Joerg Lorenz wrote on 29.07.2021 07:26
> Even in the privacy-desert North America localisation is legally only
> possible with a court order.

*They're all the same in terms of handing the feds all your privacy.*
Apple is just better at MARKETING the _illusion_ of privacy - that's all.

If Joerg were a normal person I'd tell him that Apple does the same things
that Google does in terms of throwing its users under the bus on privacy.
*Apple gave the FBI access to the iCloud account of a protester*
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-gave-the-fbi-access-to-the-icloud-account-of-a-protester-accused-of-setting-police-cars-on-fire>

So did Facebook.
*Facebook Gives FBI Private Messages Of Users Discussing Capitol Hill Riot*
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/01/21/facebook-gives-fbi-private-messages-of-users-discussing-capitol-hill-riot/>

As did Parlor.
*Parler helped the FBI identify riot suspect*
<https://www.businessinsider.com.au/parler-shared-information-fbi-capitol-riot-suspect-2021-1>

*They're all the same in terms of handing the feds all your privacy.*
--
Alan Baker, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger, Lewis,
nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name, et al.
are truly despicable people devoid of intelligence or any moral character.

On 29/07/2021 18.45, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 29.07.21 um 17:05 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If you
>> don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS has
>> access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
>> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
>
> Even more bullshit! You obviously have no clue of Android, what it can
> and what it can't.

LOL :-D

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 29/07/2021 19.55, AJL wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 8:05 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If
>> you don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS
>>  has access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
>> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
>
> Google/Android's not the only one. My car's are both attached to the net
> and know where I am.

Mine didn't, but I bought a dongle that does. I needed the WiFi that
comes with it.

My TomTom car navigator also knows my location, but they swear they
delete it after a week or so and only keep the aggregate or anonymous
data and that they don't share the data with anybody. Of course, I have
to trust them with it, but this time I can opt out. If I do, I
immediately lose the traffic live information, which I want.

> (That could be handy if one is ever stolen since it
> can be tracked.) My credit card knows where I am when it makes
> purchases.

True!

They also have your purchase history. The aggregate data of what is
purchased and where is a very wanted data.

For instance, someone goes to the bank and request a credit to put a
chocolates shop at Bilbo's doorstep. Well, they can look at that
aggregate data to guesstimate if it will be a success or not.

> My wife's phone knows where she is and it ain't Android.

Yes, the phone company always knows. It is a similar situation: you have
to trust them with that information, trust that they do the right thing.
If you don't, well, simply put, don't use a mobile phone at all.

> Course Verizon knows where we both are. My Amazon Fire OS tablet (and
> probably also Google since I have the Play Store on it) knows where I am
> when I plug it into a hotel. Etc etc etc.

I'm not familiar with that tablet, what hardware it has, but as soon as
you connect to internet they will know the approximate location. Any web
you load will know, too, unless you use an VPN or Tor.

> Not being the paranoid type I've long since stopped worrying about it.
> Most (all?) are bits and bytes in a server somewhere. (Just like my
> medical records BTW which are a bit more sensitive than my location.) If
> an actual human Google employee picked me out of their billion+ accounts
> to look at, perhaps I should actually feel flattered.

Heh :-)

If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee listens
to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI failed to
understand the command. They listen to it and study your voice to learn
why the AI failed and how they can make it work. Improving or studying
purposes, somewhere in the fine print.

>
> Bottom line: You can't live in our age and stop some server somewhere
> from knowing private stuff about you. So relax and enjoy life, live a
> little...or not.  :-)

Right :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

<snip>

> I'm not familiar with that tablet, what hardware it has, but as soon as
> you connect to internet they will know the approximate location. Any web
> you load will know, too, unless you use an VPN or Tor.

The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in, nor do the Wi-Fi only
iPads. Most of the Wi-Fi only Android tablets do include a GPS which can
be very useful in some apps.

For a poor-mans Lojack, you can hide a cheap 4G Android phone, with a
charger connected to 12V-Always, with data off, in a place where it can
get a signal. You install an app that receives an SMS and responds with
an SMS with the GPS location, i.e.
<https://github.com/anevero/sms_my_gps>. You sign up for service on a
carrier that doesn't charge a monthly fee, for example, Truphone (AT&T
in the U.S.) is free for incoming SMS, 9¢ for outgoing texts, and has no
monthly charge or monthly minimum
<https://myaccount.truphone.com/en-US/Product/CustomizeProduct> there is
only the initial $30 cost for the SIM card and $15 worth of credit.

There are also non-phone trackers, like a Lojack, that you can use, but
with a service like Truphone; the 4G LTE version of the TKSTAR 915 is
one such device <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002337478851.htm>,
but it costs more than a cheap unlocked 4G Android phone.

On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee
> listens to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI
> failed to understand the command. They listen to it and study your
> voice to learn why the AI failed and how they can make it work.
> Improving or studying purposes, somewhere in the fine print.

I've read that about Amazon too. In my old paranoid days I'd put a drop
of fingernail polish on the tablet lens and mike hole. But no more for
many years now. I've been assimilated. (Isn't that what also happened
to Jean-Luc Picard in an old Star Trek movie? Not sure.)

My Granddaughter's house is completely wired. Her
kids like to impress me by asking Alexa to fart. When she does they
can't stop laughing. Isn't modern technology wonderful...

On 7/29/2021 2:05 PM, sms wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> I'm not familiar with that tablet [Amazon Fire], what hardware it
>> has, but as soon as you connect to internet they will know the
>> approximate location. Any web you load will know, too, unless you
>> use an VPN or Tor.
>
> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,

Makes no difference. When I plug it in to the hotel WiFi my cover is
blown...

On 7/29/2021 2:15 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 2:05 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>>> I'm not familiar with that tablet [Amazon Fire], what hardware it
>>> has, but as soon as you connect to internet they will know the
>>> approximate location. Any web you load will know, too, unless you use
>>> an VPN or Tor.
>>
>> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,
>
> Makes no difference. When I plug it in to the hotel WiFi my cover is
> blown...

Not if you're using a VPN.

In article <sdv8c4$2c7$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> >>> I'm not familiar with that tablet [Amazon Fire], what hardware it
> >>> has, but as soon as you connect to internet they will know the
> >>> approximate location. Any web you load will know, too, unless you use
> >>> an VPN or Tor.
> >>
> >> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,
> >
> > Makes no difference. When I plug it in to the hotel WiFi my cover is
> > blown...
>
> Not if you're using a VPN.

not necessarily. that depends on a lot of things.

On 7/29/2021 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 2:15 PM, AJL wrote:
>> On 7/29/2021 2:05 PM, sms wrote:

>>> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,
>>
>> Makes no difference. When I plug it in to the hotel WiFi my cover
>> is blown...
>
> Not if you're using a VPN.

VPN will hide me?? Thank the Lord. Wait. What about all those bits and
bytes on the hotel's server that know my name, address, license plate
number, CC number, etc? And all those tourist shops in town whose
servers get my info from the CC company? But wait. I think I
fooled them by not using the hotel phone. Instead I used my cell.
They'll never find me or know who I call now. Sneaky huh...

On 29/07/2021 23.07, AJL wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee
>> listens to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI
>> failed to understand the command. They listen to it and study your
>> voice to learn why the AI failed and how they can make it work.
>> Improving or studying purposes, somewhere in the fine print.
>
> I've read that about Amazon too. In my old paranoid days I'd put a drop
> of fingernail polish on the tablet lens and mike hole.

On Android, there is an option for that. My phone does not respond to
"Hey google", I have to tap the mic icon first.

> But no more for
> many years now. I've been assimilated. (Isn't that what also happened
> to Jean-Luc Picard in an old Star Trek movie? Not sure.)

Yep :-)

>
> My Granddaughter's house is completely wired. Her
> kids like to impress me by asking Alexa to fart. When she does they
> can't stop laughing. Isn't modern technology wonderful...

They managed that? :-D

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. wrote on 30.07.2021 01:23
> On Android, there is an option for that. My phone does not respond to
> "Hey google", I have to tap the mic icon first.

To Carlos' point that the Google speech recognition software is dangerous,

1. I agree with the OP that Google went about this the wrong way
(just as with "Location" when running Wi-Fi graphical debuggers).
<https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg>

2. The speech-to-text microphone seems to be coming from this service
<com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox>
Which, unfortunately, is a privacy hole just waiting to be exploited.

3. Luckily, most of the danger (not all though) can easily be disabled.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9FmRKqnz/stt01.jpg>

4. It does a ton of tracking, some of which (most?) can be turned off.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrxXxLNJ/stt04.jpg>

5. What I do is first "uninstall" it to the original factory version
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKWZv7Nd/stt02.jpg>

6. Which I periodically do (just to wipe out any data it may have saved).
<https://i.postimg.cc/Kv20Hskj/stt05.jpg>

7. And what I do next is turn off _all_ permissions save for microphone!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhV0Hj1t/stt06.jpg>

8. And, of course, I don't set up Android using my Google Account.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ydcD2RQj/stt03.jpg>

7. In addition, I don't use "Gboard" but I do use "Google Voice Typing".
<https://i.postimg.cc/nr9c70Nd/image.jpg>

8. Which does a lot of useful things but I wish we could replace it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6tTGq4n/stt08.jpg>

If anyone knows how to disable <com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox>
and _still_ get speech-to-text (e.g., for SMS), please let us all know,
as _that_ would be extremely useful from a better privacy perspective.
--
The purposefully helpful adults on this newsgroup provided sufficient detail
to reproduce because they're good people with good hearts and intentions.