations, the
problem is sifting through the bull.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/archive

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:40:49 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> James McGinn wrote:
>
> > A better interpretation, in my opinion, starts with realization that hominid communities often found themselves under siege during the depth of the dry season. Accordingly, the fossils found would have entered the caves in a state of extreme desperation as the rest of their community was massacred then they either couldn't get out or died of thirst waiting for the predators to leave the area.

> One is that humans might've utilized the caves for tens of
> thousands of years.

Seems reasonable. Especially considering that they often found themselves under siege, according to my theory.

I think this also goes a long way toward explaining why the fossil assemblages show such a stark absence of other species.
In Berger's most recent video he puts a lot of emphasis on why this is so unusual.

Lee Berger's interpretations are limited by the standard assumptions of PA which would involve these early hominids being much more transitory than my model suggests, which is consistent with them being highly communal and situated at locations that have water and available food resources year round..

> This idea that no modern human noticed the caves much less
> entered them for thousands of years sounds ridiculous.

I think they would have been abandoned as they became more sophisticated.

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 9:06:00 PM UTC-7, James McGinn wrote:
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:40:49 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> > James McGinn wrote:
> >
> > > A better interpretation, in my opinion, starts with realization that hominid communities often found themselves under siege during the depth of the dry season. Accordingly, the fossils found would have entered the caves in a state of extreme desperation as the rest of their community was massacred then they either couldn't get out or died of thirst waiting for the predators to leave the area.
> > One is that humans might've utilized the caves for tens of
> > thousands of years.
> Seems reasonable. Especially considering that they often found themselves under siege, according to my theory.
>
> I think this also goes a long way toward explaining why the fossil assemblages show such a stark absence of other species.
> In Berger's most recent video he puts a lot of emphasis on why this is so unusual.
>
> Lee Berger's interpretations are limited by the standard assumptions of PA which would involve these early hominids being much more transitory than my model suggests, which is consistent with them being highly communal and situated at locations that have water and available food resources year round.
> > This idea that no modern human noticed the caves much less
> > entered them for thousands of years sounds ridiculous.
> I think they would have been abandoned as they became more sophisticated.

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:40:49 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> James McGinn wrote:
>
> > A better interpretation, in my opinion, starts with realization that hominid communities often found themselves under siege during the depth of the dry season. Accordingly, the fossils found would have entered the caves in a state of extreme desperation as the rest of their community was massacred then they either couldn't get out or died of thirst waiting for the predators to leave the area.
> There's lots of interpretations.
>
> One is that humans might've utilized the caves for tens of
> thousands of years.
>
> They are known to have been explored since at least the 1960s.
>
> If fury cave monkeys were in there, and the stuff about the
> fires is true, it sounds more like someone was burning them
> out... possibly driving them in deeper in the process.
>
> Most mammals find it difficult to breath smoke.
>
> The fires, as described, were everywhere. In the passages, not
> just the caverns.
>
> This idea that no modern human noticed the caves much less
> entered them for thousands of years sounds ridiculous.
>
> And Lee Berger is NOT a tiny man. If he could get in there then
> why not San or anyone else?
>
> The problem isn't coming up with alternative explanations, the
> problem is sifting through the bull.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/archive

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 6:23:51 PM UTC-7, James McGinn wrote:
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:40:49 PM UTC-7, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> > James McGinn wrote:
> >
> > > A better interpretation, in my opinion, starts with realization that hominid communities often found themselves under siege during the depth of the dry season. Accordingly, the fossils found would have entered the caves in a state of extreme desperation as the rest of their community was massacred then they either couldn't get out or died of thirst waiting for the predators to leave the area.
> > There's lots of interpretations.
> >
> > One is that humans might've utilized the caves for tens of
> > thousands of years.
> >
> > They are known to have been explored since at least the 1960s.
> >
> > If fury cave monkeys were in there, and the stuff about the
> > fires is true, it sounds more like someone was burning them
> > out... possibly driving them in deeper in the process.
> >
> > Most mammals find it difficult to breath smoke.
> >
> > The fires, as described, were everywhere. In the passages, not
> > just the caverns.
> >
> > This idea that no modern human noticed the caves much less
> > entered them for thousands of years sounds ridiculous.
> >
> > And Lee Berger is NOT a tiny man. If he could get in there then
> > why not San or anyone else?
> >
> > The problem isn't coming up with alternative explanations, the
> > problem is sifting through the bull.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- --
> >
> > https://jtem.tumblr.com/archive

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:35:44 AM UTC-7, James McGinn wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 6:44:37 AM UTC-7, Pandora wrote:
> > Burials and engravings in a small-brained hominin, Homo naledi, from
> > the late Pleistocene: contexts and evolutionary implications
> >
> > Abstract
> >
> > Data from recent explorations in the Dinaledi subsystem illustrates
> > one of the earliest examples of a mortuary practice in hominins and
> > offers the earliest evidence of multiple interments and funerary
> > actions, as well as evidence of the early creation of meaning making
> > by a hominin.
>
> I think Lee Berger is trying to force a square peg into a round hole on this one. He refers to this as, "data." Clearly it is an interpretation of data. Aspects of this data are consistent with mortuary practices but other aspects are not.
>
> A better interpretation, in my opinion, starts with realization that hominid communities often found themselves under siege during the depth of the dry season. Accordingly, the fossils found would have entered the caves in a state of extreme desperation as the rest of their community was massacred then they either couldn't get out or died of thirst waiting for the predators to leave the area.
> Claudius Denk / Humane Revolution
> How Hominids Actually Evolved:
> https://youtu.be/Z7TwiVul7F0