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tech / sci.lang / Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

SubjectAuthor
* National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Ross Clark
+* Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Aidan Kehoe
|`* Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Tilde
| `* Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Aidan Kehoe
|  `- Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Tilde
`* Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Christian Weisgerber
 +- Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Antonio Marques
 `- Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)Athel Cornish-Bowden

1
National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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From: benli...@ihug.co.nz (Ross Clark)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 12:26:44 +1300
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 by: Ross Clark - Mon, 22 Jan 2024 23:26 UTC

Established by the Writing Instruments Manufacturers Association in
1977, to encourage handwriting and promote sales of pens, ink, etc.
Was it already obvious then that handwriting was endangered?

The date honours John Hancock, first signer of the Declaration of
Independence. See him here (scroll down for his splendid signature):

https://www.theconstitutional.com/blog/2020/03/03/john-hancock-one-americas-founding-fathers

My handwriting ("penmanship") was never any good. The precise
three-fingertip grip that the books and my teachers prescribed always
slid down into a kind of 2.5-finger arrangement which they said was the
source of my problems.

When I got to university and had to take a lot of notes, cursive
handwriting just couldn't keep up, so I switched to rapid printing
(detached letters), which is what I still do when I have to write
anything by hand. Cursive survives only in my signature, which is now
sort of recognizable, but completely illegible.

Meanwhile, my parents had sent me off to do a 2- or 3-week touch typing
course. This was during summer holidays, and I wasn't enthusiastic, but
here I actually did learn to do something fairly well with my fingers,
and I was grateful for this good idea in later years.

Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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From: keh...@parhasard.net (Aidan Kehoe)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 10:28:20 +0000
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 by: Aidan Kehoe - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 10:28 UTC

Ar an tríú lá is fiche de mí Eanair, scríobh Ross Clark:

> [...] Meanwhile, my parents had sent me off to do a 2- or 3-week touch
> typing course. This was during summer holidays, and I wasn't enthusiastic,
> but here I actually did learn to do something fairly well with my fingers,
> and I was grateful for this good idea in later years.

I think every secondary school should have a typing course, it is a fundamental
skill of almost every professional job these days. (Earlier makes less sense
since the fingers are not yet adult size.)

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 13:11:37 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 13:11 UTC

On 2024-01-22, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> When I got to university and had to take a lot of notes, cursive
> handwriting just couldn't keep up, so I switched to rapid printing
> (detached letters), which is what I still do when I have to write
> anything by hand. Cursive survives only in my signature, which is now
> sort of recognizable, but completely illegible.

High school for me, but otherwise the same.

The cursive handwriting taught in elementary school is apparently
called "Ausgangsschrift" (starting script) in pedagogical German,
and the idea seems to be that this will eventually develop into an
individually convenient form. That never happened for me. I was
too diligent and painstakingly kept painting the cumbersome forms
with all their connections and little curlicues. Until I finally
had enough and to the horror of my parents (and complete disinterest
of my teachers) made a hard switch to printing and never looked
back. Later at university people complemented me for my legible
handwriting.

I didn't really have a signature either and, as I had to sign papers
as an adult, sort of purposefully developed one. When my most
recent tenant (a schoolteacher, in fact) signed her rental agreement
and associated paperwork, I noticed that she also has the problem
that she doesn't really have a signature and writes her name too
neatly.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Tilde)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
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 by: Tilde - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 04:43 UTC

Aidan Kehoe wrote:
>
> Ar an tríú lá is fiche de mí Eanair, scríobh Ross Clark:
> > [...] Meanwhile, my parents had sent me off to do a 2- or 3-week touch
> > typing course. This was during summer holidays, and I wasn't enthusiastic,
> > but here I actually did learn to do something fairly well with my fingers,
> > and I was grateful for this good idea in later years.
>
> I think every secondary school should have a typing course, it is a fundamental
> skill of almost every professional job these days. (Earlier makes less sense
> since the fingers are not yet adult size.)

In the U.S. at least, that might be semi moot as computers
and such are fairly common in households at early ages (not
sure about elsewhere). Might depend on what level of
proficiency one is thinking of ;)

Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
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 by: Aidan Kehoe - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:06 UTC

Ar an tríú lá is fiche de mí Eanair, scríobh Tilde:

> Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> >
> > Ar an tríú lá is fiche de mí Eanair, scríobh Ross Clark:
> > > [...] Meanwhile, my parents had sent me off to do a 2- or 3-week touch
> > > typing course. This was during summer holidays, and I wasn't enthusiastic,
> > > but here I actually did learn to do something fairly well with my fingers,
> > > and I was grateful for this good idea in later years.
> >
> > I think every secondary school should have a typing course, it is a
> > fundamental skill of almost every professional job these days. (Earlier
> > makes less sense since the fingers are not yet adult size.)
>
> In the U.S. at least, that might be semi moot as computers
> and such are fairly common in households at early ages (not
> sure about elsewhere). Might depend on what level of
> proficiency one is thinking of ;)

My experience (in Western Europe) was the generation whose late teens were just
before the advent of the smartphone had excellent typing skills, and those who
spent their teen years on smartphones didn’t. Is that different in the US? Are
the majority of teenagers routinely using desktop computers or laptops
recreationally there, or is it smartphones?

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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From: no_em...@invalid.invalid (Antonio Marques)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 12:42:19 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Antonio Marques - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 12:42 UTC

Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
> On 2024-01-22, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> When I got to university and had to take a lot of notes, cursive
>> handwriting just couldn't keep up, so I switched to rapid printing
>> (detached letters), which is what I still do when I have to write
>> anything by hand. Cursive survives only in my signature, which is now
>> sort of recognizable, but completely illegible.
>
> High school for me, but otherwise the same.
>
> The cursive handwriting taught in elementary school is apparently
> called "Ausgangsschrift" (starting script) in pedagogical German,
> and the idea seems to be that this will eventually develop into an
> individually convenient form. That never happened for me. I was
> too diligent and painstakingly kept painting the cumbersome forms
> with all their connections and little curlicues.

Back in my day, we had to. Any attempt at developing your own fluent style
was chastised. A matter of some teachers not knowing what they were there
for.

Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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From: inval...@invalid.invalid (Tilde)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
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 by: Tilde - Thu, 25 Jan 2024 05:32 UTC

Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> Ar an tríú lá is fiche de mí Eanair, scríobh Tilde:
> > Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> > > Ar an tríú lá is fiche de mí Eanair, scríobh Ross Clark:
> > > > [...] Meanwhile, my parents had sent me off to do a 2- or 3-week touch
> > > > typing course. This was during summer holidays, and I wasn't enthusiastic,
> > > > but here I actually did learn to do something fairly well with my fingers,
> > > > and I was grateful for this good idea in later years.
> > >
> > > I think every secondary school should have a typing course, it is a
> > > fundamental skill of almost every professional job these days. (Earlier
> > > makes less sense since the fingers are not yet adult size.)
> >
> > In the U.S. at least, that might be semi moot as computers
> > and such are fairly common in households at early ages (not
> > sure about elsewhere). Might depend on what level of
> > proficiency one is thinking of ;)
>
> My experience (in Western Europe) was the generation whose late teens were just
> before the advent of the smartphone had excellent typing skills, and those who
> spent their teen years on smartphones didn’t. Is that different in the US? Are
> the majority of teenagers routinely using desktop computers or laptops
> recreationally there, or is it smartphones?

Couldn't say, that sounds like a good research sort
of question. Smartphones, i.e, texting activities
most likely, are not a good comparision with keyboard
expertise. I was thinking of computers at school as
well as at home and those are certainly keyboard
driven. At this point one would need data on percentage
of homes with computers and schools and at what grade
they are introduced and used. And it eventually such
expertise is likely needed in employment...

Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)

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From: me...@yahoo.com (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: National Handwriting Day (John Hancock born, 23-1-1737)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:36:52 +0100
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Fri, 26 Jan 2024 08:36 UTC

On 2024-01-23 13:11:37 +0000, Christian Weisgerber said:

> On 2024-01-22, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> When I got to university and had to take a lot of notes, cursive
>> handwriting just couldn't keep up, so I switched to rapid printing
>> (detached letters), which is what I still do when I have to write
>> anything by hand. Cursive survives only in my signature, which is now
>> sort of recognizable, but completely illegible.
>
> High school for me, but otherwise the same.
>
> The cursive handwriting taught in elementary school is apparently
> called "Ausgangsschrift" (starting script) in pedagogical German,
> and the idea seems to be that this will eventually develop into an
> individually convenient form. That never happened for me. I was
> too diligent and painstakingly kept painting the cumbersome forms
> with all their connections and little curlicues. Until I finally
> had enough and to the horror of my parents (and complete disinterest
> of my teachers) made a hard switch to printing and never looked
> back. Later at university people complemented me for my legible
> handwriting.
>
> I didn't really have a signature either and, as I had to sign papers
> as an adult, sort of purposefully developed one. When my most
> recent tenant (a schoolteacher, in fact) signed her rental agreement
> and associated paperwork, I noticed that she also has the problem
> that she doesn't really have a signature and writes her name too
> neatly.

My handwriting has deteriorated enormously over the last 20 or 30 years
(at school I once won a handwriting prize, but that was 65 years ago).
My signature has changed rather little, however.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

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