On 4/19/2022 7:04 PM, Matthew wrote:
>> The Gaza Strip's terrorist factions on Tuesday warned Israel against holding a Jewish nationalist rally around Jerusalem.
>
>> In a joint statement, the factions warned that their "finger is on the trigger" if the so-called March of the Flags goes through.
>
>> The last year's conflict between Gaza and Israel broke out after Jewish activists marched through Jerusalem's Old City in a similar rally in the climax of a tense period.
> https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byhdpthec
>
>> "Responding to a domestic threat - not enough": The defense establishment estimates that Israeli Arabs will intervene in the fighting
>
>> Senior officials warn of more violent clashes than those that occurred during the Wall Guard, and warn: "This could lead to a kind of civil war"
> https://www.israelhayom.co.il/news/defense/article/10139858
>

I am just a common person, and can not guarantee
any future act.
But I just spent 4 weeks in the Middle East
(Egypt, Jordan & Israel) and talked to tour guides
and venders, and service providers.

They were all thinking that there was no chance
of any military war between Israel and either
Egypt or Jordan. They were confident that peace
and growing prosperity through trade and investment
meant no major conflict.

(Of course, that does not deny that Iran could
throw a big wrench (or nuke) into the process. )

One Palestinian salesman I talked to in Jerusalem
was positive that all the problems had to due
with political leaders that kept the conflict
alive just to keep themselves in power.

On Thu, 12 May 2022 09:46:29 -0700, a425couple
<a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/19/2022 7:04 PM, Matthew wrote:
>>> The Gaza Strip's terrorist factions on Tuesday warned Israel against holding a Jewish nationalist rally around Jerusalem.
>>
>>> In a joint statement, the factions warned that their "finger is on the trigger" if the so-called March of the Flags goes through.
>>
>>> The last year's conflict between Gaza and Israel broke out after Jewish activists marched through Jerusalem's Old City in a similar rally in the climax of a tense period.
>> https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byhdpthec
>>
>>> "Responding to a domestic threat - not enough": The defense establishment estimates that Israeli Arabs will intervene in the fighting
>>
>>> Senior officials warn of more violent clashes than those that occurred during the Wall Guard, and warn: "This could lead to a kind of civil war"
>> https://www.israelhayom.co.il/news/defense/article/10139858
>>
>
>I am just a common person, and can not guarantee
>any future act.
>But I just spent 4 weeks in the Middle East
>(Egypt, Jordan & Israel) and talked to tour guides
>and venders, and service providers.
>
>They were all thinking that there was no chance
>of any military war between Israel and either
>Egypt or Jordan. They were confident that peace
>and growing prosperity through trade and investment
>meant no major conflict.
>
>(Of course, that does not deny that Iran could
>throw a big wrench (or nuke) into the process. )
>
>One Palestinian salesman I talked to in Jerusalem
>was positive that all the problems had to due
>with political leaders that kept the conflict
>alive just to keep themselves in power.
>

Of course Putin is doing to the Ukraine what the Zionists did to the
Levant, and continuing to do to the west bank.

I guess the Arabs are not as photogenic as the blond Caucasoid
Ukrainians?

On 5/12/2022 5:59 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 09:46:29 -0700, a425couple
> <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/19/2022 7:04 PM, Matthew wrote:
>>>> The Gaza Strip's terrorist factions on Tuesday warned Israel against holding a Jewish nationalist rally around Jerusalem.
>>>
>>>> In a joint statement, the factions warned that their "finger is on the trigger" if the so-called March of the Flags goes through.
>>>
>>>> The last year's conflict between Gaza and Israel broke out after Jewish activists marched through Jerusalem's Old City in a similar rally in the climax of a tense period.
>>> https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byhdpthec
>>>
>>>> "Responding to a domestic threat - not enough": The defense establishment estimates that Israeli Arabs will intervene in the fighting
>>>
>>>> Senior officials warn of more violent clashes than those that occurred during the Wall Guard, and warn: "This could lead to a kind of civil war"
>>> https://www.israelhayom.co.il/news/defense/article/10139858
>>>
>>
>> I am just a common person, and can not guarantee
>> any future act.
>> But I just spent 4 weeks in the Middle East
>> (Egypt, Jordan & Israel) and talked to tour guides
>> and venders, and service providers.
>>
>> They were all thinking that there was no chance
>> of any military war between Israel and either
>> Egypt or Jordan. They were confident that peace
>> and growing prosperity through trade and investment
>> meant no major conflict.
>>
>> (Of course, that does not deny that Iran could
>> throw a big wrench (or nuke) into the process. )
>>
>> One Palestinian salesman I talked to in Jerusalem
>> was positive that all the problems had to due
>> with political leaders that kept the conflict
>> alive just to keep themselves in power.
>>
>
> Of course Putin is doing to the Ukraine what the Zionists did to the
> Levant, and continuing to do to the west bank.
>
> I guess the Arabs are not as photogenic as the blond Caucasoid
> Ukrainians?

Dear Peter,
I greatly disagree with your comparison that giving
the Jews a homeland in 1948 (and also at same
time offering an equal state to the Palestinians)
that was decided by a big majority United Nations
vote, is in any way equivalent to Russia invading
Ukraine AGAIN, in 2022.

And also,, frankly, NO!, the Arabs are not as
photogenic. Prior to 1948 they repeatedly backed
the wrong side in trying to aid the Nazi's in
killing Jews. In 1948 they were offered what
I view, as a fair and reasonable compromise.
They refused it and thinking they were in a very
strong position chose murder and war. For 74
years they keep refusing to compromise, and keep
refusing to fairly bargain and negotiate.

They keep choosing violence and destruction rather
that to build for the future. In the Gaza strip
they repeatedly put building materials (Concrete
and metal) into attack tunnels and rockets to fire
at citizens, rather than hospitals and condos, and
hotels.

On Fri, 13 May 2022 08:15:32 -0700, a425couple
<a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/12/2022 5:59 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 09:46:29 -0700, a425couple
>> <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/19/2022 7:04 PM, Matthew wrote:
>>>>> The Gaza Strip's terrorist factions on Tuesday warned Israel against holding a Jewish nationalist rally around Jerusalem.
>>>>
>>>>> In a joint statement, the factions warned that their "finger is on the trigger" if the so-called March of the Flags goes through.
>>>>
>>>>> The last year's conflict between Gaza and Israel broke out after Jewish activists marched through Jerusalem's Old City in a similar rally in the climax of a tense period.
>>>> https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byhdpthec
>>>>
>>>>> "Responding to a domestic threat - not enough": The defense establishment estimates that Israeli Arabs will intervene in the fighting
>>>>
>>>>> Senior officials warn of more violent clashes than those that occurred during the Wall Guard, and warn: "This could lead to a kind of civil war"
>>>> https://www.israelhayom.co.il/news/defense/article/10139858
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am just a common person, and can not guarantee
>>> any future act.
>>> But I just spent 4 weeks in the Middle East
>>> (Egypt, Jordan & Israel) and talked to tour guides
>>> and venders, and service providers.
>>>
>>> They were all thinking that there was no chance
>>> of any military war between Israel and either
>>> Egypt or Jordan. They were confident that peace
>>> and growing prosperity through trade and investment
>>> meant no major conflict.
>>>
>>> (Of course, that does not deny that Iran could
>>> throw a big wrench (or nuke) into the process. )
>>>
>>> One Palestinian salesman I talked to in Jerusalem
>>> was positive that all the problems had to due
>>> with political leaders that kept the conflict
>>> alive just to keep themselves in power.
>>>
>>
>> Of course Putin is doing to the Ukraine what the Zionists did to the
>> Levant, and continuing to do to the west bank.
>>
>> I guess the Arabs are not as photogenic as the blond Caucasoid
>> Ukrainians?
>
>Dear Peter,
>I greatly disagree with your comparison that giving
>the Jews a homeland in 1948

Why do the Jews need a "homeland"? The vast majority of Jews in the
world choose not to live in Israel.
In Ottoman times the Levant was homeland to all sorts, including Jews.
The area was Arab, and now we see a re-run of the crusades where
religious fanatics and their cleric conservative hierarchies raising
hell! Of course they'll have to wade thru blood to keep it.

> (and also at same
>time offering an equal state to the Palestinians)
>that was decided by a big majority United Nations
>vote, is in any way equivalent to Russia invading
>Ukraine AGAIN, in 2022.
>
>And also,, frankly, NO!, the Arabs are not as
>photogenic. Prior to 1948 they repeatedly backed
>the wrong side in trying to aid the Nazi's in
>killing Jews. In 1948 they were offered what
>I view, as a fair and reasonable compromise.
>They refused it and thinking they were in a very
>strong position chose murder and war. For 74
>years they keep refusing to compromise, and keep
>refusing to fairly bargain and negotiate.
>
>They keep choosing violence and destruction rather
>that to build for the future. In the Gaza strip
>they repeatedly put building materials (Concrete
>and metal) into attack tunnels and rockets to fire
>at citizens, rather than hospitals and condos, and
>hotels.

On 13/05/2022 23:30, Peter Jason wrote:

> Why do the Jews need a "homeland"? The vast majority of Jews in the
> world choose not to live in Israel.
> In Ottoman times the Levant was homeland to all sorts, including Jews.
> The area was Arab, and now we see a re-run of the crusades where
> religious fanatics and their cleric conservative hierarchies raising
> hell! Of course they'll have to wade thru blood to keep it.
>

See Auschwitz, Holocaust, Nazi Germany, Vichy France etc. Pre 1939 there
were large jewish populations in France, Germany, Poland etc. by 1945
most were dead. A lucky few managed to get to the USA, UK and Palestine,
then a British Mandate. Ok and lets not forget the Iraqi Revolt of 1941
which was supported by German and Italy who were aiming to seize the
Iraqi oil fields for their own use.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080607110454/http://www.raf.mod.uk/history_old/opsrep.html

As a matter of fact clerical conservatives did pretty well throughout
history, see Albigensian Crusade (catholic) , European wars of religion
(16 million dead), Ottoman Empire, Muhammad Ahmad bin Abd Allah aka the
Mahdi see the 1880's Mahdist revolution. Lets not forget the Boxer
rebellion in China.

Jews in the USA, UK and British Empire felt pretty safe but continental
Europe was no longer viewed that way in 1945. A large number of German
jews ended up in the UK by 1945 and 10,000 served in the British Armed
forces during WW2. Grab a copy of Churchill's German Army by Helen Fry
some time. The most courageous were infiltrated into German territory
who provide excellent information.

A friend of mine at school was the son of one who settled in Britain in
1937. His father was a brilliant chemist who had worked on synthetic
aviation gasolinein Germany before declared untermenschen and fired. As
a result ICI hired him and his colleagues and was supplying 100 octane
Avgas to the RAF in 1940 when the best the Luftwaffe could get was 88
octane.

On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:30:28 +1000, Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote:

>
>Why do the Jews need a "homeland"? The vast majority of Jews in the
>world choose not to live in Israel.
>In Ottoman times the Levant was homeland to all sorts, including Jews.
>The area was Arab, and now we see a re-run of the crusades where
>religious fanatics and their cleric conservative hierarchies raising
>hell! Of course they'll have to wade thru blood to keep it.

According to Google 6.8m of 15.2m Jews live in Israel as opposed to
number of Jews in the world. Which is roughly 45% - meaning 55% live
elsewhere. Clearly a majority but not my idea of a 'vast majority'

Obviously the land of Palestine has been conquered countless times
over the last 3000 years and the present claimants are only two of
those - several others are extinct. Note that there has been large
scale immigration to that land in the last 100 years - during the WW1
era the combined population of Arabs and Jews was under 1/2 million.
The present population of Israel and the Palestinian territories is
far more than can be accounted for by natural increase on either side
and there's no question that both Jews and Arabs have flocked to the
region in the past century.

I agree with the previous poster who said that the Palestinian Arabs
lost MOST of their sympathy in the west over their strong support for
the Nazis and favoring of genocide. If you doubt my claim of "strong
supportl for the Nazis" look at the speeches of the Grand Mufti of
Jerusalem who was the main Palestinian Arab leader in that part of the
world during the WW2 era.

I've read the transcripts of Hitler's after dinner talks and in
several cases he refers to the Grand Mufti and NOT in a way that
indicates he respected him notwithstanding his strong support for
Hitler.

As for refugees those were in 1948 - NO OTHER REFUGEE GROUP IN THE
WORLD CLAIMS A MULTI-GENERATIONAL RIGHT TO REFUGEE STATUS.

In 1948 there were nearly 10 million "displaced persons" in Europe
with the majority of them being from areas whose sovereignity had
changed hands in 1945-46. Nearly 2 million German women were raped by
Russian soldiers and 7 million Germans forced to become refugees. Do
you see ongoing acts of violence by Germans against Russia today? Even
when the Russians are at it again in Ukraine?

In most cases refugee status doesn't even last a decade. More than 1
million Rwandans were displaced during the early 1990s - hear any talk
of them these days? Clearly the Palestinians should have finished
resettling by now - my forebears left Germany under similar
circumstances and made a good life first in America and now Canada.

While I'm sympathetic to the Palestinian Arabs groups like Hamas (who
largely control Gaza) have forfeited any claim on my sympathy with
their ongoing military and terrorist attacks rather than improving the
lives of their people.

If it weren't for Saudi, Iranian and Iraqi support they'd have had to
fold long ago. Roughly 21% of the Israeli population is Arab and you
don't see serious numbers of terrorist acts by this group in Israel
today (or really any time during the past 50 years).

Hamas would disappear overnight if they lost the support of rogue
states like Iran - they now exist solely to 'stir the pot' in the
Middle East. The main reason the Saudis still aid them is that they
know Hamas is a violent group and they prefer to have their violence
turned against anybody besides themselves.

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:43:30 PM UTC+1, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 08:30:28 +1000, Peter Jason <p...@jostle.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Why do the Jews need a "homeland"? The vast majority of Jews in the
> >world choose not to live in Israel.
> >In Ottoman times the Levant was homeland to all sorts, including Jews.
> >The area was Arab, and now we see a re-run of the crusades where
> >religious fanatics and their cleric conservative hierarchies raising
> >hell! Of course they'll have to wade thru blood to keep it.
> According to Google 6.8m of 15.2m Jews live in Israel as opposed to
> number of Jews in the world. Which is roughly 45% - meaning 55% live
> elsewhere. Clearly a majority but not my idea of a 'vast majority'
>
> Obviously the land of Palestine has been conquered countless times
> over the last 3000 years and the present claimants are only two of
> those - several others are extinct. Note that there has been large
> scale immigration to that land in the last 100 years - during the WW1
> era the combined population of Arabs and Jews was under 1/2 million.
> The present population of Israel and the Palestinian territories is
> far more than can be accounted for by natural increase on either side
> and there's no question that both Jews and Arabs have flocked to the
> region in the past century.
>
> I agree with the previous poster who said that the Palestinian Arabs
> lost MOST of their sympathy in the west over their strong support for
> the Nazis and favoring of genocide. If you doubt my claim of "strong
> supportl for the Nazis" look at the speeches of the Grand Mufti of
> Jerusalem who was the main Palestinian Arab leader in that part of the
> world during the WW2 era.
>
> I've read the transcripts of Hitler's after dinner talks and in
> several cases he refers to the Grand Mufti and NOT in a way that
> indicates he respected him notwithstanding his strong support for
> Hitler.
>
> As for refugees those were in 1948 - NO OTHER REFUGEE GROUP IN THE
> WORLD CLAIMS A MULTI-GENERATIONAL RIGHT TO REFUGEE STATUS.
>
> In 1948 there were nearly 10 million "displaced persons" in Europe
> with the majority of them being from areas whose sovereignity had
> changed hands in 1945-46. Nearly 2 million German women were raped by
> Russian soldiers and 7 million Germans forced to become refugees. Do
> you see ongoing acts of violence by Germans against Russia today? Even
> when the Russians are at it again in Ukraine?
>
> In most cases refugee status doesn't even last a decade. More than 1
> million Rwandans were displaced during the early 1990s - hear any talk
> of them these days? Clearly the Palestinians should have finished
> resettling by now - my forebears left Germany under similar
> circumstances and made a good life first in America and now Canada.
>
> While I'm sympathetic to the Palestinian Arabs groups like Hamas (who
> largely control Gaza) have forfeited any claim on my sympathy with
> their ongoing military and terrorist attacks rather than improving the
> lives of their people.
>
> If it weren't for Saudi, Iranian and Iraqi support they'd have had to
> fold long ago. Roughly 21% of the Israeli population is Arab and you
> don't see serious numbers of terrorist acts by this group in Israel
> today (or really any time during the past 50 years).
>
> Hamas would disappear overnight if they lost the support of rogue
> states like Iran - they now exist solely to 'stir the pot' in the
> Middle East. The main reason the Saudis still aid them is that they
> know Hamas is a violent group and they prefer to have their violence
> turned against anybody besides themselves.

The richer Arab (and Iranian etc.) supporters could so easily, by now, have provided their fellow Arabs in "Palestine" with a land of milk and honey.
They deliberately choose not to, to retain the running sore against the hated Israel.
Simples.